What spell is the most abusable with Extend spell if it had no restrictions?

[Eragon123]

As in any long duration spells could be over 24 hours and you could also double single round spells.

What ridiculous things happen if a DM allowed this change?

[nickl_2000]

Darkvision cast right before you go to bed. Wake up after a long rest and still have darkvision for the next 16 hours. Same for Mage Armor.

[MaxWilson]

As in any long duration spells could be over 24 hours and you could also double single round spells.

What ridiculous things happen if a DM allowed this change?

Aura of Vitality and Healing Spirit, obviously, already go very well with Extend Spell today, no rule changes needed. Foresight is also somewhat abusable with Extend spell although it is difficult to get both Foresight and Extend Spell.

With the suggested change, Planar Binding, Animate Dead, Mass Suggestion, Goodberry, and Shield all become somewhat abusable, though not excessively so.

[Naanomi]

Animate dead maybe?

[Kadesh]

Telekinesis. At will 30ft Hover, and grt in combat and throw weapons at people.

[Lunali]

Darkvision cast right before you go to bed. Wake up after a long rest and still have darkvision for the next 16 hours. Same for Mage Armor.

You can already do this by casting it before your spells reset in the morning.

[MaxWilson]

You can already do this by casting it before your spells reset in the morning.

Controversial claim there.

[Beechgnome]

I think the point of the OP was to find spells that, if you extended, would have durations longer than 24 hours if that rule for extended was relaxed.

Animate dead doesn't work because it's duration is Instantaneous and the 24 hours is in the fine print.

For Divine Soul Sorcerers, Geas goes from 30 days to 60 days, Forbiddance goes from 24 hours to 48 hours and Contagion goes from 7 to 14 days.

But none of those seems game breaking.

[Vessyra]

Chill touch and blade ward would be nice, allowing you to quickened lightning bolt then stop enemy healing or defend yourself.

Extending 24 hour spells like mind blank seems like a fun idea, if you have the preparation time

[MaxWilson]

Animate dead doesn't work because it's duration is Instantaneous and the 24 hours is in the fine print.

Good point. Same objection applies to Goodberry: its duration is Instantaneous. That leaves Planar Binding, Mass Suggestion, and Shield/Absorb Elements as probably the most interesting cases.

[Lunali]

Controversial claim there.

If 50 minutes straight of combat doesn't break a long rest, casting a single spell shouldn't either.

[Eragon123]

I think the point of the OP was to find spells that, if you extended, would have durations longer than 24 hours if that rule for extended was relaxed.

Animate dead doesn't work because it's duration is Instantaneous and the 24 hours is in the fine print.

For Divine Soul Sorcerers, Geas goes from 30 days to 60 days, Forbiddance goes from 24 hours to 48 hours and Contagion goes from 7 to 14 days.

But none of those seems game breaking.

While that is fun especially with Mass Suggestion and many of the other spells mentioned in the thread, I am also interested in what people think about a two turn duration shield.

[MaxWilson]

If 50 minutes straight of combat doesn't break a long rest, casting a single spell shouldn't either.

50 minutes straight of combat should break a long rest, and so should casting a spell. I'm aware of Crawford's tweets to the contrary, but (1) they are goofy, and (2) they contradict the plain meaning of the words in the PHB.


While that is fun especially with Mass Suggestion and many of the other spells mentioned in the thread, I am also interested in what people think about a two turn duration shield.

Two turn duration shield is mildly interesting (slightly more efficient than casting two separate Shields) but not broken. When I first started playing 5E, before I grokked the rules for Extend Spell, I actually thought this was legal, and while it was interesting and a tool I intended to put in my toolkit, it didn't excite my powergamer instincts.

For one thing, you can't even be sure when you cast the first Shield that you will need a Shield on round two. If your opponent misses your normal AC, it's wasted. Even in the best case where you would need a second shield, you just save 0.6 spell points. (2 spell points for a normal shield, 7/5 spell points per sorcery point at best, 2 - 7/5 = 0.6 spell points savings.)

[Lunali]

50 minutes straight of combat should break a long rest, and so should casting a spell. I'm aware of Crawford's tweets to the contrary, but (1) they are goofy, and (2) they contradict the plain meaning of the words in the PHB.

"A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting Spells, or similar Adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it."

It's not about the tweets, that's the RAW on long rests.

[MaxWilson]

"A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting Spells, or similar Adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it."

It's not about the tweets, that's the RAW on long rests.

Precisely.

Fighting, casting spells, an hour of walking, or similar adventuring activity all count as a period of strenuous activity which interrupts a rest, in the plain meaning of the words. Fighting is strenuous. If there is any doubt as to whether fighting for 50 minutes somehow does not interrupt a rest because it isn't an hour long, see previous sentence: "extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, durin which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch..."

If it had been intended that no period of strenuous activity interrupts a rest unless it is at least an hour long, it should have been written that way: "If the rest is interrupted by at least one hour of strenuous activity--walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity..."

Granted that the RAW isn't very well-edited, and the sentence should have been flipped around by the editor to make it absolutely unambiguous, but the tweet is still wrong.

[Tanarii]

If 50 minutes straight of combat doesn't break a long rest, casting a single spell shouldn't either.
Natural sleep is now clarified to cause the unconscious condition, XgtE p77. Unconscious causes the incapacitated condition. Incapacitated causes loss of concentration.

Aaaaaand ... Oh hey, Darkvision is not a concentration spell. Huh, for some reason I thought it was.

Totally works to cast Extended Darkvision right before a Long Rest and get 8 hrs after its done.

Casting during a Long Rest breaking or not breaking the Rest, however, is a multi-page debate. Most recently here :
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?551238-Can-an-interrupted-long-rest-be-treated-as-a-short-rest&highlight=Long+Rest

[DarkKnightJin]

50 minutes straight of combat should break a long rest, and so should casting a spell. I'm aware of Crawford's tweets to the contrary, but (1) they are goofy, and (2) they contradict the plain meaning of the words in the PHB.



Two turn duration shield is mildly interesting (slightly more efficient than casting two separate Shields) but not broken. When I first started playing 5E, before I grokked the rules for Extend Spell, I actually thought this was legal, and while it was interesting and a tool I intended to put in my toolkit, it didn't excite my powergamer instincts.

For one thing, you can't even be sure when you cast the first Shield that you will need a Shield on round two. If your opponent misses your normal AC, it's wasted. Even in the best case where you would need a second shield, you just save 0.6 spell points. (2 spell points for a normal shield, 7/5 spell points per sorcery point at best, 2 - 7/5 = 0.6 spell points savings.)

I'd rather have (the Boon of) Spell Mastery for Shield. It'd be nice to have +5 AC whenever an enemy beats your AC by a little bit.

That said, something like Aid, Darkvision, or maybe Mind Blank would get stronger if you could bump up the duration more.

[MaxWilson]

I'd rather have (the Boon of) Spell Mastery for Shield. It'd be nice to have +5 AC whenever an enemy beats your AC by a little bit.

Heh. I'd rather have the Boon of Spell Mastery (Cure Wounds). Legal for Divine Soul or Celestial Warlock.

My favorite Spell Mastery for wizards is Unseen Servant. Notice that it has no curtain requirement and it stacks. Reenact /Sorcerer's Apprentice/ every day without the broomstick chaos part. :) Also has combat uses for Helping, laying caltrops/burning oil, clogging up the battlefield, etc. (They may only have 1 HP each but it still takes an attack to kill each one, barring AoEs.)

There's nothing wrong with free Shield, but it's harder to imagine scenarios where you'd really truly actually want to cast Shield dozens of times in a single day, but it's easy to imagine casting Unseen Servant dozens or even hundreds of times in a day. Unseen Servant is more proactive.

[Segev]

My favorite Spell Mastery for wizards is Unseen Servant. Notice that it has no curtain requirement and it stacks. Reenact /Sorcerer's Apprentice/ every day without the broomstick chaos part. :) Also has combat uses for Helping, laying caltrops/burning oil, clogging up the battlefield, etc. (They may only have 1 HP each but it still takes an attack to kill each one, barring AoEs.)

There's nothing wrong with free Shield, but it's harder to imagine scenarios where you'd really truly actually want to cast Shield dozens of times in a single day, but it's easy to imagine casting Unseen Servant dozens or even hundreds of times in a day. Unseen Servant is more proactive.
It is a lot of fun. I haven’t done it in 5e, but I’ve played a PF wizard with a command-activated item that casts unseen servant at will.

[DarkKnightJin]

Heh. I'd rather have the Boon of Spell Mastery (Cure Wounds). Legal for Divine Soul or Celestial Warlock.

My favorite Spell Mastery for wizards is Unseen Servant. Notice that it has no curtain requirement and it stacks. Reenact /Sorcerer's Apprentice/ every day without the broomstick chaos part. :) Also has combat uses for Helping, laying caltrops/burning oil, clogging up the battlefield, etc. (They may only have 1 HP each but it still takes an attack to kill each one, barring AoEs.)

There's nothing wrong with free Shield, but it's harder to imagine scenarios where you'd really truly actually want to cast Shield dozens of times in a single day, but it's easy to imagine casting Unseen Servant dozens or even hundreds of times in a day. Unseen Servant is more proactive.

I'm pretty sure that most DM's will axe the Cure Wounds Spell Mastery thing.
Though I agree that the Boon would have it be legal by RAW.
I don't use Unseen Servant enough to have thought about it. Something like Shield or Magic Missile would be something nice to have. Especially for something like an Eldritch Knight, that doesn't necessarily have a buffed casting stat.
Which my Eldritch Knight currently is.