View Full Version : Baleful Transposition

2007-09-10, 12:22 PM
Having just gained access to the Miniatures Handbook, I have only recently encountered this (and it's Benign friend) and fallen in love with it (along with Slide and Greater Slide...they rock!). Anyways, I was thinking about how to use these tasty spells of tastyness and it occured to me that you could cast it on someone who was grappling...

...now, what happens in this occurence? Let's take some examples:

There are two opposing sides; A and B, each consisting of 2 members; A1 and A2 and B1 and B2. Assume that all are Medium creatures and that all Saves are failed.

Situation 1
- A1 is Grappling B1
- A2 and B2 are otherwise unengaged
- A2 (a Wizard) Casts Baleful Transposition on A1 and B2 (thereby switching their positions)
- B1 and B2 are now in the same space...do they count as being in a Grapple? Or do they immediately move to occupy 2 spaces and thus do not count as Grappling?

Situation 2
- A1 is Grappling B1
- A2 and B2 are otherwise unengaged
- A2 casts Benign Transposition on himself and A1
- Are A2 and B1 now Grappling?

Situation 3
- A1 and B1 Grappling (A2 and B2 unengaged)
- A2 casts Baleful Transposition on B2 and B1
- Is A1 now Grappling B2?

Aside from the Grapple situation, how about the following?

Situation 4
- A2 Readies an Action to cast Baleful Transposition if he's Charged
- B2 Charges A2, triggering the Readied Action.
- A2 targets himself and B2 with BT
- A2/B2 switch places
- What happens to B2's Charge and/or the rest of his turn? If he were to continue in a straight line (as per legal Charge rules), he'd be moving away from the original target of his charge (A2).

Situation 5
- B1 is mounted on a Warhorse
- A2 Readies and action to cast BT if Charged (as per Situation 4)
- B1 Charges A2
- A2 targets himself and B1's Horse
- A2 and Horse switch places
- ???

Situation 6
- As (5), except A2 targets B1 and B1's Horse... :smalltongue:

2007-09-11, 02:06 AM
1) They are in the same space. Two creatures can occupy the same space, though they are not grappling (I guess they are hugging now?).
2) Yes, although new grapple roles ensue.
3) See 2.
4) Umm... he'd stop in 5ft or so?
5) B1 falls to the ground rolling, the horse is confused, and you are standing where horse was facing the wrong direction.
6) Horse falls on B1 about 5ft in front of where they were due to momentum.

At least thats what I think.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-11, 09:14 AM
(1) I'd say that B2 appears in B1's grappling hold, then B1 looks in surprise and releases the hold, and the two get up in slightly bemused manner (unless B1 was, say, a frenzied berserker). I'd allow either a bemused five-foot step away in some random direction.

(2) The character 'porting in is too confused for a split second to start a grapple immediately, so it's B1's decision whether he wants to keep the hold.

If this gets into really confusing situations, I'd say the DM is quite within his rights to either have the spell transport both grappling people, or have it fail.

(4) B2 will abort his charge and swirl around to face A2 angrily. Barring exceptional maneuverability (top-class flight, perhaps) he can only attack A2 if the two turn out to be within reach, which seems unlikely. Except if B2 is some really frenzied or mindless entity, in which case he would complete his full movement in his original direction, where of course there's nothing to attack.

(5) Assuming the spell works on large creatures (don't have the book around), the horse teleports out from under B1, who moves one more square in the direction he was moving (out of momentum and convenience) and falls to the ground, taking a minor amount of damage unless he passes a tumbling check. Since he ends up next to A2, he should be able to make a single non-charge attack, but at a severe penalty.

(6) This is a clever way of unhorsing someone. B1 ends up on the ground with a horse hovering over him. Horse falls, and takes damage accordingly. B1 should make a ref save; if he passes, he moves one square away and is unhurt (but no longer charging). If he fails, he takes damage from the falling horse, and ends up pinned underneath.