methodes for adjusting wildshapes to higehr levels

[Aurich]

D&d 5E

I'm looking for reasonable methodes to adjust wildshapes to higher levels, while avoiding becoming too OP.
i doubtly get to include dino's in the story so the list of shapes gets shorter

One idea i had was every odd or 3 lvls the druid adds a hitdie to the wildshape and the wildshape also uses ASI.

But perhaps there are more tested options.

Who can help me?

[nickl_2000]

Wildshapes do adjust to higher levels, simply by higher CRs existings. Now if you want to do something where someone can pick a single shape and have it ramp up that's a different situation. Things I would look at

Increase to the hit based on PCs proficiency
Increase the damage at levels 5, 11, and 17 (when cantrips shift)
Increase the armor based on PCs proficiency
Increase the Hit Dice based on the PCs hit dice. However, doing this is going to make the Moon Druid even more of a damage sponge.


With any of it, it will need some experimentation. So, if a player is playing a Moon Druid, make sure they know that rules may change.



Alternately, if Dino's are appropriate to the setting, reskin them as something that is more appropriate. Instead of a Mammoth, it's a Dire Bear. Make something a Dire Bison, Dire Goat, Dire Wiener Dog (3 feet tall, but 25 feet long).

[ruy343]

D&d 5E

I'm looking for reasonable methodes to adjust wildshapes to higher levels, while avoiding becoming too OP.
i doubtly get to include dino's in the story so the list of shapes gets shorter

One idea i had was every odd or 3 lvls the druid adds a hitdie to the wildshape and the wildshape also uses ASI.

But perhaps there are more tested options.

Who can help me?

Um... pretty sure that most people feel that wild shape is a pretty powerful ability to start with. Higher-level druids simply get to use it more often, and have access to higher-level-CR creatures than before, so it does scale.

Are you feeling like your druid isn't as effective as he/she was at level 2? Because that's good. Druids (especially Moon Druids) are pretty much OP at level 2.

[Corpsecandle717]

Um... pretty sure that most people feel that wild shape is a pretty powerful ability to start with. Higher-level druids simply get to use it more often, and have access to higher-level-CR creatures than before, so it does scale.

Are you feeling like your druid isn't as effective as he/she was at level 2? Because that's good. Druids (especially Moon Druids) are pretty much OP at level 2.

Moon druids drop off around levels 6-9 and 13-ish to 18. There's just not a lot of Beasts above CR 3. Elementals at 10 give a bump, but those require 2 charges of wild shape and depending on your role in the party, that can be hard to have available. Of course the Druid is a spell caster and most players start to focus on that aspect when they're in these ranges, but it's entirely reasonable for people try to find ways to extend the viability of their favorite part of the class.

[Lunali]

Um... pretty sure that most people feel that wild shape is a pretty powerful ability to start with. Higher-level druids simply get to use it more often, and have access to higher-level-CR creatures than before, so it does scale.

Are you feeling like your druid isn't as effective as he/she was at level 2? Because that's good. Druids (especially Moon Druids) are pretty much OP at level 2.

Unless you mean lvl 20, druids don't get to use it more often at higher level.

[ruy343]

I apologize for my previous rudeness.

Wild shape at low levels is a very powerful ability. Once wizards gain access to polymorph however, it does become rather moot, since druids are restricted in what they can turn into (specifically beasts). However, druids continue to get useful spells and have a full spell progression which, although not as amazing as a wizard's, is still very relevant. Clerics are in much the same boat in this sense: their high-level spells aren't as flashy as a wizard's, but they get some early game utility that continues to be relevant (although less so as time moves on).

I am of the opinion that the wild shape ability doesn't need to be modified from its current form at all because of its high versatility and application in non-combat encounters even at high levels. My opinion is obviously not the only one that matters.

[PhantomSoul]

Unless you mean lvl 20, druids don't get to use it more often at higher level.

In fact, Moon Druids will potentially use it less often from levels 10 to 19 rather than more!



Level Range
Non-Moon Druid
Moon Druid (Beast)
Moon Druid (Elemental)


1
0
0
0


2-9
2/SR
2/SR
N/A


10-19
2/SR
2/SR
1/SR


20
"Infinite"
"Infinite"
"Infinite"

[Vogie]

Xanathar's also introduced Guardian of Nature as a level 4 spell that can be preemptively used to upgrade your wild shape abilities in either a offensive or defensive capacities.

[NaughtyTiger]

I am of the opinion that the wild shape ability doesn't need to be modified from its current form at all because of its high versatility and application in non-combat encounters even at high levels.

I am running a level 13 moon druid.
I use wild shape maybe once a session, to overcome an obstacle not combat.
I have way too many spells that I need to cast instead.(I am the party healer)
I wish i had gone land instead.

[sophontteks]

I am running a level 13 moon druid.
I use wild shape maybe once a session, to overcome an obstacle not combat.
I have way too many spells that I need to cast instead.(I am the party healer)
I wish i had gone land instead.
If you tank instead of heal you would be more effective. All damage done to you is wasted and you are a very easy-to-hit, attractive target. You are wasting your potential if you are healing in combat.

Most of the best druid spells are concentration. Cast one spell on round one and shapeshift as a bonus action. Heal by taking hits for other people and cast your healing spells after combat ends.

[Breashios]

When I ran PotA, I did not allow unobserved animal shapes, but I did allow animals that had been observed as smaller size to scale up in size. Not a bear/fish large enough for the available CR, I just scaled up the bear/fish appropriately. Worked perfectly. Never too powerful, no out of left field abilities to break an encounter, and player was very happy with the solution. He did use the known abilities very creatively however.

He was also the party healer, unfortunately, so did have to drop form early on occassion to save a party member or ally. Part of the challenge.

[Theodoxus]

I added a feat that allows a moon druid to assume a beast form equal to his hit dice, but only for 1 minute, rather than level/2 hours.

Since most combats only last a minute at most (and frequently far less), it's a decent trade off I've found.

The level 15 Moon Druid in my group typically turns into a triceratops, but I also allowed the Book of Beasts (kobold press, I believe), which greatly expanded his bestiary options.

I really like the feat, as it lets the player feel powerful without running rampant over multiple encounters with a very powerful form. There's still Polymorph if he needs a more utilitarian high CR form.

[Sigreid]

I would consider an alternate path. What about a ranger subclass that specializes in wild shape? I think boosting wild shape on a full caster is a mistake. Having a range "master of forms" subclass would potentially work for me though.

[Vogie]

I would consider an alternate path. What about a ranger subclass that specializes in wild shape? I think boosting wild shape on a full caster is a mistake. Having a range "master of forms" subclass would potentially work for me though.

That could certainly work. Probably give them something in between a normal Druid and a Moon druid. I'd say something like


Starting at 2nd level, you can use your action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. You can use this feature twice. You regain expended uses when you finish a short or long rest. This increases to three times, at 7th level, four times at 14th level, and unlimited at 20th level

Your druid level determines the beasts you can transform into, as shown in the Beast Shapes table. At 2nd level, for example, you can transform into any beast that has a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower that doesn’t have a flying or swimming speed.

Beast Shapes
Lvl. |------| CR |------| Limitations
2nd |------|1/4 |------|No flying or swimming speed
4th |------|1/2 |------|No flying or swimming speed
6th |------|1/2 |------|No flying speed
8th |------| 1 |------|No flying speed
10th |------| 1 |------|None
14th |------| 2 |------|None
18th |------| 3 |------|None

[Corpsecandle717]

I am of the opinion that the wild shape ability doesn't need to be modified from its current form at all because of its high versatility and application in non-combat encounters even at high levels. My opinion is obviously not the only one that matters.


I would consider an alternate path. What about a ranger subclass that specializes in wild shape? I think boosting wild shape on a full caster is a mistake. Having a range "master of forms" subclass would potentially work for me though.

Okay lets rephrase it like this then: "Does anyone know of a good reliable way to scale up monsters so I can reuse lower creatures in higher level campaigns and still make them a threat"

[Malifice]

I am running a level 13 moon druid.
I use wild shape maybe once a session, to overcome an obstacle not combat.
I have way too many spells that I need to cast instead.(I am the party healer)
I wish i had gone land instead.

Short rest more.

[PhantomSoul]

Short rest more.

From my interpretation (I could definitely be wrong!), it seemed like the complaint wasn't that they were running out of Wild Shapes, but that the opportunity cost to being in Wild Shape was too high (ie. their Wild Shape didn't feel strong enough to compete with spellcasting, with healing spells being especially needed).

[hymer]

From my interpretation (I could definitely be wrong!), it seemed like the complaint wasn't that they were running out of Wild Shapes, but that the opportunity cost to being in Wild Shape was too high (ie. their Wild Shape didn't feel strong enough to compete with spellcasting, with healing spells being especially needed).
From my interpretation (I could definitely be wrong!), it seemed like the suggestion wasn't that they should do more Wild Shapes, but that the opportunity cost to not using Hit Dice healing was too high (i.e. the group expected the druid to heal them, meaning that too many spells were used on healing). :smallwink:

[Malifice]

From my interpretation (I could definitely be wrong!), it seemed like the suggestion wasn't that they should do more Wild Shapes, but that the opportunity cost to not using Hit Dice healing was too high (i.e. the group expected the druid to heal them, meaning that too many spells were used on healing). :smallwink:

Exactly. Short resting fixes this problem. They can use thier HD to heal.

He can stay in Elemental form during the Short rest and use its HD to heal himself also.

While chilling out in Elemental form, his Wild shapes reset. Meaning after the rest he can pop out of elemental form, cast whatver he wants, and then go back into elemental form, all in time for the next short rest (again using the Elementals HD to heal).