[3.5] "Passive" Weapon properties

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

So, what are some good qualities to have on a weapon that are "passive" in nature (i.e. you get a benefit while not attacking with the weapon).

Warning seems to be the most popular, but what are some other options?

Cheers - T

[ben-zayb]

Spellblade is definitely a good one

Some folks here really liked using Defender on a bunch of qeapons, but I've never been to a table where I or the DM allowed stacking multiple Defender AC bonus

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Eager, obviously. Stacks with Warning. Aptitude. Skillful.

And for a psionic character, Powerleech. It's not passive in the same way you're talking about, but it's great for use after a fight. Refill your pp by hitting your psicrystal with a Powerleech sap, dealing no damage but still healing pp? Sounds good to me.

[Ramza00]

I could have sworn there was a thread on min max or the brilliantgameologist page...but here.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471593-D-amp-D-3-5-Weapon-Special-Abilities-Handbook-Thread-(jwt)

I also know there is a great 100 page PDF custom handbook someone made but I do not have the link off handly it had all these obscure 3.0 and 3.5 weapon abilities.

And while not weapons here is a shield / armor thread.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445923-Saving-from-WOTC-Forum-The-3-5-Armor-and-Shield-thread

Spellstrike weapons+Greater Magic Weapon gives you +5 to your Saves from Spells and Spell Like abilities but not Ex or Su. Remember you can be wielding multiple weapons, or you can wield a staff (which is a double ended weapon), or you can wear gauntlets, armor spikes, etc and together you can have multiple weapons where 1 weapon gives you +5 AC due to Defender plus your first casting of GMW for that day, while another weapon gives you +5 to your saves with spellstrike.

Combine with your cleric casting Conviction (level 1 spell Spell Compendium, 10 min / level) and you get a +5 moral bonus to saving throws.

Spellblade (untyped)+Conviction (moral)+Resistance Bonus all stack for saving throws=+15 to Saves before you start investing feats or class levels, this is merely spell slots and some wealthy by level and not even that expensive of WBL.

[Zanos]

If you need more weapons to enchant, I believe that Complete Scoundrel has elbow/knee/boot/wrist blades. Also a shield can be made into both a magic weapon and magic armor, if desired. Chain Spell also works on Greater Magic Weapon if you want to abuse this.

While not a property, a luckblade grants a +1 luck bonus on all saves and allows 1 (Extraordinary) reroll per day, even if its out of wishes. These effects apply to the "possessor", so you don't even have to wield it.

A staff of power grants a +2 Luck Bonus to AC and Saves.

[Troacctid]

Elemental Power (DMG2) allows you to use the weapon to summon an elemental once per day...but it can be placed on shurikens or ammunition, allowing you to use it fifty times a day instead for the same price.

[Venger]

In addition to the ones mentioned, Smoking is pretty fantastic as a source of concealment.

[Thurbane]

So +1 Eager, Elemental Power, Smoking, Spellstrike armor spikes then? Maybe with a Tooth of Leraje...

[Zombimode]

Maybe with a Tooth of Leraje...

This one gets quoted quite a lot. Seing as this items comes with quite some strings attached, I don't know how useful it is to mention as a generally available/desirabel option.

[Rijan_Sai]

This one gets quoted quite a lot. Seing as this items comes with quite some strings attached, I don't know how useful it is to mention as a generally available/desirabel option.

True, the sign and influence can be annoying, but certainly not the worst* of the lot!
What I find interesting is that the tooth gives you an ability that the vestige does not!


*Subjective


Off hand, Leraje is one of my favorite vestiges for a Warlock, at least early on! Ricochet is great for doubling up on your EB damage! (To say nothing of free Precise Shot!

[animewatcha]

I always wondered if there was a way to ignore the influence done by tooth and still benefit. Keep in mind that tooth has to be worn for full day before it can be activated.

[Rijan_Sai]

I always wondered if there was a way to ignore the influence done by tooth and still benefit. Keep in mind that tooth has to be worn for full day before it can be activated.

I don't believe so... there are only two ways (one each) (that I know of) to avoid the sign and the influence (Suppress Sign and a good pact, respectively.) Both methods are shot down explicitly in the "Effects" description of the teeth. Also, you show the sign(s) (and are under the influence(s)) as long as the tooth is/teeth are in your mouth...


Just realized that I have a bigger issue than the whole "tooth gives a power not available to the vestige" thing: if you ignore the influence(s), you get the penalties as normal; however, while a vestige's penalties go away when they do (24 hours, usually,) the penalties from the tooth/teeth last "until the tooth is removed." So, potentially forever! Of course, taking the tooth out seems like... *re-reads* a pain in the... mouth! RAW gives no description for willingly removing the tooth, only that a "foe" can remove it if they "render you helpless and physically remove it."

[Troacctid]

Leraje's influence isn't so bad. It's Ronove's influence that you really want to watch out for. Hope you bought a ring of sustenance because you are not gonna be eating or drinking for a looong time.

[animewatcha]

So you get attacked by a bunch of elves... Keep in mind, there is no usual self-defense clause when it comes to 'Not allowed to willingly attack x race'. You get penalties even if you are magically compelled to attack them. Got Dominate Monster'ed ? Be prepared to take -5 to attack rolls and saving throws from flurry of blows an enemy elf. Not even doing subdual will save you.

[skunk3]

Parrying hasn't been mentioned yet. +2 gets you a +1 insight bonus to AC and all saving throws. Worth it! Also, Defending lets you transfer the weapon's enhancement value to AC.

[Dagroth]

Parrying hasn't been mentioned yet. +2 gets you a +1 insight bonus to AC and all saving throws. Worth it! Also, Defending lets you transfer the weapon's enhancement value to AC.

Yeah, Defending is very good... especially with Greater Magic Weapon cast on it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There are a lot of weapon properties that grant feats, which you could then use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to turn into feats other than the ones that they give you. Toss the lot of them onto a +1 arrow and watch as the effective price plummets.

The rapid wrath shortspear (Ghostwalk) grants Great Cleave and doubles your speed. Feel free to take other effects that multiply your speed to compound the effect, such as the horned helm, and grab big boosts to your speed, such as adding the horseshoes of speed effects to your anklets of translocation. (UMD your race to "horse" to make use of it 1/hour.)

[Deophaun]

There are a lot more than you would think.

Collision is a +5 every time you hit, with the weapon or no.
Illithidwrought is a +2 insight to attacks and damage. Again, with the weapon or not.
Martial discipline also gives the bonus to all attacks.

You have things like Dislocator, which while the power is activated, the effects apply to your next attack, whether with that weapon or not.

More traditionally, Oriental Adventures has some that grant nice skill bonuses, like a +10 competence bonus to Move Silently for the ridiculously low price of 4k gp. Actually, that's not the ridiculous part of it: you can put it on arrow, so divide by 50.

Weapon enhancements are some of the most poorly edited things in the game.

[skunk3]

There are a lot of weapon properties that grant feats, which you could then use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to turn into feats other than the ones that they give you. Toss the lot of them onto a +1 arrow and watch as the effective price plummets.

The rapid wrath shortspear (Ghostwalk) grants Great Cleave and doubles your speed. Feel free to take other effects that multiply your speed to compound the effect, such as the horned helm, and grab big boosts to your speed, such as adding the horseshoes of speed effects to your anklets of translocation. (UMD your race to "horse" to make use of it 1/hour.)

No same DM would ever allow this kind of cheese.

[skunk3]

There are a lot more than you would think.

Collision is a +5 every time you hit, with the weapon or no.
Illithidwrought is a +2 insight to attacks and damage. Again, with the weapon or not.
Martial discipline also gives the bonus to all attacks.

You have things like Dislocator, which while the power is activated, the effects apply to your next attack, whether with that weapon or not.

More traditionally, Oriental Adventures has some that grant nice skill bonuses, like a +10 competence bonus to Move Silently for the ridiculously low price of 4k gp. Actually, that's not the ridiculous part of it: you can put it on arrow, so divide by 50.

Weapon enhancements are some of the most poorly edited things in the game.

Collision applies to the weapon not anything you do, as well as your other examples. They don't apply to just ANYTHING the character does. Also, the stuff from OA is 3.0 material and has been replaced by updated prices in other books. A lot of DM's are going to take a very dim view of adding a bunch of passive properties to ammunition for cheap to min/max huge bonuses. That is just begging for the DM to start sundering everything you've got.

[Deophaun]

Collision applies to the weapon not anything you do, as well as your other examples. They don't apply to just ANYTHING the character does.
Wrong.

When you wield such a weapon, you deal an extra 5 points of damage with each hit.

Also, the stuff from OA is 3.0 material and has been replaced by updated prices in other books.
OK. Where has the Silent Moves weapon enhancement reprinted? Balance?

And I don't care about what an individual DM may do. I care about what the rules state.

[Thurbane]

The OA stuff is a good catch. Thank you.

Collision etc. may arguably work that way by RAW, but would never fly at my table, so thanks anyway.

Same with DCS on feats granted by weapons: even if it was RAW, would never happen in our games.

[Troacctid]

Wrong.
Why would the word "you" be relevant here? Is someone else going to be doing the extra damage?

[Necroticplague]

Why would the word "you" be relevant here? Is someone else going to be doing the extra damage?
If one wanted to argue Collision only applies to the enhanced weapon, highlighting the ‘when you wield the weapon’ part seems like a better starting point, and then arguing that you aren’t wielding a weapon when attacking with a different one.

Wouldn’t be the first weapon enhancement to be complicated by the fact there isn’t a hard RAW definition for ‘wield’.

[SangoProduction]

Wrong.


OK. Where has the Silent Moves weapon enhancement reprinted? Balance?

And I don't care about what an individual DM may do. I care about what the rules state.

You *really* need to squint hard to make that interpretation work. So hard that you start interacting with the quantum realm, and suddenly particles start taking every possible path (at the same time) to get to every possible point in the universe.

Anyway. Let's not get bogged down with discussing cheddar in this thread.

[Deophaun]

Why would the word "you" be relevant here? Is someone else going to be doing the extra damage?
Apparently, as the objection was the enhancement doesn't apply to anything you do.

If one wanted to argue Collision only applies to the enhanced weapon, highlighting the ‘when you wield the weapon’ part seems like a better starting point, and then arguing that you aren’t wielding a weapon when attacking with a different one.
You would break other enhancements like eager with that interpretation, as you cannot be attacking before you have even rolled initiative. And the standard English definition for "wield" does not require you to attack with the item, just that you hold it in a manner that it is effective at its task. Defending also states the wielding isn't attacking, as the effect is granted to the wielder, yet the allocation must be applied before you use the weapon for that round.

Yeah, you can define words in such a way where this doesn't work, but you're going to do horrible violence to a lot of other things and render them useless in the process.

You *really* need to squint hard to make that interpretation work.
No. You need to squint to see where it applies to only the attacks with the weapon, because that's nowhere in the text.

[Necroticplague]

You would break other enhancements like eager with that interpretation, as you cannot be attacking before you have even rolled initiative. And the standard English definition for "wield" does not require you to attack with the item, just that you hold it in a manner that it is effective at its task. Defending also states the wielding isn't attacking, as the effect is granted to the wielder, yet the allocation must be applied before you use the weapon for that round.

Yeah, you can define words in such a way where this doesn't work, but you're going to do horrible violence to a lot of other things and render them useless in the process.

Thus, why I wasn't making that argument.

[Deophaun]

Thus, why I wasn't making that argument.
Did I say that you were?

[Dimers]

So +1 Eager, Elemental Power, Smoking, Spellstrike armor spikes then? Maybe with a Tooth of Leraje...

Make them out of Pandemonic silver or thinaun for extra effects. I don't see anything else meaningful for special materials when not used to attack, nor for templates like Feycraft or Dragoncraft. Soulforged is the closest you get, and that's more "reactive" than "passive".

Hm. If you have a 50 serpentstongue* pandemonic silver arrows hanging off your body, does everyone around you need to make 50 saves? (* Has to be a bladed weapon.)

Lots of things reduce weapon weight, such as mithril and Feycraft.

Weapons made of jade (OA) give a +4 sacred bonus for the wielder to resist Shadowlands Taint. I'm sure that's very important. They're also ghost touch, except not usable by incorporeals.

Nekode give you a +1 circumstance bonus to Climb.

Blue ice weapons can be used to keep your drink cool -- and you get that "dagger and chalice" pagan imagery as a bonus.

Rimefire ice weapons glow.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Not sure if you're interested in the idea, and it's not exactly "passive," but see if your DM will allow +1 returning aurorum dye arrows (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-dye/) with spell storing on them. You can store healing spells in them during your off-time (or hire an NPC to load them up every day) and damage/buff/debuff/BFC spells, and fire them around the battlefield at friends and foes alike. They shatter, and you can reconstruct them after each fight to use again the next day.

At the very least, it'll vastly improve your action economy, turning each spell into an attack action instead of whatever action it was before.

[Thurbane]

That's a great suggestion, but getting Spell Storing on ammo to divide the price by 50 would never get approved at our table.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That's a great suggestion, but getting Spell Storing on ammo to divide the price by 50 would never get approved at our table.You could get some +1 aurorum spell storing/returning/morphing daggers and morph them into dye arrows? Or add those enhancements on some aurorum raptor arrows.