Feedback on proposed Eldritch Knight change

[Theodoxus]

So, with the Arcane Archer getting two arcane shots per short rest, I was thinking of changing up EK to work the same way. So every fighter archetype used short rest recharges for their abilities.

Using the same mechanic as a Warlock, they'd get two spell slots recharging on a short rest, cast at the highest level slot they have available (the number of spells known and increased slot level wouldn't change). I wasn't sure about using the same benefit AA get at 15th, where if they have no shot remaining, they regain one at the start of combat. EKs already get a free misty step at 15...

Also, I'm not sure how to balance EKs and Warlock multiclass. First thought would be to let their levels stack for slot level, rather than having two separate spell slot pools (like with a regular caster). The second thought would be to just let them be completely separate pools (akin to how they are now).

Would anyone play an EK like this?

[MrStabby]

Would I play it? Maybe - certainly I think it is a slight increase in power in some respects. Some of it may require a bit of an adjustment in it's way of thinking.

EK kind of lives off the shield spell and absorb elements. Spells that don't benefit from scaling.

On the other hand every time you use an action to cast a spell you are sacrificing the attack action as an opportunity cost. Arguably low level spell slots have the same opportunity cost as higher level slots with less benefit so the more of your power concentrated into higher level slots the better. The question is what are the good higher level spells an EK might want to be casting multiple times? Is blur every fight a problem? Shadowblade?

I think on balance it should be fine.

[Theodoxus]

Here's my current wording on the additional abilities added to EK to address the fewer spell slots available per day:

The Eldritch KnightAny reference to spell casting is changed to reflect a short rest recharge rather than long rest. This results in a change to the spell casting table from the Player's Handbook, as noted on The Fighter table.
(The table just references the fact that you only get 2 spell slots as you level, changing from 1st through 4th level.)

In addition, these additional abilities are added to the subclass:
Abjuration MasteryStarting at 7th level, when you cast Banishment, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, or Shield and the opponent fails to be affected (they make their save and aren't Banished, you fail to succeed in Countering or Dispelling, or the triggering attack for Shield still hits you), you don't lose the spell slot used to cast the spell.
Spell ReadinessStarting at 15th level, your magic is available whenever battle starts. If you roll initiative and have no spell slots remaining, you regain one spell slot.
Interacting with WarlockEldritch Knight and Warlock spell slots are completely separate. Which means if you multiclass with both, you can have up to 6 spell slots. However, you can't use EK slots to cast Warlock spells, and vice versa.

Please note, for sake of completeness, that my houserules use Feats to Multiclass with, with a secondary MC class limited to 6 levels, and a tertiary MC class limited to 3 levels. So, the only ones getting these abilities are Fighters who go the EK route. This limits the potential oddity (like Warlock 10/EK 10 or something).

[JNAProductions]

Would I play it? Maybe - certainly I think it is a slight increase in power in some respects. Some of it may require a bit of an adjustment in it's way of thinking.

EK kind of lives off the shield spell and absorb elements. Spells that don't benefit from scaling.

On the other hand every time you use an action to cast a spell you are sacrificing the attack action as an opportunity cost. Arguably low level spell slots have the same opportunity cost as higher level slots with less benefit so the more of your power concentrated into higher level slots the better. The question is what are the good higher level spells an EK might want to be casting multiple times? Is blur every fight a problem? Shadowblade?

I think on balance it should be fine.

Slight? You get as many slots as the Warlock, recharging on a short rest like them.

For reference, at level three (when you get this) an EK normally has two LONG REST slots. This basically triples the amount of slots they get at level three.

With these changes, it's blatantly better than any other Fighter subclass.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to a Warlock-style EK, but it'd require more fine tuning and less raw power.

[Exocist]

Slight? You get as many slots as the Warlock, recharging on a short rest like them.

For reference, at level three (when you get this) an EK normally has two LONG REST slots. This basically triples the amount of slots they get at level three.

With these changes, it's blatantly better than any other Fighter subclass.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to a Warlock-style EK, but it'd require more fine tuning and less raw power.

You can adjust the spell slots they get.

1 at 3rd, 2 at 5th or 6th, then spell level ups at the normal rate for EKs.

You might want to add some additional spells to their spell choices if you do that though - things like Armor of Agaythys, Hex/Hunter's Mark, etc. that would work with the Warlock "Limited Slots always upcasted" mechanic.

[DarkKnightJin]

I'm not sure about calling the altered EK's mechanics 'Pact Magic', in which case it should stack with a Warlock if there's a multiclass.
Call it something like "Burst Magic" instead. "Explosive Casting", maybe. So it and the Warlock's slots aren't lumped together.
They might still have 4 shirt rest spell slots.. but they'll be of different levels. Which shouldn't be very hard to keep track of.

Beyond that, I wouldn't mind playtesting such a change to see if it'd break anything really badly.
With the full expectation that I'd be going back to my Long Rest slots at some point.

[Ignimortis]

Slight? You get as many slots as the Warlock, recharging on a short rest like them.

For reference, at level three (when you get this) an EK normally has two LONG REST slots. This basically triples the amount of slots they get at level three.

With these changes, it's blatantly better than any other Fighter subclass.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to a Warlock-style EK, but it'd require more fine tuning and less raw power.

And if you actually go beyond level 7, it sharply falls off, because you still get less slots per long rest in the long run, and if the campaign doesn't adhere to the guidelines of 2 short rests per long rest, then the EK loses even more. I do agree that EK shouldn't have peak power at level 3 and then fall off, but I'd say that's not a boost at all, and could even be considered a nerf.

[DarkKnightJin]

And if you actually go beyond level 7, it sharply falls off, because you still get less slots per long rest in the long run, and if the campaign doesn't adhere to the guidelines of 2 short rests per long rest, then the EK loses even more. I do agree that EK shouldn't have peak power at level 3 and then fall off, but I'd say that's not a boost at all, and could even be considered a nerf.

While they would indeed be able to cast more often, like a Warlock, and they might be a little less cautious in preserving their slots if they feel they can take a short rest after the fight.. the thing is that they tend to not really go for damage spells, and more defense.

Beyond that, the most common spell, Shield, gains no benefits from being cast at a higher level.
So suddenly they wanna think real hard if they want to spend one of their higher leveled slots on not being hit.. or if maybe they wanna chance casting something like Hold Person to bump their damage, instead.