Lore bard advice

[Boared Bard]

Hi all

I am mixed up in character creation. I orginally wanted a fighter common folk hero, and I liked the thought of playing a bard due to the skills monkey aspect. but also wanted to be good in melee.

my party complrises of paladin, gnome wiz/cleric, fighter archer, sorcerer and dward cleric healing machine.

I started lore - got my butt handed to me in a few fights, so decided to dip one level in fighter to enhance melee. picked shield defence for fighting style (now wish I had gone duelist). my dm is not keen on me going valour hence the dip.

worried abnout become redundant and a useless character as we go up levels. i am not an experienced role player.

was thinking of going 3 lvls fighter and 6 lore bard -picking up searing smite and blur to enhance melee and perhaps champion to improve crit range.

cheers for help

[GorogIrongut]

Honestly... I'd talk to your DM about redoing your multi class. While Fighter isn't a horrible choice... and if you decide you still want to do it, then you should take no more than 3 levels to get you Eldritch Knight. But if you get the redo, then I would either go Hexblade (1 or 2) or if you want to be stronger in melee, you could always do with another Paladin (dip).

Because you've got a paladin but don't have a hexblade, that's probably the path I would suggest doing.

[CTurbo]

In hindsight...


You should have started Valor or Swords Bard instead

You should have dipped Paladin or Hexblade



Lore Bards are not meant for actual fighting. I think your best bet is to just optimize for a "tough" Lore Bard that still doesn't worry about fighting. Max your Cha as soon as you can and play it as a Lore Bard is meant to be played.

[CTurbo]

What level are you and what are your stats?

Your idea of picking up a couple of melee focused spells at Bard 6 is a good option for helping your melee. You could pick up Magic Initiate for Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade and Find Familiar. A Familiar can usually get you advantage on your one attack.

Shadow Blade is another decent option to consider.

[Quoxis]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your build as it is - any character can benefit from one level of fighter.

That being said, every level of fighter also delays your spell progression - you‘ll get smites and blur at lvl 7 as it is now, and if you go more into fighter first, suddenly it’s level 10, where others are already casting 5th level spells and you’re dabbling as a half-and-half that can choose to either attack once per turn or cast a mediocre spell.

My advice: Keep your character, keep the one fighter level (maybe try to get the defensive fighting style, that’s all you‘ll need for not getting kicked too hard by any goblin that tries to hurt you) and throw away your sword, you’re a caster! Get spells that can keep you safe without concentration (mirror image?) and try to support your buddies while blasting from afar, that might be the better strategy for a beginner.
I‘ve played for over a year before i got a basic grasp of a few things that are important to keep my characters alive - a lore bard with assumingly mediocre con and dex played as a melee combatant isn’t exactly one of them.

[bid]

was thinking of going 3 lvls fighter and 6 lore bard -picking up searing smite and blur to enhance melee and perhaps champion to improve crit range.
First, I'm sorry you got gored by a bore.

Second, the smite spells are not worth it because you have better thing to do with your concentration. When you have blurr up, you can't cast searing smite.

Fighter sword and board forces you to take warcaster since both your hands are busy.

There are many ways you could have done better:
- skill monkey as half-elf rogue 1 / fighter X for 8 skills and 2 expertise
- full caster as hexblade 1 / bard X allows you to melee with Cha, stopping at Dex14 for medium armor

Really, talk with your DM and see if you can retcon yourself into something that works. You already have 3 full casters and a pure lore bard does not fit with your RP concept.

[Mercurias]

It seems like you should have picked the College of Blades from what I can tell. That would have given you medium armor, a fighting style, an extra attack, and enhanced melee strikes as well as the ability to use your weapon as a spell focus. I might ask your DM if you could respec. Your dip into fighter isn’t necessarily bad, but if you’re respeccing anyway then I might consider swapping to a 2 level Rogue dip to give you a little bit of Sneak attack, added skill monkey prowess, and Cunning Action.

[Citan]

Hi OP!

It seems like you should have picked the College of Blades from what I can tell. That would have given you medium armor, a fighting style, an extra attack, and enhanced melee strikes as well as the ability to use your weapon as a spell focus. I might ask your DM if you could respec. Your dip into fighter isn’t necessarily bad, but if you’re respeccing anyway then I might consider swapping to a 2 level Rogue dip to give you a little bit of Sneak attack, added skill monkey prowess, and Cunning Action.
+10.
Speak to your DM about that, and ask why he doesn't like the idea to find an agreeable compromise.

Otherwise you'll just complicate your life for little, since you didn't want any specific dual-class, just "be sufficiently resilient in fights".

[JakOfAllTirades]

Hi all

I am mixed up in character creation. I orginally wanted a fighter common folk hero, and I liked the thought of playing a bard due to the skills monkey aspect. but also wanted to be good in melee.

my party complrises of paladin, gnome wiz/cleric, fighter archer, sorcerer and dward cleric healing machine.

I started lore - got my butt handed to me in a few fights, so decided to dip one level in fighter to enhance melee. picked shield defence for fighting style (now wish I had gone duelist). my dm is not keen on me going valour hence the dip.

worried abnout become redundant and a useless character as we go up levels. i am not an experienced role player.

was thinking of going 3 lvls fighter and 6 lore bard -picking up searing smite and blur to enhance melee and perhaps champion to improve crit range.

cheers for help

Bards start out with a decent enough spell selection, combat-wise. They just don't use their spells the same way as other casters. (They're not blasters.) When I played a Lore Bard, I used Faerie Fire in almost every battle, and attacked nearly all my foes with advantage. Get that one and you'll hardly ever miss -- it works with ranged attacks as well. It also gives your allies advantage. Thunderwave is also an awesome spell for Bards in close combat, so get that one. A carefully timed Dissonant Whispers spell can provoke multiple opportunity attacks on a fleeing enemy. When you get to 3rd level, get Hold Person. That doesn just give you advantage in melee; it gives you and your allies automatic critical hits. Blindness gives one creature disadvantage, and gives you and your allies advantage until it makes a Con save.

Lore Bards have some truly terrifying combat spells, even at low levels; they don't need weapons and armor.

[opaopajr]

The above is spot on. Your PC is fine, it just fights differently. Use your spells to manage combat, you are the support that makes combat easier.

With spells like: Bane, Faerie Fire, Sleep, Dissonant Whispers, Heroism, Longstrider, Blind/Deaf, Silence, Charm Person, Hold Person, Silence... you have a lot of power to swing combat onto your side's favor. (Choosing your spells is important!)

That also makes you a target if they are Concentration spells. Which you should be OK with, since you can just Dodge and mess with the battlefield through your one free interact with objects. You even have Protection style which gives you a second Reaction thing to do while you are near allies.

Most of your party seems solid enough for blasting away enemies and undoing damage. But you are rather low on frontliners. However, your Bard spells, Protection style, and Second Wind make for an interesting decoy frontliner. And in easy fights you can help the frontline fighter quickly mop up and save on resources.

Also, roleplaying has less to do with how you generate a character than what you *do* with it after its made. Don't beat yourself up; you didn't build a mistake. You actually built a challenge to approach combat differently: a support PC.

Now whether you want to continue with the challenge is up to you. If not, it's perfectly fine to ask your GM if you can back out and play something you feel happier with. If you gave it your best shot and feel defeated, better to ask for help or a rebuild. :smallsmile:

[Boared Bard]

Stats are

str 8
dex 15
con 14
int 10
wis 12
chr 16

current level bard 2/fighter 1

fighting style - protection

I picked the war caster feat - human variant. I quickly picked up that the group is low on front liners - hence I have built a tougher lore bard. yes I could have picked sword/valor but my dm was not keen and tbh I kinda got heckled back into the lore bard role. Yep I have delayed magical secrets till 7th.

My dm is making me come up with witty comments when I use cutting words, etc - not my strong point. since I kinda mucked around with the sword bard before the dm is refusing to allow any more changes. I am a full time professional my gaming pals have more time for the detail.

I got to make it work, so was going to advance in lore till 6th, then advance in fighter to 3rd (battle master so I can pick up duelist manoeuvres - parry, riposte, etc so can be stronger in melee).

I have tried staying at the back, but the combat is so boring. the enemy make their saves and I don't really feel useful.

So I might just leave bard lvl 2 and advance in fighter. we have lots of casters. I could go sword bard with some big arm twisting, but that defeats the point of the fighter dip

I kinda see him as the guy who can protect the casters. my original idea was a zorro/Antonio banderas folk hero type.






The above is spot on. Your PC is fine, it just fights differently. Use your spells to manage combat, you are the support that makes combat easier.

With spells like: Bane, Faerie Fire, Sleep, Dissonant Whispers, Heroism, Longstrider, Blind/Deaf, Silence, Charm Person, Hold Person, Silence... you have a lot of power to swing combat onto your side's favor. (Choosing your spells is important!)

That also makes you a target if they are Concentration spells. Which you should be OK with, since you can just Dodge and mess with the battlefield through your one free interact with objects. You even have Protection style which gives you a second Reaction thing to do while you are near allies.

Most of your party seems solid enough for blasting away enemies and undoing damage. But you are rather low on frontliners. However, your Bard spells, Protection style, and Second Wind make for an interesting decoy frontliner. And in easy fights you can help the frontline fighter quickly mop up and save on resources.

Also, roleplaying has less to do with how you generate a character than what you *do* with it after its made. Don't beat yourself up; you didn't build a mistake. You actually built a challenge to approach combat differently: a support PC.

Now whether you want to continue with the challenge is up to you. If not, it's perfectly fine to ask your GM if you can back out and play something you feel happier with. If you gave it your best shot and feel defeated, better to ask for help or a rebuild. :smallsmile:

[GorogIrongut]

Really, talk with your DM and see if you can retcon yourself into something that works. You already have 3 full casters and a pure lore bard does not fit with your RP concept.


I am a full time professional my gaming pals have more time for the detail.


These are the main points I took away from the previous comments.

You've already got 3 casters... presumably run by your more experienced gaming pals. You shouldn't feel the need to shoehorn your character into whatever mould they want it to fit in. Don't be a frontliner. It's not what your character idea is. Just be what you want your character to be and let the more experienced players be the ones who do the compensating as they have the time and the necessary skillsets. You just play what you want and have fun and don't forget to bring some soda.

[Specter]

There's nothing wrong with Fighter 1/Lore Bard X, but you have to know your role.

With a Breastplate and a shield, you should have 18AC - that's good, but not great, and thus you should avoid being targeted by many enemies. Sometimes you will protect, and at other times you'll be protected.

The best way to help your team is to start a buff/debuff and sustain it. Trying to attack is only a good option when you're already doing that, and the enemy is strong mentally (otherwise Vicious Mockery should do a better job).

Also grab Booming/Green-Flame Blade as a magical secret. That will make your attack scale and not be ignored at higher levels.

[Boared Bard]

I think that is part of the problem. I am not really sure what my role is.

What do you think of picking up a few levels of fighter such as battle master to get manoeuvres? EK would reduce my spell slots?

Also are BB/GFB xanathar spells?

[Quoxis]

I think that is part of the problem. I am not really sure what my role is.

What do you think of picking up a few levels of fighter such as battle master to get manoeuvres? EK would reduce my spell slots?

Also are BB/GFB xanathar spells?

Nope, from Sword Coast Adventurer‘s Guide (scag).

Also: your group, especially your GM, don’t sound like nice people. Maybe look into that first - everyone deserves a group they can have fun with.

[Specter]

I think that is part of the problem. I am not really sure what my role is.

What do you think of picking up a few levels of fighter such as battle master to get manoeuvres? EK would reduce my spell slots?

Also are BB/GFB xanathar spells?

You can either be a more resilient Bard with aone fighter level, or an inspiring fighter by focusing on it. Both can work, though I think the former is better for your party.

The worst thing you can do is be in the middle of the road and be good at nothing.

EK would give you more spells known and also increase your caster level by 1 every 3 levels. BB/GFB are in Sword Coast's Adventuring Guide.

[Aaron Underhand]

Your party needs a skill monkey/rogue type, so I would stay Ftr 1/lore bard x

You have warcaster - booming blade will keep you combat relevant - either a magical secret or Mage Initiate as your feat at 5th level. If you take MI (Warlock) you could get Booming blade (great for melee, and especially good for opportunity attacks), eldritch blast (a decent ranged attack) and hex ( a useful one off debuff, or a boost to eldritch blast in a long term ranged combat)

And the main reason for this suggestion … it's fun!

[Boared Bard]

having a brain storm - when you mean former - you mean a more resilient bard with one fighter level?

atm from your advice, I feel I will progress lore bard to lv 4, keep fighter lvl 1 for the moment and see how it goes.

I am not sure if my gm will use or accept SCAG so would elemental blade suffice? I do like the thought of EK, more spells but less slots could be ok due to the number of spell casters.

Current spells inc:

Vic Mockery
Min Illusion

Healing word
Dis whispers
sleep
faerie fire
charm person


You can either be a more resilient Bard with aone fighter level, or an inspiring fighter by focusing on it. Both can work, though I think the former is better for your party.

The worst thing you can do is be in the middle of the road and be good at nothing.

EK would give you more spells known and also increase your caster level by 1 every 3 levels. BB/GFB are in Sword Coast's Adventuring Guide.

[Willie the Duck]

. yes I could have picked sword/valor but my dm was not keen and tbh I kinda got heckled back into the lore bard role.
...
My dm is making me come up with witty comments when I use cutting words, etc - not my strong point.

The absolute first thing I would do is to sit down with your DM, look them straight in the eye, very unflinchingly, and state, "if you are going to imply that I shouldn't pick a sword or valor bard (despite them being in no way cheesy archetypes), and you are going to heckle me back into the lore bard role, in. no. way. are you going to be making it difficult for me to actually accomplish what a lore bard does. That is being a bad DM and a bad friend. Got it?"

There is no excuse for using peer pressure or whatever is going on to make someone play something, and then actively make them uncomfortable in the role of doing so. If they do it again after that, I would suggest handing them the character sheet, tell them to 'have fun,' with their new NPC, and roll up a folk hero fighter.


I think that is part of the problem. I am not really sure what my role is.

This is the real issue. What do you want this character to be? A primary fighter? A standard support caster with a fighter dip simply for survivability? Someone who uses their slotted (non-cantrip) spells as a way to be a good fighter? Someone who reserves those spells for everything else and just wants to be pretty good at fighting on the side? We can't make that decision for you (although we can help you make what you decide into a reality), what would you like to play?

The easiest, AFAICT, is to stick with the one level of fighter, wear medium armor and shield (with war caster feat to cast with both hands full), get that dex up to 16 eventually, and pick a SCAG cantrip (Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade) as a magic secret at level 7 to keep your damage output somewhat keeping up with those classes that gain multiple attacks). This technique will work at least to level 9 or so (so your second ASI), where-upon the party dynamic may have changed and you can rethink what you want to do (/go more spellcastery or work on upping your fighting prowress).

That said, trying to turn a lore bard into a martial protector of other spellcasters is one of the most roundabout ways of doing something possible (given that they are usually one of the squishy spellcasters in need of protection), particularly when there are other types of bard (valor/swords) that are more naturally suited to it, as well as other classes which fit your skill-monkey ideals (ranger, fighter-rogue, etc.).

[Specter]

having a brain storm - when you mean former - you mean a more resilient bard with one fighter level?

atm from your advice, I feel I will progress lore bard to lv 4, keep fighter lvl 1 for the moment and see how it goes.

I am not sure if my gm will use or accept SCAG so would elemental blade suffice? I do like the thought of EK, more spells but less slots could be ok due to the number of spell casters.

Current spells inc:

Vic Mockery
Min Illusion

Healing word
Dis whispers
sleep
faerie fire
charm person

Yep. Your party has 3 main damage dealers, so y'all should be ok.

If your DM doesn't allow those cantrips, I'd suggest grabbing a smite spell at level 7 or skipping weapon attacks entirely, since they'll be irrelevant without boosts.

Bottom line - inspire your friends, annoy the enemy and you're golden.