What would break if all spells were rituals?

[Greywander]

Wish spam is the obvious one, but that could be fixed by explicitly making Wish once per long rest, even if you are still able to cast 9th level spells.

My line of thinking is that if you have the time and the components, why wouldn't you be able to cast any spell as a ritual? Sure, a ritual Fireball isn't usable in combat, but there might be a situation where you want a Fireball and aren't pressed for time (or maybe you're setting up an ambush and using the ritual to prep the first shot?).

You'd probably want to reduce the number of spell slots for classes with ritual casting if you went this route (also what about the Ritual Caster feat? or Pact of the Tome warlocks?), maybe convert to a spell point system with drastically fewer spell points than the DMG gives out.

I've also thought that a caster class that casts all of their spells as rituals would be interesting. Seems like it would fit better with a low magic setting.

[CTurbo]

I like it but there are too many obvious issues by allowing it. Ritual Meteor Swarm? Ritual simulacrum? Foresight? Greater Restoration, True Resurrection, etc...

The actual costs and components would have to be huge in order to not trivialize healing, death, and conditions

[Lunali]

First one that comes to mind for me is healing between combat.

[superstrijder15]

Casual planar travel and teleportation for all reasonably high characters, all lvl 19 and 20 casters can use ritual meteor swarm to pummel any army or fortification to death in a day or so destroying any traditional army or country easily. Ritual Resurrection spells become an issue that trivialises character death.

[dreast]

Animate Dead would become brutal.

[Unoriginal]

My line of thinking is that if you have the time and the components, why wouldn't you be able to cast any spell as a ritual?

Because there is such thing as balance, and having all wizards going around with Mage Armor constantly on with 0 cost and 0 investment aside from picking up the spell, to give one example, would be quite bad for said balance.



Sure, a ritual Fireball isn't usable in combat, but there might be a situation where you want a Fireball and aren't pressed for time

Use a flint and tinder, then.



(or maybe you're setting up an ambush and using the ritual to prep the first shot?).

And why the hell should casters get free ressources like that?



You'd probably want to reduce the number of spell slots for classes with ritual casting if you went this route (also what about the Ritual Caster feat? or Pact of the Tome warlocks?), maybe convert to a spell point system with drastically fewer spell points than the DMG gives out.

Sounds more tedious that it needs to be to me, but if you like that kind of things and have players who like that kind of things, go for it.



I've also thought that a caster class that casts all of their spells as rituals would be interesting. Seems like it would fit better with a low magic setting.

Seems that it would be rather unplayable as a class. You could make it a feat to add to an existing class and ban the other casters, maybe.

[MrStabby]

I do like the spell point idea - at least if your characters are into complexity. Different spell-points for different casting times could work. If you wanted to eliminate the sorcerer class you could even take it up to bonus actions for shortening casting time.

What do you give non-casters in this world though to compensate them for their relative loss of flexability? Or is the compensation that they have few enough spell points that they can cast significantly fewer spells than they otherwise would?

[Lunali]

Casual planar travel and teleportation for all reasonably high characters, all lvl 19 and 20 casters can use ritual meteor swarm to pummel any army or fortification to death in a day or so destroying any traditional army or country easily. Ritual Resurrection spells become an issue that trivialises character death.

Making rez a ritual doesn't trivialize character death, it just lets people that can already rez do so faster by not having to burn spell slots on it.

[MrStabby]

Making rez a ritual doesn't trivialize character death, it just lets people that can already rez do so faster by not having to burn spell slots on it.

True. Also resurrection is usually relatively high level effect for most campaigns. The whole "because Joe failed his death saves you don't get to play with your high level ability this session" kind of sucks. You can make ritual resurrection take longer anyway - all this does is spread the burden of recovering downed party members across the whole party rather than one individual.

[nickl_2000]

-Stone wall and stone shape would be interesting. You could build yourself an entire fort in about a day.
-Many non-concentration buffs would be trivial (darkvision, longstrider, mage armor, freedom of movement, foresight!!!!, and death ward for example)
-Any object in the way, ever, would be disintegrated
-Fabricate would likely completely destroy the economy
-Hallucinatory Terrain would be interesting...
-Infinite out of combat healing with healing spells (especially healing spirit)
-Effects that can be cured by lesser restoration become trivial as soon as the encounter ends
-So many goodberries.....
-Put a Geas on everyone and everything!

[sophontteks]

Casters have limited resources based around a certain number of encounters per level. These are not just combat encounters, but rather any encounter. By allowing them to cast pretty much anything outside of combat, they are free to nova all their most powerful spells in combat. This is a huge power spike for casters overall.

This hurts rogues, monks, and fighters quite alot as they see no benefit from this. Just a simple side effect of buffing casters. Are casters underpowered? I don't think so. I think this buff would negatively impact class balance.

As for specific spells. There are many spells that break, but most of the obvious ones were already mentioned.
Healing out of combat becomes so trivial that we might as well write it off as "Everyone is at full health post-combat."
Summoning spells obviously break.
Buffing spells like Mage armor, bark skin, enhance ability, and aid.
Teleportation and movement spells.

Most of the ritual spells are weaker spells, which is why they can be cast as a ritual without costing spell slots. More powerful effects require more then drawing a circle on the ground and dancing around it with your jam band.

But a class focused on it? Hell yeah.
Great idea IMO. It'll take work getting the spell tree right and the class will need more to work. I think maybe a class that can use rituals to give other buffs as well that enhance the party's (and their own) combat ability. A class focused on preparing ahead of time that struggles in an ambush.

[Wilb]

I'd probably change a lot of stuff for the non-ritual ritual spells to keep at least the illusion of balance.

Maybe requiring (squared spell level) extra casters of the same class (of any level) or casters of any class capable of casting the spell, per spell level and making these non standard rituals take 1h per spell level, and locking them to the base spell level, to diminish healing spams. Probably requiring a hundred times (or 365 to match year long castings?) the material components, if any.

In this way only spellcaster guilds/colleges/cabals/churches could reliably cast high level rituals, and they would need a very high level character. It is an adequate way to give a nice setting for a campaign with many magic items and historical events based on powerful magical effects.

[nickl_2000]

More powerful effects require more then drawing a circle on the ground and dancing around it with your jam band.


Unless you are a bard, in that case this is exactly how you cast most of your spells

[sophontteks]

Unless you are a bard, in that case this is exactly how you cast most of your spells
Calling a bard a jam band is an insult to their talent. They are musical gods.

[Willie the Duck]

My line of thinking is that if you have the time and the components, why wouldn't you be able to cast any spell as a ritual?

Before even engaging the premise, is there anything prompting this (other than simple curiosity) besides 'why not?' I mean, I can just take "why wouldn't you be able to...," and come back with, "well, why would you be able to...?" What actual purpose are we trying to achieve? Is there a balance between combat-useful spells and out-of-combat spells that you are trying to address? A caster-martial balance? Something else?


You'd probably want to reduce the number of spell slots for classes with ritual casting if you went this route

What this would do is cause combat-centric builds to be less possible (or at least weaker). Is that the intended goal?

[MilkmanDanimal]

Calling a bard a jam band is an insult to their talent. They are musical gods.

I've known Grateful Dead fans who would have some issue with that distinction. And now I'm thinking of ways to phrase Bard spells as Dead songs. Sleep is "Jerry's never finishing this solo, I need a nap." Dissonant Whispers is "I shouldn't have taken the brown acid, man." Vicious Mockery is "You think 'Touch of Grey' was a sellout? That hurts me to my core, dude."

I'll stop now.

Anyways . . .

Making all spells rituals means every character gets fully healed in between combats, making hit dice 100% irrelevant and short rests far less desirable, which makes Monks and Warlocks so much worse. Wizards could cast Mage Armor every day, no cost. You want Darkvision? Hey, free Darkvision for everybody. You know what, guys, let's sit down for a minute so I can cast Greater Invisibility or Conjure Elemental or Stoneskin before every single combat.

Yeah, no.

[JNAProductions]

It's a significant power boost for casters. To the point where I think you'd be foolish to play non-casters in a game like this. (Not necessarily full casters every time-you could use SOME frontliners-but a pure Barbarian is gimped, relatively.)

So no, not a fan. I'll echo some others-what are you trying to accomplish? Or is this just "What if?"

[KorvinStarmast]

What would break if all spells were rituals? The game, specifically the whole magic system. Ritual casting is limited to certain spells with certain features. This wasn't random.

[Naanomi]

I would never not be scrying or summoning

[Lombra]

I get the feel that you want to create, but it should have a risk, or a cost. Casting ritually this way could prompt levels of exhaustion for example.

[Sigreid]

I get the feel that you want to create, but it should have a risk, or a cost. Casting ritually this way could prompt levels of exhaustion for example.

It could also be limited with material requirements. Rituals require prepared circles with tunes, candles, inscense, perhaps even a sacrafice of some sort. Maybe even more than one participant. All of this would take significant setup. Casters could, of course, prepare a room in their own home for a particular ritual.

Oh, and it would make ritual caster and the tome warlock ridiculously powerful.

[PeteNutButter]

Potentially very game breaking but might be balanced by applying a monetary cost to the rituals. Spells that weren’t previously rituals consume materials that cost the spell level squared times 100 gold.

That actually sounds like a fun feat.

[Vogie]

Where did you fall on this recent thread "Can rituals be cast while walking/moving/riding?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559906-Can-rituals-be-cast-while-walking-moving-riding)

That would also be something to consider.

[RSP]

Also keep in mind, grabbing the Ritual Caster feat would make you a full caster, so ina sense, this wouldn’t hurt Fighters, Rogues or Vhumans: it would just become a mandatory 1st feat pick up.

Full fighter with every spell in the book would probably be one of, if not the, best classes: all those attacks and any spell as a ritual.

[Spiritchaser]

Healing, as mentioned earlier, is the very first thing that comes to mind. Any party with any healing magic will be entering virtually every fight at full health at little or no cost. These spells would need to be barred or the game would need to be rebalanced around this

Summons with long durations, as mentioned earlier, would present a similar problem. These would need to be barred or the game rebalanced.

Long duration persistent buffs, most especially those without concentration, from mage armor and nondetection up to glibness and of course foresight could be spammed on everything. These would need to be barred or the game would need to be rebalanced around this.

High power, resource limited utility spells would likely present a balance issue, but possibly not, this one might just possibly be ok in some cases.

Probably more issues than this...

You’d be spending a lot of time cleaning up the balance issues you create by doing this... is it really worth is?

[Tetrasodium]

Because there is such thing as balance, and having all wizards going around with Mage Armor constantly on with 0 cost and 0 investment aside from picking up the spell, to give one example, would be quite bad for said balance.




While I agree that there are a ton of problems with having all spells be ritual, I find it odd that wizards casting mage armor for free 13+dex ac as the focal point of the problem.

I direct you to the first level sorcerer ability


D r a c o n i c R e s i l i e n c e
As magic flows through your body, it causes physical traits of your dragon ancestors to emerge. At 1st level, your hit point maximum increases by 1 and increases by 1 again whenever you gain a level in this class.
Additionally, parts of your skin are covered by a thin sheen of dragon-like scales. When you aren’t wearing armor, your AC equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier.


I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but a lot more spells should be ritual for a wizard given how a 4/4 scorlock has 7 cantrips & 10 spells known before adding the free archtype spells, many of them spells a wizard can not even learn

[RSP]

While I agree that there are a ton of problems with having all spells be ritual, I find it odd that wizards casting mage armor for free 13+dex ac as the focal point of the problem.

I direct you to the first level sorcerer ability



I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but a lot more spells should be ritual for a wizard given how a 4/4 scorlock has 7 cantrips & 10 spells known before adding the free archtype spells, many of them spells a wizard can not even learn

Just to clarify, are you saying the Wizard needs a boost as it’s underpowered compared to other casters?

[Naanomi]

While I agree that there are a ton of problems with having all spells be ritual, I find it odd that wizards casting mage armor for free 13+dex ac as the focal point of the problem.

I direct you to the first level sorcerer ability



I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but a lot more spells should be ritual for a wizard given how a 4/4 scorlock has 7 cantrips & 10 spells known before adding the free archtype spells, many of them spells a wizard can not even learn
So that cool Sorcerer ability, one that saves 1-2 first level spell slots per day, would become pure ribbon; first level dragon Sorcerers would get nothing productive compared to other Sorcerers and wizards

and a 4/4 sorclok has 4 first level spells and 3 <+2> second level spells... an 8th level wizard has 4/3/3/2... of the two I know which I’d generally prefer (the one with fourth level spells... and for what it matters 20+ spells in the book)

[Rixitichil]

Ritual Caster powered Clairvoyance and Thunder Step/Dimension Door comes online very early.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Just to clarify, are you saying the Wizard needs a boost as it’s underpowered compared to other casters?

I think the point is that Ritual-cast Mage Armor is far from game-breaking, especially once you hit mid-level and a tax of a single 1st level spell slot isn't such a big deal anyways. Don't worry, the mages would still be squishy due to other factors (like most importantly a lack of hit points).

[MilkmanDanimal]

I think the point is that Ritual-cast Mage Armor is far from game-breaking, especially once you hit mid-level and a tax of a single 1st level spell slot isn't such a big deal anyways. Don't worry, the mages would still be squishy due to other factors (like most importantly a lack of hit points).

No, it's not game-breaking at all, but it's incredibly handy for a few levels, at which point other spells come online. Greater Invisibility makes the first round of combat a slaughter-fest. Clairvoyance or Arcane Eye make a rogue's stealth and recon abilities completely irrelevant. Summon spells mean you can have a private army before every battle. Injured in a dungeon? Do a ritual to scribe a Teleportation Circle on the ground, head home for a while, and teleport back.

Free Mage Armor is useful, but, when this extends to other spells, it's pretty crazy what a wizard could do.

[Willie the Duck]

I think the point is that Ritual-cast Mage Armor is far from game-breaking, especially once you hit mid-level and a tax of a single 1st level spell slot isn't such a big deal anyways. Don't worry, the mages would still be squishy due to other factors (like most importantly a lack of hit points).

Well, first (and stipulated as minor points), once you've hit mid-level, you've played a significant portion of the game. Plus you need to survive to reach mid level.

Regardless, I don't think we're simply trying to answer if individual issues are game-breaking or not, simply what the consequences of making all spells into rituals would be. This one is pertinent specifically because it does effect what early level play would look like, and whether people would or wouldn't be taking the Dragon Sorcerer sorcerous archetype. That seems to me to be highly pertinent to the OP's question.

[Laserlight]

You'd need to change the amount of time rituals take--2-3 hours, for instance--or have other limits. Might need assistant casters (who will usually want to be paid), specific times of day and/or year, locations, or components.

[Naanomi]

Ritual mage Armor turns the dragon sorcerer ability from “save 1-2 first level spell slots and a spell known” (both highly relevant to mid-level play, the later relevant for Sorcerers through their career) to “save 10-20 minutes every morning”

On the same line of thinking, a lot of the Warlock ‘cast this spell unlimited times’ invocations become pretty crappy investments

[ruy343]

Just a note here: the O.L.D. roleplaying game system allows this sort of thing by reducing the magic point cost of any spell if you choose to take longer to cast it. The system is not terribly complicated, but it also allows you to cast things you wouldn't normally be able to cast by increasing the amount of time to cast, thus reducing the magic point cost to a level that you can actually pay.

It's a neat system, which I think that a lot of people on the playground would enjoy, give how so many people are asking for crunch all the time.

[Tetrasodium]

Just to clarify, are you saying the Wizard needs a boost as it’s underpowered compared to other casters?




So that cool Sorcerer ability, one that saves 1-2 first level spell slots per day, would become pure ribbon; first level dragon Sorcerers would get nothing productive compared to other Sorcerers and wizards

and a 4/4 sorclok has 4 first level spells and 3 <+2> second level spells... an 8th level wizard has 4/3/3/2... of the two I know which I’d generally prefer (the one with fourth level spells... and for what it matters 20+ spells in the book)

To both of you, I was pointing at the sorcerer ability to have 13 ac as an example of why talking about "free" mage armor as a concern is ridiculous. I wouldn't say that wizard is "underpowered compared to other casters" so much as the fact that scorlock has so many archtype options that there is practically no downside to doing it & because of invocations & other class abilities from both sides it turns scorlock something that makes all other classes seem a bit unloved. Naaomi your math is a bit wrong though. I just thought it was odd that someone would be concerned about a wizard being able to spam mage armor as a ritual spell

a 4/4 scorlock has 14 sorcery points worth of spellsa nd regains 4 every short rest. Those can be allocated to any first or second level spell slot usage desired as long as they don't try to create more than they have slots of that spell level at a 1:1 point:slot*level rate. the choice of 4/4 was not accidental, that is about where the divergence really starts to take off.
With one more sorcerer level they gain 2x 3rd level slots for 6 more sorcery points.
With one more warlock level they gain an invocation and their warlock slot level goes from 2 to 3 giving them an extra 2 sorcery points to allocate per long or short rest.

If you then bring it to 6 sorcerer from 5 sorcerer you gain another 3 sorcery points & start adding your charisma mod to the damage of any spell with the damage type associated with your heritage. Going from 5 to 6 warlock gives another invocation & a pact feature on par with the sorcerer one above. A level 8 wizard (or whatever) would have 3rd & 4th level spell slots & people are always quick to point out how impressive higher & higher spell slot levels can be, but they are also quick to gloss over & avoid mentioning the ability to spam low level spells like cantrips or use things like repelling agonizing blast as a cantrip to outdamage & out-manipulate the battlefield compared to leveled spells either on a cast for cast or by sheer spamability.

[Willie the Duck]

Just a note here: the O.L.D. roleplaying game system allows this sort of thing by reducing the magic point cost of any spell if you choose to take longer to cast it. The system is not terribly complicated, but it also allows you to cast things you wouldn't normally be able to cast by increasing the amount of time to cast, thus reducing the magic point cost to a level that you can actually pay.

It's a neat system, which I think that a lot of people on the playground would enjoy, give how so many people are asking for crunch all the time.

Yeah, I think Barbarians of Lemuria do the same thing on the other side of the crunch spectrum (with a rather Conan-esque theme on the side, if it wasn't obvious).

[Talionis]

The answer is a lot of balance issues.

Ritual Magic Feat could have huge issues. This can invalidate spell lists and spells known. It can add most spells to noncasters which would not only cause balance issues but fluff issues of wanting all/most characters taking ritual magic feat.

It would affect the world you live in as Magic would be very common and used for even minor things. Most non casters would take ritual magic feat.

Balance might require examinging each spell for changes especially in cost of consumable components. I also think you might implement a 10 minutes per spell level for ritual casting and that by itself is just a start.

I do agree many spells could be rituals with little issue, even though I think i would lean towards not too many more.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Well, first (and stipulated as minor points), once you've hit mid-level, you've played a significant portion of the game. Plus you need to survive to reach mid level.

Regardless, I don't think we're simply trying to answer if individual issues are game-breaking or not, simply what the consequences of making all spells into rituals would be. This one is pertinent specifically because it does effect what early level play would look like, and whether people would or wouldn't be taking the Dragon Sorcerer sorcerous archetype. That seems to me to be highly pertinent to the OP's question.


No, it's not game-breaking at all, but it's incredibly handy for a few levels, at which point other spells come online. Greater Invisibility makes the first round of combat a slaughter-fest. Clairvoyance or Arcane Eye make a rogue's stealth and recon abilities completely irrelevant. Summon spells mean you can have a private army before every battle. Injured in a dungeon? Do a ritual to scribe a Teleportation Circle on the ground, head home for a while, and teleport back.

Free Mage Armor is useful, but, when this extends to other spells, it's pretty crazy what a wizard could do.

I think that there are some valid concerns here, although I disagree with the premise that before every encounter your players are going to take two hours casting tons of rituals to prepare (esp. when some like Greater Invisibility only last a minute, so timing would be crucial), as long as you're making the passage of time significant. But that's already relevant even without OP's modifications, since if time passed is irrelevant than might as well take a short - or even long - rest between each encounter and regenerate some/all expended resources.

There have already been several suggestions above amounting to "change the length of time required for the rituals" and I think that might work but an easier fix might just be to limit the level of ritual-able spells. Is this spell one that's normally cast-able as a ritual? No change. Is it something like Mage Armor? Sure, you can Ritual it once you can cast spells two levels higher than it (as an example). I don't think it's unreasonable for a 14th-level Wizard to be able to Ritual a teleportation circle, especially given that it's not a fast means of escape in the middle of a dangerous dungeon where you could be ambushed at any point during those 10 minutes.

[Talionis]

Spells like Simulacrum and Clone are essentially super rituals now. They take long periods of time to cast and consume the spell slot. Both are probably only done in down time between campaigns.

I have thought about the damage done to one or both by adding them as rituals and the biggest issue I noticed was other classes getting access to the spells through the ritual magic feat or them being added to a Tome Warlock spell list.

I don't think either is fatal. But I do think both present balance issues to consider before a campaign.

But certainly you can't cast either of these spells faster by casting them as a ritual, if you were to add the ritual tag to the spell.

[RSP]

To both of you, I was pointing at the sorcerer ability to have 13 ac as an example of why talking about "free" mage armor as a concern is ridiculous. I wouldn't say that wizard is "underpowered compared to other casters" so much as the fact that scorlock has so many archtype options that there is practically no downside to doing it & because of invocations & other class abilities from both sides it turns scorlock something that makes all other classes seem a bit unloved. Naaomi your math is a bit wrong though. I just thought it was odd that someone would be concerned about a wizard being able to spam mage armor as a ritual spell

a 4/4 scorlock has 14 sorcery points worth of spellsa nd regains 4 every short rest. Those can be allocated to any first or second level spell slot usage desired as long as they don't try to create more than they have slots of that spell level at a 1:1 point:slot*level rate. the choice of 4/4 was not accidental, that is about where the divergence really starts to take off.
With one more sorcerer level they gain 2x 3rd level slots for 6 more sorcery points.
With one more warlock level they gain an invocation and their warlock slot level goes from 2 to 3 giving them an extra 2 sorcery points to allocate per long or short rest.

If you then bring it to 6 sorcerer from 5 sorcerer you gain another 3 sorcery points & start adding your charisma mod to the damage of any spell with the damage type associated with your heritage. Going from 5 to 6 warlock gives another invocation & a pact feature on par with the sorcerer one above. A level 8 wizard (or whatever) would have 3rd & 4th level spell slots & people are always quick to point out how impressive higher & higher spell slot levels can be, but they are also quick to gloss over & avoid mentioning the ability to spam low level spells like cantrips or use things like repelling agonizing blast as a cantrip to outdamage & out-manipulate the battlefield compared to leveled spells either on a cast for cast or by sheer spamability.

I don’t think you’re giving a true showing of the Sorcery points RAW. There is no cap on how many slots you can create for one thing, nothing to do with 1:1. But you are capped by how many Sorcery points you can have at once by level, not to mention converting spell slots to Sorcery points isn’t an even trade. Considering those 4th level Sorcerer spell slots as 14 SPs isn’t doing those slots justice as 7 1st level spells, or 2 2nd, isn’t nearly as good as four 1st and three 2nd, plus 4 SRs.

It’s a nice gimmick for the Sorlock to get lower level slots from Warlock slots, but that’s completely reliant upon not using those Warlock slots at their current level (and possibly on a DM who allows you to just convert slots while resting for X hours prior to any encounters).

Also, you’re not factoring in the Wizards SR recovery of spell slots. If lower level slots is what you’re focusing on, that Wizard, in addition to the more powerful 3rd and 4th level slots and spells, they can regain their 4 1st level slots with a SR. That’s, essentially, 8 SPs worth of slots; more than what that Sorlock is gaining in a SR (though obviously the Wizard can only recover once per LR, while the Sorlock recovers every SR)

And as that Sorlock levels, that Wizard is getting increasingly more power as well as recovering more slots on a SR, with adding in their School abilities as well.

Sorlocks are nice in their low level versitility, but they aren’t more powerful than Wizards, not to mention Wizards are still extremely versatile with the amount of spells known. Though all this is just my opinion, obviously you have your own.

I think making all spells Rituals impacts the Ritual Caster feat and it’s availability to non-caster classes/subclasses more than anything else.

[Willie the Duck]

I think making all spells Rituals impacts the Ritual Caster feat and it’s availability to non-caster classes/subclasses more than anything else.

I think that feat, and Tome warlocks, would almost have to be re-thought.

[Naanomi]

I think that feat, and Tome warlocks, would almost have to be re-thought.
Expensive though... I’d want to be a magic-ink manufacturer in that world

[redjinx]

All spells sort of are rituals, if you do things right.

Glyph of Warding is a 3rd-level spell which lets you inscribe a spell of the level at which you cast it. You set a trigger that causes the spell to release, and when the trigger is met, the effect happens automatically. Normally this would be used as a trap, e.g. Fireball set to trigger when someone opens a door. BUT because I'm an awful person, I realized that it can be exploited (if you have enough gold) to eliminate spell slots. Here's how:

The casting time is 1 hour, and your components are whatever the spell's components are plus 100 gp. You get to set the trigger, and it can be inscribed on a surface or in an object. So, whenever you have free time, you spend every hour of every day casting it with every spell slot you have, then taking a long rest, then rinse and repeat. You fill up a book with arcane symbols, one per page. Now every spell has a simple trigger; open the book to the page the glyph is on and speak a command word, such as... oh, I don't know, "Fireball." Congratulations! You are now the proud owner of infinite one-shot spells, for just 100 gold each! Ran out of spells in the middle of a fight? No problem! Just open your handy-dandy spellbook of instant death, open it to that one page with the 50 copies of Lightning Bolt, and Lost Ark everyone's face off as a bonus action by speaking the command word!

[Tetrasodium]

I don’t think you’re giving a true showing of the Sorcery points RAW. There is no cap on how many slots you can create for one thing, nothing to do with 1:1. But you are capped by how many Sorcery points you can have at once by level, not to mention converting spell slots to Sorcery points isn’t an even trade. Considering those 4th level Sorcerer spell slots as 14 SPs isn’t doing those slots justice as 7 1st level spells, or 2 2nd, isn’t nearly as good as four 1st and three 2nd, plus 4 SRs.

It’s a nice gimmick for the Sorlock to get lower level slots from Warlock slots, but that’s completely reliant upon not using those Warlock slots at their current level (and possibly on a DM who allows you to just convert slots while resting for X hours prior to any encounters).

Also, you’re not factoring in the Wizards SR recovery of spell slots. If lower level slots is what you’re focusing on, that Wizard, in addition to the more powerful 3rd and 4th level slots and spells, they can regain their 4 1st level slots with a SR. That’s, essentially, 8 SPs worth of slots; more than what that Sorlock is gaining in a SR (though obviously the Wizard can only recover once per LR, while the Sorlock recovers every SR)

And as that Sorlock levels, that Wizard is getting increasingly more power as well as recovering more slots on a SR, with adding in their School abilities as well.

Sorlocks are nice in their low level versitility, but they aren’t more powerful than Wizards, not to mention Wizards are still extremely versatile with the amount of spells known. Though all this is just my opinion, obviously you have your own.

I think making all spells Rituals impacts the Ritual Caster feat and it’s availability to non-caster classes/subclasses more than anything else.


Your right, I should have double checked the phb before posting the value is 1st:2pst 2nd:3pts 3rd:5pts 4th:6pts 5th:7pts so burning those 2 2nd or 3rd level warlock slots/short rest by converting them to orcery points & using them to replenish sorcerer slots as you use them will get you an extra 3 1st level slots at warlock 3-4. doing the same warlock 5-6 will nab five extra first level sorcerer slots or 3 2nd level slots with a point left over for metamagic as they expend those first & second level slots to make room for more without needing to rest.

Yes arcane recovery can help, but that only works during a rest. a wizard can't do something like convert warlock slots to spell points before the rest & get those same warlock slots back to repeat after the rest. That flexibility combined with the more pressing problem coming from charisma seeming to be wotc's favorite stat that should be capable of nearly anything is the problem

Very few games go much beyond level 10, that soft cap mercilessly tears into late blooming classes like the wizard when you compare them to front loaded ultra-SAD things like the scorlock.

[Mellack]

All spells sort of are rituals, if you do things right.

Glyph of Warding is a 3rd-level spell which lets you inscribe a spell of the level at which you cast it. You set a trigger that causes the spell to release, and when the trigger is met, the effect happens automatically. Normally this would be used as a trap, e.g. Fireball set to trigger when someone opens a door. BUT because I'm an awful person, I realized that it can be exploited (if you have enough gold) to eliminate spell slots. Here's how:

The casting time is 1 hour, and your components are whatever the spell's components are plus 100 gp. You get to set the trigger, and it can be inscribed on a surface or in an object. So, whenever you have free time, you spend every hour of every day casting it with every spell slot you have, then taking a long rest, then rinse and repeat. You fill up a book with arcane symbols, one per page. Now every spell has a simple trigger; open the book to the page the glyph is on and speak a command word, such as... oh, I don't know, "Fireball." Congratulations! You are now the proud owner of infinite one-shot spells, for just 100 gold each! Ran out of spells in the middle of a fight? No problem! Just open your handy-dandy spellbook of instant death, open it to that one page with the 50 copies of Lightning Bolt, and Lost Ark everyone's face off as a bonus action by speaking the command word!

Except that you can never take that book more than 10' from where you cast all those Glyphs. Fine if you are defending your home, not very useful if you are dungeon crawling.

[Tetrasodium]

Except that you can never take that book more than 10' from where you cast all those Glyphs. Fine if you are defending your home, not very useful if you are dungeon crawling.


Interesting twist for certain spells is that if you keep the book in bag of holding it never moves because you just move the extradimenional space containing the book itself. scribe it in braille & you could do some neat workarounds.