Huge Spider

[MadBear]

Attempting to make a huge spider for my players. The goal is to have it be CR7 when it's in its nest. I wanted it to feel similar but more deadly then the giant spider.

Stats:
AC 15 (natural)
HP: 133 (14d12+42)
Str-16, Dex-18, Con- 16, Wis-10, Int-12, Chr-10

Multiattack: can make 3 attacks, 2 claws + 1 bite.

Claw: +7, 15ft reach (1d8+4)
Bite: +7, 5ft reach (1d12+4)
Poison: on a successful bite, 6d8 poison damage DC15 Con save for 1/2

Web (recharge 5-6): range 30/60 10ft radius, +7 to hit. All hit are restrained. DC 15 strength to break out or you can attack it(AC 10, 20hp).

Web sense: same as MM
Web Walker: same as MM
Nest: all webbing counts as difficult terrain

[MrStabby]

So a few thoughts:

1) Warning. Your PCs may take advantage of such a beast in the world. Make sure you are comfortable with the implications for Polymorph and Wildshape or telling your players that these beasts exist - but "No".

2) For the web effect I would just make it like the spell, also if you want this to be a challenge for a level 7 party a slightly higher DC might be worth thinking about. Generally speaking the movement penalties will hurt those without ranged attacks most which tends to be those who are strength based - either don't care about the effect or are easy to pass it.

3) Single monster? It needs a bit of a boost the be a challenge for a party. I would suggest giving it some kind of hiding ability and an initiative boost. The surprised condition and being able to web the party early on should make the difference between a level appropriate medium encounter and a walkover.

4) If you wanted to boost it you could add the poisoned condition to a failed con save from the bite. It will make that DC a bit harder to make.

5) Another poison option is to have recurrent damage until a con save is passed. Lower the damage of course. This puts a little sense of urgency and risk onto the characters. It also means that a PC going down might need some attention as the automatic damage will cause a failed death save.

I think it isn't actually as tough as the sum of it's parts unless the players are surprised by the encounter. All the sources of advantage don't stack, the web effect uses an action costing 3 attacks (and it relies on the PCs bunching up). Help actions from things like familiars can make that DC15 check to break free pretty easy for a lot of characters..

Consider using the legendary actions model from the Monster Manual, especially if you want this to be a solo monster. I suggest cutting one claw attack from the profile and allowing the following actions:

1) Scuttle - move up to 30 ft without provoking an attack of oportunity

2) Attack - make a single claw attack

3) Web - use the web effect if it has recharged.

Cutting the to hit bonus to +6 would keep it in line with current stats but would make the encounter quite a bit different between different archetypes. The big bruiser in heavy armour wouldn't be being hit, would be passing all their poison saves, would be breaking free of webbing... on the other hand the open hand monk would be stuck, poisoned, eaten, clawed and generally having a bad time.



I do think you want to make it stronger if you want it to be a moderate challenge for 4 level 7 characters.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I agree that a solo monster needs to have a source of extra actions. Add legendary actions. Often they have 3: an attack, a movement, and something special. Maybe web as a legendary?

[Laserlight]

1) Warning. Your PCs may take advantage of such a beast in the world. Make sure you are comfortable with the implications for Polymorph and Wildshape or telling your players that these beasts exist - but "No".

I wouldn't make it a Beast. Some spiders (eg Phase) are Monstrosity, so I'd use that type.

I'd also be inclined to give it a batch of spiderlings, probably starting with MM p 337 for a base and adding on from there.

[sithlordnergal]

So, I fully agree that this beastie needs to be made a bit stronger. Give it some spider minions, maybe some medium spiders as well. Ohh, toss in a few of those ettercaps, or whatever keep spiders as pets.

As for Polymorph and Wild Shape, let them have it. I mean, there's no harm in giving the local druid a giant spider to polymorph into. They'll never be able to use wild shape for it, so a new polymorph will be fun. And Polymorph prevents the use of legendary actions, so you are safe there

[Draken]

I agree that a solo monster needs to have a source of extra actions. Add legendary actions. Often they have 3: an attack, a movement, and something special. Maybe web as a legendary?

This thing has the damage output of a CR 8 and the survivability of a CR 6, it is a glass cannon and not really suitable to be a "boss", which is what a legendary creature would be. It can take someone down quickly and will go down just as quickly.

By the way, webbing has its own rules laid out on the DMM (pg. 105). They do way more than just turn their square into difficult terrain (they also restrain and are flammable).

[MadBear]

I'm definitely thinking how I might increase it's deadliness a bit. Something as simple as adding the poison condition to a failed save could help. I will say, this isn't a boss monster per say. The PC's may opponent (a powerful necromancer) is the main boss in this dungeon. This is a possible extra encounter, where some of the captured peasants have knocked down a wall in their prison cell that lead to a natural cave, which some of them went down to escape. What they didn't realize, was the wall was put up to keep this creature out.

This was the first time I tried using the monster creator in the DMG, hence why it has the CR6 defenses and the CR8 damage output (although looking the save DC should be 16 not 15). For a level 5 party, I would think that'd be pretty appropriate for a deadly challenge.

I actually really like the idea of spiderlings, but I don't have any of those miniatures to use (I know, I know, there's a ton of things I could proxy/do, but it's a weird tick of mine that I use miniatures that I actually have).

I'm not sure that I entirely agree that the abilities don't work well together. The web can catch potentially almost the whole party. Once that happens, they either need to waste an action, or attack with disadvantage. The whole nest being difficult terrain should give the spider a big mobility advantage, and it's reach with claws can let it hit the fighter up front (and by poisoning them, give them disadvantage, while the back row is hit with claws).

One thing I could do, is make the web a bonus action. That way it doesn't compete with it's normal attacks, but can still be used to pin people down. (and due nasty things like pin the fighter down, move out of their reach, and attack the back line).

So I guess in general I'm thinking of changing/adding:

1. Web is a bonus action
2. If failed poison save, you get the poisoned condition
3. Save DC's upped to 16

Does this help it stack up against other CR7 creatures? Would this put it out of line of other CR7 monsters? What other tweaks might make this more memorable?

[MrStabby]

These changes should make it a much tougher encounter. More appropriate for something memorable.

Lots of saves at a DC that some might fail, decent damage output and hopefully just enough defence to last long enough to do some damage to the party.

[Draken]

Well, Poisoned is standard for giant spider poison so no issue there. I do have concerns with making Web a bonus action.

Most important to note is that spider monsters tend to have Stealth proficiency, that is because they are meant to ambush, not to bruiser it out (hence, high damage, low hp). Your pcs should start out not knowing the spider is there, which will give it a surprise round and advantage, making it very, very dangerous.

I say this as someone who makes copious use of spiders. Once I put my group through a cave with a couple of very obvious spiders and scattered webs and an ethereal phase spider (almost dropped a backliner) when it popped back in), and in another game (same players, different party) I had them run through a whole set of tight, utterly webbed forest filled with hidden spiders (at one point, our Arakkoa was literally flying 5 feet above a hidden spider, it was so funny for me).

This second fight was also (for theme purposes only) comprised of demonic spiders and whenever they would take damage they would screech horribly in what I would always describe as the screams of a person who was horribly killed by spiders (no mechanics, just me saying something like: "The spider screeches, it sounds to you like the scream of a gnoll woman engulfed alive by a swarm of spiders").

[Dragonkingofth]

I might do something tactical with this spider to make it more memorable rather then just add to it's stats: make it a trap door spider


https://i.imgur.com/VRvVibo.gif

Make it a bit like a trap, the party walk over and then it pops out bits somebody, and pulls them back in to the trap, like surprise spider but in a way with no obvious webs to make them think 'spider'.

Other things that come to mind: Pet frogs, no really, some tarantula keep frogs as 'pets' to eat ants. humm come to think of it, Volo's guide did have evil frog people, (flips through book) Grung they are called. Low CR at that, so maybe have the party interact with some Grung, then find out these god they sacrifice to people is SURPRISE SPIDER! (Best kind spider I think), and when the party fight it they got these frog people helping the spider.