I'm undead, help me!

[Zombimode]

Long story short, my current Eberron character, a Daelkyr Halfblood Hexblade 8, got killed (due to my own recklessness/not remembering from last session 2 weeks ago that I'm down to 4 hp).

Unbeknownst to me he had a spell* placed on him that in the case of his death would raise him as one of the Undead.

While the implications for character development are great, I'm a bit concerned about the mechanics.


There are three main issues: Symbionts, Healing and Alter Self:

Symbionts: Symbionts are a big part of my character's mechanical side. While we have not found anything that would preclude undead from hosting Symbionts, I'm unsure about. Conceptionally I find it questionable that Undead can host Daelkyr Symbionts considering that Symbionts can't live for long without a host.
Is there a RAW answer to this?

Healing: our Group relies on Belts of Healing, Potions, resting and NPCs for healing. If an Undead creature can heal HP on its own depends on the specific type of undead and the circumstances, but I think the Default is that undead do not regain lost HP on their own.
With no Cleric in sight, how can I restore lost HP? As a frontline fighter, this is a quite pressing matter.

Alter Self/Undead type: One of the big draws of the Daelkyr Halfblood race is the Aberration type. Alter Self is a level 2 Hexblade spell, and my character's ability to turn into horrible Monsters is a focal Point. It is certainly the most powerful ability of character.
But Alter Self with the Undead type on the other hand seems really underwhelming. Alter Self works best if you have Access to forms with interessting and powerful physical characteristics. This is definately true for Aberrations. Undead on the other Hand are for the most part rather unassuming physically but boost nasty supernatural abilities (which I don't get with Alter Self). Since I do not even gain the subtypes I can't even turn in something incorporeal.
Are there any powerful Alter Self Options for the Undead type? Or did my character got shafted hard?


Are there any other things to consider for an Undead character?

*probably a custom spell, I don't care

[Kelb_Panthera]

Long story short, my current Eberron character, a Daelkyr Halfblood Hexblade 8, got killed (due to my own recklessness/not remembering from last session 2 weeks ago that I'm down to 4 hp).

Unbeknownst to me he had a spell* placed on him that in the case of his death would raise him as one of the Undead.

While the implications for character development are great, I'm a bit concerned about the mechanics.

There are three main issues: Symbionts, Healing and Alter Self:


Don't panic, you're not totally screwed yet.



Symbionts: Symbionts are a big part of my character's mechanical side. While we have not found anything that would preclude undead from hosting Symbionts, I'm unsure about. Conceptionally I find it questionable that Undead can host Daelkyr Symbionts considering that Symbionts can't live for long without a host.
Is there a RAW answer to this?

Bad news. Symbionts feed on their host, generally to the effect of some ability damage each day. Guess what's one of the things to which undead are immune. Even if I'm misremembering, I can't reason my way to a living creature feeding meaningfully on a creature that is animate unlife.


Healing: our Group relies on Belts of Healing, Potions, resting and NPCs for healing. If an Undead creature can heal HP on its own depends on the specific type of undead and the circumstances, but I think the Default is that undead do not regain lost HP on their own.
With no Cleric in sight, how can I restore lost HP? As a frontline fighter, this is a quite pressing matter.

Good news; libris mortis says intelligent undead heal naturally at the same rate the living do. You'll want to buy a wand of inflict light wounds in the near future if you're going to be stuck this way and anyone in your party can activate it.


Alter Self/Undead type: One of the big draws of the Daelkyr Halfblood race is the Aberration type. Alter Self is a level 2 Hexblade spell, and my character's ability to turn into horrible Monsters is a focal Point. It is certainly the most powerful ability of character.
But Alter Self with the Undead type on the other hand seems really underwhelming. Alter Self works best if you have Access to forms with interessting and powerful physical characteristics. This is definately true for Aberrations. Undead on the other Hand are for the most part rather unassuming physically but boost nasty supernatural abilities (which I don't get with Alter Self). Since I do not even gain the subtypes I can't even turn in something incorporeal.
Are there any powerful Alter Self Options for the Undead type? Or did my character got shafted hard?

You're actually okay here. There are plenty of undead out there with a fairly wide array of abilities. You've just got to do the digging like you did for aberrations. Crystal keep used to have an index of creatures by HD. You can probably still find it with Google.


Are there any other things to consider for an Undead character?

Most of the templates that make you undead without completely stripping you of your class grant little or no turn resistance. This makes you more vulnerable than most undead of your level/cr to turning and rebuking.


*probably a custom spell, I don't care

Sounds like a spin on seed of undeath.

[Dexam]

Healing: our Group relies on Belts of Healing, Potions, resting and NPCs for healing. If an Undead creature can heal HP on its own depends on the specific type of undead and the circumstances, but I think the Default is that undead do not regain lost HP on their own.
With no Cleric in sight, how can I restore lost HP? As a frontline fighter, this is a quite pressing matter.
Away from books, but I'm pretty sure that Libris Mortis mentions that only mindless undead (skeletons, zombies, and so on) don't regain HP naturally; other undead regain HP through rest at the normal rate of 1 HP per hit die for 8 hours uninterrupted rest (excludes things like a Vampire's Fast Healing Ex ability).
Healing Belts and Potions of Cure Wounds won't work for you, and will be harmful - they use positive energy. What you will need is Potions or Wands of Inflict Wounds, which use negative energy.



Are there any other things to consider for an Undead character?

As an Undead, chances are that you've got no Constitution score (exceptions may apply), which is seriously going to hurt your Hit Point total, and thereby your role as a frontliner. You're also now vulnerable to enemy clerics Turning/Rebuking undead.

On the plus side:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, is immediately destroyed.

[Silva Stormrage]

For healing you want black sand, a special material/environmental hazard that deals 1d4 negative energy damage each round to those touching it. Since negative energy heals undead it basically functions as 1d4 fast healing, just place some in your boots. A 3rd level cleric spell creates a temporarily patch of black sand but more importantly if black sand kills anything it turns whatever it killed's body into permanent black sand. Cast the spell and then have it kill a cow or similar animal to get more than enough black sand for infinite out of combat healing.

For alter self it depends what you are looking for.

Combat Forms?
Undead have a distinct lack of these due to often having massively inflated HD and Alter self can't turn into creatures with templates. See if your DM allows you to turn into zombie or revived fossil animals or something.

Flight/Movement Modes:
Carcass Eater (Libirs Mortis) gives a burrow speed
Skin Kites (Libris Mortis) give a 40ft fly speed
I am sure there are others

Another option is to take the Assume Supernatural Ability feat at 9th and just pick a really good SU ability to use.

[Jack_Simth]

Good news; libris mortis says intelligent undead heal naturally at the same rate the living do. You'll want to buy a wand of inflict light wounds in the near future if you're going to be stuck this way and anyone in your party can activate it. It's also in the Undead Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType):
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.(Emphasis added)

Assuming you keep your Int, you're fine in the natural healing department, Book of Bad Latin or not. Bigger problem's the HP total and the Fort save reduction (although there aren't many fort saves you'll be called to make). Well, and the social implications.

For regular healing, you just get wands/potions of Inflict X Wounds, rather than Cure X Wounds and note that you can't share very well anymore.

[Zombimode]

Bad news. Symbionts feed on their host, generally to the effect of some ability damage each day. Guess what's one of the things to which undead are immune. Even if I'm misremembering, I can't reason my way to a living creature feeding meaningfully on a creature that is animate unlife.

That is my thought as well.
But this is really bad. It means that I loose all benefits of my race.
And loosing my two symbionts sucks as well, as does loosing the ability to aquire the awesome Shadow Twin for free* at Level 9 or 10.
I think I have to talk with my GM about some compensation for this...


*well, for the price of my cheapest symbionts, which is 1000 gp


Good news; libris mortis says intelligent undead heal naturally at the same rate the living do. You'll want to buy a wand of inflict light wounds in the near future if you're going to be stuck this way and anyone in your party can activate it.

Well, it is good to hear that at least natural healing still works.
Aquiring new Magic items may be more difficult. Currently we are in an planar prison (turns out, Brelands economy, and thus tax income, is really good) and from all we know the world is not exactly in an ordered state anymore. A Quori invasion is in full swing.
But we do have an artificer in the Party.


You're actually okay here. There are plenty of undead out there with a fairly wide array of abilities. You've just got to do the digging like you did for aberrations. Crystal keep used to have an index of creatures by HD. You can probably still find it with Google.



Combat Forms?
Undead have a distinct lack of these due to often having massively inflated HD and Alter self can't turn into creatures with templates. See if your DM allows you to turn into zombie or revived fossil animals or something.

Flight/Movement Modes:
Carcass Eater (Libirs Mortis) gives a burrow speed
Skin Kites (Libris Mortis) give a 40ft fly speed
I am sure there are others

Ok, I will have to so some digging. Although I doubt I will find such impressive forms like Grell, Snowcloak or Skum.
Thanks for the suggestions, though :smallsmile:


Most of the templates that make you undead without completely stripping you of your class grant little or no turn resistance. This makes you more vulnerable than most undead of your level/cr to turning and rebuking.

Good point to keep in mind!



For healing you want black sand, a special material/environmental hazard that deals 1d4 negative energy damage each round to those touching it. Since negative energy heals undead it basically functions as 1d4 fast healing, just place some in your boots. A 3rd level cleric spell creates a temporarily patch of black sand but more importantly if black sand kills anything it turns whatever it killed's body into permanent black sand. Cast the spell and then have it kill a cow or similar animal to get more than enough black sand for infinite out of combat healing.

Nice find! I'm probably not in the Position to aquire Black Sand, but I will keep it in mind.


Another option is to take the Assume Supernatural Ability feat at 9th and just pick a really good SU ability to use.

Oooh, I have to checks this one out. This could save Alter Self.




As an Undead, chances are that you've got no Constitution score (exceptions may apply), which is seriously going to hurt your Hit Point total, and thereby your role as a frontliner. You're also now vulnerable to enemy clerics Turning/Rebuking undead.

Yeah. My HD got bumped to d12, but it was still a net loss in HP. I also lost a level, and with the very likely loss of my symbionts I will further loose 9 hp which will leave my HP total in pittyful state...
I'm also the only frontliner in the Party, so I have no idea how this will work out in the future.



On the plus side:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, is immediately destroyed.

Oh sure. The immune to mind-affecting will especially come in handy against the Quori, I assume.
Still, the destroyed on <= 0 hp and General reduction of HP total makes me really squishy.




Sounds like a spin on seed of undeath.

Upon reading this spell, I'm pretty sure that originally it was just this spell that an NPC had placed on me more or less as a throw-away joke (that only the DM would get...).

But in the face of the unexpected demise of my character it is likely that my DM saw this as an out to keep me in the game.

[Falontani]

Undead are not immune to mental stat damage or drain.

Shadow Sibling does wisdom damage.
Storm Stalk does intelligence damage.
Throwing Scarab does wisdom damage.
Winter Cyst does intelligence damage.

So these symbionts from Magic of Eberron are still available to you! Going a bit further out afield we get:

Cerebral Hood which does intelligence damage.
Mind Leech does intelligence damage.

Fiendish Familiar, Gutworm, and the Soul Tick all do wisdom damage.

These are all from the Fiend Folio, and are explicitly Symbionts.

[CIDE]

I don't suppose there was a way to have undead symbionts? Only half joking.

[Arbane]

On the bright side, your group's casters can now make your job easier by dropping things like Confusion or Cloudkill right on top of you.

[Nifft]

The Daelkyr have made at least one Aberration which behaves like an Undead (the Dolghast, from Magic of Eberron p.142), and presumably they made their symbionts compatible with that abomination, so there's some narrative justification for your undead flesh and unnatural soul to nourish Daelkyr symbionts.

Heck, you might even find out that you're only Half-Dead (the trait from the Dolghast which makes it behave like an Undead). Talk to your DM.

[PunBlake]

For a couple decent undead Alter Self forms at a low HD factor, look at Quell (5HD) and Entomber (8HD) in Libris Mortis. No templates involved, and if you can Assume Supernatural Ability, you can use the Quell's Intercession (Su) to turn off divine magic or the Entomber's Entomb (Su) to bury foes in the ground. Talk to your DM before doing this.

[Telonius]

Black Sand is one of those things that can tend to get shot down by DMs. If that happens, see if it's possible to take a level of Dread Necromancer. Their "Charnel Touch" ability will give you all of the out-of-combat "healing" that you need.

[CaptainLettuce]

Nice find! I'm probably not in the Position to aquire Black Sand, but I will keep it in mind.


Hi there! Sorry if that quote was formatted incorrectly, posting from mobile at the moment. If it helps you at all, in dealing with your DM... Page 20 of Sandstorm delves into supernatural waste hazards, explicitly mentioning Black Sand. Black sand could occur naturally in any place where magic suffuses the land, or perhaps where some great magical calamity has occurred. Fortunately there's plenty of Deserts on Ebberon, perhaps your DM could be convinced to allow you to go on a short quest for the sand mcguffin? Hope this helps!

[Rijan_Sai]

For a couple decent undead Alter Self forms at a low HD factor, look at Quell (5HD) and Entomber (8HD) in Libris Mortis. No templates involved, and if you can Assume Supernatural Ability, you can use the Quell's Intercession (Su) to turn off divine magic or the Entomber's Entomb (Su) to bury foes in the ground. Talk to your DM before doing this.
Quell might work, but Entomber won't. Alter Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm) tops out at 5 HD.


Hi there! Sorry if that quote was formatted incorrectly, posting from mobile at the moment. If it helps you at all, in dealing with your DM... Page 20 of Sandstorm delves into supernatural waste hazards, explicitly mentioning Black Sand. Black sand could occur naturally in any place where magic suffuses the land, or perhaps where some great magical calamity has occurred. Fortunately there's plenty of Deserts on Ebberon, perhaps your DM could be convinced to allow you to go on a short quest for the sand mcguffin? Hope this helps!
The Mournlands seem like a good place for this to happen! (If I'm remembering correctly; never delved much into the locations of Eberron...)

[PunBlake]

Quell might work, but Entomber won't. Alter Self (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm) tops out at 5 HD.

Good catch. I was thinking about this as Wild Shape instead of Alter Self. I'm kinda disappointed that you have to stick to your subtype. Quell won't work, then.
Since I'm now interested in this corporeal undead version of Alter Self, I decided to do some digging...

Man, a lot of the non-templated cool undead at 5HD or less are incorporeal. :( At least all the (Su) abilities have Cha-based DCs.

MM1: Vampire Spawn have decent physical stats (Str 16, Dex 14, NA+3) and some decent (Su)s you can use (Domination); you can argue that since you gain its forms of movement, you gain always-on Spider Climb, but that's a DM call. Ghast has the best humainoid-like chassis and physical stats I've seen thus far (Str 17, Dex 17, NA+4) and a bite attack with a (Su) disease to gain.
MM2: Spawn of Kyuss exists (Str 18, Dex 9, NA+2) and also has a (Su) disease.
MM3: Vasuthant (non-humanoid, small, Str 10, Dex 16, NA+3) can fly at 30' perfect and has some skill bonuses. It has a grapple-based Enervating Crush (Su), but it will never work. It's a shame you can't take its Reality Distortion (Ex) for 3/d rerolls.
MM4: Necrosis Carnex (semi-humanoid?, Str 12, Dex 17, NA+4, Deflection +4?, move 40' on all fours) has Necrotic Touch (Su), a negative energy touch attack you can use to heal yourself in downtime; "damage" is 1d6+1 per 2HD, no limit or save.
LM: Skulking Cyst (small, Str 10, Dex 19, NA+4) is a good scouting form, with 30' move, climb, and swim, along with +8 racial to hide and move silently. Tomb Mote (tiny, Str 8, Dex 17, NA+3, move 20') has Quickness (Su), which gives an extra standard or move action every round; if only Hexblade had more spells. Seems like you need a bunch of scrolls and wands.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Good catch. I was thinking about this as Wild Shape instead of Alter Self. I'm kinda disappointed that you have to stick to your subtype. Quell won't work, then.
Since I'm now interested in this corporeal undead version of Alter Self, I decided to do some digging...

Man, a lot of the non-templated cool undead at 5HD or less are incorporeal. :( At least all the (Su) abilities have Cha-based DCs.

MM1: Vampire Spawn have decent physical stats (Str 16, Dex 14, NA+3) and some decent (Su)s you can use (Domination); you can argue that since you gain its forms of movement, you gain always-on Spider Climb, but that's a DM call. Ghast has the best humainoid-like chassis and physical stats I've seen thus far (Str 17, Dex 17, NA+4) and a bite attack with a (Su) disease to gain.
MM2: Spawn of Kyuss exists (Str 18, Dex 9, NA+2) and also has a (Su) disease.
MM3: Vasuthant (non-humanoid, small, Str 10, Dex 16, NA+3) can fly at 30' perfect and has some skill bonuses. It has a grapple-based Enervating Crush (Su), but it will never work. It's a shame you can't take its Reality Distortion (Ex) for 3/d rerolls.
MM4: Necrosis Carnex (semi-humanoid?, Str 12, Dex 17, NA+4, Deflection +4?, move 40' on all fours) has Necrotic Touch (Su), a negative energy touch attack you can use to heal yourself in downtime; "damage" is 1d6+1 per 2HD, no limit or save.
LM: Skulking Cyst (small, Str 10, Dex 19, NA+4) is a good scouting form, with 30' move, climb, and swim, along with +8 racial to hide and move silently. Tomb Mote (tiny, Str 8, Dex 17, NA+3, move 20') has Quickness (Su), which gives an extra standard or move action every round; if only Hexblade had more spells. Seems like you need a bunch of scrolls and wands.

Alter self doesn't grant SU abilities unless you have the assume supernatural ability feat. Even then you only get the one chosen at the time of the feat's selection.

[PunBlake]

Alter self doesn't grant SU abilities unless you have the assume supernatural ability feat. Even then you only get the one chosen at the time of the feat's selection.

I just tried to find everything I could that had a chance of being useful. The best (Su)s are Vampire Spawn's Domination and Tomb Mote's Quickness. Nothing else is really worth a feat if Assume Supernatural Ability is tied down.

[Jack_Simth]

Alter self doesn't grant SU abilities unless you have the assume supernatural ability feat. Even then you only get the one chosen at the time of the feat's selection.

Alter Self doesn't grant the physical stats either. Natural armor? Sure. Movement modes? Mostly. But you'll need Polymorph or better for the physical stats and Ex attacks ... Shapechange for Su abilities.

[PunBlake]

Alter Self doesn't grant the physical stats either. Natural armor? Sure. Movement modes? Mostly. But you'll need Polymorph or better for the physical stats and Ex attacks ... Shapechange for Su abilities.

This is proof that I basically never try to abuse Alter Self.
And I just noticed something else in Alter Self that makes me sad.


The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.

So Tomb Mote and Quickness (Su) are out. I'm disappointed something so abusable is not usable.

[Thurbane]

I'm not sure this is 100% complete, but here's a list of Small to Large undead, 5HD or less:


Allip
Ashen Husk
Baneguard
Bat, Deep, Bonebat
Blackskate
Bonelurker
Bonespur
Bonesting
Burning Skeleton
Cache Dweller
Cursed Spirit
Daemon Warrior
Deathfang
Deathlock
Desiccator
Dread
Dread Warrior
Elhoriad
Fire Spectre
Forlorn Husk
Gaki, Jiki-niku-gaki
Gaki, Shikki-gaki
Gaki, Shinen-gaki
Ghast
Ghoul
Ghoul, Lacedon
Gravehound
Little Thing
Magma Wraith
Murk
Necroplasm
Necrosis Carnex
Quell
Raiment
Shadow
Skin Kite
Skulking Cyst
Slaymate
Spawn of Kyuss
Spectral Steed
Time Wight
Undead Martyr
Vampire Spawn
Vasuthant
Wight
Wraith
Wraith Spider, Small
Wraith Spider, Medium
Wraith Spider, Large
Wraith, Sea
Zombie, Tyrantfog

[Vizzerdrix]

If you have a good wisdom, you can pay for some spell stitching. You can also benefit from a nice high taint score and maybe get a few free feats. Also you can try to get aged a few hundred years for a free chance to grab the evolved undead template.

Ill second blacksand. If that is a no, then your fall back is dread necromancers charnel touch. Just remember to get a nice silk sleepingbag and some scented candles. Also remind your party that you can qualify them for the Lich Loved feat :smallbiggrin:

[Zombimode]

Undead are not immune to mental stat damage or drain.

Shadow Sibling does wisdom damage.
Storm Stalk does intelligence damage.
Throwing Scarab does wisdom damage.
Winter Cyst does intelligence damage.

Good catch. It is at least something. To bad that Storm Stalk and Winter Cyst are kinda meh.



Cerebral Hood which does intelligence damage.
Mind Leech does intelligence damage.

Fiendish Familiar, Gutworm, and the Soul Tick all do wisdom damage.

These are all from the Fiend Folio, and are explicitly Symbionts.

They may be symbionts, but they are not Daelkyr Symbionts. A feat like Symbiont Mastery should (and probably) would work with those, but aquiring thes non-daelkyr symbionts is unlikely.
(Also, one of the main plot Point with this character is the question if my character actually controls the Symbiont or if he is actually just a puppet and secretely controlled by a Daelkry through the Symbiont; thus replacing the daelkyr symbionts with non-daelkyr symbionts would no make thematic sense).


@Alter Self

Thanks at Thurbane for the list! :smallsmile:
I've not gone through each of them, but so far it reinforces my Impression: there are some useful forms (like Ghast for a humanoid combat shape), nothing really outlandish or splashy as Grell or Snowcloak :smallfrown:

Finding something with a really good SU ability is probably still my best bet.


If you have a good wisdom, you can pay for some spell stitching. You can also benefit from a nice high taint score and maybe get a few free feats. Also you can try to get aged a few hundred years for a free chance to grab the evolved undead template.

That would be nice, but unfortunately I'm a Hexblade. Wisdom is the only stat I can dump.

[liquidformat]

try strong arming your dm into letting you have unholy toughness since you are a frontliner.

Beyond that I would go with vampire spawn dominate for assume supernatural ability feat, it is a swiss army knife of an ability and thematically plays well with hexblade or dread necromancer

[Thurbane]

Well the good news about Undead and Alter Self is that, unless I'm missing something, lets you become incorporeal, which is kind of huge for a 2nd level spell.

Create Spawn is a Su ability, and if your DM allows it, you could end up with a huge army of Wights (or other undead) under your control...

Most sane DMs would put some kind of limit on this, though.

[Eldest]

I don't suppose there was a way to have undead symbionts? Only half joking.

This was actually my thought as well. The symbiotes are tied to your life: ask your GM if they could have been turned undead when you were.

[liquidformat]

Well the good news about Undead and Alter Self is that, unless I'm missing something, lets you become incorporeal, which is kind of huge for a 2nd level spell.

Create Spawn is a Su ability, and if your DM allows it, you could end up with a huge army of Wights (or other undead) under your control...

Most sane DMs would put some kind of limit on this, though.

ya create spawn would be a really powerful choice if you can get DM on board...

[RaiKirah]

There's a 'wight' template somewhere in Dragon Mag, so you could turn the symbionts into wight versions with the Create Spawn ability. Maybe they then draw on your negative energy, rather than life energy?

[Nifft]

Well the good news about Undead and Alter Self is that, unless I'm missing something, lets you become incorporeal, which is kind of huge for a 2nd level spell.

Create Spawn is a Su ability, and if your DM allows it, you could end up with a huge army of Wights (or other undead) under your control...

Most sane DMs would put some kind of limit on this, though.


ya create spawn would be a really powerful choice if you can get DM on board...

Maybe you can use the threat of Create Spawn to instead keep your symbiotes.

If your DM is the type who responds better to threats than to requests...

[Zombimode]

Well the good news about Undead and Alter Self is that, unless I'm missing something, lets you become incorporeal, which is kind of huge for a 2nd level spell.

Incorporeality is induced by a subtype, and Alter Self does not grant subtypes (unless I'm mistaken).


Create Spawn is a Su ability, and if your DM allows it, you could end up with a huge army of Wights (or other undead) under your control...

Most sane DMs would put some kind of limit on this, though.

Yeah, it's great, but I think the Dominate ability is the more sane Option.


Concerning undead Symbionts: hm, I have to talk to my DM about this.

[Kelb_Panthera]

...

Has anyone else noted the irony of the fact Zombimode created a thread by this title? Or is it just me?

[Zombimode]

...

Has anyone else noted the irony of the fact Zombimode created a thread by this title? Or is it just me?

... you know, that is quite prophetic actually. This age-old nickname of mine comes, like most nicknames I figure, from a stupide place. In my case it is the rather crappy game Army Men 2. It involves zombiefied plastic soldiers. In one mission you can hear the mad (plastic soldier) sciencist utter the lines "Zombies! Zombiemode activated!"

And truly, the zombiemode has been activated for my character.

[Troacctid]

A couple feats that I don't think have been mentioned yet: Lifesense allows you to automatically detect living creatures. Lifebond gives you +4 turn resistance and +2 to all saves as long as a chosen living ally is within 60 feet. Both are from Libris Mortis.

You could also dip Dread Necromancer to get at-will healing with Charnel Touch, if that's something you're really worried about.