How would one price monster knowledge books?

[unseenmage]

How would one price mundane books that have a bonus to Knowledge of exactly enough to identify a specific monster and its superpowers?

[Telonius]

Probably pretty expensive. I'd most likely have to use the magic item guidelines, because anything mundane would just be eyeballing it. It would help a skill check, so bonus squared times 100 gp. Charged (one charge available), so that divided by 2, divided by 50. Bonus squared times 100/100, so just bonus squared.

To get the bonus you'd need, take the 10+ the HD of the creature in question, and add 5* the number of "useful pieces of information" there are about the creature beyond 1.

For your classic Dire Rat, that's 10+1(hd, incl. Filth Fever information) = 11. 11*11=121gp for a masters' treatise on everything there is to know about Dire Rats.

For something a little more exotic, a Phasm. 10+15(hd, incl Alternate form)+ 5*3(Amorphous, Resilience, Tremorsense) = 25+15=40. 40*40=1600gp.

[Fizban]

I wouldn't, because that's not how books work, but that's a long-standing thing that's bugged me.

You can hire a sage to roll a knowledge check for some amount of gp. A "book" containing that knowledge and that knowledge only would be more of a pamphlet or flyer, and would cost as much as it took the seller to pay sages until you got the info, plus writing it down, plus whatever the seller thinks they can get for it.

By the DMG2 specialist prices and assuming a +5 competence item exists for knowledge skills (which is usually a "book," ugh) paying someone for the check costs up to 2,000gp and change for a +40 or so bonus. But what knowledge that actually gets you depends on what the DM actually gives out for knowledge checks, which can range from jack squat to literally opening the MM on a barely succeeded check, with later monster manuals giving more specific results that are usually half garbage. If you have certain knowledge gated behind particularly high DCs, the cost of paying new people until someone makes the check could be quite expensive. Or the whole exercise could be quite cheap if you allow the bonkers skill bonus spells.

[Bullet06320]

masterwork tools give a +2 circumstance bonus to skill checks
so at least 50gp for a mundane item
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork

although, historically, preprinting press books are rare and expensive, but usually high quality, well illustrated by hand, so cost may go up for rarity

[Kelb_Panthera]

Probably pretty expensive. I'd most likely have to use the magic item guidelines, because anything mundane would just be eyeballing it. It would help a skill check, so bonus squared times 100 gp. Charged (one charge available), so that divided by 2, divided by 50. Bonus squared times 100/100, so just bonus squared.

To get the bonus you'd need, take the 10+ the HD of the creature in question, and add 5* the number of "useful pieces of information" there are about the creature beyond 1.

For your classic Dire Rat, that's 10+1(hd, incl. Filth Fever information) = 11. 11*11=121gp for a masters' treatise on everything there is to know about Dire Rats.

For something a little more exotic, a Phasm. 10+15(hd, incl Alternate form)+ 5*3(Amorphous, Resilience, Tremorsense) = 25+15=40. 40*40=1600gp.

This looks to me like a solid solution to your question. I'd go with this. Maybe ad-hoc a 50% discount since it's such a remarkably specific use rather than a general boost to the knowledge skill.

[Troacctid]

Honestly I'd just price it as a masterwork tool. One masterwork book gives a +2 circumstance bonus to Knowledge checks relating to material contained within said book, if you consult the book when making the check. The Monster Manual: Premium Edition is highly coveted among adventurers.

[haplot]

Isnt there a item in the MiC which gives +5 to a knowledge skill 3/day?

I think its price is 1,500gp

[Nifft]

masterwork tools give a +2 circumstance bonus to skill checks
so at least 50gp for a mundane item
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#toolMasterwork

although, historically, preprinting press books are rare and expensive, but usually high quality, well illustrated by hand, so cost may go up for rarity


Honestly I'd just price it as a masterwork tool. One masterwork book gives a +2 circumstance bonus to Knowledge checks relating to material contained within said book, if you consult the book when making the check. The Monster Manual: Premium Edition is highly coveted among adventurers.

I like this Masterwork Tool idea, but how would it work in practice, if you need to use the tool during a check that takes no action and happens reflexively?

Are you assumed to just happen to have the book in your hand at all times, and it falls open to an illustration of whatever critter you're looking at?

[zlefin]

I'm not sure the existing rules handle this kind of case well. I'd probably homebrew some rules on how a monster knowledge book would work.

it'd also depend what EXACTLY you want the book to do mechanically.

[Troacctid]

I like this Masterwork Tool idea, but how would it work in practice, if you need to use the tool during a check that takes no action and happens reflexively?

Are you assumed to just happen to have the book in your hand at all times, and it falls open to an illustration of whatever critter you're looking at?
If you can't reference the book (open and flip through it when you make the check), you don't get the bonus. Good use for Autohypnosis.

[Quertus]

How would one price mundane books that have a bonus to Knowledge of exactly enough to identify a specific monster and its superpowers?

Well, according to prices set by Quertus, my signature academia mage for whom this account is named, the answer is "shrug - how much does it cost to produce?" Even my verbose academia mage can sum up the relevant information he knows about most creatures in a single page of text, front and back - probably even with illustrations.

So, the price of a single scrap of paper / papyrus, plus the cost of hiring a scribe for 10 minutes?

[Nifft]

If you can't reference the book (open and flip through it when you make the check), you don't get the bonus. I'm trying to reconcile looking through a book with a Knowledge check that resolves as a non-action:


Action

Usually none. In most cases, making a Knowledge check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t.
It seems like the Knowledge check would resolve before you could do much page-flipping.



Good use for Autohypnosis. This would work, but you might not need to buy any Masterwork Tool books, since you could just use Autohypnosis to memorize books in a library.

[Troacctid]

I'm trying to reconcile looking through a book with a Knowledge check that resolves as a non-action:

It seems like the Knowledge check would resolve before you could do much page-flipping.
"In most cases"


This would work, but you might not need to buy any Masterwork Tool books, since you could just use Autohypnosis to memorize books in a library.
I would still consider that to count towards your wealth.

[daremetoidareyo]

If you can't reference the book (open and flip through it when you make the check), you don't get the bonus. Good use for Autohypnosis.

Just require the book to be read for an hour within the last 24 hours in order to get the bonus. I would also let it stack with other book based circumstance bonuses if it is that specific

[Nifft]

"In most cases"

I think you're suggesting that a longer action might be expended in trade for either a re-roll or a bonus, or both.

That's not a bad idea -- though it's not a trade-off I'd make often.

"Let me check my notes!"

[zlefin]

are there expanded rules for monster identification somewhere?
cuz it seems like an area with a lot of room for some more complex rules that could prove useful in practice (sometimes at least, for those groups that want to use them).

[Fizban]

I am aware of various attempts at "research" rules, but no precise monster identification rules from any 1st or 3rd party 3.x stuff I've read.

It's not hard to come up with basic frameworks, but the availability of monster knowledge is a very subjective issue: one person's must-have information is another's unimportant trivia is another's duh everybody knows that is another's no players should never know that. The rules you'd want to use vary by setting and even monster, and have to include the ability for the player to ask for the information they want, while also allowing the DM to interject with things they need to know, and leaving room for the DM to censor things if there are things the PCs/body of in-game knowledge have no way of knowing.

The 1st party books did eventually start pre-defining what players could get from a knowledge check, but like I said above, half of it was often garbage while the other half would just give away answers to questions the PCs have no way of knowing to ask.