Zombie wizard

[Vessyra]

Say that Sir Evil Von Darkness the dread necromancer casts animate dead to create a zombie. Then, he gives the zombie a circlet of intelligence. (Nothing says that attunement is living-only). Now that the zombie has 19 intelligence, could the dread necromancer, theoretically, teach the zombie wizardry?
The rules only say that the zombie doesn't possess the abilities that they had in life, but they don't say anything about new skills. While zombies have to have detailed and careful instructions to learn how to do anything, I'm fairly certain that that's a byproduct of their intelligence 3. With an intelligence increased by 16 to a total of nineteen... could Sir Evil Von Darkness the dread necromancer create the first zombie wizard?

[JoeJ]

Are you the DM? Do you want a zombie wizard in your world? If you are and you do, then yes, it can happen.

[Gastronomie]

Are you the DM? Do you want a zombie wizard in your world? If you are and you do, then yes, it can happen.Pretty much this.

That said, if zombie wizards are okay, so are cat wizards, clay golem wizards, and so on. (Which could actually make a pretty interesting backstory for a NPC or something...)

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'd allow it. Hell, I actually wrote a homebrew arcane tradition (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/05/flesh-sculptor.html) that explicitly enables it back in May last year.

[Requilac]

Say that Sir Evil Von Darkness the dread necromancer casts animate dead to create a zombie. Then, he gives the zombie a circlet of intelligence. (Nothing says that attunement is living-only). Now that the zombie has 19 intelligence, could the dread necromancer, theoretically, teach the zombie wizardry?
The rules only say that the zombie doesn't possess the abilities that they had in life, but they don't say anything about new skills. While zombies have to have detailed and careful instructions to learn how to do anything, I'm fairly certain that that's a byproduct of their intelligence 3. With an intelligence increased by 16 to a total of nineteen... could Sir Evil Von Darkness the dread necromancer create the first zombie wizard?

I mean if the zombie is intelligent enough to have an alignment other than unaligned (it is chaotic evil), it clearly has to have some insightful of the world, so I would say this is possible. And even if it wasn't, it is not gamebreaking and it is really awesome so if a player want to do this and I were the DM I would allow it.


I'd allow it. Hell, I actually wrote a homebrew arcane tradition (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/05/flesh-sculptor.html) that explicitly enables it back in May last year.

Wow, this is actually a really cool subclass. My first reaction is that it seems a little weak, but considering that the meat of the wizard's strength comes from its spells it doesn't seem like much of an issue.

[Vessyra]

Wow, yeah, that is a cool subclass.

Also, yes, I am the DM. I had an idea for a death tyrant that gives its zombie minions circlets of intellect, rings of gentle repose and rings of mind shielding to create undying spies. (Who pretend to be crippled, to hide their shambling nature). When I started thinking about it, I wondered what effects a zombie with a circlet of intellect would have. So, I decided to start this thread to ask what everyone thinks of the idea of zombies learning wizardry

[Dr. Cliché]

That said, if zombie wizards are okay, so are cat wizards, clay golem wizards, and so on. (Which could actually make a pretty interesting backstory for a NPC or something...)

The idea of a housecat wizard amuses me greatly. :smallbiggrin:

[Requilac]

Pretty much this.

That said, if zombie wizards are okay, so are cat wizards, clay golem wizards, and so on. (Which could actually make a pretty interesting backstory for a NPC or something...)


The idea of a housecat wizard amuses me greatly. :smallbiggrin:

What do you mean there aren't cat wizards? I know that the charisma bonus incentivizes tabaxis to go for CHA casters, but at least one of them would have to have taken a level in wizard.




Also, yes, I am the DM. I had an idea for a death tyrant that gives its zombie minions circlets of intellect, rings of gentle repose and rings of mind shielding to create undying spies. (Who pretend to be crippled, to hide their shambling nature). When I started thinking about it, I wondered what effects a zombie with a circlet of intellect would have. So, I decided to start this thread to ask what everyone thinks of the idea of zombies learning wizardry

That's actually a really cool idea. Kind of ridiculous, but this is D&D and it frequently gets that way.

[Ninja_Prawn]

The idea of a housecat wizard amuses me greatly. :smallbiggrin:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/M7EQSsEXkGRvq/giphy.gif

[Dr. Cliché]

What do you mean there aren't cat wizards? I know that the charisma bonus incentivizes tabaxis to go for CHA casters, but at least one of them would have to have taken a level in wizard.

I did say housecat wizard. :smalltongue:



https://media2.giphy.com/media/M7EQSsEXkGRvq/giphy.gif

That was pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I saw 'cat wizard'. :smallbiggrin:

[PeteNutButter]

If looking for a much more boring and RAW answer... Monsters generally don't gain experience and don't gain class levels. If your party of 4 PCs is suddenly dividing all their experience 10 ways to account for your minions, they'd have good reason to be annoyed.

A DM could run into a cascade of creative problems if they started allowing this. Why doesn't every wizard teach his familiar to be a wizard? ..who then teaches its familiar to be wizard... etc. I once had a small army of awakened trees on my druid, and would have loved to teach them all druidry. All of these things could create spotlight and balance problems. What if the wizard had a minion that could then take rogue levels and completely upstage the party rogue?

On the other hand if its for pure narrative, it shouldn't cause too much trouble. I'd say given the deep history of most D&D worlds with high level wizards and all that it's either A) been done before, quite a bit or B) can't be done for some reason. Edit: or C) it is super taboo because teaching wizardry to the undead results in a pure evil thing knowing magic. Even liches can potentially remember living and caring for other humanoids. A zombie wizard... might go full skynet on you.

[Requilac]

If looking for a much more boring and RAW answer... Monsters generally don't gain experience and don't gain class levels. If your party of 4 PCs is suddenly dividing all their experience 10 ways to account for your minions, they'd have good reason to be annoyed.

A DM could run into a cascade of creative problems if they started allowing this. Why doesn't every wizard teach his familiar to be a wizard? ..who then teaches its familiar to be wizard... etc. I once had a small army of awakened trees on my druid, and would have loved to teach them all druidry.

On the other hand if its for pure narrative, it shouldn't cause too much trouble. I'd say given the deep history of most D&D worlds with high level wizards and all that it's either A) been done before, quite a bit or B) can't be done for some reason.

I was under the impression that the zombies were just wizards by name, not ones with actual class levels. And these zombies are not meant as DMNPCs to help the party, they are enemies, so I don't think XP division is a problem. And I think that the main reason why other enemies haven't done this is because it involves a Circlet of Intellect for each zombie, which I am willing to bet are not easy to obtain. A more efficient thing to do would just be to have wights or more intelligent undead, but this death tyrant may find it easier just to use zombies because that's what its negative energy cone creates.

[Dr. Cliché]

Incidentally, I think the bigger question here is: 'Is this really the best use Sir Evil Von Darkness can think of for a Circlet of Intellect?' :smallwink:

[ErHo]

Does a high Int automatically mean they have sentience or a personality?

If it awoken their old personality, then does that mean thier souls are now returned to their body?