The Old Republic - worth the story experience?

[Cikomyr]

So i rebinged SFDebris's Imperial Agent series, and i have to say it really makes the game looks interesting to try out. Thing is, i am not interested in about 95% of the multiplayer crap or "universal content", if i ever were to try TOR, it would be to experience the game for every character like I experienced KOTOR.

I kind of heard the game is a lot more story-friendly than it used to. But SFDebris also mentions in his Imperial Inquisitor vid that the class are now super-speeded leveled, and that makes the early game trivial in term of difficulty.

So.. i was wondering:

- How much repetitive content is there between each classes? Are there a lot of missions i would have to play 4-8 times because i want to play all characters? I suppose what really interests me is the Class-appropriate story

- How much is the story dependant on multiplayer? Are we forced to play those with other players? Are other players tolerant of you not skipping the story beats, so i can properly roleplay my character?

- are all classes worth playing? All stories worth the interest?

[Kish]

With the recent level compression, you can play through all eight classes without repeating any content, except in the sense that "now my Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, and Smuggler are being sent to the same area of Coruscant that my Trooper was at the same level, to talk to different people/kill different people/bring back different information." You'll see quests that aren't class-specific; you will not have to do any of them if you don't want to.

Some dungeons will require grouping with strangers if you wish to go through those dungeons. Those dungeons will not connect in any way to your class stories anyway. You can simply ignore them.

All classes are worth playing for the class stories, in my opinion; some are better-written than others, and there's a lot of thematic difference.

If you're only playing for the class-specific story, you'll want to stop when you reach the end of Chapter Three. Chapter Four has only two stories (one for all Republic-side characters, one for all Imperial-side characters) and Chapter Five has even less variation, except for one chain of class-specific quests.

However, if you get past Chapter Five, after that are Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne--two free expansions which essentially comprise KotOR 3. If you've played KotOR 1 and 2, then you'll know what I mean what I say Knights of the Fallen Empire starts out bringing you face-to-face with the adversary Revan and the Exile set out to find at the end of KotOR 2. If you haven't, it won't mean anything to you, but it's true anyway. There is, however, only one plot to KotOR 3; as with the first two KotOR games you can choose to be Light or Dark, but the entirety of the five chapters before it is essentially your background (before the game started, were you a mighty Sith Warrior, a terrifying Sith Inquisitor, a noble Jedi Knight, a legendary smuggler...?) and of course the class you play still matters for gameplay. (Indeed, the gameplay will become challenging for the first time; you won't always have a companion, and when you do it still won't be as easy as the game prior to KotFE now is.)

If you get to the end of Knights of the Eternal Throne, I advise stopping there without any qualifications. As soon as it ends they set out to bring the game back to a morepig footing, getting away from the single-player CRPG elements that have always been TOR's strengths.

[Cikomyr]

Thanks. Thats actually reassuring.

So basically, the "KOTOR 3" is a single playthrough, and i should just pick my favourite character out of the 8 i played.

Basically, the first 3 chapters are the tryout for each class, and then i decide who will progress in the future.

I.. ok, that sounds interesting. Almost like i could play all Origins in Dragon Age before moving on to the main plot.

[Binks]

- How much repetitive content is there between each classes? Are there a lot of missions i would have to play 4-8 times because i want to play all characters? I suppose what really interests me is the Class-appropriate story
Up until recently, a decent amount, as you pretty much had to do the planet story stuff (which varies but is usually quite good). As I understand it, that's a thing of the past now though, and you can go start to finish of a specific characters purely on their (unique) story missions.


- How much is the story dependant on multiplayer? Are we forced to play those with other players? Are other players tolerant of you not skipping the story beats, so i can properly roleplay my character?
You can play through each of the class stories solo without problem.


- are all classes worth playing? All stories worth the interest?
I actually wrote up an analysis of each class's story after playing through them for my own amusement, but I won't subject anyone to that :P. Overall, yes, all the stories are entertaining, but some are more entertaining than others. With the compressed leveling they have now, it's probably less problematic than it used to be. The worst I ever had it was feeling like the last 2-3 missions were taking too long, never had any boredom or problems before that point.


Worth noting, as mentioned before, the post-class story content is not unique, so don't bother doing it with more than 1 character. To be honest, I've never finished it with any character, as the class-story content was the main draw for me, and it was absolutely worth the time (and money at the start) :)

[Cristo Meyers]

Almost like i could play all Origins in Dragon Age before moving on to the main plot.

Pretty good way to look at it. Just the Origin stories are much longer. If you just do those, I think you can go from start to finish in about 20 hours per character.

The Planet story missions and the individual missions won't vary at all between characters. Some of those are interesting, others are pretty standard MMORPG fare. The class missions are unique to each class. Some are more interesting than others: Imperial Agent seems pretty highly regarded. Personally I liked Bounty Hunter, but that might be more attachment to the character herself rather than the story.

Since the game is free to play, it's certainly worth a look. If you hit up someone's referral code you can get a free week of subscription and you won't have to worry about any kind of auto-renewal shenanigans. Drop $5 in the cartel market and you'll get bumped up to preferred status from free to play, which takes out some of the restrictions they put on free-to-play.

[LadyMeyers]

The Planet story missions and the individual missions won't vary at all between characters. Some of those are interesting, others are pretty standard MMORPG fare. The class missions are unique to each class. Some are more interesting than others: Imperial Agent seems pretty highly regarded. Personally I liked Bounty Hunter, but that might be more attachment to the character herself rather than the story.

One thing to note is that some of the classes have better companions than others too, and there is no such thing as optional recruitment. You *will* end up with all five companions for any class you choose--and personally, there are a few companions that kinda suck. Take that back, really suck. Several in that "and *why* would I let you on my ship?" kind of way.

Still, there are very few instances that force you to use any one companion, so if you don't like them, ignore them except for the companion conversations on your ship.

There's nothing forcing you to play with other players either if you don't want to. And if you do find someone you want to play with (*cough, cough* Cristo and I play together), you can just group with that person and ignore everyone else.

[Cikomyr]

Pretty good way to look at it. Just the Origin stories are much longer. If you just do those, I think you can go from start to finish in about 20 hours per character.

I actually think the Origin stories, and everything that related to them directly in the main game were actually the best parts.



Since the game is free to play, it's certainly worth a look. If you hit up someone's referral code you can get a free week of subscription and you won't have to worry about any kind of auto-renewal shenanigans. Drop $5 in the cartel market and you'll get bumped up to preferred status from free to play, which takes out some of the restrictions they put on free-to-play.

Free to play, but i still have to pay initial fee right?

What auto-renewal?

Whats the Cartel Market, and can you tell me about these restrictions?

[LadyMeyers]

Free to play, but i still have to pay initial fee right?

What auto-renewal?

Whats the Cartel Market, and can you tell me about these restrictions?

Free to play, as in free. No fee to play the class stories. Just download the client, create the account, and go. But you won't have access to any of post original game content (but that's where the class stories converge and become a lot less unique).

Auto-renewal only comes into play with certain subscription types. If you never subscribe (or only ever use the week "trials"), you'll never run across it.

The Cartel Market is the in game store for micro-transactions. You can use real money to buy species, armor, unlocks, etc. The restrictions on free-to-play are things like a smaller in game inventory, a cap on how much money a character can have in their inventory, you can't run from the start, a slower EXP accrual.

That being said, we went through two or three characters before subscribing for a freebie week, and the only thing we really really wished we'd had from the start was the bigger inventory (that thing gets full fast with loot to sell).

[Cikomyr]

Ohh... Full free. I thought you still had to.. buy the game.

****. Ill pick it up without question then. I set up a small playlist of classes, hoping to have good variety of content and stories (trying to avoid mirror classes in sequence):

Imperial Agent
Jedi Knight
Sith Inquisitor
Republic Trooper
Sith Warrior
Smuggler
Bounty Hunter
Jedi Consular

I had an itch for a Space Opera rpg ^_^

[Cristo Meyers]

Ohh... Full free. I thought you still had to.. buy the game.

****. Ill pick it up without question then. I set up a small playlist of classes, hoping to have good variety of content and stories (trying to avoid mirror classes in sequence):

Imperial Agent
Jedi Knight
Sith Inquisitor
Republic Trooper
Sith Warrior
Smuggler
Bounty Hunter
Jedi Consular

I had an itch for a Space Opera rpg ^_^

There's a pretty good breakdown of the restrictions on free to play and preferred here (https://swtorista.com/articles/swtor-free-to-play-vs-preferred-vs-subscriber-guide/). When it talks about Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadow of Reven, that's the post-story content we've been talking about where it stops being unique by class and starts being all the same.

It looks like a lot, but it's really not all that noticeable. Plus you can hit up someone's referral link for a free week of subscription time. I think that once that week expires you'll still be Preferred status, but I'm not sure. We were Preferred when we first did it.

I'd probably do Smuggler earlier, but it's just the kind of story I liked. It's very light-hearted and comical. There's some serious moments, sure, but you can play that one like the classic wisecracking hero and it's great.

Jedi Knight was the first one I did. It's a pretty standard hero story, but enjoyable.

[LadyMeyers]

Plus you can hit up someone's referral link for a free week of subscription time. I think that once that week expires you'll still be Preferred status, but I'm not sure. We were Preferred when we first did it.


As an FYI, the referral link Cristo talks about are pretty easy to find by Googling "swtor referral link"--there's a whole reddit page of links.

[Cikomyr]

I would like to thank everyone for their answer. I downloaded TOR during the evening after talkin to you guys.

[Spore]

From another poster here or elsewhere I gathered the following. (No major spoilers but if you want to stay unbiased...I'd say Agent > Smuggler > Inquisitor > Knight > Bounty Hunter > Consular = Warrior.

Jedi Knight is what KOTOR 3 would have been. (male char for a nice romance, though female romance is nice too)
Jedi Consular is a story about basically being Space Jesus (I enjoyed the romance with a female char)
Smuggler is smuggler. Expect a devilishly handsome rogue (again female romance is cool)
Trooper is war drama, Star Wars edition. It is well made but imho the weakest of the stories.

Sith Warrior basically shows you why the Sith work like they do. Your boss ticks you off more than once, but you get your revenge. If you play Lightside Warrior and Darkside Jedi, you still get why these are not similar.
Sith Inquisitor is basically UNLIMITED POWAH, the Storyline. You scrounge up every last square parsec in the galaxy for more power.
Imperial Agent is imho the lovechild of the games' best writers and the voice acting team. I loved the story. It has believable twists and turns, some of the most outlandish followers and you can decide to stay very empire-loyal or you can thwart most of their moves.
Bounty Hunter is another good one. But I largely forgot any of the story at this point.

I loved my Agent and Smuggler both because Sniper/Gunslinger are my favorite specs and on the agent's side the story is strong while the smuggler just brings a lot of charm on the table. (It basically does the Han Solo formula better than Han Solo).

[Cikomyr]

Speaking of, is there any Race i shouldnt skip for their interesring story beats? Like the Chiss, for example. Do i get special options or insights?

[Honest Tiefling]

Speaking of, is there any Race i shouldnt skip for their interesring story beats? Like the Chiss, for example. Do i get special options or insights?

No, you do not. Sometimes people will call you an alien, which doesn't always make sense. If you watched SFdebris' videos, you'll notice that he's only generically called an alien and even then, it shouldn't have been obvious to a drunk woman.

I do advise being a little choosy with the stories. The Imperial Agent and the Sith Warrior are some of the better ones, but some of the stories are rubbish. You should just skip the Sith Inquisitor, as neither light side or dark side is particularly interesting. Unless you want to see someone play out the Derp Side of the force, because the dark side options make the character seem like a giggling homicidal manic with the attention span of cheese.

There's a reason that the Imperial Agent story got picked to be reviewed by SFdebris guy, not some of the others...

[Cikomyr]

No, you do not. Sometimes people will call you an alien, which doesn't always make sense. If you watched SFdebris' videos, you'll notice that he's only generically called an alien and even then, it shouldn't have been obvious to a drunk woman.

I do advise being a little choosy with the stories. The Imperial Agent and the Sith Warrior are some of the better ones, but some of the stories are rubbish. You should just skip the Sith Inquisitor, as neither light side or dark side is particularly interesting. Unless you want to see someone play out the Derp Side of the force, because the dark side options make the character seem like a giggling homicidal manic with the attention span of cheese.

There's a reason that the Imperial Agent story got picked to be reviewed by SFdebris guy, not some of the others...

Funny you say that, because he is reviewing the Sith Inquisitor story at the moment..

[Calemyr]

Yeah, this game has a really good story, but I always lose interest between chapters. For the record, I have to agree that the game (as originally shipped) is only the prologue for the real story.

One thing I'll say off the bat is that I really like how they handle the whole Light/Dark dynamic, here. A Light Side Imperial Agent is not a traitor, but rather a practical spy that feels the Sith dogma gets in the way of the Sith state. Let the force users play their petty, stupid games and leave the actual work to people who are focused on the actual good of the Empire, yeah? A Dark Side Jedi Knight isn't a Sith Warrior, but rather a Jedi who readily dirties their hands to save the Republic and the Jedi alike because the two factions have their heads so far up their own philosophies that it's a wonder they still exist. It makes the story so much more interesting when allegiance and philosophy are treated as different angles of what defines a character.

Of the main characters I've played.
Jedi Knight - Yeah, this is basically KOTOR 3. You've got a T3 analogue, a female love interest with significant plot relevance, a bad guy who sides with you for his own reasons... It flows exactly how you'd expect it to. Given his connection with everything, I used my JK as my character in the real story (the later chapters).

Jedi Consular - Combine double-bladed lightsabers, stealth gameplay, an archaeological focus to the story, and a diplomatic angle as well... and the Jedi Shadow was my favorite to play. It's just a pity the female LI, Nadia Grell is so problematic due to her late arrival and the age/experience gap.

Smuggler - I really wanted this to be my main. I love the morally ambiguous guile archetype and he gets a really interesting cast, including my personal favorite LI of the prologue. The smuggler (and his companions) don't have much relevance in the real story, however, so...

Trooper - I don't generally play female characters in a Bioware game, but I'll always make an exception for the trooper, who is voiced by Jenifer Hale (which works because she can easily play a hybrid of Mazzy Fenton and Samus Aran). The plot is annoyingly straight forward, with a "traitor of the week" format for much of it that gets pretty old pretty fast. But there's always something to be said for playing a Trooper in Star Wars that can hit the broad side of a barn.


Sith Warrior - The Sith Warrior is a pretty simple story. Serve your master, usurp him, find a higher ranking master, repeat. Unlike the Trooper, however, this isn't as formulaic as it initially appears. With treachery being encouraged and rewarded, it's a constant dance of manipulation and power plays to stay on top. Vette is a lot of fun, especially if you're inclined to fighter her snark for snark.

Sith Inquisitor - I didn't take this one very far, but I know I should. Only one I don't think I've won, come to think of it.

Imperial Agent - Yeah. Probably my favorite prologue. A complicated game of espionage where the difference between friend and foe is little more than the circumstances. James Bond storytelling at its best. The characters are interesting, the plots intriguing, and your role in events well worth playing through just to see it for yourself.

Bounty Hunter - The bounty hunter is simple, like the Sith Warrior and Trooper: make your name by hunting the biggest bounties in a galaxy wide competition to see who's the biggest badass around. Here, the simplicity is something of the draw - no big political angle, just a bounty hunter doing what they do best, and it just feels right. The bounty hunter also gets Blizz, a hyper destructive Jawa whose enthusiasm is infectious.


I'm not going to go into detail, here, but the fact that the story drops class-based storyline structure allows for much better writing, and the lack of voice acting for the main character returns us to the KOTOR style of dialogue, which adds up to a marked improvement overall. Characters from all prologues can show up and join the party, leading to you having significantly more than the traditional 5 ally cap, but they're generally not given as much time in the spotlight this time around. Except for the new plot-relevant characters, of course. It can be frustrating to see members of your party from the prologue just vanish, though it can be nice to see previous allies side with you out of loyalty when their normal mode of recruitment can be brutal (Bowdaar requires you to do well in a brutal arena sidequest, while M1-4X is tied to PVP, I believe). It can also be quite rewarding to see how certain allies evolved during a time skip that bridges the gap before the Knights expansions take place.

The new characters are pretty interesting, with paths that can branch pretty radically depending on what you do. Some can even die this time around. There are new LIs in this part of the game, and not all of them are straight now. So that's now an option for players who want that sort of thing.

The presence of HK units is a lot of fun, particularly HK-55. "I remember my own first activation. The fire burned for hours."

[Kish]

Occasionally there will be a specific reference to your race if you picked the "default" race the writers kind of expected for that character (Twi'lek for Sith Inquisitor, Chiss for Imperial Agent, Sith Pureblood for Sith Warrior). Otherwise, it'll amount to: someone references you being an alien (if you're not a human or a Sith Pureblood), or someone references you not being part of the Empire's untermensch (if you're a human or a Sith Pureblood). It'll only amount to a few lines different either way.

You should just skip the Sith Inquisitor, as neither light side or dark side is particularly interesting.
I'd just like to say that this person most emphatically does not speak for me.

The Sith Inquisitor story is about rising from slavery to the height of the Empire, with Force power unmatched by anyone (except possibly the Jedi Consular PC), but with everything else stacked against you. If you don't find that compelling, well, that's a personal issue.

(Not spoilered because you're informed that you're a former slave with mighty Force power as soon as you create the character.)

[Spore]

Speaking of, is there any Race i shouldnt skip for their interesring story beats? Like the Chiss, for example. Do i get special options or insights?

No, but I the character voice sometimes simply doesn't fit the race and/or size choices. I simply cannot watch a muscular Twilek with the snarky voice the inquisitor has.

[Cristo Meyers]

Like the others have said, the check is really more for 'alien' or 'human' rather than specific species. Chiss is one of the few I can think of that gets any kind of specific reference, and even then I can only think of two times it happens.

Cathar and Togruta get this really bad, since they were added after the game was released. The Republic Trooper, if a Cathar, can still end up asking another Cathar 'what's a Cathar?'


You should just skip the Sith Inquisitor, as neither light side or dark side is particularly interesting.

I'll have to disagree too, Sith Inquisitor was one of my favorites and one of the few I'm playing through again.

I do agree, though, that it does lend itself to playing the kind of maniac that uses Force Lightning for everything. Though personally I found that kind of Saturday Morning Cartoon villain quality pretty amusing.

[MCerberus]

I'll have to disagree too, Sith Inquisitor was one of my favorites and one of the few I'm playing through again.

I do agree, though, that it does lend itself to playing the kind of maniac that uses Force Lightning for everything. Though personally I found that kind of Saturday Morning Cartoon villain quality pretty amusing.

I played Inquisitor Gray (neutral) and not going Cobra McSkeletor brings out a lot more dialog that shades the story than the moments I decided "electrocution is efficient" (though, always pick electrocution. it's efficient). That and gray Inquisitor out-snarks the smuggler.

[Cristo Meyers]

I played Inquisitor Gray (neutral) and not going Cobra McSkeletor brings out a lot more dialog that shades the story than the moments I decided "electrocution is efficient" (though, always pick electrocution. it's efficient). That and gray Inquisitor out-snarks the smuggler.

Yeah, Clare's second character was like that, so I saw most of it. A gray Inquisitor comes off as a savvy player of the Sith political game, and it's great. My second is pretty much full light side, my first was Cobra McSkeletor because that's what I was in the mood for and I wasn't disappointed. The light sided one is shaping up too, but she's only hit the Imperial capital.




Trooper - I don't generally play female characters in a Bioware game, but I'll always make an exception for the trooper, who is voiced by Jenifer Hale (which works because she can easily play a hybrid of Mazzy Fenton and Samus Aran).

I would make an exception for the Bounty Hunter, too. Grey Griffin (formerly DeLisle) is a stellar voice actor.




Jedi Knight is what KOTOR 3 would have been. (male char for a nice romance, though female romance is nice too)

Your Mileage May Vary widely on the female Knight romance. As a male character, Doc comes across as a womanizer, sure, but more of the playboy type. Relatively inoffensive since he never goes after anyone that doesn't seem to either return the sentiment or at least play the game. Play as a woman and reject him and he immediately turns into the kind of obnoxious flirt that gets mad at the woman for telling him to knock it off.

My only experience with him was my first, male, Knight. When Clare played through as a female my opinion of Doc changed sharply. I believe her response to him was 'what a walking skeezeball...'

[LadyMeyers]

Yeah, Clare's second character was like that, so I saw most of it. A gray Inquisitor comes off as a savvy player of the Sith political game, and it's great. My second is pretty much full light side, my first was Cobra McSkeletor because that's what I was in the mood for and I wasn't disappointed. The light sided one is shaping up too, but she's only hit the Imperial capital.


The gray Inquisitor is definitely a lot of fun. It allows for a lot more leeway in how you react (though as has been said, the Force Lightning option is always a solid choice). Staying smack in the middle can occasionally force you to go one way or another, though with the crew skills offering alignment points, that's easier to maintain.



I would make an exception for the Bounty Hunter, too. Grey Griffin (formerly DeLisle) is a stellar voice actor.

The female agent also has good voice acting. She's female Hawke from DA2. :smallsmile:



Your Mileage May Vary widely on the female Knight romance. As a male character, Doc comes across as a womanizer, sure, but more of the playboy type. Play as a woman and reject him and he immediately turns into the kind of obnoxious flirt that gets made at the woman for telling him to knock it off.

My only experience with him was my first, male, Knight. When Clare played through as a female my opinion of Doc changed sharply. I believe her response to him was 'what a walking skeezeball...'

Actually "what a walking skeezeball" is one of the nicer things I had to say about Doc. He was the epitome of "refuses to take a hard no for an answer."

[MCerberus]

Yeah, Clare's second character was like that, so I saw most of it. A gray Inquisitor comes off as a savvy player of the Sith political game, and it's great. My second is pretty much full light side, my first was Cobra McSkeletor because that's what I was in the mood for and I wasn't disappointed. The light sided one is shaping up too, but she's only hit the Imperial capital.


Along with that I just feel that gray fits in a lot more with the storyline and especially the epilogues running up to Eternal

"The Force set me free, for good or evil"
The gray Inquisitor is smart, savvy, but not a blind sociopath like the ones destroying the empire. In this context, you're closer to a Revanite than a traditional Sith. This explains why all of your parental figures just cannot freaking wait to betray you. You're an existential threat to the old order, a new, more stable power wrapped in the appearance and traditions of the old Sith. and it makes Thanaton's last moments, crawling and begging for help all the more satisfying. It also gives you an actual reason to roll your eyes at your chaotic-stupid apprentice, who otherwise would just be like you.

Then during the Revan reborn stuff, yah, it actually makes sense you'd be on the side of team 'let's not kill off each other trying to become the next emperor' and work indirectly with the Republic sorting out a combined existential threat. Hell, your character probably brought along their allied fleets for the Eternal prologue.

[Honest Tiefling]

Funny you say that, because he is reviewing the Sith Inquisitor story at the moment..

*Internal sobbing* I know others liked it, but to me, it was basically...'**** off, crazy sith grandpa' in various flavors once you get past the first chapter. Didn't help that the romance for a female inquisitor is really...Awful. Get off my ship, baldie, before I make the robot wear your skin.

But if you do inquisitor DO NOT GO FULL DARKSIDE. I have noted that the people in favor of it went for a more neutral approach, so maybe I missed some options that were much more superior to Miss Thunderstruck, but the dark side options are consistently pretty stupid for the inquisitor.


The female agent also has good voice acting. She's female Hawke from DA2. :smallsmile:

The guy who requested the Imperial Spy for some reason requested the male voice, but they are wrong. I feel like the male one is far more emotionless, but the female more snarky. The female voice is superior. It is worth the butt-wiggle you must endure.

[Kish]

Didn't help that the romance for a female inquisitor is really...Awful.
This person continues to not speak for me.

You can--if you so choose--play a Sith Inquisitor as Cartoon Evul, probably even more so than most other classes. You should only do so if you want to play a Cartoon Evul character. You especially shouldn't play a Sith Inquisitor as Cartoon Evul and then complain that your character was Cartoon Evul.

[Cikomyr]

Occasionally there will be a specific reference to your race if you picked the "default" race the writers kind of expected for that character (Twi'lek for Sith Inquisitor, Chiss for Imperial Agent, Sith Pureblood for Sith Warrior).

Oh! Oh! This is what i want!

What is the expected "default race thought by the writers" for each classes?

Chiss Agent is what i was planning, Pure Sith Warrior as well. Wasn't sure about Twi'leck Inquisitor, but its not a bad idea.

What else?

[Kish]

The three I listed are the only ones I'm certain have race-specific lines at all, though you can check the default race of your current class by looking at your codex entry once you're in KotOR 3.

It's only occasional even for those, mind.

[Honest Tiefling]

You can--if you so choose--play a Sith Inquisitor as Cartoon Evul, probably even more so than most other classes. You should only do so if you want to play a Cartoon Evul character. You especially shouldn't play a Sith Inquisitor as Cartoon Evul and then complain that your character was Cartoon Evul.

I don't disagree with this, but I meant more to warn the OP that the darkside options are consistently for the evulz, which does diminish the alignment system (for that class, anyway) in my opinion. Go grey or go home, basically. I mean, you can't exactly retry or redo options well, so I think the warning is well warranted. I didn't do dark side as the Sith Warrior, so I don't know how stupid those get.

[Kish]

That's not true.

I can think of one example on Belsavis, in particular, where I would never consider not choosing the Dark Side option, and the more overtly heroic the character is, the faster I'd click the Dark Side option. But that's far from the only one; there are a few cases where the Dark Side option is "now I slaughter my allies for no reason and laugh about it!" but there are plenty of cases of the Dark Side option being just "You're a thug who attacked me and I don't feel like being merciful" or "I'm dealing honorably with innocent bystanders, but the Jedi are my enemies," just like for the Sith Warrior.

Unless by "neutral" you mean "don't always click the Dark Side option whenever you have a choice instead of trying to have an actual character and doing what that character would do." Doing that, either for consistently Dark or consistently Light, will produce a ridiculous caricature if you do it on any of the eight classes. Guaranteed.

"Do you free the enslaved sapient AI, or comply with what the Space-Nazis who created her are trying to strongarm you into doing? The first is Dark, the second is Light..."

[Spore]

It's not consistent that the dark side imperial choices are cartoonish stupid-evil. Often times they are, often times the "pro-empire" choices are both dark or light. If you want to play a die-hard loyalist you cannot effectively "grind" DS/LS points.

[LadyMeyers]

Oh! Oh! This is what i want!

What is the expected "default race thought by the writers" for each classes?

Chiss Agent is what i was planning, Pure Sith Warrior as well. Wasn't sure about Twi'leck Inquisitor, but its not a bad idea.

What else?

The only issue I can see with thinking in terms of what species for what class is that species aren't unlocked by default. Without being a subscriber, only a few are actually available to free-to-play players. You have to unlock them through Cartel coins (real money), or by being a subscriber (though using a referral link for a week will work for this) and using in game credits (which you have to earn).

That being said, if you choose the latter option (and can make enough money to do it), there's nothing saying you can't create the characters in the species you want and then play them after the subscription (free week) lapses. It will not lock you out of existing characters.

[Spore]

Remember that asethetics is the primary concern for your racial choice. It isn't cool if you play a race you don't enjoy for two or three sentences changed during a 20-25h gaming experience.

[Honest Tiefling]

That's not true.

It's been a few years, but I do remember distinctly that the dark side yielded some HILARIOUS results. I played the dark side option to grind out those dark side points (I think it was gear related) and the story got...Strange. I do think most of the gear bound to a particular alignment got removed, so you should be able to finish the game as whatever.


Remember that asethetics is the primary concern for your racial choice. It isn't cool if you play a race you don't enjoy for two or three sentences changed during a 20-25h gaming experience.

And if you are like me, you should keep in mind that you can't change the color or appearance of your clothes very easily on a free account. One could argue that for a single player experience outfits might not matter, but it certainly does for me when you have shoulder pads large enough to achieve lift off and a football helmet on, it certainly breaks immersion.

[LadyMeyers]

And if you are like me, you should keep in mind that you can't change the color or appearance of your clothes very easily on a free account. One could argue that for a single player experience outfits might not matter, but it certainly does for me when you have shoulder pads large enough to achieve lift off and a football helmet on, it certainly breaks immersion.

Oh, the memories of Cris and my first characters. Wow, they wore some strange looking outfits as they leveled up and changed out equipment. Note: this was before we discovered the outfit slots. But there were some dumb looking ones in there.

But now, our recommendation is find a look you like, stamp your outfit, and go from there. Depending on what server you're on, we can possibly get you a dye pack.

[The Glyphstone]

And if you are like me, you should keep in mind that you can't change the color or appearance of your clothes very easily on a free account. One could argue that for a single player experience outfits might not matter, but it certainly does for me when you have shoulder pads large enough to achieve lift off and a football helmet on, it certainly breaks immersion.

I remember kitting my Inquisitor out in a full white wedding dress, simply because it amused me.

[Mechalich]

One thing to note with SWTOR regarding free to play versus subscription is that if you subscribe for a single month it unlocks all expansion material to date and you keep those unlocks when your subscription lapses. Therefore it is highly recommended to pay for a one month subscription (its like $15) at some point if you want to run any character through all the expansion material, which while not as good as the class stories is now rather substantial in size. Playing through just KOTFE/KOTET is probably a good 20 hours of gameplay, not counting the flashpoint-based storylines or daily areas (which are single-player supported).

At this point in time only a tiny amount of story content is multiplayer required - basically just the Operations and the Czerka and Rakhghoul flashpoints.

[Cikomyr]

Yhea, so I did learn that all but three races are locked at first. Damn.

Jedi Knight Human to start for me, apparently. Lets go Vanilla Mayo.

So.. do I shoot myself in the foot for altering between Light and Dark choices? Or is the point system builds both way, and i still can access stuff either sides?

[Kish]

You have a toggle, which should be clearly visible on your screen. If it's set to Light, you get tons of Light Side points essentially for breathing. If it's set to Dark, you get tons of Dark Side points essentially for breathing (so I guess you breathe like Vader). The points you get for the actual dialogue options are effectively meaningless now; if you keep your toggle set to Dark and choose every Light option, you'll reach Dark V anyway. If you want to be neutral, you should change the toggle regularly. Some long-obsolete gear has a Light Side or Dark Side requirement, but really, there's no mechanical reason to worry about your Dark Side or Light Side standing beyond the most basic level; some dialogue options will only show up if you're on the Light or Dark side of neutral, but for those, there's no difference between Dark I and Dark V.

The decisions you make themselves, on the other hand, have repercussions later on; don't assume every conversation takes place in a vacuum.

[Cikomyr]

You have a toggle, which should be clearly visible on your screen. If it's set to Light, you get tons of Light Side points essentially for breathing. If it's set to Dark, you get tons of Dark Side points essentially for breathing (so I guess you breathe like Vader). The points you get for the actual dialogue options are effectively meaningless now; if you keep your toggle set to Dark and choose every Light option, you'll reach Dark V anyway. If you want to be neutral, you should change the toggle regularly. Some long-obsolete gear has a Light Side or Dark Side requirement, but really, there's no mechanical reason to worry about your Dark Side or Light Side standing beyond the most basic level; some dialogue options will only show up if you're on the Light or Dark side of neutral, but for those, there's no difference between Dark I and Dark V.

The decisions you make themselves, on the other hand, have repercussions later on; don't assume every conversation takes place in a vacuum.

Ah.

Awesome. Actually, i am really happy about that.

I hate when you *have* to always pick an arbitrary morality choice otherwise you are mechanically gimped, which forces you into a behavior path outside of Roleplaying.

I have been generally light-sided, but i thought best to sabotage the weapons of the Flesh Hunters. Sow a potential seed of discord between them and their shadowy sponsor.

I will keep roleplaying then ^_^ yay!

[LadyMeyers]

Ah.

Awesome. Actually, i am really happy about that.

I hate when you *have* to always pick an arbitrary morality choice otherwise you are mechanically gimped, which forces you into a behavior path outside of Roleplaying.

I have been generally light-sided, but i thought best to sabotage the weapons of the Flesh Hunters. Sow a potential seed of discord between them and their shadowy sponsor.

I will keep roleplaying then ^_^ yay!

Yeah, this isn't like Mass Effect where it checks if you're Light or Dark enough to take an option. RP it up to your heart's content.

Male or female vanilla Knight?

[Cikomyr]

Yeah, this isn't like Mass Effect where it checks if you're Light or Dark enough to take an option. RP it up to your heart's content.

Male or female vanilla Knight?

I went with White Bread covered in Vanilla Mayo.

So male.

I took the Sentinel. Funnily, the model i took was a sleek, brown-skinned individual with a goatee and what i think are some sort of dredds. So hes vanilla in everything except the physical design.

Next is probably going to be a female Imperial Chiss Agent.

So what's this Legacy thingy? Can i unlock races by reaching level 10?

The game is.. enjoyable so far. The UI is ****ing horrendeous for one reason: the font size is just horrendeously small. I increased the scale of everything, but now the Map menu is too big to fit my screen.

Apparently the font size is something that plagued TOR since 2011. Cant imagine why they dont allow people to increase the goddamn font size.

[Kish]

If you spend five dollars on Cartel Coins, or alternatively subscribe for one month (which will cost 15 dollars and get you five dollars worth of Cartel Coins), you'll become a Preferred status player (after your subscription lapses, if applicable). All races will be unlocked for at least one class then, and all the races that make logical sense for a class* will be unlocked. You'll need to jump through additional hoops if you want to play a character of an actively counterintuitive race/class combination (a Sith Pureblood who is any of the Republic classes, for example, or a Miraluka Sith Warrior).

*Except the pure-premium races which were added later. You can never play a Cathar or Togruta without paying, either paying Cartel Coins directly, or paying credits to purchase an unlock on the Galactic Trade Network from some other player who paid Cartel Coins for it. I've sold them for credits in the past; I sell them for 5-10 million credits, so if you want to play a Cathar or Togruta soon, my advice is to suck it up and pay Bioware six dollars for the unlock.

[Cikomyr]

But.. i bought for 9.99$ of cartel coins.. i am preferred status, and the races are still locked 0_0

[Kish]

Ah. That'd probably be the counterintuitive ones, then. If you can play a Chiss, that makes sense; Free-to-Play players can only play humans, Zabraks, or cyborgs, regardless of class.

When I unlocked all the non-premium races for all classes, the way to unlock them for all classes without paying involved getting a character of that race to level 50. It's probably a lot easier now, but someone else will have to contribute the details.

[Mechalich]

So what's this Legacy thingy? Can i unlock races by reaching level 10?

Legacy is a pool shared across all characters you create on a given server, your 'legacy.' These characters share a last name and you can plot them as being related to each other if you wish (though this has no in game effect). Increased levels of legacy allow you to buy certain perks for both all members of the legacy and individual characters and also unlock certain bonuses. For instance, each companion you get to the end of their quest dialogues unlocks a minor boost to your presence stat - the stat which determines how powerful your companions are. Thus, your companions grow more powerful over time, making subsequent playthroughs significantly easier. Completing the class story for a given class also allows you to use that classes Heroic Moment ability on any character. A Legendary Player - meaning someone who has completed all 8 class stories - can utilize this to devastating effect against certain bosses (single player flashpoint bosses, Exarchs, etc.).

A particularly useful legacy perk to unlock is Rocket Boost - which allows for temporary speed boosts in areas where speeder access is prohibited, such as many instanced areas.


I took the Sentinel.

I swear, every new player of SWTOR chooses an mDPS as their first character (not that I don't understand the appeal of dual sabers or a saberstaff). While at this point it makes no difference for vanilla single-player content - since the various quality-of-life changes have made the base game ludicrously easy compared to launch - mDPS is probably the hardest setup to play correctly in SWTOR. The game was clearly designed to prioritize rDPS-based parties and certain content - such as the final boss of Battle of Rishi - are brutal on mDPS. Sentinel/Marauder, at least, seemingly has the highest overall damage output of the mDPS setups.

[Cikomyr]

Ah. That'd probably be the counterintuitive ones, then. If you can play a Chiss, that makes sense; Free-to-Play players can only play humans, Zabraks, or cyborgs, regardless of class.

When I unlocked all the non-premium races for all classes, the way to unlock them for all classes without paying involved getting a character of that race to level 50. It's probably a lot easier now, but someone else will have to contribute the details.

But I did try to create a Chiss Agent..

Goddamnit.

Ill check again later.

[Kish]

Chiss Agent is locked for you? Hm...

It might be that you only get the races unlocked if you revert to Preferred after being a subscriber--not if you get there by buying cartel coins. I'm sorry.

[Hunter Noventa]

All this talk of the story made me redownload the game so i could replay some of the class stories, go figure.

[Cikomyr]

Chiss Agent is locked for you? Hm...

It might be that you only get the races unlocked if you revert to Preferred after being a subscriber--not if you get there by buying cartel coins. I'm sorry.

That's possible. It would suck though..

How about "reaching lvl 50 with a class". Does that unlock race?

[Hunter Noventa]

That's possible. It would suck though..

How about "reaching lvl 50 with a class". Does that unlock race?

Yeah, if you finish the main story for a class with a race, that race is unlocked for all other classes. Which leads to hilarious things like the Sith Jedi Knight or the Chiss Smuggler.

[Kish]

That's possible. It would suck though..

How about "reaching lvl 50 with a class". Does that unlock race?
That unlocks that race. In other words...to unlock Chiss and Twi'leks, you'll need to either subscribe, or pay 600 cartel coins for each of those specific races. Getting to level 50 as a Zabrak will only let you make a red Zabrak on Republic side or a brown Zabrak on Imperial side. Getting to level 50 as a human will unlock nothing.

[Mechalich]

Yeah, if you finish the main story for a class with a race, that race is unlocked for all other classes. Which leads to hilarious things like the Sith Jedi Knight or the Chiss Smuggler.

I believe that still only applies if you are a subscriber though.

EA really, really wants you subscribe to SWTOR rather than being Free-to-Play. A huge portion of the 5.0 changes were designed specifically to punish ftp and try to compel them to subscribe (a massive failure of course, typical of EA). In general, if you're going to spend any money on SWTOR at all you should subscribe for one month. It makes everything easier, including levelling. You can go ahead and create a full 16 characters (every class/subclass combo) and then play whichever one you want later on after your subscription lapses.

[Cristo Meyers]

That's possible. It would suck though..

How about "reaching lvl 50 with a class". Does that unlock race?

I don't think they unlock until you're a subscriber. So if you haven't either bought some subscription time or used someone's referral link I think they stay locked.

It's 1.5 million credits to unlock them in you Legacy menu (hit Y, there should be an option for Species under Global Unlocks). The problem there is that Preferred status can only carry a maximum of 350000 credits, any overage goes into an escrow account that doesn't count towards purchases. That's the second most irritating Preferred restriction.

I would try using someone's referral link and see if that opens them up. It's only a week, but you could make the characters, let them sit, and still play them once the week lapses.

If that doesn't work, since you'd be a subscriber for that week I'd spot you the 1.5m if you're on the Star Forge server.

edit: though I did just realize that $10 of cartel coins, if that's what you bought, might give you enough to unlock a species. They cost 600. My offer still stands, though.

[LadyMeyers]

It's 1.5 million credits to unlock them in you Legacy menu (hit Y, there should be an option for Species under Global Unlocks). The problem there is that Preferred status can only carry a maximum of 350000 credits, any overage goes into an escrow account that doesn't count towards purchases. That's the second most irritating Preferred restriction.

[...]

If that doesn't work, since you'd be a subscriber for that week I'd spot you the 1.5m if you're on the Star Forge server.

Having unlocked the Chiss on the Republic side (yes, I have a Chiss smuggler), the legacy unlock Cristo's talking about above is the easiest way to get species but it only works if you've used a referral link to get the freebie week (because of the credit cap that Preferred status has) and have a way of making that kind of in game money (we've used Heroic Mission hopping a lot for this purpose--once you've been given a ship, you can take any available to your level from a console on the Fleet, even if you haven't been to the planet in question yet). But that only works so well, and can feel kinda grindy after a while.

Have you settled on an outfit look you like yet?

[Spore]

Doesn't a subscription give 12x XP on story quests? Because personally I find the filler quests incredibly tedious and enjoyed having the consistent story experience even if it meant running around a lot from quest hub to quest hub. Plus it unlocks most race/class combos that aren't locked behind "play character of race X to 50" (and in my narrow mind, Miraluka shouldn't be Bounty Hunter to begin with). As for character optics, I've always used those orange sets and bought/created fitting modules for it before every planet.

Levelling crafting on your first character is also worthwhile (not being subbed locks one crafting skill slot). Basically I'm trying to say, if you're not subbed and a preferred player I don't enjoy the game and that is why I don't play it currently.

I did Biochem/Bioanalysis on my respective mains (but that is easily just extra potions and just worth the effort if you plan to use the char at max level and for raids and dungeons). Any other crafting skill is very useful. If you only have a single skill slot, use Slicing to open safes for credits.

[Cristo Meyers]

Doesn't a subscription give 12x XP on story quests? Because personally I find the filler quests incredibly tedious and enjoyed having the consistent story experience even if it meant running around a lot from quest hub to quest hub. Plus it unlocks most race/class combos that aren't locked behind "play character of race X to 50" (and in my narrow mind, Miraluka shouldn't be Bounty Hunter to begin with). As for character optics, I've always used those orange sets and bought/created fitting modules for it before every planet.

Levelling crafting on your first character is also worthwhile (not being subbed locks one crafting skill slot). Basically I'm trying to say, if you're not subbed and a preferred player I don't enjoy the game and that is why I don't play it currently.

I did Biochem/Bioanalysis on my respective mains (but that is easily just extra potions and just worth the effort if you plan to use the char at max level and for raids and dungeons). Any other crafting skill is very useful. If you only have a single skill slot, use Slicing to open safes for credits.

Something like that. They re-balanced leveling to the point where just doing the class story should get you to 50 by the end of the base game. Do anything else and you end up high-levelled really fast. We've had characters hit 70 before the end of the first act.

We always go to the adaptive gear/orange vendor once we hit the fleet to buy our armor too. As long as you keep up on the mods they stay on par or better than what you pick up/are given. Doubly so since the outfit designer lets you decide what your character looks like, regardless of what they're wearing. Though it was almost a full playthrough before we figured that out. Our Jedi were wearing some...interesting outfits for a while. Hearing Solid Snake's voice come out of a Jedi wearing some bright yellow caped abomination of a shirt was something else.

I think Preferred get two skill slots and you can pay for the third. But since you need three skills to be self-sufficient in your chosen crafting skill it's still pretty limiting.

[Cikomyr]

So I found a referral link, applied it and..

..no race unlock

Goddamnit

[LadyMeyers]

So I found a referral link, applied it and..

..no race unlock

Goddamnit

What server are you on? (there's a server selection button on the lower left when you log in).

If you're on the Star Forge server, either Cris or I can spot you the $1.5mil to unlock one species with in game credits. We'd just need your character name.

As Cris mentioned, you unlock species from the Legacy menu (Y) > click on the species you want to unlock > select the Credits option.

[Anteros]

Crafting is meaningless anyway if you're not going to do end game raids. Just take slicing for the free credits as you quest and call it a day. Not that credits are useful past the point of buying a mount, the odd dye pack, or repairing gear either.

[Spore]

Crafting is meaningless anyway if you're not going to do end game raids. Just take slicing for the free credits as you quest and call it a day. Not that credits are useful past the point of buying a mount, the odd dye pack, or repairing gear either.

The galactic market has great mods and good looking armor to buy. And they're relatively cheap because usually people use them to level up their crafting but don't really use them (except for the PvP bracket pimped twink).

[Anteros]

The galactic market has great mods and good looking armor to buy. And they're relatively cheap because usually people use them to level up their crafting but don't really use them (except for the PvP bracket pimped twink).

I guess. The game content is so easy that I've never really bothered modding anything though. I just find something I think looks good and lock it in forever. Quest rewards will keep you well above the difficulty curve if you're just doing story content. Granted I haven't played in a few months, but when I quit things were so easy that you could literally just go afk and let your NPC ally solo the game for you.

[Cristo Meyers]

The galactic market has great mods and good looking armor to buy. And they're relatively cheap because usually people use them to level up their crafting but don't really use them (except for the PvP bracket pimped twink).

Certainly worth browsing, at least. Though a lot of the good looking armour can be pretty expensive for a new player.

[Kesnit]

I remember kitting my Inquisitor out in a full white wedding dress, simply because it amused me.

My wife and I are running Sith Warriors together. (She’s Pureblood; I’m Chris’s.) We got the wedding outfits as our visible outfits, then dyed them. Now she’s a bright red Maruader wearing a pale purple dress.


So what's this Legacy thingy? Can i unlock races by reaching level 10?

You have to have your Legacy in order to unlock. You can’t create an account, buy Cartel coins, and unlock the races. Once you get a character to 10, though, you can unlock.

[/quoteThe game is.. enjoyable so far. The UI is ****ing horrendeous for one reason: the font size is just horrendeously small. I increased the scale of everything, but now the Map menu is too big to fit my screen.[/qoute]

Did you use the Interface Editor? It’s under the ESC menu.


How about "reaching lvl 50 with a class". Does that unlock race?

It isn’t 50 with the class, it’s 50 with the race. You also don’t need to finish the class story. My wife and I ran Human Trooers on a 4x weekend, with resting XP and subscriber bonus, and got them to 50 on Nar Shadaa.

BTW, leveling Human to 50 does have a bonus - it gives +50 Presence to all characters on your Legacy, which makes companions more effective.


You can go ahead and create a full 16 characters (every class/subclass combo) and then play whichever one you want later on after your subscription lapses.

This does work. I created a character of every race a few years ago, then dropped my subscription. When I came back, I couldn’t create new characters of non-unlocked races, but all my existing characters were there.

Preferred players are limited to 14 slots, so be careful when creating to make sure you get every race. Also, any race you unlock stayed unlocked. I paid to unlock Chiss, and leveled a Miraluka to 50. Both stayed available when I fell to Preferred.


Crafting is meaningless anyway if you're not going to do end game raids. Just take slicing for the free credits as you quest and call it a day. Not that credits are useful past the point of buying a mount, the odd dye pack, or repairing gear either.

Baloney! I make a lot of credits crafting. Some skills are better than others (Biochem is bad), but item mods almost always sell when I post them. (Other things not so much, granted.


I guess. The game content is so easy that I've never really bothered modding anything though. I just find something I think looks good and lock it in forever. Quest rewards will keep you well above the difficulty curve if you're just doing story content.

Crafted gear at level is going to be better than a drop. Drops are also luck-of-the-draw what slot you get and what stats it has.

Easy does not mean easy. Sure, I can (and have) run undergeared. I can get through, but it means more time healing up and longer battles. Some quick upgrades and things go a lot smoother.

[Cikomyr]

Did you use the Interface Editor? It’s under the ESC menu.


I did. I screws up the entire interface, so i had to play around a lot to get something palatable.

Still cant get the Map menu work to.

[NeoVid]

A friend who played this a lot told me that his favorite experience in the game was going light-side Sith Inquistor, because you end up scaring the crap out of the other Sith, who are desperate to figure out what sort of long con you're running.

[Cristo Meyers]

A friend who played this a lot told me that his favorite experience in the game was going light-side Sith Inquistor, because you end up scaring the crap out of the other Sith, who are desperate to figure out what sort of long con you're running.

It's either the Inquisitor or Warrior where there's a moment you can watch a Republic NPC's brain break just because you didn't stab them in the back. Listening to them stutter 'b...but, you're Sith!' in complete disbelief was great. :smallbiggrin:

[LadyMeyers]

It's either the Inquisitor or Warrior where there's a moment you can watch a Republic NPC's brain break just because you didn't stab them in the back. Listening to them stutter 'b...but, you're Sith!' in complete disbelief was great. :smallbiggrin:

Not to mention that there's just something immensely amusing about a Sith out-Jedi-ing a Jedi Master or two... Or five. :smallwink:

[Anteros]

Baloney! I make a lot of credits crafting. Some skills are better than others (Biochem is bad), but item mods almost always sell when I post them. (Other things not so much, granted.



Crafted gear at level is going to be better than a drop. Drops are also luck-of-the-draw what slot you get and what stats it has.

Easy does not mean easy. Sure, I can (and have) run undergeared. I can get through, but it means more time healing up and longer battles. Some quick upgrades and things go a lot smoother.

I'm sure crafting is lucrative, but when you're capped at 300k credits that you'll hit by selling vendor trash by level 30, it's not a huge appeal.

Also easy does mean easy. You can literally set your companion to tank or dps and alt tab out of fights while you browse the internet. I did it all the way through my warrior's play through.

[Spore]

Seriously dont play SW TOR without a sub. It's like torturing yourself, just with extremely ineffective tools. A month of sub easily is enough for 1-2 stories and the money is well spent and a fair amount for the story quality offered.

[Cikomyr]

Seriously dont play SW TOR without a sub. It's like torturing yourself, just with extremely ineffective tools. A month of sub easily is enough for 1-2 stories and the money is well spent and a fair amount for the story quality offered.

I can play a few hours every 3rd night or so, so i am not sure about your speed of progress ;)

[Anteros]

I really don't think playing without a sub is so bad. Especially if you're not going to be doing any of the multiplayer stuff like raiding or pvp. I'd spend enough to unlock preferred just for the various quality of life upgrades, but there's not really big any benefit to subscribing if you're just doing solo story stuff.

[Honest Tiefling]

I really don't think playing without a sub is so bad. Especially if you're not going to be doing any of the multiplayer stuff like raiding or pvp. I'd spend enough to unlock preferred just for the various quality of life upgrades, but there's not really big any benefit to subscribing if you're just doing solo story stuff.

This. I think getting a sub to blast through the stories would be one thing, but paying for a sub for months to play a few hours? I think getting a sub to get to preferred status and then letting it laspe until you have a few days dedicated to gaming might be better.

If you watched the SF debris series...He also wasn't ****ing kidding that the story sometimes broke by using the teleports to get to the quest area faster. I don't remember exactly when it happens but if you are trying to do the story, don't hearth back to the capital, it'll never work.

[Hunter Noventa]

This. I think getting a sub to blast through the stories would be one thing, but paying for a sub for months to play a few hours? I think getting a sub to get to preferred status and then letting it laspe until you have a few days dedicated to gaming might be better.

If you watched the SF debris series...He also wasn't ****ing kidding that the story sometimes broke by using the teleports to get to the quest area faster. I don't remember exactly when it happens but if you are trying to do the story, don't hearth back to the capital, it'll never work.

Yeah, sometimes there are cutscenes triggered explicitly by utilizing your ship to go where you're going. Though it's specifically an issue when you teleport to the fleet (the 'captial' is really the respective fleet station, not whatever world is the actual capital). You might end up having to fly back to the planet you were on and then leaving again. It's very silly.

[Cristo Meyers]

Yeah, sometimes there are cutscenes triggered explicitly by utilizing your ship to go where you're going. Though it's specifically an issue when you teleport to the fleet (the 'captial' is really the respective fleet station, not whatever world is the actual capital). You might end up having to fly back to the planet you were on and then leaving again. It's very silly.

They kinda-sorta fixed that in quests going forward. But yeah, anything in the base game: "Travel to X" really means "Use your ship to travel to X"

[Hunter Noventa]

Can someone who's been playing the game for a while more recently confirm something for me?

My chapters window lists out the chapters for all of Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne, so I assume I have access to them once I play through them all, is hat true?

And do I have to actually get to Eternal Throne before I can progress beyond 65? I just picked up the game again and sitting one point shy of level 66 on my sniper is awkward, when i've got several chapters of Fallen Empire to go.

[Kish]

Can someone who's been playing the game for a while more recently confirm something for me?

My chapters window lists out the chapters for all of Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne, so I assume I have access to them once I play through them all, is hat true?
Yes, but you can't change your decisions for the first time that character played through the chapter. You can let Kaliyo blow up the Spire as many times as you like, but if you stopped her the first time, as far as the rest of the game's concerned, the Spire didn't get blown up.


And do I have to actually get to Eternal Throne before I can progress beyond 65? I just picked up the game again and sitting one point shy of level 66 on my sniper is awkward, when i've got several chapters of Fallen Empire to go.
No. You can easily hit 70 well before you've finished even Chapter One of your class story. Your sniper will level to 66 as soon as they discover a new codex entry, kill a single enemy, or otherwise gain one experience point.

[huttj509]

"Hey, I should reinstall SWToR and see what I can access, it's been a while...let's check my account for how many cartel coins I have"

6520

Turns out when you've had a security key attached since 2011 100/month adds up. Fortunately I knew where it was (packrat powers, enabled).

[Hunter Noventa]

No. You can easily hit 70 well before you've finished even Chapter One of your class story. Your sniper will level to 66 as soon as they discover a new codex entry, kill a single enemy, or otherwise gain one experience point.

So I don't actually have access to the last expansion, because this morning I was sitting at 1xp shy of 66, went and killed some stuff and visibly got exp in the log, and didn't level up. I wish they made that a lot more clear.

I wasn't expecting it, since I hadn't subbed in years and don't really intend to, but it needs to be made more clear.

[Cikomyr]

So i just finished Coruscant with the Knight. Doing *only* the Knight mission because **** the rest of the quests.

Its.. cute so far. Straightforward KOTOR game, i understand why people its the closest to KOTOR 3 there is.

I like T7. Cute little bugger with a fun attitude. Doesnt like Mira that much, too.. excitably green. She isnt ready to be on her own yet.

I let the guy at the end of Tython live. I hope to both use his knowledge and maybe focus his eternal rage into something a bit more positive than "kill all Jedi". I hope to redeem him in the end..

Too bad the game railroaded me in lying to everyone about his death. I would have preferred to ve honest about me letting him live.

The sequence where you assemble your Lightsaber was cool a ****.

[Kish]

Your choices weren't "kill him or let him go." Your choices were "accept his offer, or take him back to the Jedi Temple for therapy."

In other words, depending on how much you care about,

I hope to redeem him in the end..
You might want to delete and recreate that character to start over and make a different decision at the end of Tython, because you just chose not to. That one is a case where the Dark Side option is evil and the Light Side option is good.

[RayGallade]

So as someone who hasn't played TOR before, would you recommend playing it just to see the story? I'm not exactly sure where the breakdown is as far as solo story and multiplayer stuff. Would I miss any story content if I played by myself?

[Kish]

So as someone who hasn't played TOR before, would you recommend playing it just to see the story?

Yes. But to short-circuit repeating the early stages of this thread, my advice is to subscribe for a month first.

I'm not exactly sure where the breakdown is as far as solo story and multiplayer stuff. Would I miss any story content if I played by myself?
No. Indeed, if you played with someone else the story would make less sense. "Now I, a new Sith Inquisitor apprentice, am going to a meeting with my master in which she'll tell me things she wouldn't want to be common knowledge. She'll ignore the bounty hunter standing in the corner."

[LadyMeyers]

So as someone who hasn't played TOR before, would you recommend playing it just to see the story? I'm not exactly sure where the breakdown is as far as solo story and multiplayer stuff. Would I miss any story content if I played by myself?

You can play through the whole game without ever doing anything multiplayer. And as there's an option to play completely for free, it's definitely worth trying out. You have nothing to lose.

I would, however, say that subscribing isn't necessary to enjoy it. Subscribing makes it easier to do certain things, but it's by no means a requirement. But if you want to try it out as a subscriber, there are referral links out there that give you a week as a subscriber totally for free. If at the end of that week, you can either pay for a subscription OR just let your account revert back to free with no charge.

Cristo and I enjoy the game, and have played the content both solo (and with each other).

[Cikomyr]

Your choices weren't "kill him or let him go." Your choices were "accept his offer, or take him back to the Jedi Temple for therapy."

In other words, depending on how much you care about,

You might want to delete and recreate that character to start over and make a different decision at the end of Tython, because you just chose not to. That one is a case where the Dark Side option is evil and the Light Side option is good.

You misunderstand my intentions ;)

I should have said that my character hopes to redeem him. But in the meanwhile, he can offer me power to help me defeat the Sith! Clearly, i can encourage his drive to help and quasi-worship me, and eventually drive him toward the Light by showing him how Jedi are meant to act.

My Knight, Truesilver, is a slightly Naive, slightly arrogant individual who is nevertheless well meaning. He think he is in control of the situation, because he personally rescued his master. So obviously, he can succeed at anything by proving that Right Makes Might.

[huttj509]

You can play through the whole game without ever doing anything multiplayer. And as there's an option to play completely for free, it's definitely worth trying out. You have nothing to lose.

I would, however, say that subscribing isn't necessary to enjoy it. Subscribing makes it easier to do certain things, but it's by no means a requirement. But if you want to try it out as a subscriber, there are referral links out there that give you a week as a subscriber totally for free. If at the end of that week, you can either pay for a subscription OR just let your account revert back to free with no charge.

Cristo and I enjoy the game, and have played the content both solo (and with each other).

My general method for this sort of thing is "play for free until I hit the paid barrier either in content or frustration, then decide what I want to spend money on."

[Mechalich]

So as someone who hasn't played TOR before, would you recommend playing it just to see the story? I'm not exactly sure where the breakdown is as far as solo story and multiplayer stuff. Would I miss any story content if I played by myself?

At the current date only a tiny amount of material requires multiplayer. Even the many of the flashpoints - multiplayer dungeons in general MMO parlance - have been upgraded to have single player modes.

To my knowledge the only story elements of the game that require multiplayer activity to complete are:
CZ-198 Czerka mini-plot: the flashpoints Czerka Corporate Labs and Czerka Core Meltdown require a group (Core Meltdown is also reasonable challenging and new players trying to pug it will probably die a lot)
Tion Hegemony Crisis mini-plot: the flashpoints Kaon Under Siege and Lost Island require a multiplayer group. Lost Island remains the toughest flashpoint in the game and unless you get good and find a friendly guild don't expect to ever complete it even as a subscriber.
Dread Masters Storyline: portions of the Dread Masters storyline are told through Operations (Raids), specifically Eternal Conflict, Scum and Villainy, Dread Fortress, and Dread Palace.
Iokath Storyline: the Machine Gods operation includes material related to this storyline.


The amount of story you're actually missing in this fashion is around 10 minutes worth of cutscenes/conversations total, so it's very small and can all be found on youtube without significant difficulties. There is other group only content - such as Uprisings & World Bosses, but these are functionally disconnected from the story.

[LadyMeyers]

At the current date only a tiny amount of material requires multiplayer. Even the many of the flashpoints - multiplayer dungeons in general MMO parlance - have been upgraded to have single player modes.

To my knowledge the only story elements of the game that require multiplayer activity to complete are:
CZ-198 Czerka mini-plot: the flashpoints Czerka Corporate Labs and Czerka Core Meltdown require a group (Core Meltdown is also reasonable challenging and new players trying to pug it will probably die a lot)
Tion Hegemony Crisis mini-plot: the flashpoints Kaon Under Siege and Lost Island require a multiplayer group. Lost Island remains the toughest flashpoint in the game and unless you get good and find a friendly guild don't expect to ever complete it even as a subscriber.
Dread Masters Storyline: portions of the Dread Masters storyline are told through Operations (Raids), specifically Eternal Conflict, Scum and Villainy, Dread Fortress, and Dread Palace.
Iokath Storyline: the Machine Gods operation includes material related to this storyline.


The amount of story you're actually missing in this fashion is around 10 minutes worth of cutscenes/conversations total, so it's very small and can all be found on youtube without significant difficulties. There is other group only content - such as Uprisings & World Bosses, but these are functionally disconnected from the story.

There are also a few puzzles that can't be completed solo--the Colocoid War Games flashpoint can be completed with a very specific combination of two but not a single player, the Seeds of Rage also can be completed with two under certain circumstances, and AFAIK the Seeker Droid missions can't be completed with less than 4 (this one I can't personally speak to--we tried it with the 2 of us, and got stuck at one puzzle and have read that there's another one further on that's worse).

[Mechalich]

There are also a few puzzles that can't be completed solo--the Colocoid War Games flashpoint can be completed with a very specific combination of two but not a single player, the Seeds of Rage also can be completed with two under certain circumstances, and AFAIK the Seeker Droid missions can't be completed with less than 4 (this one I can't personally speak to--we tried it with the 2 of us, and got stuck at one puzzle and have read that there's another one further on that's worse).

I wouldn't say Colocoid has any real story content thought - that's why I didn't include some of the other multi-player only flashpoints like Hammer Station. You're right that the Macrobinoculars and Seeker Droid final missions require groups - though the chances of someone completing those who is not rather serious about the game is close to nil.

[Peelee]

If that doesn't work, since you'd be a subscriber for that week I'd spot you the 1.5m if you're on the Star Forge server.


If you're on the Star Forge server, either Cris or I can spot you the $1.5mil to unlock one species with in game credits. We'd just need your character name.

How do y'all make enough that you can just offer to spot 1.5 mil? I've got a guild solely for my wife and friends (mostly for me, since I'm the only relatively active one. Just got back into it last year, then had a six month hiatus until last month) and in trying to get a flagship. Only have like 6mil or so so far.

Ideally aside from farming Cartel items, though I'm not completely opposed to that.

[LadyMeyers]

How do y'all make enough that you can just offer to spot 1.5 mil? I've got a guild solely for my wife and friends (mostly for me, since I'm the only relatively active one. Just got back into it last year, then had a six month hiatus until last month) and in trying to get a flagship. Only have like 6mil or so so far.

Ideally aside from farming Cartel items, though I'm not completely opposed to that.

Truth be told, we don't have that much money. We have enough that spotting $1.5 mil won't cripple anything we want to do. We have no guilds, no flagships, and frankly, very little at the moment that we really want to spend money on. Our characters are all kitted and dressed the way we want them, the strongholds we wanted (soon-to-be-available-Rishi excluded) are unlocked and decorated (more or less anyway), and we have enough high level characters that can Heroic-Hop or Weekly-Mission-Blitz to replace the funds.

Also, the gold level augments (46, the schematics for which are purchased, and 48, the schematics for which are a random drop on the Nathema Conspiracy flashpoint) sell for approx. 2 to 5 mil a piece, depending on the augment.

[Peelee]

Cool to know. Thanks!

[LadyMeyers]

Cool to know. Thanks!

The only trouble with those gold level augments is that they require Iokath Recombinators (purchasable from the Command vendor on the fleet), Encrypted Memory Cores (we get ours from Command Crates but I'm led to believe that you can get them from Guild Conquesting), and Charged Matter Transubstantiators (we also get these from Command Crates, but I believe you can get them from Guild Conquesting too).

I could be wrong on this one, but you might be able to get them from Master Flashpoints too, but don't quote me on that.

As for the Weekly-Blitz, going through all the weekly missions on the Activities menu (Iokath, Yavin, CZ, etc) ought to net you about $1.2 to $1.5 per character (and a ***load of Command Levels), but that can feel like a grind after a while.

[Cristo Meyers]

No. Indeed, if you played with someone else the story would make less sense. "Now I, a new Sith Inquisitor apprentice, am going to a meeting with my master in which she'll tell me things she wouldn't want to be common knowledge. She'll ignore the bounty hunter standing in the corner."

Or "In the Grand Melee, hunters fight alone! Except for you, newcomer, you can bring your Sith." There are a few places where, depending on group composition, there are unique dialogue choices in group conversations.

Though that is avoidable if you just don't go into each other's class phases. I will admit that a lot of the fun we had came from improv-ing our own dialogue.

[Spore]

Or "In the Grand Melee, hunters fight alone! Except for you, newcomer, you can bring your Sith."

I feel the companions are weirder in this than any group members.

You will have a duel with your arch rival. You can bring your doctor to that however. Also as per the lore the enemy sith sorcerer should be vastly powerful, yet a member of the Empire artifact branch can perfectly withstand his attacks.

[Cikomyr]

The Coruscant quest line for the Knight was a bore. Dialogues were interesting, but jesus the amount of backtracking is insane. I almost want to subscribe just so i keep the 6 minute cooldown on fast travel.

I liked how i chewed up the security head for letting the doctor get kidnapped, and yet it turned out to be entirely blameless of the affair. That was interesting.

I almost took up the Coruscant main quest line, but the Ambassador Droid just.. was... So goddamn stupid. And i wanted to skip town ASAP. What a boring planet.

Ord Mantel was hilarious. I didnt realized i was in the starter zone for the Smugglers and Troopers. Although finding the path to get to the island was a bore.

Taris is cool. I love skipping the mobs to get ahead in the story. The Knight Questline is ok so far -although i like Watcher 1 - and the Taris Questline is a bit more interesting to pick up than Coruscant's.

[Mechalich]

The Coruscant quest line for the Knight was a bore. Dialogues were interesting, but jesus the amount of backtracking is insane. I almost want to subscribe just so i keep the 6 minute cooldown on fast travel.

With the right legacy perks that cooldown ceases to exist entirely.


As for the Weekly-Blitz, going through all the weekly missions on the Activities menu (Iokath, Yavin, CZ, etc) ought to net you about $1.2 to $1.5 per character (and a ***load of Command Levels), but that can feel like a grind after a while.

Yeah, the way the game is structured CXP grinding by pretty much any method is going to generate large piles of cash (unless you do flashpoints and die a lot). A few million, at this point, is relative chump change. But the grind is...grindy.

[Peelee]

The Coruscant quest line for the Knight was a bore. Dialogues were interesting, but jesus the amount of backtracking is insane. I almost want to subscribe just so i keep the 6 minute cooldown on fast travel.

I liked how i chewed up the security head for letting the doctor get kidnapped, and yet it turned out to be entirely blameless of the affair. That was interesting.

I almost took up the Coruscant main quest line, but the Ambassador Droid just.. was... So goddamn stupid. And i wanted to skip town ASAP. What a boring planet.

Ord Mantel was hilarious. I didnt realized i was in the starter zone for the Smugglers and Troopers. Although finding the path to get to the island was a bore.

Taris is cool. I love skipping the mobs to get ahead in the story. The Knight Questline is ok so far -although i like Watcher 1 - and the Taris Questline is a bit more interesting to pick up than Coruscant's.

For all class storylines, Chapter 1 is kind of its own story that works as a long intro, and Chapters 2&3 are the meat & potatoes story. That's where the Knight story really takes off, IMO.

I also don't really remember the Knights Ch. 1 story, to be fair.

[Cikomyr]

I also don't really remember the Knights Ch. 1 story, to be fair.


First part is saving Tython; the attack of the Flesh Raiders and protection of the Twileck colony. All orchestrated by your master's former Padawan.

Then the story picks up on Coruscant. The Republic developped superweapons, but as soon as you learn about these, they get stolen. Next part of the chapter is me hunting after the stolen data, or the kidnapped scientist. The head scientist turns out to be an undercover Sith who already sent the data to his father, Darth Evilus.

You are there sent on a merry chase to intercept the information. On an Imperial base on Ord Mantel, you discover that apparently, Darth Evilus plans to combine all superweapons on his capital ship, the.. Devastator(?).

Next was my pick of Nar Shada, or Taris. I picked Taris, and turns out that planet was the hiding place of a fanatic anti-Sith genius scientist who was the brain behind the superweapons. I tried to get to him, but Imperial Intelligence, headed by Watcher 1, have been a step ahead of me all the way. They know everything about me, as it happens, and have already kidnapped the scientist.


Speaking of which, Kira(the consular Padawan i have as a companion) may turn out more interesting than initially projected. On Ord Mantel, she was taken hostage by the Siths and yet.. managed to misdirect Darth Evilus. Also, the Sith inquisitor present was under clear order not to kill her. Wtf is up with that?

I decided to stick with Kira for now to build my influence and learn more about her.

[Hunter Noventa]

Ah man, I forgot how much the Sith Inquisitor storyline just lets you snark at everyone. It's great. Glad I'm playing it again.

[Kesnit]

Also, the Sith inquisitor present was under clear order not to kill her. Wtf is up with that?

It was explained in that same scene. Kira is a Child of the Emperor.

[Cikomyr]

It was explained in that same scene. Kira is a Child of the Emperor.

It wasnt. Trust me, i would have picked that up.

[Calemyr]

....
....
....
....

Dang it, people. Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. Guess it's time to dust off the old blaster.

Well, I guess my first goal is to finish the a few of the classes I got to level 45 but never finished Act 3 with: Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Consular. I really should have finished them off ages ago, if only to get the racial and class achievements for my legacy. Previously I just did them so that my buff would have all four bonuses attached to it, which only required finishing act 2.

After that, I want to do another full run. Full character, from level 1 to 70. My first (and only) character that I took to the end of Eternal Throne (though I see a couple chapters have been added since) was a Male Jedi Knight, because that seemed to fit the story best, seeing as JK is the only one to really have a direct connection between original and expansion content. I've been trying to think of another character that would have at least a solid thread leading between beginning and end. Kinda leaning towards Sith Inquisitor (never played it before, because my brother played the SI against my Sith Warrior).

Anyway, I'm back in a galaxy far, far away. So if you see anyone from the Blackstone legacy, feel free to say hi.

[Hunter Noventa]

I'm working on finishing up my Sniper for the expansion content (which i may or may not have all of, i still haven't gotten clarity on that point).

If I still feel like playing after doing another Inquisitor and probably another JK or even Agent Class story, I'll likely take my Warrior through the expansions because it would fit nicely.

[Cikomyr]

The one aggravating thing, in my opinion, is that weapon quest rewards are locked because they need Rise of the Hutt Cartel

I am still using the weapon i got on Tython -_-

[MCerberus]

Ah man, I forgot how much the Sith Inquisitor storyline just lets you snark at everyone. It's great. Glad I'm playing it again.

The best moment is fun with force persuasion at the end of Voss

[Kish]

You can replace all its parts--at least, you can if you're a subscriber. I don't know if crafted hilts, mods, and enhancements are off-limits for free-to-play players. After the starting planet, I never replace my entire main-hand weapon unless I find one I consider even more appropriate for plot reasons.

[Cikomyr]

You can replace all its parts--at least, you can if you're a subscriber. I don't know if crafted hilts, mods, and enhancements are off-limits for free-to-play players. After the starting planet, I never replace my entire main-hand weapon unless I find one I consider even more appropriate for plot reasons.

Where do i purchase replacement parts?

[Hunter Noventa]

You can replace all its parts--at least, you can if you're a subscriber. I don't know if crafted hilts, mods, and enhancements are off-limits for free-to-play players. After the starting planet, I never replace my entire main-hand weapon unless I find one I consider even more appropriate for plot reasons.

Free and Preferred players can use anything but purple/artifact quality mods, you need an 'authorization' for those. Though if you're coming back and had them before, you can still use them, luckily.

[Peelee]

Where do i purchase replacement parts?

I can give you some, if you want.

[Anteros]

It wasnt. Trust me, i would have picked that up.

You're right that it wasn't explained there, but it should be made clear fairly soon.

[MCerberus]

Didn't they turn the old planetary commendation part of the fleet into a series of mod vendors for low level characters?

[Anteros]

Didn't they turn the old planetary commendation part of the fleet into a series of mod vendors for low level characters?

Yes, but my experience is that it tends to lag behind your other equipment anyway and it's mostly pointless.

[MCerberus]

Yes, but my experience is that it tends to lag behind your other equipment anyway and it's mostly pointless.

Yah, it's not a parade of free blues and modabble gear like it used to be, but having credit-purchasable green mods helps.

[Cikomyr]

Taris ended.. okay. Except for the adversary. I have to say, Watcher 1 was a hell of an opponent. I never saw coming the misdirection trick.

When he set me up for a "hahaha, go save that village while i run away" i decided to not play his game anymore, and let the village die to catch him. We cant let these sort of villain set up innocents to die in the hope to get an advantage over us. This is war, not superheroe comics.

All in all, it was a pleasure to beat him.

Nar Shadda was beautiful. And infuriating with the orientation XD

The plot was really fun. I loved the stort about the super-cybernized Republic soldiers. Poor Agent Galen, i hope I see him again.

The Power Guard project is now a live secret between me and the General ^_^

[Anteros]

Taris ended.. okay. Except for the adversary. I have to say, Watcher 1 was a hell of an opponent. I never saw coming the misdirection trick.

When he set me up for a "hahaha, go save that village while i run away" i decided to not play his game anymore, and let the village die to catch him. We cant let these sort of villain set up innocents to die in the hope to get an advantage over us. This is war, not superheroe comics.

All in all, it was a pleasure to beat him.

Nar Shadda was beautiful. And infuriating with the orientation XD

The plot was really fun. I loved the stort about the super-cybernized Republic soldiers. Poor Agent Galen, i hope I see him again.

The Power Guard project is now a live secret between me and the General ^_^

Funnily enough, he didn't point that Sith at that village. The Sith was going to be there anyway. He was just giving you the opportunity to stop them. I'm curious if you let him live or not.

[Cikomyr]

Funnily enough, he didn't point that Sith at that village. The Sith was going to be there anyway. He was just giving you the opportunity to stop them. I'm curious if you let him live or not.

I gave him the opportunity to surrender as a POW, but I wasn't going to let him get away. He was waaaaay too dangerous.

[LadyMeyers]

Free and Preferred players can use anything but purple/artifact quality mods, you need an 'authorization' for those. Though if you're coming back and had them before, you can still use them, luckily.

Free and Preferred players can use any "previously authorized" gear. So if you have purple gear equipped when your sub lapses, those items are still fair game. Any purple gear in your inventory (your actually carried inventory, not your ship cargo hold or legacy cargo hold) is also considered "previously authorized."

[Cikomyr]

So i can upgrade my main weapon to keep up. Thanks :)

My offhand weapon still lags terribly. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much would i regret buying Rise of the Hutt Cartel just to remove this stupid bug?

[Hunter Noventa]

So i can upgrade my main weapon to keep up. Thanks :)

My offhand weapon still lags terribly. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much would i regret buying Rise of the Hutt Cartel just to remove this stupid bug?

I'm pretty sure that a month of Subscription gets you ALL the content, not just Rise of the Hutt Cartel. At least I don't think you have to buy that separately anymore. So it's probably quite worth it.

[Cristo Meyers]

I'm pretty sure that a month of Subscription gets you ALL the content, not just Rise of the Hutt Cartel. At least I don't think you have to buy that separately anymore. So it's probably quite worth it.

Yes. If you're looking to get Rise of the Hutt Cartel and beyond, go ahead and subscribe. It'll cost about the same in the end and you'll get access to everything.

I think that you'd have to finish it before the subscription lapses for it to stay unlocked when your subscription time is up, but I'm not sure. That's what we were hearing back when we first subscribed and did Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne. But since we actually bought the Hutt Cartel and Reven expansions, it was a moot point.

[Cikomyr]

Yes. If you're looking to get Rise of the Hutt Cartel and beyond, go ahead and subscribe. It'll cost about the same in the end and you'll get access to everything.

I think that you'd have to finish it before the subscription lapses for it to stay unlocked when your subscription time is up, but I'm not sure. That's what we were hearing back when we first subscribed and did Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne. But since we actually bought the Hutt Cartel and Reven expansions, it was a moot point.

I would have to finish Hutt Cartel for the gear i am gettig to stay unlocked?

[Calemyr]

I would have to finish Hutt Cartel for the gear i am gettig to stay unlocked?

I don't think so. There's an unlock that allows you to use purple items. You automatically have the unlock while a subscriber, and you can buy the unlock with cartel coins (the cash currency) to have it permanently unlocked - either for one person or for your entire account depending on how much you want to spend. I think it's something like 250 for one character and 1200 for the whole account. The game has kind of a frustrating setup like that, with even some of the most basic features locked behind a cash unlock unless you're subscribed. However, the things you unlock (if you do an account unlock) stay unlocked, and you get 500 coins per month while subscribed, so eventually you can just unlock the things that matter to you and enjoy the game without the subscription fee. It's kind of a weird way of doing it - you can either play the full game as a subscription or buy it piecemeal.

One thing that's nice is that any expansions that are out when you're a subscriber stay unlocked even after quitting the subscription. So subscribing for a month gives you everything, expansion-wise. At least that's how I understand it. I had already won the Eternal Throne storyline, so I can't test it myself.

Okay, did a quick search and confirmed it (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=867081). You don't lose access to the expansions when you leave the subscription. They're banking on the other features (more XP, no currency cap, all features unlocked, 500 bonus coins per month, etc) to keep people subscribed. It's just that the game isn't all-or-nothing.

[Cikomyr]

Thanks!!

So i hit my first wall on Alderaan..

"Hey Knight! You can continue the story either on Tatooine or on Alderaan"

Me (lvl 22): oh Alderaan sounds fun!

[Meets the first lvl 29 mob. Cant scratch him. Run away]

Oooooohh.. i maybe should have checked the planet level.. off to Tatooine!

[One overall interesting planet but with really annoying Sand People later]

Level 25 me: all right, i am in Alderaan.. maybe i need to try these fancy "planetary mission" if i want to gain more experience...

I really liked the Organa Questline, except the part you hand over yourself as prisoner. That was waaaaaaaay too easily resolved to my taste. There should have been more consequences..

Hey! I died for the first time against a Thule Siege Droid 4 levels higher than me. Yaaaay!!

[Hunter Noventa]

The other thing you should do, if you haven't, is get the two-factor authentication app for your phone. Aside from making your account safer, you get free CC every month you have it, even if you're not playing the game. I came back to a little over 5k in CC when i came back thanks to that recently.

[Cristo Meyers]

I would have to finish Hutt Cartel for the gear i am gettig to stay unlocked?

No. Gear's a little odd. LadyMeyers explained it a bit above.

Subscribers can use anything, but Free and Preferred can't use Artifact level equipment (purple and gold border). But anything a Subscriber has already equipped when the subscription lapses remains useable. So anything you've got equipped while you're still a Subscriber will still be useable by that character.

Alderaan to me was always a massive pain in the neck: slow loading times, long travel times, big bugs...

[Cikomyr]

The other thing you should do, if you haven't, is get the two-factor authentication app for your phone. Aside from making your account safer, you get free CC every month you have it, even if you're not playing the game. I came back to a little over 5k in CC when i came back thanks to that recently.

Even for FTP or Preferred?

[Cristo Meyers]

Even for FTP or Preferred?

Yes. It's 100 coins a month just for using the Security Key App.

[Hunter Noventa]

Even for FTP or Preferred?

Correct. I hadn't played in years and came back to a ton of CC. As long as your account is secured by the app, you get free CC every month.

[Calemyr]

Alderaan to me was always a massive pain in the neck: slow loading times, long travel times, big bugs...

Yeah, I don't think I've found a story there that I actually liked. A few moments here and there, but every story hits a brick wall of obstructive nobles, huge stretches of nothing interesting, and the Killiks aren't a particularly fun local specialty (I'll take the Voss over them any day). I hear the Inquisitor gets the opportunity to troll the nobility a good bit, so I have that to look forward to.

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's favorite story segment? I think mine has to be a light-side Sith Warrior recruiting Jaesa. You just own Master Karr repeatedly, pointing out that, besides being a superior fighter, you're a significantly more compassionate and merciful person than Karr will ever be. Having Jaesa walk in and use her powers to prove it just drives it home even more.

Even if you ignore the fact that you can claim the day just by being a better person than you're supposedly heroic adversary, it brings to point a detail about SWTOR that really interests me: The Sith and Jedi philosophies aren't as grounded in the light and dark sides of the force as everyone assumes they are. The Jedi seem to think that anything they do is light-side because they're the ones doing it, while the final obsession of the Sith is personal freedom. A Sith can be a freaking saint and still follow the Sith Code, simply because they're doing what they want to - even if that includes honoring deals and shouldering burdens others are ill equipped for. You need the power to overcome any obstacles to your goal, yes. The Sith believe that power is the key to freedom. But how you apply that power is up to you as long as you have enough.

I mean, certainly their cultures are set up to put a thumb on the scales of morality, but the codes themselves aren't actually about being good or evil, light or dark. It makes the setting so much richer for that complication, I feel.

[Hunter Noventa]

Yeah, I don't think I've found a story there that I actually liked. A few moments here and there, but every story hits a brick wall of obstructive nobles, huge stretches of nothing interesting, and the Killiks aren't a particularly fun local specialty (I'll take the Voss over them any day). I hear the Inquisitor gets the opportunity to troll the nobility a good bit, so I have that to look forward to.

I know the Bounty Hunter has the chance to just outright punch some jerk in the face on Alderaan. It feels good.

[Cristo Meyers]

For me it was the Bounty Hunter ending:

This Jedi with a Javert-sized chip on his shoulder has been hounding me across the galaxy, ordered the murder of multiple people, framed me for a list of crimes I didn't commit, and has basically made it his personal mission to destroy me based off of nothing more than his injured pride?

Oh hell yes I took every opportunity to kick that idiot while he was down, personally spit in his face, and then point out that his own hubris just delivered my target right to my door just before he died.

And then, when the time came to take out the Chancellor, I refused and killed Darth Tormen instead. Just so I could flip the bird to that Jedi's memory one last time.

Though in terms of funny moments:

After you duel your rival on Corellia in the Sith Ultimate Duel of Ultimate Peril and Death and he runs away, your Imperial Admiral ally sends you an email that just states "He ran AWAY?" in the subject line. The incredulity is just dripping off of it and had us both laughing out loud.


I know the Bounty Hunter has the chance to just outright punch some jerk in the face on Alderaan. It feels good.

Punch? Hell, you can just casually shoot another.

"Hunter, dispose of this idiot!"
*looks over, shrugs*
"They're your credits."
*BLAM!*

Callous, sure, but honestly kinda darkly funny.

[Cikomyr]

SFDebris's latest video of the Sith Inquisitor had one of the best line I've seen:


You are sent to rescue a Sith apprentice by his father; the local Imperial Commander.

When you arrive at his cell, the Sith is very insulting and arrogant. If you taunt him sufficiently, he breaks out by himself and tries to kill you. You kill him.

Going back to his father, who just snaps. "YOU KILLED MY SON! ADMIT YOU ENJOYED KILLING HIM!!"

The Inquisitor's answer can be: "I admit I've had better"

Man, that is cold

[Calemyr]

For me it was the Bounty Hunter ending:

This Jedi with a Javert-sized chip on his shoulder has been hounding me across the galaxy, ordered the murder of multiple people, framed me for a list of crimes I didn't commit, and has basically made it his personal mission to destroy me based off of nothing more than his injured pride?

Oh hell yes I took every opportunity to kick that idiot while he was down, personally spit in his face, and then point out that his own hubris just delivered my target right to my door just before he died.

And then, when the time came to take out the Chancellor, I refused and killed Darth Tormen instead. Just so I could flip the bird to that Jedi's memory one last time.

Punch? Hell, I shot the idiot.

"Hunter, dispose of this idiot!"
*looks over, shrugs*
"They're your credits."
*BLAM!*

Callous, sure, but honestly kinda darkly funny.

Well, I guess I know who's getting the 3rd Act cleanup once my Smuggler's done. Unfortunately, my Smuggler was my first character from the first day the game turned on, which had left him woefully underlevelled and undergeared for how far he's made it. I've since fixed the gear part, at least, given that my entire Legacy is basically a trade guild, but XP is an eight ball that's hard to get out from behind of...

Of course, now that I've learned the female Bounty Hunter is voiced by Grey, I'm tempted to just drop my male Bounty Hunter and go for her. Not sure which would be a better Eternal Throne run, Female Hunter or Female Inquisitor.

[Cristo Meyers]

SFDebris's latest video of the Sith Inquisitor had one of the best line I've seen:


You are sent to rescue a Sith apprentice by his father; the local Imperial Commander.

When you arrive at his cell, the Sith is very insulting and arrogant. If you taunt him sufficiently, he breaks out by himself and tries to kill you. You kill him.

Going back to his father, who just snaps. "YOU KILLED MY SON! ADMIT YOU ENJOYED KILLING HIM!!"

The Inquisitor's answer can be: "I admit I've had better"

Man, that is cold


The Sith Inquisitor gets some beauties:

After Corellia, your rival runs to the Dark Council on Dromund Kaas to beg them to help him kill this upstart slave.

They, of course, refuse.

He starts reciting the Sith Code in a grandiose challenge.

*dialogue option: don't forget the last part*

The Inquisitor looks him in the eyes, draws their weapon, and cold states "Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free."

Gold.

There's another spot where I think the dialogue wheel has three options: Bugs... :smallannoyed:, Bugs? :smallconfused:, or BUGS! :smallbiggrin:.


Of course, now that I've learned the female Bounty Hunter is voiced by Grey, I'm tempted to just drop my male Bounty Hunter and go for her.

I've got both male and female bounty hunter, and while the male VA holds up, Grey Griffin just nails it.


Not sure which would be a better Eternal Throne run, Female Hunter or Female Inquisitor.

Bounty Hunter gets a couple of reunion scenes an Inquisitor doesn't. Especially if you romanced Torian.

[huttj509]

I found the Imperial Agent ending I took really satisfying.

You guys are jerks, and you guys are jerks, and you guys are real jerks. I'm gonna disappear now, and occasionally enemies of the Empire will as well. BYYYYYYYE!

[Hunter Noventa]

I think the only VA for the game I really don't like is the Male Consular. Yes it's Nolan North, but it's Nolan North sounding incredibly bored out of his skull. I'll admit to not trying Male Trooper, considering Female Trooper is FemShep, and that's hard to beat.

[huttj509]

Huh...so I know I finished the initial story for the IA. I'm level 50, and the game says my class mission is on Tatooine? I think something hiccupped over the last 6 years.

[Cikomyr]

I think the only VA for the game I really don't like is the Male Consular. Yes it's Nolan North, but it's Nolan North sounding incredibly bored out of his skull. I'll admit to not trying Male Trooper, considering Female Trooper is FemShep, and that's hard to beat.

Speaking of which, heres what i expect, in the order of play

Knight - Male
Agent - Female
Trooper - Female
Inquisitor - Female
Bounty Hunter - Male
Consular - Female
Warrior - Male
Smuggler - Male

Appropriate? Any solid VA i would be missing out on?

[Hunter Noventa]

Speaking of which, heres what i expect, in the order of play

Knight - Male
Agent - Female
Trooper - Female
Inquisitor - Female
Bounty Hunter - Male
Consular - Female
Warrior - Male
Smuggler - Male

Appropriate? Any solid VA i would be missing out on?

Haven't played a male knight or warrior either come to think of it, so I can't comment there. Male Bounty Hunter is good, about what you'd expect. Both Inquisitors are pretty solid and snarky. Female Agent is superior in my opinion. Both smuggler VAs are decent enough.

I think the ones I liked the least of what I heard were the Male Consular and Male Agent.

[Cristo Meyers]

I think the only VA for the game I really don't like is the Male Consular. Yes it's Nolan North, but it's Nolan North sounding incredibly bored out of his skull. I'll admit to not trying Male Trooper, considering Female Trooper is FemShep, and that's hard to beat.

Male Trooper is Brian Bloom/Varric.


Speaking of which, heres what i expect, in the order of play

Knight - Male
Agent - Female
Trooper - Female
Inquisitor - Female
Bounty Hunter - Male
Consular - Female
Warrior - Male
Smuggler - Male

Appropriate? Any solid VA i would be missing out on?

I preferred the male inquisitor over the female, but it's more 'what kind of snark do you like?' The male hams up a little more, but the female has the low, cool snark in her voice.

Female bounty hunter over male, same with the smuggler, but those are judgment calls. I can see why someone would prefer either one.

[huttj509]

Are there any suggested guides for "here's the abilities you have, here's what they do, here's what you want on your bar, and how to use them" guides that are easily readable by someone who's jumping back in at level 50 and is feeling overwhelmed with his virulence sniper's smorgasboard of abilities?

[Kish]

I would strongly recommend a female Inquisitor over a male one, both for the voice actor and for the romance interest.

All your picks look good to me.

[The Glyphstone]

Pity I lost my authenticator when I stopped playing years ago. That account is probably permanently lost to me.

[Calemyr]

The characters I've played:
Smuggler - Cyborg Male (Mainly because I like Risha. And adore smartasses.)
Trooper - Mirialan Female (Is there an option?) (Never got too far with her because the Trooper story doesn't engage me)
Jedi Consular - Miraluka Male (Suited to a stock character of mine)
Jedi Knight* - Human Male (Because my hero has to be the most generic thing possible, I guess)
Sith Warrior* - Sith Male (I liked Vette)
Imperial Agent* - Cyborg Male (Because James Bond)
Bounty Hunter - Rattataki Male (On a whim)

Upcoming:
Sith Inquisitor - Uncertain gender (Female if my Throne character, otherwise male). Probably Twi'lek for maximum slaveness.
Bounty Hunter - Female, still trying to determine race. Chiss for the unlock or Cathar for the predatory vibe.



Speaking of which, heres what i expect, in the order of play

Knight - Male
Agent - Female
Trooper - Female
Inquisitor - Female
Bounty Hunter - Male
Consular - Female
Warrior - Male
Smuggler - Male

Appropriate? Any solid VA i would be missing out on?

As we've been discussing, a female bounty hunter probably has the better voice. Grey DeLisle Griffin is a master of the low, menacing purr (proven by Viconia and Azula), which is a treat.

Other than that, I think you're pretty golden. Male Consular isn't great, partly because Nolan North doesn't sell it and partly because the LI is causes trouble on a few fronts (being a late arrival and having such a disparity between her and the Consular). Inquisitor and Smuggler have excellent voices on both sides, though I think Risha is more engaging than Corso. For my part, I liked Vette and Kira as LIs, so male works well for Warrior and Knight. If you're going to play Trooper, female's the way to go because she's voiced by Jennifer Hale.

[Cristo Meyers]

The characters I've played:
Bounty Hunter - Female, still trying to determine race. Chiss for the unlock or Cathar for the predatory vibe.

My male Bounty Hunter is a Cathar, and the missed opportunities are numerous. Admittedly, Cathar were added after the base game was complete so doing much other than a re-skin probably was never in the cards, but having a Cathar bounty hunter surrounded by Mandalorians? Come on, that needs some exploring.

Though this is coming from someone who's also running a Cathar female Sith Inquisitor, just so I can see this petite, grey-furred catgirl utter the line "I'm not cute, I'm deadly."

[Calemyr]

My male Bounty Hunter is a Cathar, and the missed opportunities are numerous. Admittedly, Cathar were added after the base game was complete so doing much other than a re-skin probably was never in the cards, but having a Cathar bounty hunter surrounded by Mandalorians? Come on, that needs some exploring.

Though this is coming from someone who's also running a Cathar female Sith Inquisitor, just so I can see this petite, grey-furred catgirl utter the line "I'm not cute, I'm deadly."

Oh... wow. That alone would be worth the effort. But doesn't SI include a segment regarding Cathar slaves? Pity being a Cathar can't play a role in that.

But, yeah, I know there won't be any racial touches if I play the Hunter as Cathar. Not that there's a lot of that, anyway. Just a couple lines throughout the campaign. But, as I described it already, Grey is good for the "low, menacing purr", which seems perfect for a Cathar.

[Cristo Meyers]

Oh... wow. That alone would be worth the effort. But doesn't SI include a segment regarding Cathar slaves? Pity being a Cathar can't play a role in that.

Honestly, I can't remember. The last time I did Sith Inquisitor was the Dark vs Light event. That has to have been a year ago now.


But, yeah, I know there won't be any racial touches if I play the Hunter as Cathar. Not that there's a lot of that, anyway. Just a couple lines throughout the campaign. But, as I described it already, Grey is good for the "low, menacing purr", which seems perfect for a Cathar.

It would also make the class storyline for Balmorra more entertaining.

[Cikomyr]

I think its an issue that Bethesda and Bioware have; goddamn esthetic races. Races that have almost no bearing whatsoever on the plot, the discussions and the choices you make. Except for a few random moments where your race is merely paid lip service.

Skyrim and TOR would be much richer experiences (and much more prone to replayability) if you had materially different outcome and discussions choices because of your race (and your class for Planetary missions).

Nobody would mind playing the Organa quest 4 times if there was 4 different outcome based on the choices taken, for example. It doesnt even need to be a 100% different questline; just have one point of divergence at specific moments, meant to make you feel different and playing your story.

Dragon Age Origins was by far the best game to allow such tailoring of stories. You could make decisions in relevant locations based on your background and species.


The moment Skyrim broke for me was when, upond entering Windholm, two rascists verbally attack a Dark Elf. I watch this, and then a bystander turns to me and ask "and you, what do you think of that?"

I'M A DARK ELF YOUR DUMBASS

[Hunter Noventa]

Pity I lost my authenticator when I stopped playing years ago. That account is probably permanently lost to me.

If you still know your account name and password, you can get a one-time code via email to get into your account and de-couple the authenticator. I had to do that because the auth app on my old phone was years out of date and I had to update to the new one that works differently.

[Honest Tiefling]

The moment Skyrim broke for me was when, upond entering Windholm, two rascists verbally attack a Dark Elf. I watch this, and then a bystander turns to me and ask "and you, what do you think of that?"

I'M A DARK ELF YOUR DUMBASS

"Khajit aren't allowed in this city!"

"Oh, I have an important message. Really."

"Oh, well that's okay then. Did you know I took an arrow to the knee?"

I think the SF Debris video where an NPC complimented organs that the player character didn't have was also a good example of this.

[Calemyr]

I think its an issue that Bethesda and Bioware have; goddamn esthetic races. Races that have almost no bearing whatsoever on the plot, the discussions and the choices you make. Except for a few random moments where your race is merely paid lip service.

Skyrim and TOR would be much richer experiences (and much more prone to replayability) if you had materially different outcome and discussions choices because of your race (and your class for Planetary missions).

Nobody would mind playing the Organa quest 4 times if there was 4 different outcome based on the choices taken, for example. It doesnt even need to be a 100% different questline; just have one point of divergence at specific moments, meant to make you feel different and playing your story.

Dragon Age Origins was by far the best game to allow such tailoring of stories. You could make decisions in relevant locations based on your background and species.


The moment Skyrim broke for me was when, upond entering Windholm, two rascists verbally attack a Dark Elf. I watch this, and then a bystander turns to me and ask "and you, what do you think of that?"

I'M A DARK ELF YOUR DUMBASS

True. In fairness, though, they do something to consider race by which races are allowed into which class. The only way a Twi'lek is going to be a main character in the Empire is as the Inquisitor, who is by definition a slave that only gets anywhere through sheer power, guile, and tenacity. Miraluka are only interested in being Jedi, Chiss only work as non-sensitive Imperials, that kind of thing. To play a race in an environment they're not qualified for, you have to play one to level 50 in a suitable class first. Cathar and Togruta are open to everything, of course, because they're purchased races. I don't think having a significant racial aspect to the game would have added to it, though. A couple Easter egg lines for appropriate circumstances is probably the best balance of cost and benefit.

Bethesda, on the other hand, tends to lose when they hardcode races due to their usually open policy on modding. Oblivion showed where that leads, since any custom race (including a copy of an existing race with more features) tends to break the game as the prisoner that mocks you at the beginning can't find the right words to burn you. You need a mod specifically to provide reactions to custom races at a few points. I mean, they could do it, but it wouldn't be worth the extra writing and recording to pull it off.

[LadyMeyers]

I would have to finish Hutt Cartel for the gear i am gettig to stay unlocked?

Last I knew, the "finish to keep it unlocked" thing only applied to Chapters in Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne. Any chapter you hadn't fully completed during a valid subscription got re-locked when the account went back to Preferred, but any chapter you'd played through start to finish with one character was available to all of your characters when they reached it post subscription.

What I don't know is if that's still the case or not though. This might have changed since we were at that point.

And gear has never really been a part of that. Gear is gear. If you have it equipped when your subscription lapses, it's still yours and can be used as normal. However, any new gear or mission rewards that is locked to Preferred Players will be locked from the date your sub lapses forward.

[Cikomyr]

True. In fairness, though, they do something to consider race by which races are allowed into which class. The only way a Twi'lek is going to be a main character in the Empire is as the Inquisitor, who is by definition a slave that only gets anywhere through sheer power, guile, and tenacity. Miraluka are only interested in being Jedi, Chiss only work as non-sensitive Imperials, that kind of thing. To play a race in an environment they're not qualified for, you have to play one to level 50 in a suitable class first. Cathar and Togruta are open to everything, of course, because they're purchased races. I don't think having a significant racial aspect to the game would have added to it, though. A couple Easter egg lines for appropriate circumstances is probably the best balance of cost and benefit.


Oh, i agree that players who want to break the game by playing innappropriate race shouldn't get their "special story". I am not expecting the game to comment on me modding a Human in my Dwarf Noble backstory.

But actual, legitimate specie? Come on, put some thoughts into it, Bioware. It will increase replayability, i promise.


Bethesda, on the other hand, tends to lose when they hardcode races due to their usually open policy on modding. Oblivion showed where that leads, since any custom race (including a copy of an existing race with more features) tends to break the game as the prisoner that mocks you at the beginning can't find the right words to burn you. You need a mod specifically to provide reactions to custom races at a few points. I mean, they could do it, but it wouldn't be worth the extra writing and recording to pull it off.

Maybe if they had more work put in race-appropriate encounters, their Race Hardcoding could be easier.

Either that, or just set a default "generic" reaction and then have the special circumstances only trigger when your race has a flag. That way, custom modded races would just default to the generic gameplay.

Sigh. I am of the opinion that less options are a good thing if you make it worth the while for each. I prefer 3 diverse and rich backgrounds over 8 generic ones. Hence Dragon Age Origins being an awesospectacular game.

[Hunter Noventa]

Last I knew, the "finish to keep it unlocked" thing only applied to Chapters in Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne. Any chapter you hadn't fully completed during a valid subscription got re-locked when the account went back to Preferred, but any chapter you'd played through start to finish with one character was available to all of your characters when they reached it post subscription.


They've definitely changed that, I'm not subscribed at the moment (well i am but I'm not, I used a referral code for 7 days of sub status) but I was able to play several chapters that came out after I stopped paying, but I just hit the 'pay us' wall, So i'm not sure what the actual deal is with that.

I'll probably pony up for a month of sub to finish it all off tonight. Pay tonight that is, I doubt i could play all the content involved in one night.

[Cikomyr]

A few updates:

- the Alderaan throne room is absolutely majestic. Man, that was awesome to walk in.
- the end of Act 1 is a tad rushed to my taste. There wasn't any.. great.. buildup. In my opinion.
- Okay. The music blaring when i walk on the Republic medical ship really, really put me in the mood to fight that battle
- Hey, disposable world #1 that i never heard about and dont care!
- The ambiance storming Darth Evilus' ship was fantastic. They are really nailing the ambiance thing in this game.

Aaaaand Darth Evilus kicked my ass. Damn. Should have noticed he was 4 levels higher than me...

Luckily, i was near leveling up. So i took a Major Experience booster and went rampaging on his ship to grind a lvl up. Beat Darth Evilus, yheaaaaaa!!!

...I HAVE TO FIGHT KIRA? CANT YOU LET ME HEAL FIRST?

...ok.. dying twice in a row is unfair. Dude. You could have at least allowed me to reset the Medpack ticker.

[Cikomyr]

Hey guys! Why didnt you tell me i could just purchase all moddable gear and ride it forever with upgrades?! I feel betrayed by you

/Ignores all post that told him to upgrade stuff

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oh yeah, modding the gear is what you want to do, just find one you like the look of, and every so often go and buy the enhancements and mods you want for them!

[Mechalich]

Oh yeah, modding the gear is what you want to do, just find one you like the look of, and every so often go and buy the enhancements and mods you want for them!

This is not really true.

In the current circumstance (meaning post 5.0), while leveling you should gear by doing heroics or the occasional flashpoint to get high-end blue/purple gear for your level. Yes there will be overlap and you won't always get what you want but it will be sufficient. Heroics drop level-scaled gear, which means you can go back and do easy ones from the Starter Planets, Coruscant or Dromund Kaas in order to gear up as needed if you find the ones on your current planet too difficult or time consuming (there is considerable variation). A good mid-leveling source of gear is doing the scripted flashpoints of Taral V/Maelstorm Prison or Boarding Party/The Foundry on story mode (which are impossible to lose because of the 'Jesus Droid'), they also provide copious XP. Post level 50 the various scripted flashpoints (again, impossible to lose) and story chapters will provide you will all the gear you'll need.

As for moddable gear, you don't want to be constantly swapping pieces in and out of gear, because this is hideously expensive over the long term. End game mods cost 15000-20000 credits to remove from a gear piece. Instead, you want to pick a set of gear you like and make it Outfit 1 in the outfit designer for your look and continually swap out better pieces of gear as you acquire them. There is no need for the gear the producers your character's appearance to be any of the gear that you wear for stats.

Generally you should never buy any gear for the stats in the current iteration of SWTOR. You should be receiving it from quest rewards or, once level 70 from command crates and component exchanges.


Aaaaand Darth Evilus kicked my ass. Damn. Should have noticed he was 4 levels higher than me...

If enemies are higher level than you at pretty much any point in the game, you probably haven't been leveling up enough. Generally a good benchmark is that you want to be at the upper end of a planet's suggested level range when you first arrive there. It is most efficient to smash out a few extra levels at the very beginning of the game - because enemy HP is so low that everything dies really quickly. Doing early heroics really helps - as a Republic player you have the advantage that the four Coruscant heroics are trivially easy and can be blitzed at high speed (the Dromund Kaas ones are both more difficult and take longer).

[Kesnit]

In the current circumstance (meaning post 5.0), while leveling you should gear by doing heroics or the occasional flashpoint to get high-end blue/purple gear for your level. Yes there will be overlap and you won't always get what you want but it will be sufficient.

Relying on drops means you are at the mercy of the RNG. I've been trying to get gear for my LVL 59 BH using Heroics. I've gotten so many earpieces, bracers, and belts. A few pairs of pants, one pair of boots. No chest, even after doing every heroic on Korriban, Hutta, and Dromand Kass. I also haven't seen any drops of weapon or off-hand from the loot boxes.

[Anteros]

The main planet quests give a ton of exp and they're usually trivial to do as they're in the same area as the class quests. If you find yourself falling behind on exp I'd just do a few of those.

[Spore]

Relying on drops means you are at the mercy of the RNG.

Usually there is always that ONE slot that never drops. You have a complete set of shiny gear (just don't assume you get everything in three runs) but you lack that one headpiece or trinket or whatever.

Back when I mained my Gunslinger and prepped her for raids I think the earpiece was the one thing missing. But funnily enough I was completely geared after two normal mode operations since there only was ONE other smuggler and he was already decked out.

[Cikomyr]

If enemies are higher level than you at pretty much any point in the game, you probably haven't been leveling up enough. Generally a good benchmark is that you want to be at the upper end of a planet's suggested level range when you first arrive there. It is most efficient to smash out a few extra levels at the very beginning of the game - because enemy HP is so low that everything dies really quickly. Doing early heroics really helps - as a Republic player you have the advantage that the four Coruscant heroics are trivially easy and can be blitzed at high speed (the Dromund Kaas ones are both more difficult and take longer).

Well, a FTP subscription gets gimped on the experience gain. There are the Experience Boosters made available to compensate, but most of the time, i am at the low-end of any planetary level scale when I first get there, and its not rare that I am 2-3 levels under the minimum level for that planet. Its the only moment when i accept to grind.

I understand that "just repeat the same missions" is a valid strategy, but i didnt picked up TOR for a repetitive experience; I want to follow the story. I appreciate the advice however, and if i am ever really stuck, i will probably follow it.


Back to the story!

Hmm.. i get a Deus Ex Machina to start the mission. I suppose its acceptable to kick off a plot; not to resolve it. So Ghost Adoptive Father tells me to help a jedi agent on Tatooine, lets go!

Jesus. I hate the amount of backtracking they had me do.

Finish Act 1 --> on Tython
Go to your ship Holochron
Go to Tatooine
Get back to Tython

Couldnt they have gave me the super-secret briefing on my next planetary assignment? Instead of making me travel to Tython *again*?

Anyway. Its the super-duper-massively secret Operation for a decapitation strike again the Empery. Yayyy for initiative guys!!

Aaaand the immersion is lost the moment i stepped on Balmorra. The local Jedi knows about the end goal of the operation. Operational security doesnt rhyme with Jedi apparently.

[Cristo Meyers]

I understand that "just repeat the same missions" is a valid strategy, but i didnt picked up TOR for a repetitive experience; I want to follow the story. I appreciate the advice however, and if i am ever really stuck, i will probably follow it.

They aren't all bad. Sometimes you have to go somewhere and kill something, other times you have to get bit by a rakghoul because they don't have the virus in a syringe.

And they do tend to cluster around wherever you're going. It's not often you've got to go ranging to opposite ends of the map just to collect your 20 bear hides.

[LadyMeyers]

They aren't all bad. Sometimes you have to go somewhere and kill something, other times you have to get bit by a rakghoul because they don't have the virus in a syringe.

And they do tend to cluster around wherever you're going. It's not often you've got to go ranging to opposite ends of the map just to collect your 20 bear hides.

That, and sometimes it really is as easy as kill the things you're there to kill anyway (or have a bonus for killing).

And I'll point out that while you can do the same generic side mission, the character does retain their own personality so what a smuggler says to Random Quest Giver X may vary some from a Jedi knight.

Your other option is to do some of the space missions on your ship. They give a fair bit of experience and the low level ones are easy (and take about 5 to 7 minutes to complete each). For those, it doesn't matter what level you are beyond 'can you equip the ship parts?' The ship equipment is level specific, but they aren't super high as I recall.



Jesus. I hate the amount of backtracking they had me do.

Finish Act 1 --> on Tython
Go to your ship Holochron
Go to Tatooine
Get back to Tython

Couldnt they have gave me the super-secret briefing on my next planetary assignment? Instead of making me travel to Tython *again*?

Wait until you play the Sith Inquisitor, and you need to go back to Korriban over and over just to check in with one guy and leave.

[Peelee]

They should really make some sort of holo network or something. Something that let's you talk across vast distances so you don't need to fly back to the planet all the time when there's no reason to physically be there.

[Cikomyr]

They should really make some sort of holo network or something. Something that let's you talk across vast distances so you don't need to fly back to the planet all the time when there's no reason to physically be there.

Nah. Just have me sent to a secret war meeting on Balmorra to brief me *there* already.

Or on Tatooine even.

[Cristo Meyers]

They aren't all bad. Sometimes you have to go somewhere and kill something, other times you have to get bit by a rakghoul because they don't have the virus in a syringe.

Forgot to mention that you can turn on 'Show Exploration Missions' on the map screen. For some reason that one isn't on by default, and it will display a bunch of new minor missions.

[Mechalich]

They should really make some sort of holo network or something. Something that let's you talk across vast distances so you don't need to fly back to the planet all the time when there's no reason to physically be there.

Once you get past Makeb, and especially when you get to KOTFE/KOTET, this is largely how things work, and Lana and Theron are calling the Outlander constantly to chat about all sorts of things and the story will arbitrarily move your character from place to place as you proceed through events.

Many players complain about this and the 'on rails' nature of that part of the story. All the flying around serves to preserve an illusion of free choice as to what to do - and there actually are a few points in the story where you are offered the opportunity to go back to earlier locations if you wish - notably the Alderaan and Hoth bonus series - outside of a strictly linear progression.

[Spore]

Free choice? You can't tell a compelling space opera without a linear plot. It's like trying to make Skyrim dramatic. As for the latest two story expansions: Are they finished story-wise? So would subbing an older account give me that?

Is there a satisfying conclusion to the Emperor's storyline yet? (Maybe just put yes or no in a spoiler tag for this)

[Kish]

I would also like to request that people not post unshielded things that are spoilers for the thread-starter.

Yes.

[Cristo Meyers]

Free choice? You can't tell a compelling space opera without a linear plot. It's like trying to make Skyrim dramatic. As for the latest two story expansions: Are they finished story-wise? So would subbing an older account give me that?

Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne are a complete story, yes. Subbing gives you access to the whole set.

And they're saying that the next major expansion, 6.0, is supposed to bring the story back to the Empire/Republic war.


Is there a satisfying conclusion to the Emperor's storyline yet? (Maybe just put yes or no in a spoiler tag for this)

Yes, with a 'but'.

[LadyMeyers]

Free choice? You can't tell a compelling space opera without a linear plot. It's like trying to make Skyrim dramatic. As for the latest two story expansions: Are they finished story-wise? So would subbing an older account give me that?

Is there a satisfying conclusion to the Emperor's storyline yet? (Maybe just put yes or no in a spoiler tag for this)

I would also point out that the look and feel change at the start of Fallen Empire. Your character has a lot less voiced lines in favor of the old KotOR dialogue choices. YMMV on whether that's for the better or not, but it is a pretty drastic difference. At first, we thought something was wrong or bugged.

The story is complete, but you're no longer treated as the smuggler or the Jedi or the Sith or whatever you were before. You are the Outlander.

Please note: you also lose all the companions you had in the original game through Revan at the start of Fallen Empire.

[Mechalich]

And they're saying that the next major expansion, 6.0, is supposed to bring the story back to the Empire/Republic war.

One hopes that the next expansion will also bring about the ultimate conclusion to the story (or conclusions, with a canon/non-canon light/dark split as is common in Star Wars games), since the game is not in any position to sustain another expansion after this one. Whatever we do get is pretty much going to be it.

[Cristo Meyers]

One hopes that the next expansion will also bring about the ultimate conclusion to the story (or conclusions, with a canon/non-canon light/dark split as is common in Star Wars games), since the game is not in any position to sustain another expansion after this one. Whatever we do get is pretty much going to be it.

Yeah. There were rumblings about the game maybe being shut down earlier this year, and frankly I think they'll probably actually do that within the next two years or so.

The game had a good run, but I don't think there's enough there anymore. They're caught in the spiral of not getting enough money, so they can't meet player demands, so they get less money, and so it goes.

[Mechalich]

Yeah. There were rumblings about the game maybe being shut down earlier this year, and frankly I think they'll probably actually do that within the next two years or so.

The game had a good run, but I don't think there's enough there anymore. They're caught in the spiral of not getting enough money, so they can't meet player demands, so they get less money, and so it goes.

TOR's still a long way from being shut down - it still makes a considerable amount of money both through subscriptions and microtransactions and the player base is large enough that people can still play even the least popular aspects of the game - Galactic Starfighter - with regularity. There are still several servers running, so the consolidation cycle is far from complete. What's closer is maintenance mode - the cessation of all content development and managed events (such as PVP seasons) and just letting the game run as is. The game could run for quite some time in such a state, probably longer than most MMOs give the comparative strength of the single-player experience.

The only real scenarios for TOR being shut down in the short term are either EA developing a new Star Wars MMO - which seems unlikely and is years away in any case - or Lucasfilm pulling the license out from under them. My understanding is that EA holds the license until 2023, which means pulling the license would entail an extensive legal battle.

I'd expect TOR to enter maintenance mode sometime in 2019, but it could easily linger all the way to 2023. In many ways the overall fate of the game is dependent upon the performance of other properties, most notably Anthem, in order to infuse the parent company with cash.

[Cikomyr]

Well, Balmorra is long as crap. But then again, I lost 40 minutes trying to find my way around this bloody planet. I hate the whole canyon and broken overpass system.

Overall, it's actually pretty great. I love both the Planetary mission and the Knight storylines. That's the sort of stuff I was hoping to get when I signed up for this game. I so did NOT care about the stupid Droid Ambassador of Coruscant, you have no idea. Balmorra? It starts strong. "Please! We need your help defeating the Imperial Forces!" Awesome!

I have a new favourite character. Warren Sedoru is just awesome. I wished the Jedi Knight Mentor would have been that guy, instead of Jedi John Wayne that we got. No idea if Sedoru turns out a traitor or a good guy, but hot damn does his writing and performance reach the perfect equilibrium of Wise, Shellshocked, Trusting and still badass. The old man who has grown tired of violence, but still feels the Galaxy needs his help.

[Spore]

Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne are a complete story, yes. Subbing gives you access to the whole set.


Great. I'll guess my Imperial Agent will come out of retirement.


Yes, with a 'but'.

I figured you'd say something like that.

[Cristo Meyers]

I figured you'd say something like that.

Hey, it's hard for me to give a yes or no and still remain honest. :smalltongue:

[Kish]

I'm puzzled, Cristo. It ends with Valkorion destroyed. You've removed what was effectively a god of evil from the galaxy. Where's the "but"?

[Cristo Meyers]

I'm puzzled, Cristo. It ends with Valkorion destroyed. You've removed what was effectively a god of evil from the galaxy. Where's the "but"?

I didn't find the overall story compelling. The 'but' is that I had to go through a good 20 hours of playtime that felt largely lackluster.

Is it still a satisfying ending if you stop caring when you're halfway there?

[LadyMeyers]

I didn't find the overall story compelling. The 'but' is that I had to go through a good 20 hours of playtime that felt largely lackluster.

Is it still a satisfying ending if you stop caring when you're halfway there?

Cristo's codicil also counts for me, but we had trouble with some of the ways you got there. We didn't like Scorpio (a mandatory requirement) and couldn't envision a character who trusted her. We didn't like how centrally she featured.

There were definitely highlights, but we found some of the chapters to fall in "let's get that chapter over with" territory.

Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne also removed the ability for us to play together--which was a large part of the appeal.

Do you kill the Emperor? Yes. Is it nice to finally shut up the man who's been bothering you and talking to you constantly for 20 hours? Yes. But does getting there have its problems? Also yes. (There's even a never-ending camping trip--ugh).

[Cikomyr]

So nonody else liked Warren Sengoru? Awwww

Well, i will probably pick it up again tonight. ^_^ start of Act 2 was slow, but its getting much better. Wonder how things will end up. Obviously, its not possible that we actually defeat the Emperor..

... not in act 2

[Cristo Meyers]

So nonody else liked Warren Sengoru? Awwww

Well, i will probably pick it up again tonight. ^_^ start of Act 2 was slow, but its getting much better. Wonder how things will end up. Obviously, its not possible that we actually defeat the Emperor..

... not in act 2

More that I barely remember him. Balmorra was another planet that wasn't a favorite and Jedi Knight was the first one I went through. I do like the story there, though, just that getting around was a bit of a pain as you discovered. The Imperial side of Balmorra is also pretty good.

I do remember liking a later master quite a bit.

[The Chairman]But that is all that I will say at this time[/The Chairman]

[Spore]

Balmorra Republic side really helps to imagine the planet as a warzone. Sudoku or whatever his name is is a pretty fitting character but his writing doesn't go beyond 08/15 hardened war veteran.

In fact I rather remember the sadistic poophat of Empire officer that enjoys letting Balmoran resistance looters explode by mounting thermal detonators on fallen cyborg soldiers. Not that I remember his name. But he was just over the top, even for Empire standards.

Here it is: https://youtu.be/uIywwjMnw20?t=3m20s I remember Thorpe disliking it but I also distinctly remember another guy that wanted to make this plan a reality. Memory is a wild thing

[Mechalich]

More that I barely remember him. Balmorra was another planet that wasn't a favorite and Jedi Knight was the first one I went through. I do like the story there, though, just that getting around was a bit of a pain as you discovered. The Imperial side of Balmorra is also pretty good.


Yeah, it's been a looong time since I played through most of the class stories - especially on the Republic side. Player gravitation to the Empire pushes attention to that side if you want to do group content.

[Cristo Meyers]

Yeah, it's been a looong time since I played through most of the class stories - especially on the Republic side. Player gravitation to the Empire pushes attention to that side if you want to do group content.

Same here. My favorite characters were definitely on the Imperial side.

Jedi Knight Solid Snake was fun, but for some reason I kept coming back to the Bounty Hunter that was my second playthrough.

[Peelee]

Bounty Hunter is my most fun character to play, even if I thought the story was pretty lackluster. Also, I have this thread to thank for getting me to finally finish up the last class story and get in to the expansion packs! Just finished Shadow of Revan. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

[Calemyr]

Same here. My favorite characters were definitely on the Imperial side.

Jedi Knight Solid Snake was fun, but for some reason I kept coming back to the Bounty Hunter that was my second playthrough.

I have to agree that the Light Side Imperials are the best written. It was like they were given freedom to do something nobody had ever done before and reveled in the challenge.
"How can you be a kind, self-sacrificing soul and a Sith?"
"Quite simply, really. The Sith are about passion and freedom. You can be passionate and individualistic without being a jackass. Amazing concept, I know."

I honestly have never tried creating a dark side character for either faction ("Paragon for life, yo!"), but I imagine Dark Side Republic is somewhat similar. For it to work on the Republic side, where Dark is not the default answer, Dark needs to be seductive. It needs to have purpose - justice that the Light can't reach, lives the Light save, things like that. And once you go Dark, you realize it doesn't automatically make you a monster, so you're willing to consider it next time.

It is kind of a pity that the game never lets you go Gray. I mean, you can, it just doesn't mean anything - it's always go extreme or go home. I've found the Gray Jedi to be the most interesting of the bunch. Jolee Bindo, Kreia, Revan, Ahsoka Tano... I mean, they do give us Guss Tuno in the Knights expansions, and more Guss is always great, but it would be nice to have that be a meaningful role you can play.

As for my favorites, I have to go with Smuggler and Bounty Hunter. Which I guess makes sense, because they're the closest to naturally Gray the game provides. "I hunt people for a living, but that doesn't make me an assassin." "I view laws as a sort of bonus objective and I'm not above shooting first, but I'm still doing what I can to help sort this mess out. And, I hope, make a little profit in the process." Also, I can't help but find the Smuggler's Dirty Kick hilarious due to the sound effects and animations, not to mention the utility. I find it a fitting move to use when facing someone my character doesn't like, such as Skaavic and the Void Wolf. Just that little Malcolm Reynolds tinge of pettiness, you know?

"I'm a big, badass pirate admiral! Ha Ha Ha."
"Hi!' *Kick* "I'm the small businessman!"

That and this wonderful gem from Guss: "Only you could manage to turn taking over the underworld into a good citizenship award!"

[Anteros]

I mean, even the most light-sided sith you can make is still a homicidal mass murderer with a innocent bodycount in the hundreds if not thousands. Sure, you're not cackling gleefully as you kick puppies like the dark side sith would, but you're still super evil. You just hypocritically spout idealistic nonsense as you wipe the innocent slave blood off your boots instead of admitting to your crimes.

The whole "I'm not the monster you think I am" speeches you're always giving come off hollow when you know that your character is complicit in the slaughter of thousands. Not to mention propping up an organization that regularly destroys entire worlds.

[Calemyr]

I mean, even the most light-sided sith you can make is still a homicidal mass murderer with a innocent bodycount in the hundreds if not thousands. Sure, you're not cackling gleefully as you kick puppies like the dark side sith would, but you're still super evil. You just hypocritically spout idealistic nonsense as you wipe the innocent slave blood off your boots instead of admitting to your crimes.

Eh. I don't really agree. For one, this is a game. Every player character and every companion is a mass murderer with more blood on their hands than any real-world war criminal, from the Darkest Sith to the Lightest Jedi. And not all the blood shed by anyone is guilty.

I played a Light Warrior to up to the end of Fallen Empire and I have to say I didn't get that "super evil" tone. I had my agendas, yes, and I killed as many Sith as I did Jedi to get to a place of power. But I was allowed to honor my bargains, spare most people I didn't feel deserved death, and be kind to those I felt deserved it. I mean, you're still Sith, you're still working for the Empire, and both of these still impact your morality, but you don't have to be hypocritical to be a Light Side Sith. They comment more than once how frustrating it is to operate in the system they exist in, and how they would rather push the Empire onto a better track than betray it, much the same as a Light Side Agent does. In fact, the Inquisitor can actively claim to their companions that this is their primary objective - to amass enough power and influence to knock some sense into their Stupid Evil peers. The Bounty Hunter, on the other hand, just shrugs it off by implying that they aren't responsible for the morals of the employers, just their own actions.

Also, the General you recover in the Black Talon flashpoint says flat out that both sides are itching for a war and are racing to amass war crimes in waiting for when it goes hot. The Republic isn't any better than the Empire when it comes to their acts.

[Cristo Meyers]

Also, I can't help but find the Smuggler's Dirty Kick hilarious due to the sound effects and animations, not to mention the utility. I find it a fitting move to use when facing someone my character doesn't like, such as Skaavic and the Void Wolf. Just that little Malcolm Reynolds tinge of pettiness, you know?

"I'm a big, badass pirate admiral! Ha Ha Ha."
"Hi!' *Kick* "I'm the small businessman!"



"Special powers and hokey religions are no match for a durasteel-toed boot to the nads..."

[Calemyr]

"Special powers and hokey religions are no match for a durasteel-toed boot to the nads..."

Ha! See, this guy gets it! (Note: I am not typically a fan of crude humor, but I am a fan of role playing. And a Smuggler using such a base tactic in the face of superior training, equipment, and supernatural powers strikes me as wonderfully apropos and thus hilarious.)

[Anteros]

Eh. I don't really agree. For one, this is a game. Every player character and every companion is a mass murderer with more blood on their hands than any real-world war criminal, from the Darkest Sith to the Lightest Jedi. And not all the blood shed by anyone is guilty.

I played a Light Warrior to up to the end of Fallen Empire and I have to say I didn't get that "super evil" tone. I had my agendas, yes, and I killed as many Sith as I did Jedi to get to a place of power. But I was allowed to honor my bargains, spare most people I didn't feel deserved death, and be kind to those I felt deserved it. I mean, you're still Sith, you're still working for the Empire, and both of these still impact your morality, but you don't have to be hypocritical to be a Light Side Sith. They comment more than once how frustrating it is to operate in the system they exist in, and how they would rather push the Empire onto a better track than betray it, much the same as a Light Side Agent does. In fact, the Inquisitor can actively claim to their companions that this is their primary objective - to amass enough power and influence to knock some sense into their Stupid Evil peers. The Bounty Hunter, on the other hand, just shrugs it off by implying that they aren't responsible for the morals of the employers, just their own actions.

Also, the General you recover in the Black Talon flashpoint says flat out that both sides are itching for a war and are racing to amass war crimes in waiting for when it goes hot. The Republic isn't any better than the Empire when it comes to their acts.

The difference is that the Republic class quests quests have you doing things like putting down enemy combatants or gangsters while Imperial quests have you doing things like putting down slaves and destroying hospitals. Even if you make the "good" choice every time it gives you an opportunity, there's a ton of times the game just doesn't give you any choice but to be a horrible little monster if you're Imperial.

[Calemyr]

The difference is that the Republic class quests quests have you doing things like putting down enemy combatants or gangsters while Imperial quests have you doing things like putting down slaves and destroying hospitals. Even if you make the "good" choice every time it gives you an opportunity, there's a ton of times the game just doesn't give you any choice but to be a horrible little monster if you're Imperial.

Hmm... I'll grant that there's bias for that kind of thing, at least in the structure of quests. Imperial quests are generally couched in the expectation you'll solve them in a Dark way, because that's the cultural more in play. But I don't think the bias is terribly large. Yes, you kill slaves that started a violent revolt, but killing them is a kinder course of action than what the folks in charge want to do. So I suppose it would be accurate to say that Imperial quests do include several instances where your best choice is just the lesser of two evils. Most of the time, however, the enemies you face are the same brand of gangsters and ancient droids and possessed lunatics the Jedi face. And the Jedi you do have to fight tend to be closed minded bastards who hypocritically resort to violence when peaceful offers are made.

The Republic, on the other hand, has Belsavus. A place where you butcher en masse second and third generation prisoners whose only crime was to have parents that lived there, whose only crime may well have been having parents that committed crimes. I don't put that higher on the moral scale than killing slaves.

I have to ask, have you played a Light Side Sith? Your description of them sounds more like a second-hand recounting of generalities, or perhaps an experience that didn't extend past the first two planets (where Dark Side culture is long established), that doesn't remotely resemble my own experience. I'm not saying any Sith, even Light Side ones, are candidates for sainthood. But it is possible to be a good man in a bad situation trying to do his best without being a saint.

[Anteros]

Hmm... I'll grant that there's bias for that kind of thing, at least in the structure of quests. Imperial quests are generally couched in the expectation you'll solve them in a Dark way, because that's the cultural more in play. But I don't think the bias is terribly large. Yes, you kill slaves that started a violent revolt, but killing them is a kinder course of action than what the folks in charge want to do. So I suppose it would be accurate to say that Imperial quests do include several instances where your best choice is just the lesser of two evils. Most of the time, however, the enemies you face are the same brand of gangsters and ancient droids and possessed lunatics the Jedi face. And the Jedi you do have to fight tend to be closed minded bastards who hypocritically resort to violence when peaceful offers are made.

The Republic, on the other hand, has Belsavus. A place where you butcher en masse second and third generation prisoners whose only crime was to have parents that lived there, whose only crime may well have been having parents that committed crimes. I don't put that higher on the moral scale than killing slaves.

I have to ask, have you played a Light Side Sith? Your description of them sounds more like a second-hand recounting of generalities, or perhaps an experience that didn't extend past the first two planets (where Dark Side culture is long established), that doesn't remotely resemble my own experience. I'm not saying any Sith, even Light Side ones, are candidates for sainthood. But it is possible to be a good man in a bad situation trying to do his best without being a saint.

I've played every class all the way through their individual class stories except Bounty Hunter and Consular. And yes, I pretty much always play Light side on every character. That's one of the things that irritated me the most. I do everything in my power to play a good person, and the game keeps taking control away from me and having me murder innocent people in cold blood to further an agenda that a good person wouldn't care about anyway.

Good men in bad situations don't murder people to gain personal power like the Inquisitor and Warrior do on a regular basis. There might be some excuse for the things you do in the prologue before you have your own ship and you're basically a slave following orders, but there's absolutely none for the stuff they do later in the story. A good person doesn't intentionally work to spark a war like the Warrior does. He doesn't assassinate Jedi masters so he can convert their disciples. Good people don't murder their rival's family members for no reason other than to make them angry. Good people don't assassinate innocent people for the crime of owning things that they want to take. It's been a while since I've played these classes so I'm probably missing quite a few other examples as well.

[Calemyr]

I've played every class all the way through their individual class stories except Bounty Hunter and Consular. And yes, I pretty much always play Light side on every character. That's one of the things that irritated me the most. I do everything in my power to play a good person, and the game keeps taking control away from me and having me murder innocent people in cold blood to further an agenda that a good person wouldn't care about anyway.

Good men in bad situations don't murder people to gain personal power like the Inquisitor and Warrior do on a regular basis. There might be some excuse for the things you do in the prologue before you have your own ship and you're basically a slave following orders, but there's absolutely none for the stuff they do later in the story. A good person doesn't intentionally work to spark a war like the Warrior does. He doesn't assassinate Jedi masters so he can convert their disciples. Good people don't murder their rival's family members for no reason other than to make them angry. Good people don't assassinate innocent people for the crime of owning things that they want to take. It's been a while since I've played these classes so I'm probably missing quite a few other examples as well.

Fair enough. I guess my expectations don't match yours is all. I was looking at it from a perspective mentioned in Skyrim: "Which is better, to be born good, or to be born evil but remain good by dint of constant will and effort?" The Sith are raised to be evil, surrounded by evil, evil is the default expectation from them, and any deviation from that expectation is met with at best bemused dismissal and at worst outright contempt and attempted murder. To expect anyone from such an environment to be fully above it doesn't strike me as reasonable, but I feel the game allows you to become disillusioned with the Dark Side and want to become something else, and possibly lead the Empire to something better as well.

You come at this from easily as well versed a perspective as mine, and you came away with a different interpretation. I prefer mine, as I find it more fulfilling, but that doesn't render your interpretation flawed. I suspect we'll simply need to agree to disagree.

[Hunter Noventa]

Honestly the best part of playing a Light Side Sith Warrior is that there's a few times you encounter Jedi who are all like 'wait, there's no dark in you at all? What the heck?' and then attack you anyway.

[Honest Tiefling]

Honestly the best part of playing a Light Side Sith Warrior is that there's a few times you encounter Jedi who are all like 'wait, there's no dark in you at all? What the heck?' and then attack you anyway.

I just can't add anything to this, it is pretty satisfying to play a Light Side Sith Warrior. Highly recommended.

Through I also found banging the milf to be pretty amusing, so maybe I'm just immature.

[Mechalich]

Light and Dark decisions in game have weird faction-based connotations, because the way the game even defines what is light or dark depends on what faction you are a part of. This can be clearly seen in certain flashpoints - where what is the Light side choice for a Republic character may be the dark side choice for an Imperial one. The fate of Major Bysal in Kaon is the most obvious example that comes to mind.

The implication is that the Force considers context, which is ultimately rather bizarre but is essentially a function of the game mechanic that you cannot, no matter what, ever switch sides.

At least during the base game anyway. One of the cooler possibilities with the new expansion is that you may actually be able to do so post-Iokath.

[Anteros]

Fair enough. I guess my expectations don't match yours is all. I was looking at it from a perspective mentioned in Skyrim: "Which is better, to be born good, or to be born evil but remain good by dint of constant will and effort?" The Sith are raised to be evil, surrounded by evil, evil is the default expectation from them, and any deviation from that expectation is met with at best bemused dismissal and at worst outright contempt and attempted murder. To expect anyone from such an environment to be fully above it doesn't strike me as reasonable, but I feel the game allows you to become disillusioned with the Dark Side and want to become something else, and possibly lead the Empire to something better as well.

You come at this from easily as well versed a perspective as mine, and you came away with a different interpretation. I prefer mine, as I find it more fulfilling, but that doesn't render your interpretation flawed. I suspect we'll simply need to agree to disagree.

Oh I agree that there's a potential for a pretty good redemption story there. I don't think SWTOR quite achieves it, but I can see it. It's your character after all, so you're obviously free to come up with his own motives and such. I probably would have enjoyed my Sith characters more if I approached them with that mindset.

[Cikomyr]

I hate Queesh.

Hatehatehatehatehate

The enemy density is too freakkin' high. Its impossible to navigate anywhere without running in 4-5 mobs.

Stories are good. Play experience is trash

[Spore]

The implication is that the Force considers context, which is ultimately rather bizarre but is essentially a function of the game mechanic that you cannot, no matter what, ever switch sides.

Honestly I have always seen recently evolved to see dark and light side in Star Wars as "traditionalistic/reactive/strengthening the community" and "liberal/proactive/strengthen the individual". they are certainly polar opposites but ironically not as black or white.

[Calemyr]

I hate Queesh.

Hatehatehatehatehate

The enemy density is too freakkin' high. Its impossible to navigate anywhere without running in 4-5 mobs.

Stories are good. Play experience is trash

And that is why I love stealth characters. Fights can be fun, but they quickly get tedious so it is satisfying to just waltz past them after a while.

[Mechalich]

I hate Queesh.

Hatehatehatehatehate

The enemy density is too freakkin' high. Its impossible to navigate anywhere without running in 4-5 mobs.

Stories are good. Play experience is trash

Quesh has a high enemy density? Really? It's pretty normal and many of the open areas are actually rather sparse. Now Makeb, that has a high mob density.

[Peelee]

I hate Queesh.

Hatehatehatehatehate

The enemy density is too freakkin' high. Its impossible to navigate anywhere without running in 4-5 mobs.

Stories are good. Play experience is trash

Quesh is pretty short for all stories. IIRC the Smuggler had the worst of it. And I wanna say the Agent had the shortest stints on Quesh.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Quesh is pretty short for all stories. IIRC the Smuggler had the worst of it. And I wanna say the Agent had the shortest stints on Quesh.

I remember being shocked how short it was when I played it on my Consular, even the other short expansion planets were larger.

[Peelee]

Also, I've never played morality-choice RPGs by going the puppy kicker route; even when I played the Sith, I could only do the evil route maybe half the time, when it seemed story-appropriate, but if there was just a random person in the desert who needed water or something I'd go ahead and help. But now I really want to go back through the Republic stories and just go straight Evil, just to see how that affects things.

[Hunter Noventa]

Also, I've never played morality-choice RPGs by going the puppy kicker route; even when I played the Sith, I could only do the evil route maybe half the time, when it seemed story-appropriate, but if there was just a random person in the desert who needed water or something I'd go ahead and help. But now I really want to go back through the Republic stories and just go straight Evil, just to see how that affects things.

I did the Consular story as mostly dark, though it ended up coming off more as pragmatic, rather than evil for evil's sake. You're right about how hard it is to be a puppy-kicker, but sometimes the dark choices are very satisfying. But for every one that is actually sensible and satisfying, there are a dozen 'mwahahaha I'm so evil' moments and it's kind of awful.

In other news, I finished the Eternal Empire stuff...it's VERY strange doing it on a non-force using class. Doubly so for say, an Imperial Agent. Half your companions pull out lightsabers in every cutscene and you pull out...a blaster pistol you never actually use in combat. at least they had some decent class-specific dialogue choices.

On that note, I still wish the game had a non-force using melee class. I'm pretty sure there's an entire class of weapons (techblades) that are only usable by a few companions.

[Cikomyr]

Balmorra's ending was funny.

I enter the Weapons factory, and...

(On the left) Planet Story Conclusion
(On the right) Jedi Knight Story Conclusion

I take left. Oh, a Sith Lord turns up there! I have to fight him.

I take right. Oh, a Sith Lord thrns up there! I have to fight him.

That was hilarious. Did they take the same shuttle?

I couldn't bring myself to use the Barrage. I have played my Knight as pragmatic, "kill the enemy" whenever possible, but.. couldnt take the Barrage.

Oh. By the way, i rethought about the choice i had regarding the corrupted apprentice in Tython...

Why is it considered an evil choice to let him go than kill him? I mean, he is rendered powerless now. Whatever evil he did cannot be undone anyway. Its not like he is telling me to "kill your master as a sacrifice to the Forge!!!". No, he merely want me to use stuff he already happened to have stolen/aquired. Nobody was hurt by my decision, AFAIK.

[Anteros]

You really don't understand why letting the crazy mass murdering psycho run free is bad? Just because you stopped his plan this time doesn't mean he won't do awful things in the future.

[Kish]

As I told you when you first mentioned it, your choices weren't "kill him or let him go"--killing him wasn't an option you had. Your choices were to tell him "yes, serve my power!" and let him leave with his violent, murderous delusions intact for your gain, or take him back to the Temple for therapy.

That you defeated him doesn't mean he's powerless; he's still a Dark Side Force user nearly strong enough to have destroyed Tython, and he can gain power as surely as you can.

(Dark Side doesn't always mean evil; usually, but not always. But in that case, it couldn't be more clear-cut. "Do you care about the best interests of literally anyone in the universe more than your own potential benefit? Y/N.")

[Mechalich]

On that note, I still wish the game had a non-force using melee class. I'm pretty sure there's an entire class of weapons (techblades) that are only usable by a few companions.

The game has several non-Force using melee classes. Powertech/Vanguard DPS and Scoundrel/Operative DPS are both melee classes, if you're playing them at range, you're doing it wrong (tragically this is a common sight in pug groups).

It is true that no PC class can use the techblade or techstaff weapon types, which is kind of odd. Probably, there was intent to develop such a pathway but it got dropped during development.

[Cikomyr]

As I told you when you first mentioned it, your choices weren't "kill him or let him go"--killing him wasn't an option you had. Your choices were to tell him "yes, serve my power!" and let him leave with his violent, murderous delusions intact for your gain, or take him back to the Temple for therapy.

That you defeated him doesn't mean he's powerless; he's still a Dark Side Force user nearly strong enough to have destroyed Tython, and he can gain power as surely as you can.

(Dark Side doesn't always mean evil; usually, but not always. But in that case, it couldn't be more clear-cut. "Do you care about the best interests of literally anyone in the universe more than your own potential benefit? Y/N.")

But he wasn't an indiscriminate Mass Murderer. He was a deeply traumatised individual who felt the Jedi were too weak, and needed to be reborn and reforged stronger. That was the entire motivation for his actions on Tython. The man had little care for the Inhabitants of the Galaxy at large beyond "The Jedi failed them with their weakness".

And the entire point of his offering his services is that he saw in the Jedi Knight that the Jedi were maybe not so weak after all. So instead of purifying the Order hoping that strenght emerges, he dedicated his effort in making the Knight stronger, for the good of the galaxy at large.

Now, i am not saying what I did was an evil act. I stand by my Dark Side choice, thank you very much. I just fail to see how some people see it as one of the purest evil action the Knight can take, seeing as there is no actual victim to that choice.

[Kish]

Been checking your in-game mail?

In any event, if you want to defend your character's actions, that's fine--just stop saying the alternative was killing him.

[Cikomyr]

Been checking your in-game mail?

In any event, if you want to defend your character's actions, that's fine--just stop saying the alternative was killing him.

Nono, what i meant is "why is killing him considered less bad?"

I havent heard back from him yet ;) i am ready for that thing to blow up in my face

[Anteros]

But he wasn't an indiscriminate Mass Murderer. He was a deeply traumatised individual who felt the Jedi were too weak, and needed to be reborn and reforged stronger. That was the entire motivation for his actions on Tython. The man had little care for the Inhabitants of the Galaxy at large beyond "The Jedi failed them with their weakness".

And the entire point of his offering his services is that he saw in the Jedi Knight that the Jedi were maybe not so weak after all. So instead of purifying the Order hoping that strenght emerges, he dedicated his effort in making the Knight stronger, for the good of the galaxy at large.

Now, i am not saying what I did was an evil act. I stand by my Dark Side choice, thank you very much. I just fail to see how some people see it as one of the purest evil action the Knight can take, seeing as there is no actual victim to that choice.

That's explicitly not true though. His Flesh Raiders were not solely targeting the Jedi. In fact, the vast majority of the damage he inflicts is on the Twilek village that committed the crime of existing in his general area.

The only real damage he does against the Jedi is having his flesh raiders try to murder the children. Granted, he would have killed your master if you didn't step in, so he's not completely incompetent.

[Hunter Noventa]

The game has several non-Force using melee classes. Powertech/Vanguard DPS and Scoundrel/Operative DPS are both melee classes, if you're playing them at range, you're doing it wrong (tragically this is a common sight in pug groups).

It is true that no PC class can use the techblade or techstaff weapon types, which is kind of odd. Probably, there was intent to develop such a pathway but it got dropped during development.

They might fight in melee, but well, flamethrowers and pistol whips don't quite feel right in that regard, when you get charged by plenty of soldiers with vibroblades and the like.

[Kish]

Those soldiers generally die quickly.

[Cikomyr]

That's explicitly not true though. His Flesh Raiders were not solely targeting the Jedi. In fact, the vast majority of the damage he inflicts is on the Twilek village that committed the crime of existing in his general area.

The only real damage he does against the Jedi is having his flesh raiders try to murder the children. Granted, he would have killed your master if you didn't step in, so he's not completely incompetent.

But wasnt the entire point of the attacks on the Twi'leck village to turn them against the Jedi? Create leverage, so they would side with him against them?

[Kish]

If literally omnicidal is your threshold for it being clearly better to take someone prisoner than encourage his delusions and let him stroll away, I suspect your actions in the galaxy may be generally causing more harm than good.

(Me agreeing with Anteros on anything is a once-in-the-forum's-lifespan event.)

[Peelee]

If literally omnicidal is your threshold for it being clearly better to take someone prisoner than encourage his delusions and let him stroll away, I suspect your actions in the galaxy may be generally causing more harm than good.

(Me agreeing with Anteros on anything is a once-in-the-forum's-lifespan event.)

It will be a day long remembered. Imean, probably more for being moon landing day, but still.