Kingness! Kingdomify! Royalties!

[linklele]

Hello!
I'm currently writing my next campain for mid lv characters and i decided it will be a City-esque campain.
My player asked for some intrigue, conspiracy and the like, so i came up with this idea:

"A king died without heirs and now there is a power vaacum. Many are the factions that hope to rise in power: from Wizard that hope to enstablish Magocracy, Ruthless merchants, foreign conquerers, to wide-eye idealist youth that hope to do things right. But the king before his death left with an order: the next king will be the one to accomplish this feat"

Now. I already wrote for about 8 of these factions (of course not all are of the same importance, some are spare bullets i plan to use in case something goes awry...you know, players).
The point is i now need to decree the condition under wich one can become King, but here's the problem:
-Must be a Long-time goal (it is the final campain goal), so no grab-that-sword-in-the-rock
-Must be apt for different styles: The Bandit leader with all his minions must have the same chances as the poor Idealistic boy and the archmage with all is power.
-Must offer space for conspiracy, alliances and the like.

Now, I know it is not easy feat, (and thats why i'm asking for help), at first i thought something like having to go in different dungeons to conquer ancient relics of the kingdom past, but that leaves little to no room for diplomacy, alliances and secret plans. A tournament is even more straightforward, wich is no good.
Another idea would be the one who conquers and keeps the castle for a month (so a glorified game of king of the hill), but that would lead to a boring setting, as everything would revolve around the castle.

So... a Gold coin for your thoughts.

[dickerson76]

I like the idea, except that the old king sets the condition for becoming king. Without a line of succession, once the King is gone, his wishes are out the window. Have the ranking General impose a martial order while making it very clear that she DOES NOT want long-term rule responsibilities. She'll just maintain order and stability until the situation settles out and some consent on the next ruler is established.

I would worry about trying to get too far ahead though. If you set concrete "win conditions" too early, the players may hit them faster than you expect. If you want it to go long-term, the best thing may be to hold off on planning until you see how the players are going to react and who they're going to support and then play off of that. Let the players decide what faction they want to support and then have that contender set some milestones they think they'll need to hit to consolidate their claim. Starting off would probably just be gathering intel on the other contenders, what their aims are, and how to thwart those.

[Pex]

Go with tropes.

The king is dead but not really. He is reincarnated, his spirit exists, something that lets him know what's going on. He's looking for someone worthy of the crown but isn't pursuing it for its own sake. He's looking for someone who knows being King is a Responsibility. However, having your heart in the right place is not enough. You still need cunning and empowerment to be able to thwart those who would seek to overthrow you once you did become King.
True Leadership is needed.

Expect the PCs wanting themselves to be King. As they go through adventures hint at the beginning any one of them could be King (Queen). Whatever the Task is, the true Task is Kingship is bestowed not taken. You become King not because of what you did but because others want you to be. A PC can only become King when all the players agree that player's PC should be King. That's the final task for everyone. Everyone needs help, but they can only win the crown when the people who helped wants the Seeker to be King. Not paid off, bullied, enslaved, bribed, etc. Free Will want you to be King.

[linklele]

Go with tropes.
Expect the PCs wanting themselves to be King. As they go through adventures hint at the beginning any one of them could be King (Queen). Whatever the Task is, the true Task is Kingship is bestowed not taken. You become King not because of what you did but because others want you to be. A PC can only become King when all the players agree that player's PC should be King. That's the final task for everyone. Everyone needs help, but they can only win the crown when the people who helped wants the Seeker to be King. Not paid off, bullied, enslaved, bribed, etc. Free Will want you to be King.

That's basically the story of "Koning Van Katonen" by Jan Terlouw. (From wich i admit took inspiration and i STRONGLY suggest to read)
BUT that ensures only good king/queens will ascend to the throne, and the evil ones are cut out of the competition right away. I mean, the Bandit gang boss can't do that anymore and loses all his threat value. That is an ideal condition ad the risk is that the story becomes flat.

About the characters becoming rulers themselves of course i anticipated they will give it a thought.
I hypotized that there was already a "starting cerimony" for the competition and they are late to enroll, but I'm still torn about that, I dont really like shutting possibilities to my players. Although I planned the campain seeing them as aide, supporting one faction or another. Maybe I'll set some condition so they are very unlikely elegible but not completely out of question.


Have the ranking General impose a martial order while making it very clear that she DOES NOT want long-term rule responsibilities. She'll just maintain order and stability until the situation settles out and some consent on the next ruler is established.

I would worry about trying to get too far ahead though. If you set concrete "win conditions" too early, the players may hit them faster than you expect

Thats a Good point, the regent ensues there is some haste for the competition but doesnt mean it has to be ended in a week. But still, remains the point of HOW one is chosen to be king? Even without the win condition i feel i still need some goal. Else i'll have players wandering aimlessly without nothing to do other than murder-hobo everyone they encounter (yes, they are good characters, but we are still talking about power hungry dnd players:smalltongue:)

[malachi]

What if, instead of the king being dead already, he is just on his deathbed, and offers to make whoever can heal him will be made the heir. The king was cursed with something magical and evil, and there are several theories on what caused it (and each theory has several macguffins that could potentially cure him). That's one route for potentially removing the chance of someone just illegitimately taking control.

Another idea, which would allow the king to already be dead, would be to have the king's power come from a defined source - some magical macguffin that allows him to directly control something that the nation depends on (big magical construct guardian that can fight off armies and elder dragons, weather control to enable farming, etc.) - but that thing that the king derives his legitimacy from will kill anyone who tries to use it without going through a certain protocol (and the specifics of what needs to happen are hidden in the lore behind this king's ascension to the throne).
In this style, there are lots of stories of what the king did to take over the country - but all of them are cryptic and missing information that he intentionally hid out of fear that someone else would follow his footsteps and steal control from him. Now, the factions are all trying to do the tasks without letting anyone know what the tasks are.

[Slybluedemon]

Thats a Good point, the regent ensues there is some haste for the competition but doesnt mean it has to be ended in a week. But still, remains the point of HOW one is chosen to be king? Even without the win condition i feel i still need some goal. Else i'll have players wandering aimlessly without nothing to do other than murder-hobo everyone they encounter (yes, they are good characters, but we are still talking about power hungry dnd players:smalltongue:)

I agree, if there is no win condition then a civil war would break out. How about you go with the sword in stone but change it up? It's not just waiting for the right person to pull it, it's just waiting for someone to pull it.

2 conditions that must be completed for one to be named king or queen
1) The "Rod of Divine Selection" is to be located and obtained
2) The "Rod of Divine Selection" must then be brought to the throne room and placed onto the throne

Regent holds a ball and announces the Conditions that must be meet, Every party that has a bid for the throne learns about this rod from the Regent but not where it is located and will now use every resource to find the location of the rod.

[Pex]

5 gold coins have been randomly marked. Those who notice the mark can use the coin to pay the toll to cross a drawbridge to a castle. The one who survives whatever they find in the castle gets the Kingdom. Gnomes in the castle give riddles that help you survive the castle.

[Sigreid]

Have you seen Stardust? Perhaps a symbol of the throne magically rocketed off to who knows where and only a worthy candidate can find and return it? In that movie the royal amulet lost its color and flew off. It had to be returned by someone whose touch restored the color.

[linklele]

5 gold coins have been randomly marked. Those who notice the mark can use the coin to pay the toll to cross a drawbridge to a castle
That's... actually a great idea!
The king must "Buy" the throne with these coins, wich were given beforehand to some random people.
There are a lot of ways to get these coins! Coerce, steal, ask politely, akf in change of a favor... so anyone can, one way or another, get some of those! Meanwhile they can be stolen fom the player, information about their location can be traded and such...

Thanks so much!

[Nifft]

5 gold coins have been randomly marked. Those who notice the mark can use the coin to pay the toll to cross a drawbridge to a castle. The one who survives whatever they find in the castle gets the Kingdom. Gnomes in the castle give riddles that help you survive the castle.

Umpa-lumpa-lumpaty-doo,

I have a random monster for youuuuuu.

[Kane0]

The point is i now need to decree the condition under wich one can become King, but here's the problem:
-Must be a Long-time goal (it is the final campain goal), so no grab-that-sword-in-the-rock
-Must be apt for different styles: The Bandit leader with all his minions must have the same chances as the poor Idealistic boy and the archmage with all is power.
-Must offer space for conspiracy, alliances and the like.


Hmm, it would probably best be something at least somewhat vague, so everyone can give it a go and do it in their own way.

"Whomsoever rallies the greatest supporters by the eve of [cultural event]"
"Whomsoever accumulates and dedicates the greatest wealth in the name of [cultural hero]"
"Whomsoever leads the kingdom to its greatest victory since [historical event]"
"Whomsoever first succeeds where the founders of the kingdom once failed"

Something like that. The kind of thing where everybody will respond like "Oh yeah, got this in the bag! Now first I have to arrange the demise of my competitor(s), then start work on the most efficient plan of action, then the details of my grand coronation. Oh, and I'll probably need some scapego- I mean trustworthy allies!"

[Honest Tiefling]

About the characters becoming rulers themselves of course i anticipated they will give it a thought.
I hypotized that there was already a "starting cerimony" for the competition and they are late to enroll, but I'm still torn about that, I dont really like shutting possibilities to my players. Although I planned the campain seeing them as aide, supporting one faction or another. Maybe I'll set some condition so they are very unlikely elegible but not completely out of question.

I like the idea that there IS a way for them to become eligible, but it is very difficult. They can either spend their time at first trying to complete a VERY difficult task, or spend it ensuring their candidate gets their butt on the throne. As long as you make it clear ICly and OoCly that success is improbable, I see no reason not to include it as the players have a choice and not all goals can be completed else things seem weird.

The coin idea is nice, but perhaps it is the holy regalia of the king or five artifacts granted to the king? Gives it a regal oomph. Or even five keys.

As for the murder option...If the players are good aligned and the candidates seem like they'll cause widespread destruction, mayhem and misery due to their character or lack of competence...Well, I'd be worried about them taking a dip into the neutral side of the pool to avoid catastrophe. There is also the idea that a PC will make for a wonderful ruler due to being slightly more resistant to assassination.

Some 'plans' I could see players using:

Make false coins and sell them for a lot of money. Use money to bribe the current regent or otherwise get an army.
If the coins must be brought to an area, object, or people, secure it. What use are the coins if you can't turn them in?
Cause chaos by destroying a coin. In the chaos, rise to power to eliminate evil groups. Let the pampered nobles and unscrupulous merchants bicker over meaningless power while you actually get stuff done while they are distracted.

[JackPhoenix]

Convince an entity (a god, some sort of protector spirit for the kingdom, whatever) that you'll be a good king. It's not about your alignment or power, but about being good for the kingdom. The wizard? He may be powerful archmage, but does he have the ability to sway the people to his cause? Would his magocracy plan be good for the kingdom, or only for himself? The greedy merchant cartel may be full of anuses, but can they prove their rule would bring wealth and prosperity to the kingdom as a whole? The foreign conqueror may seem as a bad choice at first, but perhaps he'll bring roads, advanced medicine and much needed order. The idealist may not be of noble birth, but people love him... and kingdom without internal strife is a fortunate kingdom, and peaceful relations with neighbors are prefered to war. The bandit lord may turn into a conqueror himself, and weaken and conquer neighboring realms, ultimately benefitting his own. But it's not about words and promises, they muse prove their capability. The entity doesn't care who the ruler is, only that (s)he'll benefit the realm as a whole. Even if it leads to huge army of undead or demons destroying the rest of the world.

And anyone who starts a civil war is disqualified by default. Good luck with that.

[linklele]

Some 'plans' I could see players using:

Make false coins and sell them for a lot of money. Use money to bribe the current regent or otherwise get an army.
If the coins must be brought to an area, object, or people, secure it. What use are the coins if you can't turn them in?
Cause chaos by destroying a coin. In the chaos, rise to power to eliminate evil groups. Let the pampered nobles and unscrupulous merchants bicker over meaningless power while you actually get stuff done while they are distracted.

I love these ideas!
But i also love these ones:

"Whomsoever rallies the greatest supporters by the eve of [cultural event]"
"Whomsoever accumulates and dedicates the greatest wealth in the name of [cultural hero]"
"Whomsoever leads the kingdom to its greatest victory since [historical event]"
"Whomsoever first succeeds where the founders of the kingdom once failed"

They are both really good, and i'm torn between them: the coins are good because you have to interact with NPC in some way. It is better that they are coins cause they are unsuspicius and can be in the hand of anyone, pheraphs without even noticing. Regalias are a bit too obvious. Why should a random shopkeepr in the market have it?

The goals Kane0 proposed are good too because are clear in their objective, but leave ample margin of manouver on how to achieve them, and in that course of action anything can happen...

I'd like to discuss between these options and see wichever will work best. Or if you have another proposal just propose it!:smallwink:


Convince an entity (a god, some sort of protector spirit for the kingdom, whatever) that you'll be a good king.
Sounds a lot like Kingmakers from Ni No Kuni 2, wich can be good MacGuffins but still you have to prve worth, and to me the proposal of Kane0 are apt at showing you are.

[Kane0]

Whatever offers the most versimilitude to your game. How did this method come to be? Is there a precedent or tradition around it? Did the previous King get the throne this way? Who enforces and judges it? How can that be manipulated?

[Honest Tiefling]

They are both really good, and i'm torn between them: the coins are good because you have to interact with NPC in some way. It is better that they are coins cause they are unsuspicius and can be in the hand of anyone, pheraphs without even noticing. Regalias are a bit too obvious. Why should a random shopkeepr in the market have it?

When in doubt, combine the two. Gather the relics and do a thing.

For instance, maybe the founders failed to gather the relics. Maybe the relic counts as the greatest treasure you could give, in that it represents dedication, tradition, honor, and history which are worth more than gold.

The relics/coins could even be something someone else is doing, and not the king's work. Maybe some priests or the like want the relics and will back the person with them, fufilling the idea of the most supporters.

Or, the relics can combine to make an undead slaying weapon. Oh yeah, there's a sealed necropolis, so gathering the items will lead to the greatest victory since sealing it--Destroying it once and for all.

As for the relics/coins...It could be things like the sword of the first king. Mr. Kingypants didn't carve out a kingdom for himself with bling, but a good, sturdy unornamented sword to bash people's heads in. Of course, a blacksmith in a small town could easily hide one among his weapons.

[dickerson76]

How about this:
1) The throne is bought and this is a major fund-raising activity for the kingdom. The initial buy-in is one of the 5 coins. They are released to the populace and then three weeks later is the beginning of the contest. They can be bought, found, traded-for, etc. Only by turning in one of the coins at Buy-In day can you be eligible for the throne and rest of the contest.
2) The contest lasts four months. Each contestant is assigned an account. Anybody can contribute money to the account of their choice. It's kind of like voting, but every gold piece is another vote. Count McDuck can contribute his own fortune to bolster his account, or Lady Grassroots can get everyone in the kingdom to contribute all their pocket change on her behalf. This opens it up to sending the PCs out on money-making treasure hunts, alliance building, favor trading, lobbying, rumor-mongering, etc. All account values are kept secret.
3) At the end of each month, the balance of each fund is announced in a public spectacle and the person with the lowest account balance is out of the contest. At this point, all funds collected in all accounts become the property of the treasury/public works fund. So after one month, there are only four contestants and those four all restart with 0gp in their accounts. After two months it goes down to three. I can imagine that there is a lot of strategy in amassing funds and deciding when to donate. You want to get enough in your account to stay in, but every extra donated is (assuming you're still in it) one less you have to contribute in the next month. There is no benefit to having the most in your account... or maybe there is to encourage more donations early on. Maybe the person with the most gets a 5000gp head start in the next month (or some token value in line with the level of donations).
4) The last person remaining after each elimination round is declared king and all the money raised go towards the benefit of the people (public works projects).

As a trump card, there is some [ancient relic] that is prominent in the kingdom's history. The relic was broken and the pieces lost (or some of the pieces, there are enough left that the relic is accepted as being real rather than folklore). Anyone that can bring any of the missing pieces gets an automatic pass to the next round. This cannot be used when there are three or fewer contestants remaining. The easy pieces were all found long ago. No one has turned one in for the past several generations.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

Breaks the second condition. The merchants have huge advantage, because they already have vast wealth, and there are tons of ways for an archmage to make a lot of money quickly. Meanwhile, everyone else is out of luck.

[Chaosmancer]

That's basically the story of "Koning Van Katonen" by Jan Terlouw. (From wich i admit took inspiration and i STRONGLY suggest to read)
BUT that ensures only good king/queens will ascend to the throne, and the evil ones are cut out of the competition right away. I mean, the Bandit gang boss can't do that anymore and loses all his threat value. That is an ideal condition ad the risk is that the story becomes flat.


This is only an idea that removes people from the running if you assume the old king was wise and good.

The thrust of those types of stories was that everyone thought the king would favor the wealthy or the powerful, but instead favored the good hearted person who was neither wealthy or powerful. And, you want to keep this potential alive by having the young idealist candidate. But that story follows expectations.

What if the king is not wise and can be swayed?

Or, perhaps rail road a tiny bit. The players have a choice very early on. They can help the young idealist or not. He's gonna keep trying either way, but the only way he has a true chance of succeeding is if the players support him. If they choose not to, and instead support a more morally grey individual then you've got a crime lord, an archmage, and a merchant lord, probably throw in a general or a priest as well so you have all the aspects of society represented.

Then, they can all be on equal footing for this quest for the relics, each having about the same amount of societal power and alliances can arise. In fact, I'm wondering why the criminal even wants the throne instead of working deals with the front runner to get themselves in good with the next ruler.

But you can't artificially make them all even when you include the youth, unless he's got the future heroes of the kingdom helping.

[Coretex]

Another idea, which would allow the king to already be dead, would be to have the king's power come from a defined source - some magical macguffin that allows him to directly control something that the nation depends on (big magical construct guardian that can fight off armies and elder dragons, weather control to enable farming, etc.) - but that thing that the king derives his legitimacy from will kill anyone who tries to use it without going through a certain protocol (and the specifics of what needs to happen are hidden in the lore behind this king's ascension to the throne).
In this style, there are lots of stories of what the king did to take over the country - but all of them are cryptic and missing information that he intentionally hid out of fear that someone else would follow his footsteps and steal control from him. Now, the factions are all trying to do the tasks without letting anyone know what the tasks are.

This is fantastic. It allows every group to pursue a different path suited to their characters (and potentially come into conflict with the PCs) while also allowing LOTS of opportunity for diplomacy since everyone knows only a part of the puzzle (and is probably lying about how big that part is).
The Archmage is probably locked up with the artifact trying to brute force a new key, ready to kill anyone who gets too close to it (thus providing a legitimately scary reason to "do it the hard way" of following the original king's footsteps)
The Bandit captain is probably waylaying anyone related to his known competitors to steal their leads.
The Rich lord is probably sending troops consecutively through the dungeons the old king cleared to look for clues.
The Secret society probably knows the most, but has little manpower so perhaps is manipulating others to do the work for them.
The Archivist knows many of the secrets, but has decided to go for the throne himself so is running around disguised.
Etc!

Anything can be a part of it (coins, tournaments, whatever!) and the best part is that you don't need to clearly define the path to victory at the start, but they do get a clear objective.