[3.X] Sigil and "Cross Setting Contamination"

[Thurbane]

So, just a general comment/question: does anyone use the city of Sigil as an excuse for material from one setting to appear in another?

If not Sigil specifically, what other methods do you use?

Or do you just take material from one setting and file off the serial numbers to use in your game?

My Daelkyr Half Blood Mystic/Auspician would love to know! :smalltongue:

Cheers - T

[Nifft]

Usually I'm making a custom homebrew setting so the idea of "contamination" doesn't apply.

If we all think that a Daelkyr Halfblood makes thematic sense, then there'll be an explanation for it to exist -- which might not be the same as one would expect in Eberron, but that's fine.

[Malimar]

Mostly I just use stuff as if it's native, but when a player wanted to use a Kalashtar, their fluff is just way too tied to Eberron's cosmology, so I decided there's a town of Kalashtar who are descended from refugees who left Eberron via Spelljammer, fleeing the Inspired.

[Jowgen]

Personally, I run my multiverse based on the idea that the 3 main setting spheres are kind of like the "old world", so to speak. They happen to contain the 3 material plane worlds that have been around the longest, to the point that they are well known and have produced many a cosmically significant personage (e.g. Vecna arguably being Greyhawk's most successful son).

Other worlds in their age category suffered extinction events or never really managed to make an extraplanar impact (Athos basically fits both categories).

My main setting falls into the category of "new world" spheres. These worlds were settled a mere couple millennia ago by people originally from other settings, all of whom took some of their old gods with them Neil Gaiman style.

[Sleven]

More options are generally more fun. I play to have fun. So regardless of what setting I'm using or playing in almost nothing is setting exclusive.

[Fizban]

If I'm going to let people use whatever they want, then I probably haven't established much of a setting- in that case, the setting is already a mish mash of whatever people want/specifically dis-want. If I've decided to make a specific setting, then anything specifically not part of that setting won't be appearing because is was specifically de-selected- but I've also got a vague idea of attaching some extra slush numbers to city generation for rando classes that are too minor to count on a setting scale but still exist so people can use them.

But an established setting, there's the problem. As much as they try to say that "everything has a place in Eberron," it really doesn't. Unless the later books established enough extra continents that there really is room to just cram anything in there, like Forgotten Realms. Eberron just seems to be laser focused on a few special ideas and recent history that don't actually interface with anything, which only gives things a place in the sense that nothing has a place. Forgotten Realms on the other hand has so many fallen humanoid empires over so much landmass that you can justify just about anything bubbling back up from somewhere.

Except its not really a problem, because you've already got infinite planes. And indeed, why would you need lol Sigil to do the job when whatever it is can just. . . come from some remote region on another plane? Or be an entirely new thing that an outsider came up with and taught a mortal for the lulz?

Anyway, if I specifically wanted to have something be from an "outside" setting, I'd be far more inclined to use the Deep Shadow or the World Serpent Inn, or some other nexus plane. The inn-plane is pretty kitschy, and alternate material planes behind the deep shadow does beg the annoying question of parallel/evil alternate world plots, but those are both better than trying to use Spelljammer lore to justify things when it basically just seems to be "sailing, but for epic levels." (And if that sounds completely off base, that just goes to show how much I know and thus shouldn't be using it).

[Zombimode]

Yeah, if you are in a multiplanar setting and just want the mechanics and General fluff of a Daelkyr half-blood, just make it so. Just don't claim you are actually from Eberron.

[Efrate]

My current long running game which is nearing completion uses it as a neutral place for emissaries of the gods to interact. None of my players thought to use it for ease of planar travel when the planes are currently a tangled ball of timey whimey bits, so they did it all the harder ways. The lady actually serves as a plot hook when the players met her and she cleansed some of them of the taint of Amadeus who recently ascended when they were near. For an unspecified favor tied to a minor trinket that they just can't seem to get rid of.

It's a cop out excuse to use a lot of eberron, ravenloft, grayhawk, forgotten realms, weird far plane and alternate reality material planes bits and pieces. They just pass through sigil to get there. It's also a nice base of operations for bbegs, because it's magically non interactive so cloak and dagger or investigative plotlines are saved from "I cast divination x and know" without some very careful roundabout methods. It's a failsafe I haven't needed to use but it's nice to have just in case.

[BowStreetRunner]

My own campaigns all use custom settings in which I cherry-pick what I want and adapt it to my needs. A player would simply need to present me with a request and I would consider how best to fit it into my setting.

Other campaigns in which I have played have dealt with this issue in different ways, but there was one in which there were alternate prime material planes in existence and the DM basically suggested that every setting in D&D existed somewhere in the multiverse of his campaign. There were a variety of methods of inter-planar travel and although I don't specifically recall Sigil ever coming up, I'm sure it would have been incorporated in some way.

In that campaign, if you wanted something suitably complex, the most common explanation was that you had spent time on a Spelljammer vessel and a member of the crew from the other setting had taught you. We had lots of former Spelljammer pirates hanging around, apparently.

[AnonymousPepper]

I did exactly this in a multiversal setting, and I more or less embraced the "contamination." Eberron - particularly House Kundarak, because leave it to a bunch of intelligent, savvy bankers to immediately figure out how to go colonial or at least exploit a new opportunity like another universe or two or twelve - pretty much ran rampant over everything, but the other settings got their cultural licks in, so to speak. Red Wizards launching schemes on other worlds to gain the edge they need to finally conquer Rashemen and Halruua. Waterdeep exploiting the talent for hire in the Pathfinder Society to finally properly explore and chart the Undermountain. Kender being turned back at the border because screw Kender holy crap why do you people tolerate this stuff. You know, that sort of thing.

So I'd not only allow but encourage something like a daelkyr half-blood, with the serial numbers not only left on but maybe even highlighted and painted a bit. It'd be a great addition.

[Bronk]

Everything's allowed in my campaigns, and if anyone cares to find out why they can discover planar travel, portal systems, Planescape, Spelljammer, Sigil, the World Serpent Inn, the works. It's all in.

[SLOTHRPG95]

So, just a general comment/question: does anyone use the city of Sigil as an excuse for material from one setting to appear in another?

If not Sigil specifically, what other methods do you use?

Or do you just take material from one setting and file off the serial numbers to use in your game?

My Daelkyr Half Blood Mystic/Auspician would love to know! :smalltongue:

Cheers - T

I ran an entire campaign like this for a few years. The players had a lot of fun, they didn't have to worry about the Crane Clan Shugenja and the Warforged Warmage and the Gullydwarf Rogue all coming from drastically different worlds.

[Dawgmoah]

Everything's allowed in my campaigns, and if anyone cares to find out why they can discover planar travel, portal systems, Planescape, Spelljammer, Sigil, the World Serpent Inn, the works. It's all in.

Since swapping to 3.5 years ago I just let anything in, see how the player's react to it/use it, and then decide whether to let it in again based on that experience. Sometimes though its the player and not the material. Using a completely home-made campaign world helps of course. Like mentioned before; some of the more Eberron specific items (for example) take some explaining. I can generally tell what players go and read the min-max stuff and try to weave feats and classes from ten different sources. I let them do it: what the hey. It's all entertainment.

[Cosi]

I mostly agree with the people who are advocating for refluffing based solutions. Adding Sigil as a reason why someone is a Daelkyr Half Blood or a Red Wizard or Vecna-Blooded in a setting that isn't Eberron, Faerun, or Greyhawk is generally going to be more work and more disruption than just finding some place those things can exist in whatever the setting is. In general, part of good setting building for a RPG is leaving blank spots where players can put things that they think are cool you happen not to have thought of. If a player shows up asking to play a Lizardfolk Incarnate, and your response is to tell them that's impossible because there's nowhere in the world for that character to be from, I think you've failed in your world-building process.

All that said, having other worlds is an entirely reasonable setting element. I don't think there's any particularly good reason for those worlds to be the established D&D campaign settings, but having some other worlds for people to visit where things are different makes for some interesting stories.

[unseenmage]

Yes. Yes I do.

I also use the Plane of Shadow and Deep Shadow as a crossing point, albeit a longer more tortuous route.

Also, theoretically, the Dreamheart or any other xtreme conflict of extpraplanar power.

Then there's Faerun and Golarion both canonically connecting to our world to consider.


More rarely I've even heard of GMs allowing Gate, or even simple Plane Shift, to access alternate Prime Materials or cosmologies.

Oh, and also Spelljammer. Because it's cool.

[AnonymousPepper]

Yes. Yes I do.

I also use the Plane of Shadow and Deep Shadow as a crossing point, albeit a longer more tortuous route.

Also, theoretically, the Dreamheart or any other xtreme conflict of extpraplanar power.

Then there's Faerun and Golarion both canonically connecting to our world to consider.


More rarely I've even heard of GMs allowing Gate, or even simple Plane Shift, to access alternate Prime Materials or cosmologies.

Oh, and also Spelljammer. Because it's cool.

When I ran it, I ruled that only Wish could directly take you between different Primes. You could (Greater) Plane Shift into Sigil and then (Greater) Plane Shift to another Prime, but going directly from one to another was hard.

Also, more generally, don't forget the Underdark. The Underdark goes everywhere if you go deep enough. Except Athas. Athas is boned. Them's the rules, I'm afraid. (And maybe the Demiplane of Dread, depending; I'd probably handle that as "You can come any time you like, but you can never leave!")

[unseenmage]

...

Also, more generally, don't forget the Underdark. The Underdark goes everywhere if you go deep enough. Except Athas. Athas is boned. Them's the rules, I'm afraid. (And maybe the Demiplane of Dread, depending; I'd probably handle that as "You can come any time you like, but you can never leave!")
The Underdark connects directly to the Shadow Plane at its deepest. That's why it can connect to other worlds.

As for the Demiplane of Dread, only those amusing to the Dark Powers are trapped there. It's my understanding that the mists disgorge as many as they claim. Sojourns in Ravenloft tend to be temporary for all but the most entertainingly vile.