[3.5] Hamatula Help (NPC)

[Thurbane]

OK, so looking for some general NPC building advice.

Character is a Barbed Devil (Hamatula); for story reasons, he's grown tired of the Blood War, and now lives on the Prime Material plane. (12RHD, no class levels).

He passes himself off as a human merchant (he has re-trained his skills and feats around Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy etc.); he uses a Hat of Disguise, and Ring of Mind Shielding (among other methods).

Over the years under cover as a Human, his alignment has shifted from LE to LN. All he really wants is just to be left alone, and continue his trade as a merchant and collector of antiquities.

His biggest fear is being caught by minions from the Nine Hells and dragged back there to be punished for desertion.

Just looking for some general feedback and advice for this character. He will be a "merchant" that the PCs interact with a few times; one of the party is an Aasimar Paladin, so if his true nature were discovered, there would be trouble.

Cheers - T

[Nifft]

Just looking for some general feedback and advice for this character. He will be a "merchant" that the PCs interact with a few times; one of the party is an Aasimar Paladin, so if his true nature were discovered, there would be trouble.

Wouldn't the Paladin be able to easily verify that the former fiend is no longer evil (though it's still [Evil] of course)?

The text in the detect evil spell always seems to use the alignment notation, not the subtype notation: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

[Yael]

It mostly depends on what is he actually doing in the world. If he's passing as a merchant, maybe Master Manipulator from the PHB2 for some interesting roleplaying encounters. Recognize Imposter (Eberron p58) also for roleplaying encounters, and to oppose bluffs and disguises (with sense motive and spot, respectively).

I'd say it mostly depends on his function, or its interaction with the PCs.

[Thurbane]

Wouldn't the Paladin be able to easily verify that the former fiend is no longer evil (though it's still [Evil] of course)?

The text in the detect evil spell always seems to use the alignment notation, not the subtype notation: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

Hmm, interesting. I'll have to look into that. Of course, the Ring of Mind Shielding would block Detect Evil attempts, so he'd have to take the ring off to allow the Paladin to check his alignment.


It mostly depends on what is he actually doing in the world. If he's passing as a merchant, maybe Master Manipulator from the PHB2 for some interesting roleplaying encounters. Recognize Imposter (Eberron p58) also for roleplaying encounters, and to oppose bluffs and disguises (with sense motive and spot, respectively).

I'd say it mostly depends on his function, or its interaction with the PCs.

He'll be a recurring merchant/trader; maybe send the party on a fetch quest or two; and ultimately may seek the party's help if he gets discovered by infernal agents.

[Nifft]

Could this guy use an item of alter self to appear as a Tiefling?

"Yeah I'm an Outsider but I'm also just a regular guy, you know how us Tieflings work."

Maybe he asks people if they think fiends can ever stop being evil, and dresses it up as thinking about his ancestor.

[Zanos]

Wouldn't the Paladin be able to easily verify that the former fiend is no longer evil (though it's still [Evil] of course)?

The text in the detect evil spell always seems to use the alignment notation, not the subtype notation: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

Not according to the subtype:


Evil Subtype
A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is.

[Nifft]

Hmm, but it seems like detect evil doesn't affect the creature -- it just returns information about the creature.

So a +2 evil outsider bane weapon would work against a non-evil [Evil] outsider, but I think detect evil wouldn't detect any evil.

What you're quoting does mean you can't use holy smite to check for redemption.

[Zanos]

Hmm, but it seems like detect evil doesn't affect the creature -- it just returns information about the creature.
Oh no, I'm not brave enough for politics.

[NontheistCleric]

Something I would recommend for most NPCs who need to use disguise self effects a lot and don't have an innate ability to do so is to ditch the usual Hat of Disguise and instead have them take a level of Egoist with the Minor Shapeshifting ACF (Mind's Eye ACFs Part 2), if it is convenient.

For example, if we were to do this with your Hamatula here, not only is it's shapeshifting now physical in nature, but it can't be taken away if it loses the item, and because of associated/non-associated class rules, there's no CR increase. The Hamatula also gets a few extra HP, skills and some useful powers out of it.

Since he is so afraid of getting sent back to Baator, it would probably also be prudent to let him take Naturalized Denizen, so banishment and similar effects won't be a problem for him. Unless you actually want that to be one of the things he is wary of.

[The Viscount]

The ring of mind shielding does have the unfortunate consequence that it's apparent that detection is being blocked, and the paladin would get no information. For extra safety, consider Mask of Gentility which will make you display as neutral instead.

Sounds like a really fun concept. If you want to help build up his reputation as a guy who just wants to live his merchant life without bothering anyone, maybe have other NPCs mention in passing how they've appreciated him selling things to them, or treating his customers well, or just being a chill guy.

[Thurbane]

Something I would recommend for most NPCs who need to use disguise self effects a lot and don't have an innate ability to do so is to ditch the usual Hat of Disguise and instead have them take a level of Egoist with the Minor Shapeshifting ACF (Mind's Eye ACFs Part 2), if it is convenient.

For example, if we were to do this with your Hamatula here, not only is it's shapeshifting now physical in nature, but it can't be taken away if it loses the item, and because of associated/non-associated class rules, there's no CR increase. The Hamatula also gets a few extra HP, skills and some useful powers out of it.

Since he is so afraid of getting sent back to Baator, it would probably also be prudent to let him take Naturalized Denizen, so banishment and similar effects won't be a problem for him. Unless you actually want that to be one of the things he is wary of.

We don't generally use psionics in our games, but I'll have a look at that.

Naturalized Denizen is a great suggestion, thank you.


The ring of mind shielding does have the unfortunate consequence that it's apparent that detection is being blocked, and the paladin would get no information. For extra safety, consider Mask of Gentility which will make you display as neutral instead.

Sounds like a really fun concept. If you want to help build up his reputation as a guy who just wants to live his merchant life without bothering anyone, maybe have other NPCs mention in passing how they've appreciated him selling things to them, or treating his customers well, or just being a chill guy.

Mask of Gentility seems great, but getting the reqs of 9 ranks in Disguise may be tough. Might need to take the City Slicker feat or similar. Still, Disguise is going to be a big part of this guy's schtick, so should be worthwhile.

Also requires 9 ranks of Bluff. Annoying. :smallmad:

[SLOTHRPG95]

If you end up short on feats, you can always just go two Rings of Counterspells (a steak at 4K each), and put Banishment in one and Dismissal in the other.

[Nifft]

Can you slap a few levels of Rogue onto this Devil?

Every honest merchant needs Forgery (to detect forgeries of course), Bluff (to peacefully downplay his own net worth), Intimidate (to bloodlessly bypass highwaymen), Sense Motive & Diplomacy (for mercantile negotiations), Disguise (to research competitors), Stealth & Sneak Attack (to ... vigorously research competitors), Evasion & Uncanny Dodge (when negotiations break down), Appraise, and so forth.

[Zanos]

The ring of mind shielding does have the unfortunate consequence that it's apparent that detection is being blocked, and the paladin would get no information. For extra safety, consider Mask of Gentility which will make you display as neutral instead.
Detect Evil doesn't actually reveal your alignment though. You just ping if you are Evil. Wouldn't someone wearing a ring of mind shielding show the same result as a Neutral or Good person? That is, nothing at all.

[Thurbane]

Class levels may be a possibility later in the campaign, but at this point will be RHD only.

So, I've got 5 feats to play with, and 135 skill points ("class skills" = Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (any one), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival).

Also, I'm giving him "NPC wealth" of 27,000gp to spend.