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View Full Version : DM Help Starting a New FATE Dresdenfiles setting. First time GMing the system. Need Help!



Metahuman1
2018-07-12, 02:18 AM
What it says on the title.

The party has already agreed to using our home city for the base of operations. Simply because we don't have to start remembering details of the geography of other city's this way.

2 White court Vampires feeding on Lust.

1 White Court Vampire Feeding on Fear.

1 Pyromaniac Sorcerer on the run from the White Council.

1 Scion Bone-Demon Dude. (I anticipate this will not be hard as he's played this character in a one shot already and still has the sheet. )

1 Scion geared toward the "Hulk Smash!" school of problem solving. (I'm just going to tweak the changeling template to assume the supernatural part of the bloodline ISN'T always actively trying to take over there lives for be discarded, one or the other.)

1 Valkyrie.

1 Vennatori member (Not one that knows about The Oblivion War, just a "normal" one, or as normal as they get.).

And 1 player whom has yet to pick a concept. (He's a friend of the Valkerie Player. Military buddy. Apparently he's got some stuff going one professionally right this particular moment, so I'm cutting him slack. )

I need some help figuring out the GM side of the screen for the game. (I'm not super experienced with the system, but I've GM'd D&D before.)

And I need some help with character creation, because I've got a party full of people who have only played once or twice with preen's before now, or not at all, and have minimal setting knowledge. (I've read all the currently out books except 1 or 2 of the comics. Another player has read the main novels but not the short story's, he's running the sorcerer. A third player has read 3 of the novels and is working on novel 4, but has had spoilers. She's running the Vennatori and has heard about and likes the idea of a cat-like version of Harry's Companion Mouse. And I have the Fear Based White Court member who's reading book 2 right now.)



The Venatori Member is interested in having access too a Pet/Companion that's cat Themed and operates in a comparable capacity to Mouse. I know Mouse is a Scion, but how to I make that work for what is effectively a power/aspect for a character rather than a character in it's own right?

She's also interested in the idea of having a spirit akin to Bob. How do I go about doing this?

Note: I WANT to let her have these things, they sound cool. And it gives her a trick or two she can bust out with out needing magic of her own, that let's her keep hanging out in something like the weight class of the more magical party members. It also means because she's got things that fight for her at her command, she personally doesn't need to invest as much in combat related skills, and can focus more on being a social and money based manipulator and information agent.

I'm just trying to figure out how to get it to mesh with the games mechanics.




I'm also unsure where precisely a Valkyrie would fall in terms of being stated out. I know the player wants to focus less on Rune Magic and more on being superhumanly good with guns and explosives, and that I should probably give her inhuman or supernatural strength, stamina, speed and/or recovery, but still figuring out the exact distributions of those. And if there's anything else that would qualify as a must have.


Apart form that, I need general help with the system form the GM chair. How does combat work on the GM side, what happens if the characters advance past the higher starting power level. That sort of thing.

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

MrSandman
2018-07-12, 02:25 AM
Question, are you going to playe Fate, as in Fate Core System, or Dresden Files RPG?
Also, if you haven't got experience with the system, I'd consider running a couple of one-shots with simpler characters to get used to it first.

Metahuman1
2018-07-12, 03:52 AM
Dresdenfiles RPG.

I've run in a couple of one shots, but I wasn't GMing those. Most of us had somewhat simple characters. But a few of the people for this group failed to make those games. And the rest wanted to try something different. (The one who was there and stayed the most consistent is only changing her White court vampire emotion from Despair to Fear.)

MrSandman
2018-07-12, 04:29 AM
Dresdenfiles RPG.

I've run in a couple of one shots, but I wasn't GMing those. Most of us had somewhat simple characters. But a few of the people for this group failed to make those games. And the rest wanted to try something different. (The one who was there and stayed the most consistent is only changing her White court vampire emotion from Despair to Fear.)

Okay, then I fear I won't be much help, as I only really know about Fate. But I may have an idea about this:




The Venatori Member is interested in having access too a Pet/Companion that's cat Themed and operates in a comparable capacity to Mouse. I know Mouse is a Scion, but how to I make that work for what is effectively a power/aspect for a character rather than a character in it's own right?


If Dresden Files works similarly to Fate, you can basically treat everything as a character (that is, everything can have aspects, skills, and stunts). To deal with an animal companion, what I'd do is treat it as an extra. Say, every character can have one extra with 1 aspect, 1 stunt, and a small skill pyramid (1 skill at +2, 2 skills at +1). Then, the player who wants a pet can use the extra stuff to flesh out their companion and give them some weight in the game, and the others can have some nice extra stuff.

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-12, 04:53 AM
Bob is actually pretty easy. Going by what he'd be in Fate Core, 1 Refresh, +2 to Lore rolls related to the supernatural in [Bob's location], occasionally unavailable due to having been allowed out. That's a pretty powerful +2, but the chances are that most of the adventure isn't happening where the player has kept Bob.

Using Bob as Butters does is a lot more complex, but I think you could still handle it with a variety of '+2 when's.

I have little idea on costing Mouse, he's a relatively competent sidekick that essentially gives you a couple of higher skills. That's definitely Refresh-worthy, maybe even worth sacrificing skill points, and the sidekick should probably draw from the character's FP instead of having its own pool, but beyond that I'm unsure.

Metahuman1
2018-07-12, 06:03 AM
Okay, then I fear I won't be much help, as I only really know about Fate. But I may have an idea about this:




If Dresden Files works similarly to Fate, you can basically treat everything as a character (that is, everything can have aspects, skills, and stunts). To deal with an animal companion, what I'd do is treat it as an extra. Say, every character can have one extra with 1 aspect, 1 stunt, and a small skill pyramid (1 skill at +2, 2 skills at +1). Then, the player who wants a pet can use the extra stuff to flesh out their companion and give them some weight in the game, and the others can have some nice extra stuff.

It does work similarly to FATE. In fact, it's based in FATE. It's a campaign setting/expansion pack for FATE.



Alright, so, Skill Tree for a Cat creature, what does that look like? And what would be a good aspect for a Cat-Scion? (I have an idea of the stunt.).

Metahuman1
2018-07-12, 06:04 AM
Bob is actually pretty easy. Going by what he'd be in Fate Core, 1 Refresh, +2 to Lore rolls related to the supernatural in [Bob's location], occasionally unavailable due to having been allowed out. That's a pretty powerful +2, but the chances are that most of the adventure isn't happening where the player has kept Bob.

Using Bob as Butters does is a lot more complex, but I think you could still handle it with a variety of '+2 when's.

I have little idea on costing Mouse, he's a relatively competent sidekick that essentially gives you a couple of higher skills. That's definitely Refresh-worthy, maybe even worth sacrificing skill points, and the sidekick should probably draw from the character's FP instead of having its own pool, but beyond that I'm unsure.

So, it would just be like a power item, similar too but not quite as out there as one of the Swords Of The Cross?

MrSandman
2018-07-12, 09:33 AM
It does work similarly to FATE. In fact, it's based in FATE. It's a campaign setting/expansion pack for FATE.



Alright, so, Skill Tree for a Cat creature, what does that look like? And what would be a good aspect for a Cat-Scion? (I have an idea of the stunt.).

I haven't got access to the full skill list right now (nor do I really know what a scion is, I haven't read enough of Dresden Files yet), but stuff like Athletics and Notice seems like a good fit for a cat.

Regarding the aspect, it highly depends on how your player wants to characterise it. I could come up with a couple of examples for a normal cat, but a scion cat escapes my knowledge, I'm afraid.

Metahuman1
2018-07-12, 10:53 AM
I haven't got access to the full skill list right now (nor do I really know what a scion is, I haven't read enough of Dresden Files yet), but stuff like Athletics and Notice seems like a good fit for a cat.

Regarding the aspect, it highly depends on how your player wants to characterise it. I could come up with a couple of examples for a normal cat, but a scion cat escapes my knowledge, I'm afraid.

Scion's are half breeds. Usually between a human and a supernatural creature. However it does occasionally happen that something based on/similar too a Dog or a Cat or the like will breed with the vanilla version, and produce one of these half breeds as well.

There Supernatural beings and can be rather powerful, depending on what the parents are and how much effort they put into it.

It's a Cat so I'd settle for it being able to pull 1-2 neat and potentially useful in the right situation tricks out and have done with it.

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-12, 12:26 PM
With regards to items of power, that might actually be good for a spirit of intellect. They're incredibly powerful tools (you know how knowledge is power?) even if you aren't using them to power other things, but they have the limitation that they need to be there, and from what we've seen of Bob a properly warded home can be quite fragile.

Bare in mind I don't own the Dresden Files books, I'm going of their similarity to Core (which is much simpler).


Scion's are half breeds. Usually between a human and a supernatural creature. However it does occasionally happen that something based on/similar too a Dog or a Cat or the like will breed with the vanilla version, and produce one of these half breeds as well.

There Supernatural beings and can be rather powerful, depending on what the parents are and how much effort they put into it.

It's a Cat so I'd settle for it being able to pull 1-2 neat and potentially useful in the right situation tricks out and have done with it.

Bare in mind that Mouse gets quite a bit of power from the boundary he guards. It's why he's stronger when living in the Carpenter household than the Dresden one, although that household barely needs him.

A basic cat likely has Athletics and/or Notice at +2, the other at +1, and Fight plus maybe a couple of other skills at +1 (stealth seems good). A Scion cat might believably have multiple skills at +2 or even one at +3, Mouse probably does (although he's also a big dog), plus a couple of supernatural powers or stunts. Realistically Mouse has the potential to hit plot device levels of power (+6!) in guarding and the like, although from what I've read (most of the novels, including the latest four) I think he's only hit around +4 or +5 levels of power.

Metahuman1
2018-07-13, 01:07 AM
With regards to items of power, that might actually be good for a spirit of intellect. They're incredibly powerful tools (you know how knowledge is power?) even if you aren't using them to power other things, but they have the limitation that they need to be there, and from what we've seen of Bob a properly warded home can be quite fragile.

Bare in mind I don't own the Dresden Files books, I'm going of their similarity to Core (which is much simpler).



Bare in mind that Mouse gets quite a bit of power from the boundary he guards. It's why he's stronger when living in the Carpenter household than the Dresden one, although that household barely needs him.

A basic cat likely has Athletics and/or Notice at +2, the other at +1, and Fight plus maybe a couple of other skills at +1 (stealth seems good). A Scion cat might believably have multiple skills at +2 or even one at +3, Mouse probably does (although he's also a big dog), plus a couple of supernatural powers or stunts. Realistically Mouse has the potential to hit plot device levels of power (+6!) in guarding and the like, although from what I've read (most of the novels, including the latest four) I think he's only hit around +4 or +5 levels of power.

Alright. What about the Valkyrie. Any ideas on how to get her up and running?

Eldest
2018-07-13, 02:45 PM
I would personally start the valkyrie with 3 of the inhumans (players choice what she wants to be normal at) and if and only if the player wants it, sponsored magic.

Metahuman1
2018-07-14, 11:45 AM
That's it? Just, 3 Inhuman ability (Strength, speed, ext.)? Maybe magic if she wants some casting (She doesn't at this time.)?

Ok, well, that's simple. Anything else she should really dig into?

Oh, and How do I get her to simulate being superhumanly good at marksmanship/gun fighting? Aside form maxing that skill. Anything else I should take to help that along?

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-14, 12:12 PM
Oh, and How do I get her to simulate being superhumanly good at marksmanship/gun fighting? Aside form maxing that skill. Anything else I should take to help that along?

When in doubt, Stunts.

Seriously, IIRC powers in Dresden Files are like fairly broad stunts. So just have them take a bunch of Shoot stunts and maybe allow them to stack if you really want to play it up.

Or a homebrew power. Supernatural Accuracy: you gain a +2 to Athletics rolls to throw objects or Shoot rolls to use a weapon. That's probably 2-3 Refresh right there, you could also potentially set it up so you have the multiple levels of the other 'enhance physical abilities' powers. Anything more specific, well that's really a Stunt isn't it?

Metahuman1
2018-07-14, 10:40 PM
When in doubt, Stunts.

Seriously, IIRC powers in Dresden Files are like fairly broad stunts. So just have them take a bunch of Shoot stunts and maybe allow them to stack if you really want to play it up.

Or a homebrew power. Supernatural Accuracy: you gain a +2 to Athletics rolls to throw objects or Shoot rolls to use a weapon. That's probably 2-3 Refresh right there, you could also potentially set it up so you have the multiple levels of the other 'enhance physical abilities' powers. Anything more specific, well that's really a Stunt isn't it?

Alright. That probably covers that then.




Another thing I don't think I'm understanding right. Buying new ability's other than skills is all done with Fate Points. Is there no ability to gain new ability's as part of character creation? Maybe I just missed it but I don't think I saw that in the book when Milestones were explained.

And, well, part of the fun of playing a Sorcerer or a White Court Vampire or a Valkyrie is that you can learn to do new magics and take them to higher levels, so, I expect that to be a thing that can be done.

Yes I know Fate points represent choice and power restricts choice, blah blah blah, we know that there are exceptions to this rule. Mortal Magic Users who don't break the rules can get crazy powerful, and White Court Vampires, even one's like Thomas who make the choice to Control themselves, get immensely strong, to the point that they can kill by simply being in proximity to a victim.



So, is there a mechanic for this? Something for awarding the ability buy some extra refresh and have some extra points going toward that every now and then? Is that something you just spend extra fate points above your refresh on for bigger milestones?

MrSandman
2018-07-15, 01:28 AM
Well, when you get a milestone (a major one, is it?) you get one extra point of refresh, which you can use to get new stunts or make the ones you've got note powerful. In fact, nothing stops you from starting the game with, say, 6 refresh instead of 3 or from giving milestones more often.

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-15, 03:24 AM
Well, when you get a milestone (a major one, is it?) you get one extra point of refresh, which you can use to get new stunts or make the ones you've got note powerful. In fact, nothing stops you from starting the game with, say, 6 refresh instead of 3 or from giving milestones more often.

IIRC in the DFRPG you tend to begin with 6+ Refresh, but no free Stunts. 10+ starting Refresh is not uncommon.

But yeah, the key thing is that Refresh from Major Milestones (in theory where every book in a series or every series of a TV Show would end, in practice probably more often) can be spent on exactly the same way as starting Refresh.

Metahuman1
2018-07-15, 11:48 AM
... ... ... the book really could stand to be clearer about that. I really did not get that detail from reading it so far.


Does anyone know of like a PDF document anyone's made that can be printed in word or something and had the powers and stunts listed on it? I'd like something like that so I can make a couple of reference sheets and paperclip them to my GM screen for quick reference.

Maybe one that explains what the difference between invoking, tagging and compelling an Aspect are, cause I KNOWN if I don't have that in front of me for the first few sessions I'm going to keep getting the terms mixed up with one another's effects.

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-15, 12:22 PM
Maybe one that explains what the difference between invoking, tagging and compelling an Aspect are, cause I KNOWN if I don't have that in front of me for the first few sessions I'm going to keep getting the terms mixed up with one another's effects.

Trying to remember Tagging, I think it might have changed it's name in Core. Either that or I've just never used it that much, when I played Fate Invokes and Compels were king (although my players had trouble getting the fact that they could Compel).

I recommend picking up the Fate Core book, because the back has a good overview sheet, although the mechanics are different. The pdf is PWYW, and it's essentially a streamlined version of the Dresden Files rules.

MrSandman
2018-07-15, 01:34 PM
Trying to remember Tagging, I think it might have changed it's name in Core. Either that or I've just never used it that much, when I played Fate Invokes and Compels were king (although my players had trouble getting the fact that they could Compel).

I recommend picking up the Fate Core book, because the back has a good overview sheet, although the mechanics are different. The pdf is PWYW, and it's essentially a streamlined version of the Dresden Files rules.

Tagging is the old name for free invocations.

@Metahuman1 It's not a nice sheet, but here's an easy list that you can print:

Invoking: Spending a fate point to take advantage of an aspect
Tagging: Invoking an aspect for free (generally because you've rolled real good when creating/discovering it)
Compelling: Spending a fate point to force someone else to mess up something because of one of their aspects

Metahuman1
2018-07-16, 10:17 AM
Anonymouswizard: I don't have any spare money for the books. I barely had like $8 for a thing of Fate Dice for the group. I only have The Dresden book because someone else I know lent it too me.


MrSandman: Thanks!




Does anyone know if they put out condensed need to know readers digest versions of some of the information? I'm looking for stuff the spell casting characters (Sorcerer and now that one of the Vamps has changed his mind, Warden Of The White Council Wizard.) and the White Court Vamps can have handed too them that has all the really important stuff for running a spell caster or a white court vamp (How there various magics/powers work, how the Laws of Magic work, bare bones need to know information about there faction, this sort of thing.).


I'd also love to find something I can have behind my GM screen that has a table for powers and stunts. "Stunt Name: Gives X bonus to Y thing/under Z circumstance." and "Power Name: Allows player to do X thing under Y circumstance, or ignore Z requirement to do X thing."

Anyone know of anything like that floating around, dirt cheap if not free? Maybe? I hope?

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-16, 10:43 AM
Anonymouswizard: I don't have any spare money for the books. I barely had like $8 for a thing of Fate Dice for the group. I only have The Dresden book because someone else I know lent it too me.

One Pay What You Want, including ****** all, pdf of Fate Core (http://drivethrurpg.com/product/114903/Fate-Core-System?filters=0_0_44284_0_0).

It's not a great way to learn the system, but once you know it it's a good reference and the cheat sheet in the back is amazing.

MrSandman
2018-07-16, 10:54 AM
Does anyone know if they put out condensed need to know readers digest versions of some of the information? I'm looking for stuff the spell casting characters (Sorcerer and now that one of the Vamps has changed his mind, Warden Of The White Council Wizard.) and the White Court Vamps can have handed too them that has all the really important stuff for running a spell caster or a white court vamp (How there various magics/powers work, how the Laws of Magic work, bare bones need to know information about there faction, this sort of thing.).


I'd also love to find something I can have behind my GM screen that has a table for powers and stunts. "Stunt Name: Gives X bonus to Y thing/under Z circumstance." and "Power Name: Allows player to do X thing under Y circumstance, or ignore Z requirement to do X thing."

Anyone know of anything like that floating around, dirt cheap if not free? Maybe? I hope?

You may want to look at EvilHat's downloads page (https://www.evilhat.com/home/dresden-files-rpg-downloads/). There's loads of stuff there.

Metahuman1
2018-07-20, 03:01 AM
Ok, been a hectic couple of days. Anyway.


I'll look into the books and list. Beyond that, I tried to get the sorcerer's sheet prepped today.

When I went into myth-weavers to set one up for him, I encountered a problem. I told it yes he was a caster, and it started asking me a bunch of questions about his spell casting that he wasn't prepared to answer and that left me uncertain on exactly what information it wanted.

Can, someone break this down for me?




Also, is it reasonable to allow him not to take Thaumagacy (The slow, ritual magic. Forgive the miss spelling, I'm away from my book ATM.), on the grounds that he's a young guy who just started having fire shoot out of his hands while under high intensity stress? He wants full evocation and the option to learn it later if the Wardens will stop dogging him, but for now, he wants to not have that cause he's so new at this.

Kardwill
2018-07-20, 04:16 AM
Also, is it reasonable to allow him not to take Thaumagacy (The slow, ritual magic. Forgive the miss spelling, I'm away from my book ATM.), on the grounds that he's a young guy who just started having fire shoot out of his hands while under high intensity stress? He wants full evocation and the option to learn it later if the Wardens will stop dogging him, but for now, he wants to not have that cause he's so new at this.

Yeah, a partial caster sounds reasonable : A youngling who mastered some of his powers, but didn't figure out or will need to learn the others (like The Sight?) Though specialised evocation (like fire chaneling?) would feel like a better fit for a young self-taught sorcerer.

For your Valkyrie character, the Dresden Accelerated book (another simpler Fate based Dresden game) has a valkyrie mantle, with a fair number of thematic stunts (stuff like Choser of the dead, Flight of the Raven, Monoc Security files...). The 2 games have compatibility issues, but I can check it if you're looking for ideas for Valkyrie stunt and powers?

Kardwill
2018-07-20, 04:39 AM
When in doubt, Stunts.

Seriously, IIRC powers in Dresden Files are like fairly broad stunts. So just have them take a bunch of Shoot stunts and maybe allow them to stack if you really want to play it up.

Or a homebrew power. Supernatural Accuracy: you gain a +2 to Athletics rolls to throw objects or Shoot rolls to use a weapon. That's probably 2-3 Refresh right there, you could also potentially set it up so you have the multiple levels of the other 'enhance physical abilities' powers. Anything more specific, well that's really a Stunt isn't it?

You could do it with both the Guns stunt from the book and one small power to represent the fact that the character is inhumanely good at it and can do some very impressive stuff.
For example :
"Fate guide my hand" : You can do trick shots simply out of the scope of normal humans, like firing though a crowd, ripping a piece of cloth or ricocheting a bullet around a street corner. Get a +2 to shoot for overcome or manoeuver rolls (not attacks) done with your gun in such circonstances. Your bullets will never strike a bystander, unless the GM compeled a Fate based aspect, like the ones created by the "choser of the dead" power

Metahuman1
2018-07-20, 10:26 PM
Yeah, a partial caster sounds reasonable : A youngling who mastered some of his powers, but didn't figure out or will need to learn the others (like The Sight?) Though specialised evocation (like fire chaneling?) would feel like a better fit for a young self-taught sorcerer.

For your Valkyrie character, the Dresden Accelerated book (another simpler Fate based Dresden game) has a valkyrie mantle, with a fair number of thematic stunts (stuff like Choser of the dead, Flight of the Raven, Monoc Security files...). The 2 games have compatibility issues, but I can check it if you're looking for ideas for Valkyrie stunt and powers?

Those are good for the Valkyrie, if you would be willing to look at it it can at least give me a work from point.


As for the Sorcerer, honestly to me the character sounds like a focused specialist pyromancer. But he's insisting on Sorcerer template. (If I'm being honest, he's kind of fussy that he can't be a fully turned Red or Black Court Vampire or a Knight Of The Blackened Denarius. He wants to be the nigh unstoppable villain who does horrible things and wins in the end. I suspect he's planning to be as difficult as possible going in. Though maybe I'm being uncharitable. I'll know for sure if he get's into the game and tries to split off from the group on a mostly permanent basis so that he can try to either have one on one sessions as an antagonist for the party, or to deliberately cause TPK's using the fact he's read the novels and most of the others haven't, or tries to make me split off and have to spend half the session just working on him. Again.).

But alright, no ritual magics. And by his own logic and his own assertions that this should be the case, he's not starting with focused items either.



So, that said, that Myth-weavers character sheet, what the heck do I even do with it to try and get the caster portion stated the rest of the way out?

Kardwill
2018-07-22, 03:09 PM
Okay, I do have my book with me, so let's look at the Valkyrie.

In DFA, a character's mantle is built with conditions (specialised consequences or stress tracks that can power some of the stunts. For example, the Clued in mortal has a "forbidden knowledge" stress track that can get him sone nice bonus in some situations, but means big trouble if he uses up all 5), core stunts, and additional stunts that can be bought with refresh.

The Valkyrie has hurt and injured conditions (that work as additionnal consequences, that can absorb stress loss but indicate that the fight might end up in her death. I think those can be covered by the inhuman or supernatural toughness powers in DFRPG), several stunts about rune magic (that you said doesn't interest your player), and these stunts
- chooser of the slain (core stunt) : once per session, the Valkyrie can decide a character is likely to die in a violent conflict. Every attack against this character during this conflict gains scale (in DFA, that means either a +1 to roll or a +2 damage). If he dies, you can then petition Odin to evaluate the slain for work at Monoc Security. The GM can suggest a strong candidate, but using the power is the Valkyrie's choice.

optional stunts :
- Einerjahr reinforcement : Once per session, you can call for one Einerjahr to join you at a future scene (+2 on everything forceful or brutal, +0 on the rest), or send a team on a task
- Perfect memory : once per session, with enough justification, you can automatically succeed at a task involving knowing specific information
- Monoc security files : Once per session, you can request all intel that Monoc has on a target. Creates or reveal an aspect with 2 free invokes (tags)
- Raven Kin : You have 2 fonctional black wings hidden by a glamour, allowing you short flights.
- Baroness of Beer : Your academic knowledge of alcoolic beverages gives you a +2 on social interactions where you could choose or bring the drink.

The chooser of the dead sounds as a given (that's what Valkyries do, after all), but apart from that, those stunts are very Monoc Security Councilor themed (i.e. this is the "I want to play Sigrun Gard" Mantle), so if your Valk is not a Monoc merc, or is more a pro assassin than a security councilor, there are probably provisions to be made (the "perfect memory" could become a "perfect eye", for example)

Maybe not DFA's most inspired Mantle (the mortal mantles like clued-in-mortal or criminal are pure love :smallsmile:), but it may help you.


As for the sorcerer : It sounds like a... difficult player. I had a few myself (until I "forgot" to invite the at my games), so I wish you the best of luck ^^

Metahuman1
2018-07-22, 06:37 PM
Trust me, I have evil, evil things planned for the sorcerer if he goes this route. In the mean time though I've got 2 actual casters and I need to Iron Out the rest of there sheets.

Metahuman1
2018-07-23, 05:39 AM
Valkyrie is set up and she's happy with it. Got one of the White Court vamps settled. Getting the other one pinned down today.

I'm just going to try and wing it with the Sorcerer and The Warden.




I have 3 more people, maybe 4 if one of them ever decides to confirm joining, to stat out.

But for now, I pose a question for a possible NPC.




I have the idea of giving the Warden a moral conundrum. A mortal who isn't breaking the laws of Magic, but is doing some **** that risks either exposing the supernatural scene, and is skirting some of the laws. Possibly with out even using magic (See below.).

So, If it were put to you to stat out the Pulp Character The Shadow, mostly as he's scene in the actual original pulps and perhaps with the radio versions ability to get people to do obviously self destructive things and see things that aren't there (Hold a Grenade after he's yanked the pin and primed it and made ready to throw it, instead of actually throwing it into a crowd, so that he blows himself up instead of the crowd. See things that aren't really on the road so that he'll drive through them, realize there not there, and then ignore it when something really IS on the road, and of course his invisibility except for his shadow when he's in bright light, and ability to do things like convince people most firmly, always, that there IS no shadow. Like, say, the chief of police. ),

As a human (no Vampires or Fey.),

who can do these things with out breaking the laws of magic? Bonus points if there not actually magic enough to mess up tech, or somehow a vanilla mortal.

Kardwill
2018-07-23, 07:24 AM
That sounds like a borderline viloation of the 3rd law (invading the mind of someone else), and direct violation of the 1st law (killing by magic). Bear in mind that even Molly's veils (that prevent people from noticing here) and her ability to read emotions are sometimes seen as borderline grey-magic in the book, so getting someone to kill himself/herself... If it's a human doing magic this way, the wardens would be on his back as soon as they hear about it.

So that leaves some possibilities :
* Not a human. Inhuman people get away with magical murder all the time, and the kind of compulsions and illusions you described fits the Fae Geas and Glamours pretty well. A Fae that prey on mortals with mind-magic would be protected by the Accords but still grate on the nerves of the Wardens pretty heavily. And an independant changeling with the same kind of power would be even more interesting, since he's half-human and not protected by the Courts ("Is he human enough to respond to the Law? And do I care after all he's done?"). But you ruled that out.

* It's not magic. But then how? Does he use weird superscience to influence people? Do you want to include that kind of stuff in your game? And if a tech does magic stuff, is it not really magic?
In my current campaign, I've got a necromancer (a medic at the Massachusetts General Hospital that uses the hospital's display Mummy Ka energy to revive and prolong his patient's life and his own by tying their lifeforce to the creature) who kinda gets away with it because "It's not magic, it's scieeeeence!" The doc's got no magical power, and doesn't really do rituals (although some of his procedures could look like blood magic), but he constructed devices powered by magical energy that do the deed for him. This kinda bull**** would probably get called out by the wardens, but he gets a pass because he's secretive, visible (he's a pillar of the mortal community) and protected (the local red court is very interested by his theories about the link between blood and lifeforce)

* He's not the one doing the magic : He uses a form of magical artefact, or he gets to use nonhuman magic to do it (like a captive faery). Those would be "grey" cases (we know the wardens kill "pure mortals" lawbreaking with sponsored magic, for exemple and this kind of "borrowed" power would be in the same ballpark), and would really depend on wether the warden is proactive and the culprit is protected.

* Used to be human, but not really a human anymore : A faery knight can use Faery power, and is considered a faery from a law POV, even if he's still mostly human. Other powers (old gods, dragons) can do this kind of deal. Sponsored magic is still lawbreaking magic, but not-humans are not beholden by the law. Again, some wardens might disagree with this reading. Bonus point, nonhuman magic doesn't mess with tech.

* Protected by the accords : The guy uses one of the methods described above, and is a member of an accorded nation. Even if he's technically a lawbreaker, going up against him would be an act of war.

Metahuman1
2018-07-23, 09:36 AM
Yeah, I know a Fairy or a somewhat skilled or inventive Vampire could do this no problem and get away with it. That's, too easy and also not really in the spirit of the character.




I know it's described as a secret art of Hypnotism form "The mystical orient." (The stuff was being written in the late 1920's through the 1950's, I didn't write it, not everything is up to modern PC standards, and frankly that is completely beside the point so PLEASE do not derail the thread being upset about it.).

Does strong and/or skillfully applied hypnosis count as actual magic for the setting?





Or, what if it's some variant he learned form a somewhat less benevolent spirit (Something similar too but not exactly the same as Bob.), that's been all but forgotten through that ages that works similar but not quite the same as the True Believers powers? Would that skirt it as being not *Technically* magic per-say? Enough to put the Warden doing anything about him in a firmly grey area?


I'm just spitballing ideas to make this work and not totally break setting lore. (Super Science is out for that reason incidentally. I feel bad that just to make sure one of the mortals could keep up, I let her get away with buying items that were Electronic and Wizard Proof, justifying it that she managed to earn a favor from the Svartalves, and these tricked out toys were what she used it to get. And that's just getting regular somewhat high end technology to work in the presence of normal magic users doing magic, or just to not wear down in there presence over time.)

Kardwill
2018-07-23, 10:01 AM
Or, what if it's some variant he learned form a somewhat less benevolent spirit (Something similar too but not exactly the same as Bob.), that's been all but forgotten through that ages that works similar but not quite the same as the True Believers powers? Would that skirt it as being not *Technically* magic per-say? Enough to put the Warden doing anything about him in a firmly grey area?

It sounds like sponsored magic, and I can see a mortal getting some specialized "knack" this way, but I think a Warden might take offense to that, in the same vein he might take offense to a mortal lawbreaker that got his power by dealing with demons, old Gods or Fae. They don't go after true believers, but then, true believers rarely use their power to directly destroy people and endager the universe. If Michael suddenly started throwing soulfire and burning people to a crisp with it, I imagine the council would have stern words about it, even if they dare not act.
But if the power is subtle, and if the council has trouble knowing how he did it, it might be enough of a grey area to stay the hand of a local warden, especially if said warden has already his hands full with clear threats like a vampire warparty or a coven of rogue warlocks.

As for a pulpish "mystical hypnotism", yeah, it could work too. Don't know how the wardens would judge that, though : Does it pings as "science" or "magic" on the local warden's moral compass? The arrival of a new sheriff in town would mean "interesting times" for our rogue mystic, I think ^^

Kardwill
2018-07-23, 10:14 AM
I'm just spitballing ideas to make this work and not totally break setting lore. (Super Science is out for that reason incidentally.

I agree it's a tricky stuff. In my campaign, I avoided the problem by deciding it's mostly bull**** : My "Frankenstein necromancer" is deluding himself. His unethical experiments allowed him to make great progress in theoric lifeforce knowledge, but his immortality-machines are mostly powered by rituals put in place by a rogue council wizard, so they are in fact more magical items than scientific machines. He's getting desperate because he made no progress in his "experiments" since his spellslinging partner mysteriously disappeared. And then, one of the PCs, the daughter and apprentice of the rogue council wizard, ends up in his intensive treatment ward. Next session should be interesting ^^

Metahuman1
2018-07-23, 10:47 AM
Right, and the thing of it is, I want the guy to be not an outright villain. I want him to be someone who is legitimately taking out people that NEED to be taken out. He's not bothering himself with purse snatchers or even people were it's a grey area because there mentally ill themselves.

He's going after people that know exactly what kinds of horrific crimes against humanity there committing, albeit on a small enough scale that they can usually cover it up and fly under the authorities radar enough to never get nailed for it. And he's taking them off the board. Permanently.

I just want the Warden to have to really struggle with the prospect of executing him. I mean, I *Guess* I could do some BS were he did something for Mab at some point and in exchange she issued a statement placing him under the legal protection of Winter, meaning now when he breaks laws of magic Winter has to judge him, the white council can't do more than give speeches about what a bad person he is cause they don't dare declare war on Winter.

And of course, for Winter, killing things and making people afraid of you is just what you DO and just what comes with the turf. "I found these people whom I took a personal dislike too, so I ended them." would fly every time with them.





But that's actually too far in that direction. That takes it form "I have a serious moral quandary." too "I am stuck by this Byzantian Legal Framework, unable to punish someone I KNOW is outright breaking the rules over his knee on purpose, but because of a different set of laws, I can't touch him with out dooming The White Council and perhaps all of Humanity, maybe the universe (Depending on if he knows about Winter and The Outer Gates.). "

That's not quite were I want him to be.

Kardwill
2018-07-24, 04:11 AM
Right, and the thing of it is, I want the guy to be not an outright villain. I want him to be someone who is legitimately taking out people that NEED to be taken out. He's not bothering himself with purse snatchers or even people were it's a grey area because there mentally ill themselves.

He's going after people that know exactly what kinds of horrific crimes against humanity there committing, albeit on a small enough scale that they can usually cover it up and fly under the authorities radar enough to never get nailed for it. And he's taking them off the board. Permanently.


So a vigilante killing Bad people for Good reasons? Could be an interesting antagonist, especially since in the Dresdenverse, this kind of misuse of power tends to turn horribly bad.
- either because of a power backlash (think of Molly's use of "benign" black magic and its horrendous consequences in "Proven Guilty"),
- an active corruption (black magic, even for a good cause, ends up distorting the people doing it. That's the reason why the council is so harsh even with first-time, legitimate-defense lawbreakers : They'll end up doig evilbad stuff down the line if they roam free),
- or simply because of the natural, nonmagic "power corrupts" principle. Can you imagine being able to distort people minds at will to "solve the world's problems"? To be judge, jury and executionner of your own self-appointed moral court of law? The god complex you would develop over time?
- And what would happen if something threatens his "crusade", like a nosy cop or a dangerous witness, and the only tool he has is either a mindwipe or a murderhammer? It could end up with a "Deathnote" level of bad (in case you don't know : a manga where a teenager finds a magic book that allows him to kill anyone, anywhere, anytime with freak accidents, and decides that since he's got the power of a god, he will use it to purge society of criminals and anybody he deems "evil", including those that would stop his campaign of terror. The creep ends up killing more cops and innocent witnesses than criminals)

Personally I would play it like a first-and-third-law warlock with Good Reasons, and with a method just unusual enough to be "grey magic" (your "pulp hypnotism" could work). Sure, he's doing good, and saving lives right now, but the wardens know this kind of things always end up bad, right? And the usual "what gives you the right to kill them?" would be pretty hypocritical given the warden's own activities.

As for the reason it's up to the local warden, and not the council? Without using the full protection of the accords (although a minor power would be possible : just enough protection to make the warden's action illegal, but none of the backlash of going against Winter), he could simply be high profile enough or have friends powerful enough that his disappearance would draw the wrong kind of attention (Maybe he has his own TV show? Or he's the mayor's personal lifecoach?), so the council won't push toward direct action. But the warden can see what happens, both the good (the guy prevented some very bad stuff from happening, while the warden's hands were tied because no magic was involved) and the ugly, and will have to investigate and make a choice. Could be interesting if the warden player likes those kind of dilemmas ^^

Metahuman1
2018-07-25, 03:02 AM
Hmmmm, that, could work. I like the idea he's got an Alter-Ego who's just too important to the mortal authority's for the senior council to do the usual routine with him. It's not the kind of "ANOTHER FREAKING WAR?! ARE YOU STUPID?!!!" situation him being tied to the Fey or Vampire Courts would bring down, but it *Does* put them in juuuuuuust enough of a bind to leave it in a Warden's lap and be willing to just turn on the Warden if it goes south.


Now, if I can juuuuuuuuust get a grip on the magic rules for the system and get my head around them, I should be ok for a start point. (Unless that last guy whom I'm cutting slack throw's me a real curve ball. )

Kardwill
2018-07-25, 03:21 AM
Now, if I can juuuuuuuuust get a grip on the magic rules for the system and get my head around them,

Good luck on that one, I'm GMing DFRPG since 2015 and I still struggle with the magic system. ^^
It's come to the point that I think I'll simply switch the convoluted thaumaturgy and ritual rules for the simpler ones in DF Accelerated. Don't think my wizard-apprentice player will mind either.

Metahuman1
2018-07-25, 10:01 PM
Jeez, there that bad? Really?

I was always under the impression that the whole point of building onto the fate system was to keep the mechanics simple and intuitive!?

Kardwill
2018-07-26, 03:03 AM
Jeez, there that bad? Really?

I was always under the impression that the whole point of building onto the fate system was to keep the mechanics simple and intuitive!?

To be honest, many people seem to have no problem playing them, and I've played far more complicated systems over the years myself. Maybe in my old age, I've grown a little lazy when it comes to memorizing rules. ^^

But yeah, Fate is known for its simple (although not always intuitive) rules, and it's part of the reason it's been my go-to system since 2012. But some implementations add plenty of thematic subsystems on top of the basic Fate system, and DFRPG is one of them.

Still a very cool game, though. And I understand why they did magic this way : Their magic system, with its long preparation stage, its draining effect/environmental damage, and the dangers of The Sight, reproduces perfectly magic as we see it in the novels.

I personally prefer the way Dresden Files Accelerated did it, but DFA's rules are more "fuzzy", so some players prefer the crunchier DFRPG.

Metahuman1
2018-07-26, 03:52 AM
Fair enough I suppose. Worse case I can just wing it trial and error style. (And if I'm being honest, I expect at least 3-4 of the other party members will gank the sorcerer at some point if he doesn't learn quickly when to tread lightly, and when not to tread at all.)




One other thing, just to make sure I'm grasping this correctly. Stunts and powers don't cost fate points to use every time you use them, right?

MrSandman
2018-07-26, 04:07 AM
One other thing, just to make sure I'm grasping this correctly. Stunts and powers don't cost fate points to use every time you use them, right?

Not unless the description says otherwise. Some stunts are rather powerful, so they can be limited by having you spend one fate point to use them. But in that case, the description will say it. If there's nothing, no fate point is required.

Kardwill
2018-07-26, 04:09 AM
One other thing, just to make sure I'm grasping this correctly. Stunts and powers don't cost fate points to use every time you use them, right?

Some of the most powerful stunts and powers in Fate games may cost FP when used, but only if it is written in the stunt's description, and most of them don't. Can't remember if there are "paid" stunts/powers in DFRPG.

If a particular stunt doesn't say something like "when using this stunt, spend a fate point to...", then, nope, no cost when you use it.

Keep in mind you paid for it at character creation by burning refresh (and thus future Fate points), though.

EDIT : ninja'ed by the far more concise Mr Sandman ^^

Metahuman1
2018-07-27, 09:46 AM
So, another player changed his mind on what he wants to play. Instead of the bone-demon-guy thing, he wants to give a Knight Of The Cross a spin.



I would like something clarified. When a Knight of the Cross is interacting with a Knight Of The Blackened Denarious, and said Knight of the Blackened Denarious isn't actively showing his powers, is the knight suppose to know anyway what he's looking at/dealing with? Get a feeling or, something of the sort?

What about if there using powers that are perhaps on the more subtle side? Magic for instance that they might guise up as a case of just being a somewhat skilled wizard or the like? Are they suppose to get a feeling or something then?



I'm asking cause I want to make sure that I don't goof up and screw him into a BS fall scene when I have no business doing so, while still allowing the Denariens to at least try to be sneaky/dishonest/subtle.

GrayDeath
2018-07-28, 05:28 AM
They do not., as long as nothing of the Fallen is used (and vice versa for the KotBD unless they are carrying a Sword or using their Faith).

But then again, aside from Nicodemus (and Lasciel if she has a Host) the Denarians are as subtle as Donald Trump at best, so it should not be a problem to be suspicious for your KotC.

And once they are watched closely, they are sure to slip up quickly (again, they tend to be rather EvilGraaahMeeIs!!" ^^).

Metahuman1
2018-07-28, 12:02 PM
Interesting. This came up cause the GM for a one shot get togeather (we actually do character gen and then 2-3 session adventures with 1 a month meetings.) allowed a KotBD into the party for 3 sessions, let him succeed at using his powers, and not being noticed when doing it,



With a Knight Of The Cross also in the party. (Said member largely screwed the whole party and the city we were operating in in the process. I was not amused.).






That said, the way I'm reading it, using his Fallen Powers should have instantly given him away, correct?

GrayDeath
2018-07-28, 04:39 PM
Powers directly given by his Passenger, yes.

Any Spellcasting, Shapeshifting, Hellfire and so forth.

Using the hosts abilities that the guest only taught to use better and similar, not, as evident in the latest book of the series (dang, cant wait for Peace talks, its been years!).

Now if the KotC was VERSY new, he might only recognise them as something sinister and wrong feeling", I dont know the exact circumstances, but they were made specifically to confront (and save) the Fallen and their hosts, so ...yeah.

The Random NPC
2018-07-28, 07:12 PM
Knights of the Cross tend to show up wherever the Order of the Blackened Denarius are doing things. So even if the Denarius isn't doing much, the Knight could justify being paranoid, which doesn't bode well for the Denarius.

Metahuman1
2018-07-28, 10:10 PM
I see. I'll be filing that away, thanks for the help! =)

Kardwill
2018-07-30, 02:36 AM
Knights of the Cross tend to show up wherever the Order of the Blackened Denarius are doing things. So even if the Denarius isn't doing much, the Knight could justify being paranoid, which doesn't bode well for the Denarius.

Not always so : He'll be drawn to them, sure, but KotC can be embroiled in other affairs (that can be dangerous, as they are not protected by providence during "private time"), so if he helps another PC on a problem, he might not suspect the Denarian. Especially if there is another obvious evilbad guy to deal with. Or if the host is already bad news that has to be taken care of.
In the books, we've seen Michael completely miss 2 "undercover denarians" right under his nose because he was fixated on the obvious threat of other, unmasked devils (and maybe also because the "wrongness" of the 2 undercover D coud be attributed to other factors, such as black magic).

If the Fallen don't manifest itself, a wizard's Sight and Soulgaze might be better "devil detectors", but many wizards are not keen on using the Sight on unknown creatures, since nobody wants to memorize a lovecraftian horror in loving details (In my campaign, the Wizard player never uses The Sight precisely because of the dangers that go with that power).

Metahuman1
2018-07-31, 02:18 AM
Great.






Also, the Venattori player asked an, interesting question. Is Holy Water Diluted in effectiveness if you pour it into regular water?

She's had the idea of rather than having a pitched fight with Black Court Vampires in certain buildings, a party tactic might be to simply get one of those free flasks of holy water you can get at a lot of churches and have a pixie pour it into the water reserve tank for the buildings sprinkler system. Then give it a lighter or a book of matches and tell it to go in there and set off the fire alarm so the sprinklers will start.



I honestly kind of like this tactic, but I don't know if it's something that will actually work in setting. Anyone have an answer too that?

Kardwill
2018-07-31, 02:49 AM
Wasn't it used in the Constantine movie? But yeah, the tactic is fun. We see stuff like holy water balloon used in the books, but I don't remember diluted water being used, so it's your call.

Pro :
- They need to do preparations, so that creates an interesting scene
- it's fun and in the spirit of the books to deal with an antediluvian night-terror with something as mundane as a mall sprinkler ("Welcome to the 21st Century, pal")
- Allows the human Venatory to shine and look badass by taking down creatures FAR above his boxing weight.

Con :
- Turns something special and symbolic (holy water) into simple chemistry, which might cheapen the idea.
- Can be horribly abused


There has to be a limit, of course, otherwise a smartass player will throw some holy water in the ocean (or drink it and say "Tomorrow, I'll have holy blood and holy pee!"), but if it's not abused I'd allow it. That said, it's not a sure method :
- Maybe diluted water is less effective? (like burning them, or forcing them to flee, but not dissolving their flesh) It's not so much dilution itself, but the fact that you're "spoiling" the sanctified water?
- Black V tend to make their nest in dark corners : basements or attics, old building, places where sprinklers might not be installed/functionnal.

Either of those makes the method powerful, but not reliable. That way, the players are rewarded for coming up with an unconventional (and fun) tactic, but can't abuse it and rely on it all the time (the first time it's used is fun, but using it repeatedly would be pretty boring).



Not that the sprinklers will be the wizards' (nor the black court sorcerer's) friends either : running water has a tendency to mess up magic by "grounding" it. And if the basement ends up flooded, BCV don't need to breathe...

Metahuman1
2018-07-31, 04:10 AM
Wasn't it used in the Constantine movie? But yeah, the tactic is fun. We see stuff like holy water balloon used in the books, but I don't remember diluted water being used, so it's your call.






Not exactly, in the Constantine movie, he had some crucifix that belonged to some saint that that had some kind of mojo of there own, and it was fabled to instantly sanctify any water it made contact with. So he got his side kick guy to run up to the roof and drop it the water tanks for the system before they went in the building.

That sort of thing would be an Item of Power, and that's not quite the direction they'd want to go too. Sanctified items of 1 specific important saint are a LOT harder to come across than a bottle of holy water from the local catholic or orthodox church after all.

Cluedrew
2018-07-31, 01:08 PM
- Maybe diluted water is less effective? (like burning them, or forcing them to flee, but not dissolving their flesh) It's not so much dilution itself, but the fact that you're "spoiling" the sanctified water?That might work. Thematically I think it would help if there is an explicate rule that it doesn't matter what the dilution is, diluted holy water has a reduced effect.

Another limit you could add is that a believer (someone who knows it is holy water and wants it to work) has to be there. Their belief acts as an active ingredient to make it work. It would cut off remote water-bombing, which would probably be the un-dramatic conclusion to escalating holy-water warfare. So you can keep the PCs present at the very least.

Metahuman1
2018-08-01, 04:39 AM
That might work. Thematically I think it would help if there is an explicate rule that it doesn't matter what the dilution is, diluted holy water has a reduced effect.

Another limit you could add is that a believer (someone who knows it is holy water and wants it to work) has to be there. Their belief acts as an active ingredient to make it work. It would cut off remote water-bombing, which would probably be the un-dramatic conclusion to escalating holy-water warfare. So you can keep the PCs present at the very least.

That latter idea about needing a believer present has an issue though. Harry's NOT really a believer, at least as of book 6, by his own assessment and description. And yet Holy Water in a Water Balloon works juuuuuuust fine for him when he uses it.


Even when the only people present are himself, a Black Court Vamp he's using this on, and Thomas Wraith, who's not exactly much of a believer himself.




I have however come to a solution that the venatori player is on board with.

She runs a shop as a sort of front for an Accorded Neutral Territory. She has a priest come in and Sanctify the place once a week to give it more protection from either supernatural types that might get the idea to try and flout the rules since it's run by a mortal, or from just collateral damage if some super naturals decide to "step outside" as it goes to have a grudge match.


We had the idea that because the shop is part of a larger complex, and she's got money and political connections, it wouldn't be overly hard to get the priest on his weekly visit to also have him regularly, and to the knowledge of basically no one else, go up to the water tanks for the sprinkler system for the whole complex, and bless that water to make it holy water too boot. As a "just in case" kind of thing since The Black Court are probably going to be recurring bad guys in the game. (I like villain's no one needs to feel bad about taking off the board permanently.).


Thus, Black Court shows up here to make trouble, she's got a serious leg up. (And it happens at a timing of my choosing, also nice.)

But she can't use it unless they come to her, so to speak. Meaning they can maintain something like a home field advantage. And it plays into the fact that frequently having a well prepared home base of operations means your very dangers to go after on home turf.

Cluedrew
2018-08-01, 07:53 AM
That latter idea about needing a believer present has an issue though. Harry's NOT really a believer, at least as of book 6, by his own assessment and description. And yet Holy Water in a Water Balloon works juuuuuuust fine for him when he uses it.Which is why I clarify what believer was supposed to mean here. It means one who knows that it is holy water and wants it to work. In other words you don't have to believe in the larger picture, just in the holy water itself.

And he seems to have believed in the holy water, otherwise why would he have tried to use it? But yeah maybe believer isn't the best word for it. Although some of the connotations are right it is also almost always refers to your more general belief.

Kardwill
2018-08-01, 09:33 AM
Which is why I clarify what believer was supposed to mean here. It means one who knows that it is holy water and wants it to work. In other words you don't have to believe in the larger picture, just in the holy water itself.


Dunno. I don't think an iron sword would be less dangerous for Fey if wielded by a mundane who doesn't know about it, for example, or that a home would lose its threshold when the inhabitant is out, and I don't see why the holy water catch would be different. And "accidental poisoning by cold iron/holy water" has a nice dramatic irony potential.

Cluedrew
2018-08-01, 10:01 AM
I could totally spin some reasons why those might be different. I suppose the ideal case is no one tried to abuse holy water to the extent you actual feel you need this to keep them in check.

Metahuman1
2018-08-01, 11:51 AM
In Fairness, I anticipate most Black Courts will be using dominated minions and Renfields first, and they will also be regularly encountering general nasty spirits/critters that wandered out of the NeverNever, as well as Warlocks and Fomor and once in a while, organized crime.


So, they won't be able to get out of every tight spot with holy water by a long shot.

Metahuman1
2018-08-19, 03:54 AM
Update:


Ok, so, we've had City Building, and are starting Play on the 30th. The party came up with some NPC's, and I need to stat them out.

I've got:

A Rather Old Black Court Vampire who likes to operate by surrogates.

A Spirit of Patriotism and Nationalism that manifests itself like a massive eagle-man cross-species the size of a bear and decked out in Red, White and Blue,

A Russian and a Brizilain Mobster whom are in a supernaturally escalating gang war over territory in the city,

A Dragon who's interested in restoring stability to the power Vacuumed area, by any means necessary. And while he'd rather do it through proxies, he also does not care who dies to make it happen.

A Sorcerer who's working as the team Mascot for the local NFL team and doing SOMETHING weird too it that's making it loose a lot, and has been for years, yet for some reason, hasn't been taken out by the White council yet.

A Navy Admiral at the local base who's helped some of the local military personnel stationed there become aware of the supernatural, and start running around killing the supernatural vigilante fashion.

A somewhat corrupt local sheriff who's covering up the supernatural by any means necessary.

A White Court Vamp who's a former city mayor.

And a Fomor Sorcerer who's operating as the head of the Local branch of The Church Of Scientology, and sending them out to preach and try to convert, Jehovah's Witness style, and in so doing, try to line up good targets to pick off in the manner of minor mortal magic users.




I was wondering if anyone would care to help me stat these guys out?

Metahuman1
2018-08-19, 09:02 PM
No one's got anything for these?