glyph of warding and playing cards...and scroll scribing

[Bahamut7]

I have been working on a character concept that has evolved into a few possibilities (Gambit or Twisted Fate to name some). The concept is someone who flings playing cards and I was looking at ways to improve via the tools we have officially (I typically try to avoid home brewing when possible).

As the subject implies, I came across the spell Glyph of Warding and realized that you can cause the glyph to explode or release spells. The problem I have come across is the confusing difference of surface and object in regards to distance of casting.

The main question is, if you use Glyph of Warding on a playing card and throw it with the trigger of hitting the enemy (whether they hit or step on it), could this work with RAW? I know throwing cards in real life is difficult and would mean limited range but if the throw would exceed 10 ft, would the glyph still work?

Also, would it be fair (upon request and approval of DM) to allow a Warlock to use this spell? Or could that get a little out of hand? Or is there anyway for a Warlock to gain this spell without taking 5 levels in Bard, Cleric, or Wizard?

Any thoughts, insights, or comments are always welcomed.

Edit: After some follow up upon advice given, I am adding some more discussion of Glyph of Warding vs Scroll Scribing (in this case as playing cards).

[MaxWilson]

I have been working on a character concept that has evolved into a few possibilities (Gambit or Twisted Fate to name some). The concept is someone who flings playing cards and I was looking at ways to improve via the tools we have officially (I typically try to avoid home brewing when possible).

As the subject implies, I came across the spell Glyph of Warding and realized that you can cause the glyph to explode or release spells. The problem I have come across is the confusing difference of surface and object in regards to distance of casting.

The main question is, if you use Glyph of Warding on a playing card and throw it with the trigger of hitting the enemy (whether they hit or step on it), could this work with RAW? I know throwing cards in real life is difficult and would mean limited range but if the throw would exceed 10 ft, would the glyph still work?

Also, would it be fair (upon request and approval of DM) to allow a Warlock to use this spell? Or could that get a little out of hand? Or is there anyway for a Warlock to gain this spell without taking 5 levels in Bard, Cleric, or Wizard?

Any thoughts, insights, or comments are always welcomed.

Could this work with RAW? No. The only reason Glyph of Warding doesn't mention rules for what happens when you move a "surface" is that it assumes that surfaces are immobile. If it moves, it's an object, and the Glyph goes away if you move it too far.

Letting a warlock gain access to the spell would be good but not game-breaking. IMO they went too far in restricting the Warlock spell selection. Yes, some spells are good when you get to cast them every short rest, but if you eliminate too many of them from the list, short rest casting ceases to be interesting. As a DM I'd be open to designing a pact around it. Alternately you could just pick it up through mutliclassing Bard, Cleric, or Wizard, though that takes at least 10 levels (Bard 5/Warlock 5) to get going.

[Bahamut7]

Could this work with RAW? No. The only reason Glyph of Warding doesn't mention rules for what happens when you move a "surface" is that it assumes that surfaces are immobile. If it moves, it's an object, and the Glyph goes away if you move it too far.

Letting a warlock gain access to the spell would be good but not game-breaking. IMO they went too far in restricting the Warlock spell selection. Yes, some spells are good when you get to cast them every short rest, but if you eliminate too many of them from the list, short rest casting ceases to be interesting. As a DM I'd be open to designing a pact around it. Alternately you could just pick it up through mutliclassing Bard, Cleric, or Wizard, though that takes at least 10 levels (Bard 5/Warlock 5) to get going.

I wasn't sure about the distance thing because I thought I saw a tweet about using a glyph of mending or fabrication on a ship hull could work as the point of casting was bound to a point in the ship.

Yea, I wanted to avoid 5 levels in bard or wizard because then why not just play those classes lol.

[MaxWilson]

I wasn't sure about the distance thing because I thought I saw a tweet about using a glyph of mending or fabrication on a ship hull could work as the point of casting was bound to a point in the ship.

Sounds like a case of a DM overriding the RAW in the interests of fun. As long as players don't abuse the privilege, many DMs are willing to accommodate.


Yea, I wanted to avoid 5 levels in bard or wizard because then why not just play those classes lol.

Understandable. This may be a case where your DM is willing to accommodate you, too. If he seems doubtful, point out that typically the real limiter on Glyph of Warding is not the spell slots, it's the component cost. Anything a warlock could do with that spell could be done by a wizard or bard instead, it would just take longer.

It may also help if you draw up a draft of your proposed warlock pact for him (or her) to modify/approve. The more creative work you can offload onto yourself instead of him (or her), the easier his (or her life) will be.

[Bahamut7]

Sounds like a case of a DM overriding the RAW in the interests of fun. As long as players don't abuse the privilege, many DMs are willing to accommodate.



Understandable. This may be a case where your DM is willing to accommodate you, too. If he seems doubtful, point out that typically the real limiter on Glyph of Warding is not the spell slots, it's the component cost. Anything a warlock could do with that spell could be done by a wizard or bard instead, it would just take longer.

It may also help if you draw up a draft of your proposed warlock pact for him (or her) to modify/approve. The more creative work you can offload onto yourself instead of him (or her), the easier his (or her life) will be.

Oh definitely, I just try to keep any special requests or home brewing to a minimum. That's why I try to make this stuff as closely lined in with RAW or official sources as possible. Requesting Glyph of Warding as Warlock spell isn't much, but understanding it and not using it incorrectly or asking to be able to use it in ways not normally done, I would like to avoid.

But hey, whenever, the opportunity to make this character and play it, I will post it or add the patron to the home brew section if I feel gutsy in making it from the ground up.

[Mellack]

RAW it will not work unless you cast it within 10 feet of where you use it. If you walk any distance while carrying the cards with the spell on it, the spell fades. However, depending on how limited you are in money, the cost may be enough limiting factor for your DM to allow it. So not allowed by the rules, but you can ask and see what they say.

[Segev]

The ship example gets into relativity in a basic sort of way. Vehicles that are being used as the setting for a scene can reasonably be Used as the standard for ‘stationary.’ That is, anything on the vehicle that is not moving around on it can be said to be stationary, even if the vehicle is moving wrt the outside world.

A DM is within his rights to even rule somewhat inconsistently on a case by case basis. The cantrip illusion of a golden statue you’ve put in the bed of that wagon can ride around in the wagon, and the glyph of warding you put on the same wagon’s door to be triggered by anybody trying to break in can stick just fine. But that glyph you’re trying to use to turn the wagon into a distance-delivery system for a mighty spell is likely to fail.

I could argue in setting logic about external and internal focus, or other such things, but the reality from a gameplay perspective is that a DM is likely to rule based on how he perceives the case to be treating the vehicle: as a setting on which other things happen, or as a moving object within the setting.

[Alderic78]

I think it's much easier to ask your DM to let you throw a card when you blast someone with Eldritch Blast. Bonus if the deck pf cards can also count as arcane focus.
Totally in the fluff realm if that deck of cards never runs out of cards :p

[Bahamut7]

I think it's much easier to ask your DM to let you throw a card when you blast someone with Eldritch Blast. Bonus if the deck pf cards can also count as arcane focus.
Totally in the fluff realm if that deck of cards never runs out of cards :p

Oh this was my plan to hide being a Warlock for a little bit. Play him off as a Rogue with the Criminal background and overtime reveal he can do some more tricks than just throw a card really well.

And actually, this is where this idea stemmed from. I was figuring out what this character may seek in the world and the deck of Many Things and Illusions of course came up. I thought it could be fun to use Glyph of Ward to make some unique cards with the spell feature, not to mention it would grant a Warlock a few extra spells that don't scale (like shield).

[Segev]

Oh this was my plan to hide being a Warlock for a little bit. Play him off as a Rogue with the Criminal background and overtime reveal he can do some more tricks than just throw a card really well.

And actually, this is where this idea stemmed from. I was figuring out what this character may seek in the world and the deck of Many Things and Illusions of course came up. I thought it could be fun to use Glyph of Ward to make some unique cards with the spell feature, not to mention it would grant a Warlock a few extra spells that don't scale (like shield).

Making cards that are one-shot items would work. The Xanathar's Guide book has better item-crafting rules. You're effectively looking at either spell scrolls refluffed as being thrown by an expert warlock, I think.

[Nifft]

I think it's much easier to ask your DM to let you throw a card when you blast someone with Eldritch Blast. Bonus if the deck pf cards can also count as arcane focus.
Totally in the fluff realm if that deck of cards never runs out of cards :p I came here to say basically this, however...


Making cards that are one-shot items would work. The Xanathar's Guide book has better item-crafting rules. You're effectively looking at either spell scrolls refluffed as being thrown by an expert warlock, I think. This is a really good idea.

Your deck of cards is effectively a Magic Missile which scales as you make upcast versions at higher levels. Does it inflict Force damage, or one of the inferior damage types?

[Bahamut7]

Making cards that are one-shot items would work. The Xanathar's Guide book has better item-crafting rules. You're effectively looking at either spell scrolls refluffed as being thrown by an expert warlock, I think.

That is essentially, what I envisioned just with the flexibility of the glyph of warding spell to use the explosive runes when that particular element would be more of an advantage, but I will have to recheck my copy of Xanathar's guide to see if this would be the easier mechanical way to do this.

[Segev]

That is essentially, what I envisioned just with the flexibility of the glyph of warding spell to use the explosive runes when that particular element would be more of an advantage, but I will have to recheck my copy of Xanathar's guide to see if this would be the easier mechanical way to do this.

Given that glyph of warding won't let you take your cards with you without the spell failing, it will be more mechanically doable. Still probably on the pricey side; you may want a combination of the actually-enchanted cards and the fluffing of eldritch blast as you throwing some cards.

[Vogie]

For a cardcaster, wouldn't the basic cantrip instead be a refluffed Magic stone? Just with, you know, cards instead of rocks.

I do like the idea of a 'lock's Book of Shadows actually being a Deck of Cards (...of Shadows)

Since Glyph of Warding already has a 1 hour cast time, maybe ask the DM to just add the Ritual tag to it, so a Tomelock could pick it up with Book of Ancient Secrets.

[Bahamut7]

For a cardcaster, wouldn't the basic cantrip instead be a refluffed Magic stone? Just with, you know, cards instead of rocks.

I do like the idea of a 'lock's Book of Shadows actually being a Deck of Cards (...of Shadows)

Since Glyph of Warding already has a 1 hour cast time, maybe ask the DM to just add the Ritual tag to it, so a Tomelock could pick it up with Book of Ancient Secrets.

Well, for the basic refluff, it's more of a disguised Eldritch Blast to keep this character's power source on the down low. As for the 1 hour casting time, it would have been more of a downtime activity to have a few other options in combat for my teammates and myself.

As noted, this would require an agreement with the DM on allowing this warlock to have the spell without 5 levels in Bard, Wizard, or Cleric AND allowing the cards to be thrown more than 10 ft (nowhere near the range of Eldritch Blast of course) and still function. It would add up in costs, but as stated no different than a Wizard scribing scrolls in their downtime.

As for Xanathar's guide on crafting, Segev, the eventual cost of 5th level spells (because of Warlock upcasting) this would become very expensive even with a reduce cost detailed by the DMG.

Edit: I just noticed Vogie your mention of asking to make it a ritual spell...that actually would be the easiest solution. Thanks, I think that may be my go to.

[Segev]

Yeah, would be prohibitive for anything above first level, really. And there’s no point with cantrips.

[Bahamut7]

Mechanically, the easiest path to make throwing cards infused with spells is essentially fluffing them as Scribed Scrolls. This gets around the distance limitation of Glyph of Warding (and the fact this spell is 5 levels of Bard, Cleric, and Wizard) but comes at a big cost. Time and Money.

Scribing a Scroll:


Spell Level
Time
Cost


Cantrip
l day
15 gp


1st
l day
25 gp


2nd
3 days
250 gp


3rd
l workweek
500 gp


4th
2 workweeks
2,500 gp


5th
4 workweeks
5,000 gp


6th
8 workweeksp
15,000 g


7th
16 workweeks
25,000 gp


8th
32 workweeks
50,000 gp


9th
48 workweeks
250,000 gp



Glyph of Warding:
-1 hour to cast
-200 GP per use
-Any spell level
-5 levels in a specific class (can be worked around with previous suggestions)
-Glyph cannot move more than 10ft from original casting point.

Now looking at these differences, we see a HUGE jump from time to create and GP costs. Granted the scrolls get around the distance limitation.

While I am fine with the spell slots over 5th taking a while to create I do feel the charts and guidelines were based on lower magic settings.

So, what would be a good in between point from Glyph of warding's casting and resource use and scroll scribing charts for medium or higher magic settings (for scribing or fluffing enchanting cards for one shot items)? Something fair, but still balanced. I wouldn't want to recreate the coffelock or something.