Help on SS/Crossbow Expert Fighter (Archer) Build

[BestDmanNA]

Background: So we are using a homebrew variant in our game that essentially accentuates the differences between races. For example, it allows an elf to have a +2 to the maximum dexterity (to a new cap of 22 instead of 20) in addition to your standard +2 to Dexterity they give you for whatever your base Dexterity is. This is supposed to represent that the strongest orc in the world will always be stronger than the elf equivalent, because of genes and breeding etc. Anyway...

Problem: For the purposes of this question, my Dexterity is starting at 17 before any modifiers from race/whatever. This post is mainly about V. Human vs. Elf.

If I go V. Human: I start with 18 Dex and Crossbow Expert, I will by default have both key feats by level 4 (getting SS at this level), and 20 Dex by level 6. Pretty standard build, gets you the feat combo ASAP etc. Also worth noting that I won't have darkvision, harder in caves etc.

If I go Elf: I will start with a 19 Dexterity, get Crossbow Expert by level 4, SS level 6, Elven Accuracy at 8 (+1 to Dex, and advantage gives 3 dice instead of normal 2, for those who aren't aware) which puts me at 20 Dexterity total at 8, and finally 22 Dexterity at level 12. It is also worth noting I will have Darkvision for dungeons etc.

Question: Simply put, based on the above information, do you think the heavy delay on the feat combo etc. is worth having the Extra 2 Dexterity (+1 Dex mod) later on? This is a long-term campaign, if that is relevant. We are starting at level 2.

Bonus Question: Regardless of the above decision, is it worth taking a 1 level dip into (Light) Cleric at any point? If so, at what point would you recommend it? There are three casters in the party beyond this, (bard, cleric, Wizard). This would grant me access to guidance, mending, light, and spare the dying for cantrips. In addition, I would get 2 spell slots per long rest to use spells such as faerie fire and bless, and 3 times per long rest to impose disadvantage via Warding Flare. Also grants the party as a whole another concentration slot.

This focuses on the utility/defense aspect instead of pure damage, which the rest of the build focuses on and provides. Finally, any general advice/tips for this build is appreciated!

Conclusion: Regardless, I thank you for taking the time to read and/or respond to my thread. Have a great day, thanks again for any help!

[MaxWilson]

Background: So we are using a homebrew variant in our game that essentially accentuates the differences between races. For example, it allows an elf to have a +2 to the maximum dexterity (to a new cap of 22 instead of 20) in addition to your standard +2 to Dexterity they give you for whatever your base Dexterity is. This is supposed to represent that the strongest orc in the world will always be stronger than the elf equivalent, because of genes and breeding etc. Anyway...

Good rule variant BTW. I like it.


Problem: For the purposes of this question, my Dexterity is starting at 17 before any modifiers from race/whatever. This post is mainly about V. Human vs. Elf.

If I go V. Human: I start with 18 Dex and Crossbow Expert, I will by default have both key feats by level 4 (getting SS at this level), and 20 Dex by level 6. Pretty standard build, gets you the feat combo ASAP etc. Also worth noting that I won't have darkvision, harder in caves etc.

If I go Elf: I will start with a 19 Dexterity, get Crossbow Expert by level 4, SS level 6, Elven Accuracy at 8 (+1 to Dex, and advantage gives 3 dice instead of normal 2, for those who aren't aware) which puts me at 20 Dexterity total at 8, and finally 22 Dexterity at level 12. It is also worth noting I will have Darkvision for dungeons etc.

Question: Simply put, based on the above information, do you think the heavy delay on the feat combo etc. is worth having the Extra 2 Dexterity (+1 Dex mod) later on? This is a long-term campaign, if that is relevant. We are starting at level 2.

Yes, I think the extra Dex in the long run is absolutely worth the pain from levels 1-6, especially if since you get High Elf cantrips (Booming Blade) and some other elfy bonuses like advantage against Hypnotic Pattern/Dominate Person. I would go this route personally.


Bonus Question: Regardless of the above decision, is it worth taking a 1 level dip into (Light) Cleric at any point? If so, at what point would you recommend it? There are three casters in the party beyond this, (bard, cleric, Wizard). This would grant me access to guidance, mending, light, and spare the dying for cantrips. In addition, I would get 2 spell slots per long rest to use spells such as faerie fire and bless, and 3 times per long rest to impose disadvantage via Warding Flare. Also grants the party as a whole another concentration slot.

This focuses on the utility/defense aspect instead of pure damage, which the rest of the build focuses on and provides. Finally, any general advice/tips for this build is appreciated!

Conclusion: Regardless, I thank you for taking the time to read and/or respond to my thread. Have a great day, thanks again for any help!

I don't recommend the Light cleric dip. Sounds like your party already has plenty of spellcasters. More concentration for the party is never a bad thing, but you can get that just by going Eldritch Knight and using your concentration on Expeditious Retreat or Magic Weapon or Darkness (for advantage on attacks--note that by strict RAW you can see out of darkness, just not into it, although some DMs like to make magical darkness work differently and be opaque).

Once you get to level 12 I would consider multiclassing to wizard to get more spells for your wizard buddy to learn and also to give you more spells to use with Eldritch Strike, but going full EK 20 is also completely defensible.

Or did you have another subclass in mind, like Battlemaster? Cavalier might be worth considering too, in a party that's heavy on casters and light on tanks, but in either case you will need to find some way of getting magic weapons to remain relevant at higher levels, whereas EK has Magic Weapon built in at level 8 if you choose to take it.

[BestDmanNA]

Good rule variant BTW. I like it.



Yes, I think the extra Dex in the long run is absolutely worth the pain from levels 1-6, especially if since you get High Elf cantrips (Booming Blade) and some other elfy bonuses like advantage against Hypnotic Pattern/Dominate Person. I would go this route personally.



I don't recommend the Light cleric dip. Sounds like your party already has plenty of spellcasters. More concentration for the party is never a bad thing, but you can get that just by going Eldritch Knight and using your concentration on Expeditious Retreat or Magic Weapon or Darkness (for advantage on attacks--note that by strict RAW you can see out of darkness, just not into it, although some DMs like to make magical darkness work differently and be opaque).

Once you get to level 12 I would consider multiclassing to wizard to get more spells for your wizard buddy to learn and also to give you more spells to use with Eldritch Strike, but going full EK 20 is also completely defensible.

Or did you have another subclass in mind, like Battlemaster? Cavalier might be worth considering too, in a party that's heavy on casters and light on tanks, but in either case you will need to find some way of getting magic weapons to remain relevant at higher levels, whereas EK has Magic Weapon built in at level 8 if you choose to take it.

I had intended to go Battlemaster for the extra Accuracy/Damage/Utility. Thank you for the response. I appreciate it. My main concern with Elf is I don't see the benefit, partially until level 8 and, fully until level 12 with the extra dexterity. My main concern with human is darkvision missing, although the extra +1 Ac, Initiative, skill bonus, attack bonus, and damage would also be missed. Regardless, thanks!

[Galactkaktus]

Background:
Question[/B][/B]: Simply put, based on the above information, do you think the heavy delay on the feat combo etc. is worth having the Extra 2 Dexterity (+1 Dex mod) later on? This is a long-term campaign, if that is relevant. We are starting at level 2.


How often will you level up? Since as i see it the V.human will be better at level 2-7(Depending on the importance of darkvision)

[The Deej]

Darkvision can be relatively easy to obtain, as there is both an item and a spell that grant it. They even technically stack, if you get both. Lack of darkvision is not a huge weakness at all for human, imo. Also, is darkvision actually critical to have? The light cantrip is highly effective at providing vision in dark places out to 40' distances, and can be put on pretty much whatever, like your bow. The bigger questions that I would ask for a situation like this are:

1) How high level will this campaign go?

2) How frequent/infrequent will you level up?

3) How easy is it to obtain magic items?

If the answer to Q1 is not 'into the uppermost tiers', then human becomes the better choice, especially if Q3 is 'not too hard, even if it takes time'.

Q2 is mostly regarding how patient you are, which could also swing your preference in favor of human.

But if instead, Q1's answer is "all the way to max level" and Q3 is more "we're at the mercy of RNGeezus, or otherwise very hard", then Elf all the way. The extra +1's will count way more in lieu of magical assistance.

[Arelai]

If you level up almost every session, then go elf. If it takes 2-3 sessions or more to level each level-go human.

Level 6 at a level every 2 sessions is 12 sessions. Which will be at least 3 months. 3 sessions for a level puts you at 5 months. I’d rather come online a month sooner. Odds are the campaign doesn’t make it past level 5 anyway.....statistically speaking.

Also, use a hand crossbow so you can have the extra bonus action attack.

AND, if you get high enough level, 3 levels of Paladin gives you sacred weapon(devotion) so you can add your cha mod to your hit bonus. I’m not sure if there’s any other easily obtainable +to hit mods

[CTurbo]

Vhuman with 20 Dex at level 6 would be fine.


FYI, after Fighter 6, you could take Gloom Stalker 3 for darkvision and a super powered first turn. It's an EXCELLENT multiclass for an Archer fighter.

[MaxWilson]

Basically it comes down to "how future-oriented are you?" and "how much would it mess up your enjoyment to know that you're having strong now at the expense of your long-term fun?"

Both human and elvish are going to be plenty fun. Personally though I'm exactly the type of person AD&D wizards were suited for: I don't mind being weak up front if it makes me strong later on (if I survive to reach those higher levels). But being strong up front with no future would mess up my fun.

OP knows the tradeoffs and will have to pick according to their knowledge of their own preferences and personality.