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View Full Version : Aftermath of Dark Lord, maybe not so bad



Sergeantbrother
2018-07-08, 02:58 AM
I'm thinking of running a fantasy campaign in the near set in a nation that was once ruled by a Dark Lord sort of figure who was defeated by an alliance of heroes and nations. It's been a while (at least a generation) since this happened and there are terrible problems in this kingdom. The governing body (made up of the previously mentioned alliance) are extremely corrupt and many of the people are crying out for the Dark Lord's return.

The characters will learn that some of the Dark Lord's followers (kind of like a cult to him) are trying to resurrect him and overthrow the current rulers. The followers of the Dark Lord that the players will mostly encounter will be principled in a somewhat harsh way, genuinely dedicated to their deceased master and truly believing that their goals are good and that they'll be rescuing the people. The players then will get to decide if they are going to try to thwart the Dark Lord's resurrection, aid it, or seek some alternative to fight both the corrupt alliance leaders and the Dark Lord's cult - none of which would be strictly the right or wrong solution.

I was hoping to see if anybody had some ideas as to how I could introduce this scenario and construct it in such a way as to make this a complex and difficult choice.

DeTess
2018-07-08, 03:33 AM
If this is a new campaign, maybe start with a couple of tangentially related adventures (1-4 sessions worth) to show your players what the setting is like. Let them learn about how things are now organically, rather than just telling them.

Maybe they try to solve a local crime, only to get harrased by the corrupt government trying to cover it up, or maybe its a treasure hunt /race for an artifact of the old war.

Lunali
2018-07-08, 07:57 AM
Maybe they try to solve a local crime, only to get harrased by the corrupt government trying to cover it up, or maybe its a treasure hunt /race for an artifact of the old war.

Or possibly get harassed by people that just want the case closed and since the PCs are close to the case they make decent suspects/scapegoats.

Anymage
2018-07-08, 09:01 AM
Unfortunately this kind of requires a prelude.

If the dark lord is just evil as an informed attribute, the PCs are more likely to be dupes than characters making informed decisions. They need to see the reality of "he crushed dissent mercilessly, but at least he kept us safe and made sure the trains ran on time" with their own eyes. Without that, it's just the current corrupt nobles being bad (which I'm sure you'll show), and the PCs have to pick an option for replacement.

Also, be mindful that a setting conceit of "there are no good options, you just have to decide which is the lesser evil" is not everybody's cup of tea. As well as the reality that many games fall apart well before they reach fruition, or else have the players completely sidetrack it. So treating the old dark lord's followers as one option in an "overthrow the corrupt nobles" game is doable, but your specific plan has more moving parts than I'd be comfortable with as the basis for a game.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-07-08, 09:07 AM
Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series is kind of like this-- the first book covers the overthrow of the evil god-emperor, and the remaining two are all about the problems (political and mystical) that happen as a result. Worth looking at for inspiration. (And because they're excellent)

DeTess
2018-07-08, 10:47 AM
In addition to what Anymage said, this also requires you to really think about the Dark Lord's motives. You can't really have him be doing what he does for the Evulz (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForTheEvulz) if you want to tell the kind of story that you described. History doesn't have to redeem, him, but it should make people go 'Huh, I can understand why he felt the need to do what he did'. The Mistborn series definitely goes into this in depth, but if you want an example that doesn't require you to read about 2000 pages of very good fantasy, I've got this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040806#.W0IxnNL7SUk) for you.

Theophilus
2018-07-08, 12:26 PM
Perhaps the simplest manner would be to add a greater evil: Your 'Dark Lord' was the only person capable of keeping the Great Evil Monster slumbering under the cobblestones of the ancient citadel. The current nobles think that mythic hogwash and continue their infighting over the kingdom's scraps of power. This leads to opportunities to introduce another cult, the worshippers of the Slumbering Evil, who face off with the Dark Lord. These factions would give your characters options to choose from: The Dark Lord's cult, the Slumbering Evil's cult, a divine order sworn to defeat both, or a political faction within the hierarchy that survived the Dark Lord's fall.

As said, these machinations are lengthy and require either hefty incentive or hefty railroading to keep the players on track. However, the latter usually leads to dissatisfied players and an unenchanting game.

Andor13
2018-07-08, 11:14 PM
If you want there to be an actual choice, then you have to make the Dark Lord a complex figure.

Without getting onto real world politics there are a couple of hardline dictators who did enough good for their country that even their enemies will pause before bashing on them. Basically he should have a few good traits to go along with the murder and the torture.

Examples of good things (and associated negatives):
Peasant Powerbase. He was beloved by the farmers and supported them against the nobles/elite. This ticked off all the neighboring nobles for obvious reasons.
Educator. He was trying to drag his country forward whether it wanted to go or not. This ticked off a lot of old guard/traditionalists.
Environmentalist. He loved the wilderness and protected it from over harvesting/destruction. Ticked off the industrialists/expansionists.
Artiste. He was a great patron of the arts/music. Tended to eliminate anything he found unsightly.
Architect. A great builder of public buildings/infrastructure/roadways. Burned down a few slums.
Xenophile. He loved weird and monstrous races and peaceably incorporated them into the kingdom. Ticked off the racists/frightened the ignorant.

A few ideas, I'm sure you can think of more.

Thrudd
2018-07-08, 11:29 PM
I feel like "Dark Lord" is poor branding for somebody that is convinced they are the good guy or wants to convince others of this.

Scripten
2018-07-09, 08:55 AM
I will never not recommend reading through Glen Cook's The Black Company for a solid deconstruction/portrayal of several flavors of complex Dark Lord characters.

Dalinale
2018-07-09, 09:43 AM
Making the Dark Lord seem 'reasonable' is mostly a matter of what he actually did, and how his perceived motives actions trickled down to his modern followers.

Did he have a army of monsters? Than perhaps he took the ogres from the western hills and introduced them to steel and arms, and now ogres are mostly accepted in most civilized regions after about two hundred years, little different to the average tavern owner than a dwarf. Did he war with the elves? Perhaps they ended up turning evil and, in hindsight, perhaps he attacked them with knowledge of their leaders corruption, or that, even if he did so entirely selfishly, he still knew they were a bigger threat than anyone else did and those Elf Wars could've been avoided if the Dark Lord took their sacred tree. Did he do all that he did for love/family/honor? His methods might seem cruel to most, but now that it's somewhat common knowledge as to why he did what he did and his darkest impulses have been filtered through the ages, he's somewhat of a culture hero to some in the region that he first emerged. He might have also had a particularly strong minion (a powerful blackguard or a dragon, for example) that's survived his fall and went on to be helpful for the kingdom while waxing poetically about the Dark Lord in a honestly fond manner, which made some feasts slightly awkward when a 'redeemed' evil figure in the past still held him to high regards, especially in comparison to those that took his place.

Kami2awa
2018-07-09, 09:46 AM
I feel like "Dark Lord" is poor branding for somebody that is convinced they are the good guy or wants to convince others of this.

Maybe not, it depends on the culture. Darkness can be exciting and cool, and might be a good recruitment tool. What if the corrupt bunch who replaced him style themselves as "Warriors of the Light" or similar, and were around before the Dark Lord arose? What if he arose as a direct result of their complacency, and they haven't learned since then?

Lapak
2018-07-09, 11:23 AM
As kind of a counterpoint to what others are putting forward in terms of tempering the 'Dark Lord,' it's entirely possible that they were utterly monstrous. In the aftermath of a powerful regime being overthrown, you will get local strongmen/warlords, increased banditry and lack of safe trade, administrative corruption, and so on. It's entirely possible that the choice is between "restore the Dark Lord, who was absolutely evil and sacrificed babies by force-feeding them live kittens, but who will put an end to all these lesser evils within the year" and "spend the next thirty years slowly assembling a new, just government and playing whack-a-mole with lesser, local evils and fending off foreign encroachment on the weakened borders until the former empire is reunited and coherent again."

The first is horrible. The second is a lifetime's worth of effort with no guarantees. That's no easy choice to make. And the third option (stop the Dark Lord, then buzz off and let the chips fall where they may) is also open to a party that doesn't want to shoulder the burden, but they'll be dealing with the fallout of that choice for a long time.

Psyren
2018-07-09, 11:41 AM
Netflix's original movie Bright starring Will Smith has a similar starting premise. The movie itself is... problematic, but the worldbuilding may have some ideas you can crib, particularly around the "coalition of races" idea.



I was hoping to see if anybody had some ideas as to how I could introduce this scenario and construct it in such a way as to make this a complex and difficult choice.

The problem is that "Dark Lords" seldom have nuance in their motivations; using that kind of villain often dooms your setting to black and white morality. It would be like trying to find reasons that Sauron or Voldemort or Palpatine or Darkseid are morally justified.

Fable 3 had an example you might be able to use, where the Big Bad was tyrannical and draconian only because there was a Bigger Bad on the way that he needed the austere measures to defeat. Where these kinds of stories fall apart though tends to be that they rely on the first Big Bad having some contrived excuse to not to be able to reveal the situation to the people they are oppressing.

Sergeantbrother
2018-07-09, 01:59 PM
Well, about this former leader being "the Dark Lord" - it may just be the characterization of him by the current rulers. The players wont start off knowing the entire truth about all that transpired in the past, only the history as recorded by the winners. The players may grow skeptical of this account as they encounter servants of the Dark Lord as well as learn more about the current state of this region.

I don't want the truth to be entirely the opposite of what is recorded though. The Dark Lord should really be dark in a number of ways, but not evil for evil's sake. Like many real world dictators, he should have complex motives for his misdeeds, motives which maybe the players/characters can empathize with.

To some degree, it is deconstruction of the entire "Dark Lord" trope, along with the idea of a band of heroes who defeat him.

Dawgmoah
2018-07-09, 02:31 PM
The Dark Company books by Glen Cook were already mentioned. There is a D20/3.0 campaign book based on the series written by Green Ronin.

Another campaign world already in print is "Midnight" by Fantasy Flight Games. It could be considered something like if Sauron had won in the Lord of the Rings.

DeTess
2018-07-09, 02:31 PM
Well, about this former leader being "the Dark Lord" - it may just be the characterization of him by the current rulers. The players wont start off knowing the entire truth about all that transpired in the past, only the history as recorded by the winners. The players may grow skeptical of this account as they encounter servants of the Dark Lord as well as learn more about the current state of this region.

I don't want the truth to be entirely the opposite of what is recorded though. The Dark Lord should really be dark in a number of ways, but not evil for evil's sake. Like many real world dictators, he should have complex motives for his misdeeds, motives which maybe the players/characters can empathize with.

To some degree, it is deconstruction of the entire "Dark Lord" trope, along with the idea of a band of heroes who defeat him.

Okay, so if you've got the time, you really need to read the Mistborn trilogy.