PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Sorcerous Origin: Wilder v2



Ninjadeadbeard
2018-07-06, 05:47 PM
So a while back I came up with an archetype meant to emulate the flavor of the old Psionic classes, the Wilder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21664545&postcount=1) for 5e. It got some attention, but in short order I found myself more and more unsatisfied with it. So this will be a V.2 of the Wilder Sorcerous Origin, and I want to emphasize that I want/NEED any criticism you wonderful people have. How does this stack up to the rest? Does it feel like a Psionic class?

Sorcerous Origin: The Wilder

Psionic Bloodline
Your innate magic comes from a mysterious source. Perhaps you were subjected to strange energies in the womb? Perhaps a genetic defect in your brain granted you mutant powers? Or perhaps you were merely the one in a million born with the innate discipline and resolve to hone your mind into a weapon itself, tapping into the magical energies of the world through sheer force of will alone. Whatever the source of your Psionic abilities, it has marked you. For good or ill, you are a Wilder.

Psionic Powers
Your force of will and mental acuity allows you to draw from many pools of knowledge. Starting at 1st level and whenever you would select a new spell to learn through leveling up you may select from the Wizard spell list as well as the Sorcerer’s, barring Conjuration and Necromancy spells. Summoning spirits and other beings requires mystical rites that the Wilder does not learn, and Necromancy involves the Soul, while your expertise lies in the Mind and the Body.

Psychic Shield
Also at 1st level, your psionic energies react subconsciously, granting you a kinetic barrier that shields you from danger. Your Armor Class while unarmored is calculated as 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.

Wild Surge
Starting at 6th level you are able to inflict nearby foes with your psychic presence with a surge of sorcerous might. Whenever you spend Sorcery Points in order to apply Metamagic, all enemies within 15 feet suffer Psychic damage equal to your Sorcerer level.

Kinetic Flight
At 14th level gravity becomes merely an inconvenience. Your gain a flight speed equal to your current speed. You must concentrate to maintain this flight, like you would with a spell, but it does not take up your Concentration on a spell. You cannot fly while encumbered. You may also, using an Action every round, carry a single object, bag, or backpack whose contents weight a number of pounds up to your Charisma times 15. The object or bag being held aloft must remain within 5ft of you while in flight. Losing concentration on your flight causes you and your carried object(s) to fall.

Mind Break
Your psionic power becomes such that you can dominate the minds of lesser foes. As an Action you may select one creature you can see that has an Intelligence of 6 or greater, does not have the Mind Blank spell cast on it, and is not a construct or undead. That creature must make an Intelligence save against your Spell Save DC. On a successful save, the creature knows what you tried to do and becomes an enemy if it wasn’t already. On a failed save, the creature loses all its personal memories and becomes your friend and ally, willing to go to any lengths to aid you. You also have Advantage to any check used to make the creature do your bidding. It makes a new save to end the effect at the end of every Long Rest and whenever it takes damage from you or one of your allies, and whenever someone attempts to remind the creature of its true past or allegiance. They have advantage on this save if presented with evidence of your deception.

This ability can be used once before requiring a long rest to use again.

Amnoriath
2018-07-07, 07:27 PM
You got the 5e simplicity and flavor down but there are a couple of issues.
1. Wild Surge right now is absurdly broken. 20+ damage boost to anything in a 60 foot spread is way over the top. It also doesn't represent the original at all.
2. Mind Crush is just odd and needlessly complex. Paying sorcery points on a once per long rest ability at this point may only be warranted for a good 9th level effect which would be too much. This is not it and carries a weird charm like effect which doesn't make sense.

Ninjadeadbeard
2018-07-07, 08:42 PM
You got the 5e simplicity and flavor down but there are a couple of issues.
1. Wild Surge right now is absurdly broken. 20+ damage boost to anything in a 60 foot spread is way over the top. It also doesn't represent the original at all.

Well, the original was essentially a +1/2/3/4 bonus to spellcasting, which feels 1) boring, and 2) mechanically not in line with other 5e abilities. I agree I probably went too far with the range. If I wanted to really represent the original, it would just be an ability to grant Disadvantage to enemy spell saves, which is boring. And the ability as is was meant to encourage more metamagic use.

What do you think of lowering damage to Sorcerer level per use, and only within 15ft of the sorcerer?


2. Mind Crush is just odd and needlessly complex. Paying sorcery points on a once per long rest ability at this point may only be warranted for a good 9th level effect which would be too much. This is not it and carries a weird charm like effect which doesn't make sense.

Yeah. Sorcerer capstones are hard to quantify. Mind Crush was meant to allow the Sorcerer a massive single-target debuff that was in-line with the psionic flavor. I could change the ability to make any non-mindless enemy a close friend and ally for 24 hours or something. Would that feel more in tune with the flavor, or should I focus more on the Intelligence drain?

Amnoriath
2018-07-09, 01:29 AM
Well, the original was essentially a +1/2/3/4 bonus to spellcasting, which feels 1) boring, and 2) mechanically not in line with other 5e abilities. I agree I probably went too far with the range. If I wanted to really represent the original, it would just be an ability to grant Disadvantage to enemy spell saves, which is boring. And the ability as is was meant to encourage more metamagic use.

What do you think of lowering damage to Sorcerer level per use, and only within 15ft of the sorcerer?



Yeah. Sorcerer capstones are hard to quantify. Mind Crush was meant to allow the Sorcerer a massive single-target debuff that was in-line with the psionic flavor. I could change the ability to make any non-mindless enemy a close friend and ally for 24 hours or something. Would that feel more in tune with the flavor, or should I focus more on the Intelligence drain?
1. Ehh, not quite, it boosted your manifester level while automatically paying the extra cost equal to the bonus. So your powers were boosted free of charge on top of what you normally could do. So while it wasn't interesting in the system itself it was more interesting than number bonuses.
2. The way I would handle it is like a rage for spellcasting. You enter it as a bonus action and you gain the following abilities.
a. You have advantage on concentration checks.
b. All die rolled from a sorcerer spell you know increase by one step.(d6 becomes d8..etc).
c. Any damage you deal directly from a sorcerer spell that you know may be converted to psychic damage.
This lasts 1 minute, once finished you must make a Wisdom save equal to 10+5(each use after the first) or take one level of exhaustion. The save resets after a long rest.
3. Personally, it needs simplification but more power. I would even go as far as paying homage to 3e psionics by making it like this:
As an action target one creature with an intelligence of 6 or higher you can pay an amount of sorcery points up to your sorcerer level. They take a 2d10+1d10(d12 in a wild surge) per point paid in psychic damage and they have disadvantage on all mental ability checks. Additionally they lose all of their memories and knowledge on who they are, though there attitude doesn't improve towards you. They are allowed an Intelligence save equal to your spell save DC to take no damage and negate the effect. If they do fail they must complete a rest to make the save again to negate the effect. If a friendly creature is there to remind them of who they are they have advantage on the save. Once a creature is targeted by this you can't use it on them for 24 hours.

Ninjadeadbeard
2018-07-09, 10:20 PM
a. You have advantage on concentration checks.
b. All die rolled from a sorcerer spell you know increase by one step.(d6 becomes d8..etc).
c. Any damage you deal directly from a sorcerer spell that you know may be converted to psychic damage.
This lasts 1 minute, once finished you must make a Wisdom save equal to 10+5(each use after the first) or take one level of exhaustion. The save resets after a long rest.

My real concern with this setup is that it's still a bit too mechanically complex. Well, that and Exhaustion is a player killer. Most/All of my players refuse to entertain class options with the chance of Exhaustion. As to the complexity, if I were to change the ability, I would go for Advantage to Concentration and Spell Attacks, +5 to Spell Save DCs for 1 minute per long rest. As it stands, the ability allows Sorcerers to keep dealing damage even while they're buffing, and it encourages more Metamagic use, which I felt was important.

3. Personally, it needs simplification but more power. I would even go as far as paying homage to 3e psionics by making it like this:
As an action target one creature with an intelligence of 6 or higher you can pay an amount of sorcery points up to your sorcerer level. They take a 2d10+1d10(d12 in a wild surge) per point paid in psychic damage and they have disadvantage on all mental ability checks. Additionally they lose all of their memories and knowledge on who they are, though there attitude doesn't improve towards you. They are allowed an Intelligence save equal to your spell save DC to take no damage and negate the effect. If they do fail they must complete a rest to make the save again to negate the effect. If a friendly creature is there to remind them of who they are they have advantage on the save. Once a creature is targeted by this you can't use it on them for 24 hours.[/QUOTE]

What would you think about the following?
As an Action you may select one creature you can see that has an Intelligence of 6 or greater, does not have the Mind Blank spell cast on it, and is not a construct or undead. That creature must make an Intelligence save against your Spell Save DC. On a successful save, the creature knows what you tried to do and becomes an enemy if it wasn’t already. On a failed save, the creature loses all its personal memories and becomes your friend and ally, willing to go to any lengths to aid you. You also have Advantage to any check used to make the creature do your bidding. It makes a new save to end the effect at the end of every Long Rest, whenever it takes damage from you or one of your allies, and whenever someone attempts to remind the creature of its true past or allegiance. They have advantage on this save if presented with evidence of your deception.

This ability can be used once before requiring a long rest to use again. You can only have one creature under this effect at a time. Using this ability on a second creature ends it on any other.

Ninjadeadbeard
2018-07-10, 05:41 PM
Changes have been made to Wild Surge and Mind Crush (Now Mind break).

Amnoriath
2018-07-10, 07:31 PM
Changes have been made to Wild Surge and Mind Crush (Now Mind break).
Better, but does Mind Break have a linit of lackeys you can have? Obviously it is a 18th level ability and should carry power but this is something to keep an eye on.

Ninjadeadbeard
2018-07-11, 12:28 AM
Better, but does Mind Break have a linit of lackeys you can have? Obviously it is a 18th level ability and should carry power but this is something to keep an eye on.

Whoops! Added a 1-at-a-time clause at the bottom.