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View Full Version : Optimization Balance Concerns with Hand-Crossbow Build



PanosIs
2018-07-12, 07:43 PM
Greetings playground,

I'll be playing on a level 15 fifth edition oneshot on the following week, and since the atmosphere is pretty lighthearted I decided to play a weird character I wouldn't choose to play in most any other game. However I have been having some balance concerns regarding the build being a bit too strong for my own liking and would like some feedback on it. It is as follows:

Elf (Shadar-Kai) Fighter (Battlemaster) 11/Warlock (Hexblade) 4 wielding 2 Hand-Crossbows*
w/ Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Silver-Tongued, Elven Accuracy

So, the general idea is to wade into combat, start with a Silver-Tongued feint as the first attack (with Expertise on Deception and solid CHA), and then follow up with two rounds of peppering with 3-4 powershot Hand-Crossbow attacks with advantage+ from Elven Accuracy.

The math check out to a +7 to hit with advantage+ and a damage of ~2d6+15** per attack, which already seems like it's very consistent and strong. Add to that the fact that with the Hexblade Curse, albeit once per rest I get to the 19-20 crit range which should make one in three attacks a crit with Elven Accuracy and another +4 to damage from CHA. Add on top of that slight spellcasting and extra Battlemaster maneuvers, and it seems like something I'd maybe uncomfortable with DMing in this edition, although it's been some time since I ran 5e.

Note that we're playing with two quite experienced players along with two newbies, so I do expect to be quite a differentiation in build quality although since the DM is helping out I don't expect to see anything go wrong (And screwing up is quite hard in this edition).

So, what are your thoughts?

* Yes, it's not raw, but Crossbow Expert works with one Hand-Crossbow and dual-wielding looks cooler, so it was allowed by the DM.
** I will probably have magic weapons dealing an extra 1d6 elemental damage, or Hex, or whatever.

Ganymede
2018-07-12, 09:13 PM
You're level 15. I wouldn't worry about it.

MaxWilson
2018-07-12, 09:26 PM
Note that Hexblades only get to use Cha for one weapon, so one of your hand crossbows will do less damage than the other.

Yes, you'll be very strong compared to a bog- standard featless archer. What kind of feedback were you looking for? Do you want someone to say "don't do it, it's not fair to the other players"? Depends on the other players, and you know them better than we do.

Zalabim
2018-07-13, 02:03 AM
Well, silver-tongued only works on Humanoids, and even then has to be used again on each new target. Having a large damage bonus to begin with works against using sharpshooter on your attacks. I'm not sure you're really benefiting from using charisma for your attacks instead of dexterity. It seems like 20 dexterity would be better for you. I'm always worried that builds like these will fail to meet expectations, instead of overperforming.

MaxWilson
2018-07-13, 08:49 AM
BTW what is Silver-Tongued? Is it a UA thing or from Mordenkainen's somewhere?

CheddarChampion
2018-07-13, 09:02 AM
Silver-tongued is from the 'feats for skills' UA. Charisma +1, expertise in deception, and the ability to feint for advantage.

PeteNutButter
2018-07-13, 09:25 AM
So you basically checked every box of optimization in fighter 11, SS, Elven Accuracy, and CBE... and then are concerned it's going to be too powerful? Offensively, yes this character is almost as optimized as you can get for that level and will likely embarrass the other PCs on damage output.

That being said, it doesn't seem that you've put any focus on defense. Any good DM will try to squish you ASAP or better yet use some manner of domination to have you pepper the party with those 4 bolts of death per round. If the DM is good and experienced, I would be far more worried about just making myself a target (without the defense to handle that). There is a reason most of my overpowered characters that I actually play are tanks.

*If you're given the choice of magic weapon always take the +x weapons when using SS/GWM.

Mister_Squinty
2018-07-13, 09:58 AM
Instead of Silver Tongued, why not just go Eldritch Knight over Battlemaster and grab Faerie Fire or Darkness for happy On Demand Advantage Goodness? Then you can take Shield to get Emergency AC and drop one level of Hexblade.