How to Deal With an Awkward Character Concept

[Rerem115]

Am I wrong for telling a player that they probably shouldn't play a Lawful Good Drow Necromancer? I am utterly stumped as to how their backstory would work and how I could reasonably insert this into a standard campaign, and have told my player as such. I still feel bad for saying no, but still think I was justified in doing so.

*EDIT* To get an idea of the player, they suggested that after I said that no, they couldn't play as a lich.

[Lunali]

There's nothing wrong with the character concept if they actually develop it and want to play it. For the backstory, make the player figure it out to some extent at least.

However, it seems more likely that they don't actually want to play the character and just want to be problematic.

[PhantomSoul]

I'd ask for details... but I'd say Lunali summarised my reaction in a much more audience-friendly way. (Ok, it wasn't explicit, but the raucous laughing and subsequent "nope" at the edit probably counts as rude...)

[Rerem115]

The dude's got an obsession with playing Drow and flirting with everything with tits (ic and ooc). He's our resident edgelord weaboo extraordinaire, and he's serious about playing a tortured, troubled, chronically depressed but oh-so noble special snowflake of a character. He's got the cajones to try it, but not the skill to back it up. I'm gently nudging things along, trying to make light of it, but would accept advice readily.

[Lunali]

If you're actually considering letting him play it, start by having him try making the character, complete with traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws to see if you want to approve it. If he's going to be LG he should know what code of conduct he feels bound to and what ways he helps people out to his own detriment.

[2D8HP]

One PC in the party like that?

No :annoyed:

All the PC's like that?

Yes! Yes! YES!!! :amused:

There has to be at least one half-aasimar, half-tiefling with eyes of different colors!

Maybe not the tone you intended, but a party of successively more "edgy" PC's would be AWESOME!

Have each player top the other in over-the-top angst until this guy cries real tears from THE RAGING INNER TURMOIL WITHIN!!!

NO TOP LIKE OVER THE TOP!

Maybe this will help:

I need a QUALITY player-character named:

Mournblade Stormwind
(or Darkfire Steelheart, or Dagger Coldedge, Grim McAngsty, Steeldark Darksteel, or whatever)

Fortunately PC creation may be systemized:

Name:

Edgy name generator! Roll 3d20!



d20
First name
Last name (1st half)
Last name (2nd half)


1
Agony
Beast
Arrow


2
Dagger
Black
Blade


3
Ghost
Blood
Blood


4
Ghoul
Cold
Bone


5
Gloom
Dark
Crow


6
Misery
Despair
Dark


7
Mist
Doom
Demon


8
Moon
Ever
Death


9
Pain
Fright
Eye


10
Raven
Fury
Flame


11
[Refuses to state first name]
Grim
Heart


12
Shadow
Hate
Ice


13
Shudder
Never
Mark


14
Spider
Pain
Martyr


15
Talon
Poison
Scar


16
Twilight
Razor
Shackle


17
Venom
Steel
Skin


18
Wander
Storm
Skull


19
Whisper
True
Snow


20
Wolf
Vengeance
Sword



A few try-outs:

Talon Despairmartyr
Dagger Razorflame
Twilight Poisonice
Venom Darkcrow
Misery Whisperdeath

Working as intended, it seems.


Class, Race, and Tragic Events:

Well, here is an edgy character generator I made for 5th edition D&D. Use with the name generator. Enjoy!



1d6
Race


1
Human


2
Half-orc


3
Drow


4
Half-drow


5
Tiefling


6
Ghostwise Halfling






1d10
Class


1
Fiend Warlock


2
Shadow Sorcerer


3
Assassin Rogue


4
Undying Warlock


5
Death Cleric


6
War Cleric


7
Berserker Barbarian


8
Hunter Ranger


9
Vengance Paladin


10
Shadow Monk






1d8
Backstory p1
1d8
Backstory p2


1
I was abused by
1
Family member(s).


2
I hate
2
Dragon(s).


3
My family was killed by
3
Orc(s).


4
I am a transformed
4
Demon(s).


5
I am in love with a
5
Devil(s).


6
I killed a
6
Drow


7
I have the soul of a
7
Ghost(s).


8
I work for
8
Assassin(s).




Alignment:

I'll add some stuff to the class table.

Alignments that are edgy? I would say CG, CN, TN, LN, LE, NE. Gives us a nice 6 alignments.


1d6
Alignment


1
Chaotic good, Probably racist.


2
Chaotic neutral, 'classic' edgy character.


3
True neutral. Pragmatic to the core.


4
Lawful neutral. Probably serves an evil higher power.


5
Lawful evil. Lives by her own code.


6
Neutral evil. Like chaotic good, but probably racist towards more people.



Edit: The characters that are being ended up with are awesome. My tables do have a lot of bugs (killing an orc isn't much), but with the working for your family, what if your family is evil?


Fashion accessories:
(Sadly requires some actual creativity, but fortunately not much)

Grimblade Mourncloud rued birth into this world of pain and especially wearing spiked bracelets and skull epaulets to the mall that matched those adorning Darkfire Stormwind who's tragic deal and awesomicity had no match. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
Verily if Darkfire Stormwind had any tears left to shed, surely they would turn to steam upon release due to the bitter fires that rage inside one such as Darkfire Stormwind! Just a gaze from Darkfire Stormwind steel colored eyes (which were set off well by the spiked bracelets, and skull epaulets) was enough to turn one such as Grimblade Mourncloud into a mere tepid stain at the mall!
Darkfire Stormwind tragic deal and awesomicity were such that Darkfire Stormwind only spoke of Darkfire Stormwind in the third person. Darkfire Stormwind just liked to say Darkfire Stormwind!


This personality is good for any campaign!

Well, hold on, I think we're missing one of the most important parts of the proper edgelord here.

He's got to be misunderstood! His misanthropic nature is simply the outward manifestation of a deep-seated insecurity, resulting from the internalization of the notion that he is apart from others and always will be, that he somehow stands alone, and that no one will ever truly understand the incredible, titanic struggle within himself, nor will he ever truly be able to relate this to another person, no matter how close they become.

Darkedge Shadowblade's behavior and affectations are, in large part, due to this deep-seated need for understanding and acceptance. And yet, as a half-tiefling, half-aasimar assassin, given incredible gifts in the art of death that, in truth, are more of a burden than a boon, who can truly claim to understand or know him? Of course, he does what he must do to survive, and so he will tell himself, as his black-edged knife cuts the throat of one more unsuspecting nobleman, fatted on the wealth of the nation that he's enslaved with his unjust regime; but there will always be that shadow of self-doubt. The kind that can usually only be expressed during brooding internal monologues while Darkedge Shadowblade crouches, hunched and ready to leap at a moment's notice, on the silent gargoyles of the largest church in the city -- itself an impossibly large symbol of greed and lust for power given form in unfeeling stone -- as the rain pours down his hooded and implacable face.

You gotta' have the rain. That makes the whole scene.


:eek:

It's all 'bout packing in angst and tragedy, what do you have?

Happy Halloween!


As an alternative the other PC's can be ponies or EWOKS!

[GreyBlack]

Soo.... to be clear, you absolutely can play a LG necromancer. I would say that I have a couple ways that it can be played, and wouldn't mind if a player wanted to do this.

However.... I can understand how these things might get grating. I would say that you use a 3 strike rule for alignment; before you start play, sit down and figure out what is meant but LG and come to an agreement. From there, implement a 3 strike rule of sorts. Warn him if you believe that he is not acting in alignment; if he can come up with a good rationale for how the action is LG, then fine. If you don't buy it, just say that you don't buy it, but be can doit. Too many times without a good rationale, though, and change his alignment by 1 step, either towards evil or chaotic. If he protests, tell him that he has broken his code of conduct too many times and that your decision is final.

Also, above all, tell him that you'll be doing this before he starts play. This way, he won't be surprised if you tell him to change his alignment.

The alignment change means nothing except that his alignment changes; no XP penalties or anything. It should be enough to make him actually think about his character build.

Edit: I mean, I would make sure all of your players know this, but just make sure this player is aware because of the sensitivity of the character concept.

[pdegan2814]

The dude's got an obsession with playing Drow and flirting with everything with tits (ic and ooc). He's our resident edgelord weaboo extraordinaire, and he's serious about playing a tortured, troubled, chronically depressed but oh-so noble special snowflake of a character. He's got the cajones to try it, but not the skill to back it up. I'm gently nudging things along, trying to make light of it, but would accept advice readily.

Personally, I HATE Drow as a playable race. Mechanically they're a pain in the neck because of the sunlight sensitivity, and storywise the players who choose them always seem to want to create these tortured precious snowflakes.

I would definitely ask him to write out some backstory explaining how the character got set on this path, and make sure it's more than just him being as you put it, "edgelord weaboo extraordinaire". And I would also make sure the rest of the party is okay with it. But at the end of the day if you're just not comfortable with it, tell him that and ask that he try to come up with something a little less extreme. Has he played D&D with your group before? If so, how did it work out the last time?

Him wanting to play a lich had me rolling my eyes, he sounds like the kind of guy who should ditch D&D and stick to Vampire: The Masquerade.

[ad_hoc]

Am I wrong for telling a player that they probably shouldn't play a Lawful Good Drow Necromancer? I am utterly stumped as to how their backstory would work and how I could reasonably insert this into a standard campaign, and have told my player as such. I still feel bad for saying no, but still think I was justified in doing so.

*EDIT* To get an idea of the player, they suggested that after I said that no, they couldn't play as a lich.

Not at all.

It's a group story. The group has genre expectations. This goes against them. It's also a story with no central protagonist. Players should be creating characters for an ensemble, not to be the special protagonist.

[Crusher]

One PC in the party like that?

No :annoyed:

All the PC's like that?

Yes! Yes! YES!!! :amused:

There has to be at least one half-aasimar, half-tiefling with eyes of different colors!

Maybe not the tone you intended, but a party of successively more "edgy" PC's would be AWESOME!

Have each player top the other in over-the-top angst until this guy cries real tears from THE RAGING INNER TURMOIL WITHIN!!!

NO TOP LIKE OVER THE TOP!

Maybe this will help:



As an alternative the other PC's can be ponies or EWOKS!

This is truly magnificent. Truly. I know how I'm going to create a couple really annoying NPCs for a campaign I've just started DMing.

[Kadesh]

Not at all.

It's a group story. The group has genre expectations. This goes against them. It's also a story with no central protagonist. Players should be creating characters for an ensemble, not to be the special protagonist.

Then you have your answer :). 'No, sorry, that concept isn't viable for this game, please come up with another'

[Sorlock Master]

Drow raised by Wizards and generally good people.

Become Lawful Good but still has that dark bent in him so studies Necromancey.

Realizes he could have skellys in every house doing menial tasks like cleaning, washing clothes and things of that nature.

[Contrast]

What exactly do you object to? Because it doesn't play to stereotype? Do you also ban barbarians who can read?

It honestly sounds more like you have a problem with the player which is going to manifest no matter what he's playing. I don't think that banning character concepts is going to be better than talking to the player and being clear about what your expectations are for the campaign.

[Rerem115]

I suppose deferring the problem for now can help ease tensions. I'll help him make his character, smooth out some bumps in the road and write a backstory that makes sense, but it's going to be a back-up, so he has to use a different one for the time being.

It'll give me time to maybe flesh out my worldbuilding and try to integrate the concept into the plot a little better.

And hey, the poor guy will get a chance to learn how Roll20 works and how to properly fill out a character sheet. Who knows, he may even see the light and try to build something a bit more standard; I'm agnostic enough to believe in miracles.

[Rerem115]

What exactly do you object to? Because it doesn't play to stereotype? Do you also ban barbarians who can read?

It honestly sounds more like you have a problem with the player which is going to manifest no matter what he's playing. I don't know that banning character concepts is going to be better than talking to the player and being clear about what your expectations are for the campaign.

I object to the concept of Drow on principle; they're awkward to play realistically between the mechanical disadvantages and being a card carrying Always Chaotic Evil race. As a DM, it's significantly more effort to adequately come up with how people react to what they consider an enemy in their midst without overly screwing over the player.

I object to minionmancy on the basis of balance and saving time. I am generally against necromancy in a classically heroic campaign.

Honestly though, you're probably right. He's a buddy of mine, and while this my first time with him at the table, I saw this coming a mile away. I'll do what I can to explain what my parameters are. I was already going to tell him to cut down on trying to pick up girls in-game. I don't particularly want to describe how his big-breasted elf chick gets it on with whatever female humanoids show up at a rural bar. Don't get me wrong, I like me a good ERP, but we're not into each other that way, and more importantly, we would be taking up everyone else's rather limited time, and at least for now, I'm not running that kind of campaign.

TL;DR, it gets awkward and messy, just like in real life. Even if it goes over well, I'm not sure that's a direction I want to take things.

Uff da. Yeah, I'll talk to him.

[Randomthom]

One PC in the party like that?

No :annoyed:

All the PC's like that?

Yes! Yes! YES!!! :amused:

There has to be at least one half-aasimar, half-tiefling with eyes of different colors!

Maybe not the tone you intended, but a party of successively more "edgy" PC's would be AWESOME!

Have each player top the other in over-the-top angst until this guy cries real tears from THE RAGING INNER TURMOIL WITHIN!!!

NO TOP LIKE OVER THE TOP!


I saw that movie, it was called Suicide Squad and it sucked! :P

To the OP: I've had the "edgy" PC guy in my group before. All I've done is challenge to them to write a (short) backstory that makes the character plausible. If they can do that and no game rules are broken then I'm ok with it.

If nothing else, it makes them think about the RP side of the game.

[Unoriginal]

I have to point out the books specifically says only evil people use Aninate Dead regularly (using it is just "not good").

Turn out good guys don't enslave evil spirits that will try to slaughter everyone and everything due to their single-minded omnicidal desire.

So no, lawful good necromancers don't roam around with hordes of undead mooks.

To answer your question: there is no problem with saying "no" to a character concept. However, be aware that no amount of DMing will fix an OOC problem, so you should probably talk with this person and address the issues they're causing.

[GreyBlack]

I object to the concept of Drow on principle; they're awkward to play realistically between the mechanical disadvantages and being a card carrying Always Chaotic Evil race. As a DM, it's significantly more effort to adequately come up with how people react to what they consider an enemy in their midst without overly screwing over the player.

I object to minionmancy on the basis of balance and saving time. I am generally against necromancy in a classically heroic campaign.

Honestly though, you're probably right. He's a buddy of mine, and while this my first time with him at the table, I saw this coming a mile away. I'll do what I can to explain what my parameters are. I was already going to tell him to cut down on trying to pick up girls in-game. I don't particularly want to describe how his big-breasted elf chick gets it on with whatever female humanoids show up at a rural bar. Don't get me wrong, I like me a good ERP, but we're not into each other that way, and more importantly, we would be taking up everyone else's rather limited time, and at least for now, I'm not running that kind of campaign.

TL;DR, it gets awkward and messy, just like in real life. Even if it goes over well, I'm not sure that's a direction I want to take things.

Uff da. Yeah, I'll talk to him.

Just a fun fact of the day on minionmancy: with regards to Animate Dead, they only attack on a bonus action. So that does kill action economy quite a bit for most players.

[Talionis]

I think in the Eberon books some of the Elves are weird good Necromancers... so Id say he comes from a small tribe that practices good necromancy...

[2D8HP]

I think in the Eberon books some of the Elves are weird good Necromancers... so Id say he comes from a small tribe that practices good necromancy...


Keith Bakers Eberron?


;:( (shakes fist) Damn you, Keith Baker


Who? Keith Baker: creative genius, winner of the WoTC setting search?

I'm sure The Giant wouldn't mind being mistaken for him at all...

I'm sure he is over it by now. ;)


twitch


twitch


BAKERRRRRRRR!

[JackPhoenix]

I think in the Eberon books some of the Elves are weird good Necromancers... so Id say he comes from a small tribe that practices good necromancy...

Aerenal elves a) aren't drow, b) don't practice "normal" necromancy c) hate necromancers and undead d) don't live in tribes.

The OP also never said he plays in Eberron, so stuff that's setting-specific there doesn't apply anywhere else.

[2D8HP]

I saw that movie, it was called Suicide Squad and it sucked! :P...


I saw the trailer for Suicide Squad, "Ballroom Blitz" by Sweet played during it! :smile:

Mostly I was suggesting that the whole table try to out-edge Edgy McDrowNecroEdge because it would be hilarious!

Oh!

All Tiefling Warlocks asking "Who's the square?" when they speak of Edgy!

[Segev]

If you don't think his intended purpose is to be disruptive, then I suggest talking to the whole table about it. Make the group work out backstories together. And make sure he participates. I've been "that guy" before, and I've personally gotten quite good at writing backstories that are often quite neat in order to make them work with parties. But it takes an understanding that it's on YOU, the guy playing the weird character, to make it work with the party. Not on them to talk you into it or keep your character interested.

This is what he needs to understand, and one of the better ways to achieve that is to work on the characters of the whole party together, so he can see how his character will fit in, and adjust it to make it work if he wants.


Just a fun fact of the day on minionmancy: with regards to Animate Dead, they only attack on a bonus action. So that does kill action economy quite a bit for most players.

It takes a bonus action to give them a command. But "Kill the intruders!" is a command that doesn't require re-issue every turn. The undead will then go and attack the intruders with the intent to kill until there are no more intruders. Or another bonus action is spent to give a different command.

[Personification]

[2D8HP's edgelord tables]

There is also this supplemental table:

The backstory table really needs a "by myself" point.

Also, unusual eye colour table:

1 - Dark Red
2 - Deep Violet
3 - Vibrant Green
4 - Pitch black, including sclera
5 - Golden Yellow
6 - Icy Blue
7 - Filmy white, because blind. Doesn't affect performance in any way
8 - Roll again, add catlike slit pupil

Wander Grimscar is a human war cleric with dark red eyes and catlike pupils. He is literally his own family members transformed into him. (Well, that sounds like a rather gruesome body horror scenario. I imagine the entire family was brutally torn apart by a monster and a powerful transformation mage created a new body from the remains to save the one family member still alive.)
And it turns out that fashion doesn't require any thinking from you either!

Don't forget the gloomy motif tables:

Color:

Dark Red
Black
White
Dark gray
Deep Purple
Roll twice and combine



Motif/design:

Wolf
Bear
Eagle
Dragon
Demon
Leaves
Stripes
Random gashes
Reroll, if 1-5 make it crying
Reroll, if 1-5 make snarling
Reroll, if wearing armor add spikes, if wearing a cloak or robe add frayed ribbony tassels to ends (like a Mistcloak)
Roll twice and combine


EDIT: leaf includes any plant motif, and the reason design 11 only includes armor and cloaks is because if you are wearing anything else you aren't edgy enough:smallbiggrin:

[2D8HP]

There is also this supplemental table:

And it turns out that fashion doesn't require any thinking from you either!


I have failed and feel deep shame in my failing and failure.

Such a fine example as:

Yea, but try it with the dead family member, eyes, and motif/color, then you get:

Pain Painskin the True Neutral Human Outlander Hunter Ranger who works for his family, had an identical twin brother who died, has deep violet eyes, and wears deep purple armor/a deep purple cloak with the helmet/hood (which he always wears up) fashioned like the head of a snarling bear. Plus, all of this introduction is happening while he is standing on a precarious rocky ledge during a thunderstorm, so you can only see him when lightning flashes. When you do see him, it is difficult to tell if the water on his face is just rain, or the brave tears of a tragic hero, and if the latter, is he truly a hero, or just a monster, lying to himself about his evil ways...

See, edgy
was neglected.

THE TORMENT!

[GreyBlack]

It takes a bonus action to give them a command. But "Kill the intruders!" is a command that doesn't require re-issue every turn. The undead will then go and attack the intruders with the intent to kill until there are no more intruders. Or another bonus action is spent to give a different command.

By RAW, I think you have to issue the command each turn, but it's completely possible I'm reading it wrong.

[Lunali]

By RAW, I think you have to issue the command each turn, but it's completely possible I'm reading it wrong.

You have to issue the command each turn if you give specific orders for the turn. If you give more general orders, they will follow them until completed.

[NinaWu]

Soo.... to be clear, you absolutely can play a LG necromancer. I would say that I have a couple ways that it can be played, and wouldn't mind if a player wanted to do this.

However.... I can understand how these things might get grating. I would say that you use a 3 strike rule for alignment; before you start play, sit down and figure out what is meant but LG and come to an agreement. From there, implement a 3 strike rule of sorts. Warn him if you believe that he is not acting in alignment; if he can come up with a good rationale for how the action is LG, then fine. If you don't buy it, just say that you don't buy it, but be can doit. Too many times without a good rationale, though, and change his alignment by 1 step, either towards evil or chaotic. If he protests, tell him that he has broken his code of conduct too many times and that your decision is final.

Also, above all, tell him that you'll be doing this before he starts play. This way, he won't be surprised if you tell him to change his alignment.

The alignment change means nothing except that his alignment changes; no XP penalties or anything. It should be enough to make him actually think about his character build.

Edit: I mean, I would make sure all of your players know this, but just make sure this player is aware because of the sensitivity of the character concept.

I'm all for this. I wouldn't bother with the 3 strikes but, i would also consider plenty of 'direct sunlight' activities

[GreyBlack]

I'm all for this. I wouldn't bother with the 3 strikes but, i would also consider plenty of 'direct sunlight' activities

So.... I would allow 3 strikes mostly because real people do occasionally act out of character. Alignment exists on a continuum. That said, acting out of alignment too many times will, inevitably, cause you to fall. Your mileage may vary though.

[Unoriginal]

I have failed and feel deep shame in my failing and failure.

Such a fine example as:

was neglected.

THE TORMENT!

All that deep purple...

"Smooooooke on the water, fire in the sky"


Alternatively:

"I am the terror that flap in the garden. I am to criminals what tomatoes are to vegetables. I am... the Eggplant!"

[Maelynn]

I have to point out the books specifically says only evil people use Aninate Dead regularly (using it is just "not good").

Which books exactly and what pages? Not to refute your opinion, but I haven't encountered mention of this and would like to check it for DM purposes.

[PhantomSoul]

Which books exactly and what pages? Not to refute your opinion, but I haven't encountered mention of this and would like to check it for DM purposes.

Page 203 of the PHB, where they describe the schools of magic:


Necromancy spells manipulate the energies of life and
death. Such spells can grant an extra reserve of life force,
drain the life energy from another creature, create the
undead, or even bring the dead back to life.
Creating the undead through the use of necromancy spells
such as animate dead is not a good act, and only evil casters
use such spells frequently.

Granted, Necromancers are a group are not necessarily evil (PHB 118), and it's not necessarily that using those spells frequently makes you evil, but that only evil people do use those spells frequently.

[Honest Tiefling]

I tend to be that guy (guess my favorite race!), so I think I have some insight in this. I would suggest that you DON'T write him a backstory, he won't adhere to it. Make him do it. He wants the crazy concept? He puts in the work to make it mesh with the story and setting. Getting the other players to have a chance to have feedback can be a good or a bad thing. If your players are...Let's just put it as 'excitable', it can come across as ganging up on him if not done right. If done right, you can have a very awesomely tight-knit group that lends itself well to stories. Only you can decide if you have the ability to corral your players into making it work without hurt feelings.

However, you seem to assume that this player will always be disruptive. You're going to be biased against him, and you have reason to believe that he's a jerk. Either way, TALK TO HIM. You have an OOC problem that will probably only intensify, and you might always assume he's up to something. But if you are right, you shouldn't subject yourself to it but he does deserve to know why you rather he didn't play.

Also, ask him what he thinks a drow is. I think the Salvatore books are old enough that youngins and people entering the hobby won't necessarily be mimicking them. There is a small chance that he is trying to rewrite the drow race as something different, especially if you aren't using an established campaign setting. It does seem like he's pretty new if he wanted to play a lich, so maybe he has some sort of strange campaign setting exploration itch he wants to get out. I don't think it is likely given your assumptions of him, but never hurts to ask.

[Rerem115]

I'm not really biased against him; I just know what to expect. He's got some serious self worth and identity issues, and is possibly on the autism spectrum. I'm reasonably certain there's a decent person in there, but dang does he hide well beneath layers of self-loathing, and it can be a little exasperating dealing with his quirks. I don't think he intends to be disruptive, but he gets, at least in my opinion, more than a little too much into the whole escapist fantasy part of D&D, and when combined with his general personality, has ruffled some feathers

To get an idea of this kind of thing in action, I was helping him put together his character sheet yesterday; he's a convert from some janky 3.Pathfinder 3rd party system and is still learning the nuances of 5e. We were a little strapped for time, since he told me he hadn't put together a character sheet yet, and it was about 10 minutes before we were going to start. I asked him to give me one word to describe his backstory, so I could give him one of the prefab ones to speed things along. His response? "Tragic". I asked for a bit more descriptive one, like give me three words. "Very very tragic". Entirely straight faced, too. Long story short, we eventually managed to finagle something out. I told him to give me his backstory in writing after the session was over, but haven't heard back from him yet.

As a group, we're slowly working things out, and it seems to be going well. Though, if any of you guys have had any experience with something like this, I'd love to hear how you guys managed to get things together. At least for me, a lot of the time a little outside perspective can be a big help.

[Lord8Ball]

Am I wrong for telling a player that they probably shouldn't play a Lawful Good Drow Necromancer? I am utterly stumped as to how their backstory would work and how I could reasonably insert this into a standard campaign, and have told my player as such. I still feel bad for saying no, but still, think I was justified in doing so.

*EDIT* To get an idea of the player, they suggested that after I said that no, they couldn't play as a lich.

Well, not all necromancers are evil. They may have goals such as using them to do farming or protect those they care about. Necromancy is the art of soul and lifeforce manipulation as such it doesn't only have to be used for creating undead. For instance, in many cultures necromancy, is used as a means to commune with the deceased or gain information from beyond the veil. Perhaps this character would be using such magics to lay spirits to rest or fulfill the dying wishes of a dead person. Maybe he is altruistic and takes this task on himself because it serves others. Maybe he does this for monetary compensation or possibly because he is a part of a religious order. To find all this out you'd have to talk to his character while he makes his backstory and perhaps pitch ideas that make sense to the setting. As for Drow, I do not know how you run them, but you can make it work somehow.
If he does raise a bunch of undead and yo find it a bit disruptive you could allow your character to tell some of his minions to obey other players orders. The reason for this is twofold. Your players won't have to sit bored while Mr necromancer commands his hoards and actually feel like they are taking part in the interim time. Secondly splitting command allows for a more versatile use of undead which is conducive to strategy and stops the boring undead swarming tactic.

[JoeJ]

Well, not all necromancers are evil. They may have goals such as using them to do farming or protect those they care about. Necromancy is the art of soul and lifeforce manipulation as such it doesn't only have to be used for creating undead. For instance, in many cultures necromancy, is used as a means to commune with the deceased or gain information from beyond the veil. Perhaps this character would be using such magics to lay spirits to rest or fulfill the dying wishes of a dead person. Maybe he is altruistic and takes this task on himself because it serves others. Maybe he does this for monetary compensation or possibly because he is a part of a religious order. To find all this out you'd have to talk to his character while he makes his backstory and perhaps pitch ideas that make sense to the setting. As for Drow, I do not know how you run them, but you can make it work somehow.
If he does raise a bunch of undead and yo find it a bit disruptive you could allow your character to tell some of his minions to obey other players orders. The reason for this is twofold. Your players won't have to sit bored while Mr necromancer commands his hoards and actually feel like they are taking part in the interim time. Secondly splitting command allows for a more versatile use of undead which is conducive to strategy and stops the boring undead swarming tactic.

It's true that necromancy is not inherently evil, but creating undead servants is inherently dangerous. I think the statement in the PHB assumes that most necromancers who do that frequently are not taking proper precautions to be absolutely sure their undead servants can never become uncontrolled and escape. They're recklessly endangering innocent people in order to further their own personal goals, and that is evil.

[Maelynn]

My first advice is to not sit down with a player struggling with their character when you are pressed for time. Especially when they're on the Autism spectrum, or when you suspect as much.

Ask him to come over on another day, when you're not having a session, and talk about what he would like and what you (don't) want in your campaign. You could ask him to prepare by jotting down a few ideas, some things he'd like about a character (powerful, either in melee or casting, good with people, skill monkey, able to protect others, etc). Maybe even get him to list 3 things that happened to his character in the past that he feels are defining. Important: you do the same, but don't tell him so. Use your own list for inspiration, should his be lacking.

Once you're at the table, see what he came up with (if anything) and where necessary, toss in some of your own ideas. See how he reacts to them. Just be a bit careful with them, so as not to make him feel like you're forcefeeding him your own ideas.

Ask direct questions about his character, such as "why did your character become a <class>? Was it your own choice, did someone expect you to?", "what does your character hope to achieve? Is it fame, or wealth, or the satisfaction of helping out others?", "where does your character come from? If not from around, why did you leave? Are your relatives even alive?". This might help him build a character with smaller bricks, one at a time, rather than having to build the entire wall at once.

If he comes up with some outlandish ideas that you don't want in your campaign, just straight up tell him so. If possible, tell him why you don't want it. This may help him understand what's acceptable and what isn't.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm not really biased against him; I just know what to expect. He's got some serious self worth and identity issues, and is possibly on the autism spectrum. I'm reasonably certain there's a decent person in there, but dang does he hide well beneath layers of self-loathing, and it can be a little exasperating dealing with his quirks. I don't think he intends to be disruptive, but he gets, at least in my opinion, more than a little too much into the whole escapist fantasy part of D&D, and when combined with his general personality, has ruffled some feathers.

This isn't convincing me you aren't biased...You might be biased for a VERY GOOD REASON, however. Remember, you are his friend, not his therapist. Speaking as someone with anxiety issues...Sometimes, a good kick in the pants is what people need. Letting him wreck the game and getting people upset isn't really going to help his self esteem in the long term.

That being said, I really must suggest again that you speak to him. He has a very particular set of desires (high fantasy escapist fun time) which...Aren't actually bad on their own. How is he to know that is inappropriate if you don't tell him?


Ask him to come over on another day, when you're not having a session, and talk about what he would like and what you (don't) want in your campaign. You could ask him to prepare by jotting down a few ideas, some things he'd like about a character (powerful, either in melee or casting, good with people, skill monkey, able to protect others, etc). Maybe even get him to list 3 things that happened to his character in the past that he feels are defining. Important: you do the same, but don't tell him so. Use your own list for inspiration, should his be lacking.

Maelynn here has some good advice, so I'm going to quote it. I also suggest telling him the tone and type of campaign so hopefully, he'll have crazy ideas that work with the setting, not against it.

I also suggest asking players how far they want to go into high fantasy hijinks and see if there isn't a sweet spot that you, him and them can all agree on and enjoy.