[3.5] Great Thunderclap

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

I have a feeling I may have asked this question before, but here goes: I love the Great Thunderclap spell (SC p.107). 3rd level evocation spell that forces three saves: Will to avoid stuning, Reflex to avoid being knocked prone, and Fort to avoid being deafened. It also has SR: No; one of the the evocation spells to have this perk.

So, say I want to be a caster that optimizes this spell: I'm looking for a way to add damage, so I can stack on other rider effects (Fell Drain etc.).

What are some relatively painless ways to do this?

Cheers - T

[Ramza00]

What level of play is the target?

[Nifft]

Explosive Spell adds movement, and that movement could inflict damage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Explosive Spell (CA) is a +2 metamagic that ejects any creature that failed its reflex save to the nearest* outer edge of the spell's area, dealing 1d6 damage for every full 10 ft. traveled (and another 1d6 if they strike a solid barrier). Since it's a 20-ft. radius burst, you could position it to hurl creatures upward instead of outward, they'll take the same amount of damage and also take falling damage or strike the ceiling.


Use either Snowcasting or Energy Substitution: Cold to give it the cold subtype. With Snowcasting you can get a Wand of Summon Component (CM) to get a handful of snow as a swift action. With Energy Substitution it further benefits Arcane Thesis, but excludes Born of the Three Thunders. With the cold subtype you can add Flash Frost Spell (PH2), a +1 metamagic that adds 2 cold damage per level of the spell (counting Heighten Spell) and covers the spell's area in ice for one round, forcing balance checks to move through it.

With Snowcasting + Flash Frost Spell, you can add Born of the Three Thunders (CA), which changes its damage to half sonic and half electric, and makes it conclude with another thunderclap that forces damaged creatures to save vs stun and save vs knocked prone again. You'll want to be immune to the Dazed condition (or take Quick Recovery in LoM) if using this feat.


Since you want to add Fell Drain/Frighten/Weaken/etc. I'd recommend the following:
Energy Substitution: Cold (+0 metamagic)
Flash Frost Spell (+1 metamagic)
Twin Spell (+4 metamagic)
Fell Drain (+2 metamagic)
Fell Frighten (+2 metamagic)
Practical Metamagic x3: Twin, Fell Drain, Fell Frighten (-3 metamagic cost, not a metamagic feat)
Any +0 metamagic feat (Invisible Spell) or any standard metamagic rod (Sculpting in CA, Silent, etc.)
Arcane Thesis

Nine feats total.

That allows you to cast the spell from a 3rd level slot at +2 caster level with all of those things applied. The spell occurs twice, each one deals 6 Cold damage, anyone damaged suffers one negative level per spell (two total, -2 to saves), is Shaken and then escalated to Frightened (-2 to saves, must flee), and must save vs stun, prone, and deafened each twice with those penalties applied.

[Thurbane]

What level of play is the target?

TBC, probably around ECL 9-11 or so.



Explosive Spell adds movement, and that movement could inflict damage.

Explosive Spell (CA) is a +2 metamagic that ejects any creature that failed its reflex save to the nearest* outer edge of the spell's area, dealing 1d6 damage for every full 10 ft. traveled (and another 1d6 if they strike a solid barrier). Since it's a 20-ft. radius burst, you could position it to hurl creatures upward instead of outward, they'll take the same amount of damage and also take falling damage or strike the ceiling.


Use either Snowcasting or Energy Substitution: Cold to give it the cold subtype. With Snowcasting you can get a Wand of Summon Component (CM) to get a handful of snow as a swift action. With Energy Substitution it further benefits Arcane Thesis, but excludes Born of the Three Thunders. With the cold subtype you can add Flash Frost Spell (PH2), a +1 metamagic that adds 2 cold damage per level of the spell (counting Heighten Spell) and covers the spell's area in ice for one round, forcing balance checks to move through it.

With Snowcasting + Flash Frost Spell, you can add Born of the Three Thunders (CA), which changes its damage to half sonic and half electric, and makes it conclude with another thunderclap that forces damaged creatures to save vs stun and save vs knocked prone again. You'll want to be immune to the Dazed condition (or take Quick Recovery in LoM) if using this feat.


Since you want to add Fell Drain/Frighten/Weaken/etc. I'd recommend the following:
Energy Substitution: Cold (+0 metamagic)
Flash Frost Spell (+1 metamagic)
Twin Spell (+4 metamagic)
Fell Drain (+2 metamagic)
Fell Frighten (+2 metamagic)
Practical Metamagic x3: Twin, Fell Drain, Fell Frighten (-3 metamagic cost, not a metamagic feat)
Any +0 metamagic feat (Invisible Spell) or any standard metamagic rod (Sculpting in CA, Silent, etc.)
Arcane Thesis

Nine feats total.

That allows you to cast the spell from a 3rd level slot at +2 caster level with all of those things applied. The spell occurs twice, each one deals 6 Cold damage, anyone damaged suffers one negative level per spell (two total, -2 to saves), is Shaken and then escalated to Frightened (-2 to saves, must flee), and must save vs stun, prone, and deafened each twice with those penalties applied.

Perfect, thank you!

[Nifft]

Flash Frost adds "an extra 2 points" of damage per spell level.

Since it's extra damage, I'm not sure you can apply it to an effect that has no base damage.

[Thurbane]

A Spellscale character using either the Bahamut or Tiamat blood-quickening meditation can add 2d6 damage to a single target of a spell, 3/day (assuming the target is of the relevant alignment).

Would that could towards triggering effects like Fell Drain etc?

I also looked at Hellcat Gauntlets in the MIC, but they only work with single target spells. :smallfrown:


Flash Frost adds "an extra 2 points" of damage per spell level.

Since it's extra damage, I'm not sure you can apply it to an effect that has no base damage.

Interesting - well worth looking into.

[Nifft]

A Spellscale character using either the Bahamut or Tiamat blood-quickening meditation can add 2d6 damage to a single target of a spell, 3/day (assuming the target is of the relevant alignment).

Would that could towards triggering effects like Fell Drain etc?

I think yes, but obviously it's not relevant to this spell since this spell is area rather than target.

[Thurbane]

I think yes, but obviously it's not relevant to this spell since this spell is area rather than target.

Unlike Hellcat Gauntlets, it doesn't specify that it must be a single target spell; by my reading, it will affect one target in an area spell: less than ideal though, since rider effects would only affect that one target.

[Nifft]

Unlike Hellcat Gauntlets, it doesn't specify that it must be a single target spell; by my reading, it will affect one target in an area spell: less than ideal though, since rider effects would only affect that one target.

Oh, good point. I'd skimmed and missed that -- the gauntlets are indeed different from the Blood Quickening meditation.

I guess the remaining hurdles are: when you're allowed to activate it (i.e. after targeting, but before applying some of the metamagics), and if 2d6 to one target from a non-spell effect is sufficient to allow a metamagic which demands a damaging spell.