Suggestions for Advancing an Awakened Skeleton Cohort

[BlackOnyx]

tl;dr What skills/feats/gear would you focus on for an awakened skeleton cohort that could only advance by racial HD?



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In my current campaign, my character (a cloistered cleric) recently awakened two hobgoblin skeletons. Now named Elizabeth and Dane, the two are currently haunt shifted into a set of bracers, allowing them to observe my character and his exploits.


After chatting a bit, my DM said he would allow me to advance the two using the cohort rules, the stipulation being that they could only advance by racial hit dice, not class or NPC levels. This means skeletal BAB and saves, undead (4+Int) skill points per level, and all skills as cross class.




Elizabeth

DR/10 Bludgeoning (special)
1d12+3 hp/HD (Corpsecrafter, Desecrate bonus)

Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 1
Str 17
Dex 15
Con --

Dane

DR/10 Bludgeoning (special)
1d12+3 hp/HD (Corpsecrafter, Desecrate bonus)

Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 1
Str 17
Dex 15
Con --



For both RP and practical reasons, I'd like to focus on training these two for utility and support rather than front-line combat (party is level 13, they just reached level 2). Additionally, I'd like to cater to the personalities the two of them were determined to have using Unearthed Arcana's traits as inspiration.


Elizabeth's personality can be described as "plucky" and "reckless." She has an interest in magic/tinkering, but a short attention span.


Dane is "musclebound" and "uncivilized." He's quiet, excels in physical activities, and enjoys caring for animals.


Based off these premises, I've been thinking that Elizabeth could focus on her Use Magic Device skill and Dane on Handle Animal. Both seem to be useful (and fitting) skills that can be enhanced significantly via feat focus or skill synergies. Likewise, they're both areas where my character isn't very strong himself.




Elizabeth

Skill Knowledge: Use Magic Device (UMD as class skill)

Magical Aptitude (+2 UMD & Spellcraft)

Skill Focus: UMD (+3 UMD)

Magic Device Attunement


Dane

Skill Knowledge: Handle Animal

Animal Affinity (+2 Ride & Handle Animal)

Skill Focus: Handle Animal (+3 Handle Animal)

Track (or a specific animal handling skill)




Funnily enough, both the aforementioned skills are charisma-based; as awakened skeletons, both Elizabeth and Dane have a charisma score of 1.


While I did already plan on improving their Charisma scores at relevant levels, realistically I can only see them reaching a base Charisma of 3 or 4 by the end of the campaign. Magic items (later on) will no doubt play a big part in neutralizing some of their inherent social penalties.


That all said, what are your thoughts on these proposed specializations?

- Are there other areas/focuses you see as significantly more worthwhile?

- Are there better ways to go about improving the skills mentioned?

- Are there any other specific feats/items that could be useful for a utility oriented cohort, regardless of their specific focus?


Any and all comments/suggestions are appreciated. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

[AnimeTheCat]

While I know little of advancing creatures by HD, I do know of better options than awakened skelwtons, those being Bone Creatures from BoVD. They retain their intelligence and class features when they're created.

[zlefin]

my first thought in suhc situations is to look for ways to get skills as in-class rather than cross-class.
I know tome of battle has some way for that for the skills associated with the disciplines via feats.

aiming for those cha skills seems iffy; unless they get to quite a high level the skills would be very hard to use. between the cross-class limits on skill levels and their cha penalty, they'd have terrible rolls for either of them. they'd have a hrd time reaching the requisite DCs to be useful. do animals have any automatic penalties with undead? alot of systems have ways that animals would really dislike being handled by an undead.

I can't really think of much of anything better though either; as what things they could do would be irrelevant (unless they can gain a lot of HD). mundane crafting woulnd't matter; it'd be a long while before they could be good enough to do anything in combat, even if it's possible at all.
can they use their spot/listen checks while in there to help you out?


just letting them be more independent and take classes of their own choosing would be better than anything probably.

[BlackOnyx]

While I know little of advancing creatures by HD, I do know of better options than awakened skelwtons, those being Bone Creatures from BoVD. They retain their intelligence and class features when they're created.


A great suggestion, for sure. (I'd actually considered having my character apply that template to himself via Craft Contingent Spell.)


That said, RP-wise, my character is typically against animating undead in a way that unwillingly traps/interferes with the original soul (for both practical and ethical reasons). Skeletons created via Animate Dead are mindless; Awaken Undead actually brings a new, unique consciousness into being as a result.


Additionally, my PC is something of a researcher, so seeing how a "native" undead consciousness acts/develops is of great interest to him. The overall relationship is more akin to having a child/dependent than a servant.



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my first thought in suhc situations is to look for ways to get skills as in-class rather than cross-class.
I know tome of battle has some way for that for the skills associated with the disciplines via feats.


Agreed. "All skills cross class" is one of the real kickers for an already limited advancement schedule. A shame hobgoblin skeletons don't meet the racial prereqs for Able Learner.


I'd forgotten about Martial Study, though. Might have to look into that to see what kinds of options are available.



aiming for those cha skills seems iffy; unless they get to quite a high level the skills would be very hard to use. between the cross-class limits on skill levels and their cha penalty, they'd have terrible rolls for either of them. they'd have a hrd time reaching the requisite DCs to be useful.


Yeah, I can agree it's definitely not an optimal setup. That said, with enough feat focus, they could get their relevant modifiers up to (+5) by level 3 and (+10) by level 6 before any relevant magical items, spells, or masterwork tools. Not great by any means, but perhaps serviceable.



do animals have any automatic penalties with undead? alot of systems have ways that animals would really dislike being handled by an undead.


Mm. It's definitely a thing in 3.5e, too. I'm thinking my best bet would be to acquire animals young and acclimate them to the presence of undead. Intelligent undead animals could also be an option, too.


That said, I will say there is a certain appeal to playing against type. The story of the gentle skeleton that tries so hard to get animals to like him despite their fear of him...it's kind of adorable.


EDIT: On second glance, the text for the lich template class does seem to mention that while most familiars would leave an undead master, bats and rats are still valid options. Perhaps certain animals (per DM ruling) are less apt to be bothered by undeath than others.



can they use their spot/listen checks while in there to help you out?


Hm, I suppose they could, come to think of it. Perhaps even aid another on searches & the like? Not a bad idea to look into.



just letting them be more independent and take classes of their own choosing would be better than anything probably.


Well, unfortunately class levels probably won't be an option (my DM has already been pretty generous with my necromancy and I'd hate to impose any further).


Realistically, I do understand that the two of them will probably end up being more RP-rich characters than mechanically rich ones. In all honesty though, I'm fine with that. Having some dependents to look out for adds a lot of depth to my character's interactions and makes for a lot of fun encounters.

[Bullet06320]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491181-Alternative-ways-to-get-new-Class-skills
this thread may be helpful to finding ways to get class skills

pleas note Skill Knowledge is meant for the UA skill variant system presented there, unless your DM approves otherwise

with CHA being a 1, you may want to focus their skills elsewhere. search, spot, listen, never hurts to have extra chances to detect stuff

[BlackOnyx]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491181-Alternative-ways-to-get-new-Class-skills
this thread may be helpful to finding ways to get class skills


Great reference. Thanks for the link.



pleas note Skill Knowledge is meant for the UA skill variant system presented there, unless your DM approves otherwise


Ah. That I didn't realize. I'll have to look into it's validity, then. (I appreciate the headsup.)

[ShurikVch]

Note:
Hobgoblins, being 1 HD creatures, are must have class
Awakened Undead gets back all of it's original abilities (unless they're Sp, Su, required actual flesh, Con score, or incompatible with the new alignment)
Thus - Awakened Skeletons should get some 1st-level abilities. For example, Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian; Psionic Skeletons would be able to get psionic focus, and access to [psionic] feats; Warblade or Swordsage; Animal Companion...

[BlackOnyx]

Note:
Hobgoblins, being 1 HD creatures, are must have class


That much is understood. That said, sticking to straight racial HD is a call made by DM in the interest of keeping things balanced & simple for the party.


As I think I mentioned above, he's already been fairly generous with his rulings, so I'd rather not push for anything he's not feeling. The fact I can level said skeletons as cohorts without any sort of feat investment is already a welcome deal.



Awakened Undead gets back all of it's original abilities (unless they're Sp, Su, required actual flesh, Con score, or incompatible with the new alignment)
Thus - Awakened Skeletons should get some 1st-level abilities. For example, Whirling Frenzy Lion Totem Barbarian; Psionic Skeletons would be able to get psionic focus, and access to [psionic] feats; Warblade or Swordsage; Animal Companion...


From what I understood from Awaken Undead (or at least the most recent, Spell Compendium version) was that awakened undead only gain/retain four things from the spell:


- An intelligence score (1d6+4) (& associated benefits of sentience)

- Armor and Weapon proficiencies their hosts had in life (Warrior class is assumed)

- Extraordinary (Ex) racial abilities (i.e. poison, scent...perhaps racial skill bonuses?)

- +2 bonus to resist Control Undead


That said, it didn't appear to me that class abilities (aside from proficiencies) are typically retained. (Either way though, as their hosts were previously basic warriors, there aren't really any extra features to port.)