Palabarian? Barpalarian? Barbadin?

[JellyPooga]

Paladin/Barbarian Multiclass.

Don't hear much about it. Merits? Drawbacks? Why is it not discussed too often?

I mean, it seems pretty decent to me. Auras + Rage make for a close support character that is tough enough to take a heck of a lot of punishment. Wolf Totem also adds to the close-support role. Smites aren't spells, so can be used during Rage.

Consider the following build; Ancients Paladin 7/Wolf Totem Barbarian 3

He's adding Cha to Saves within his Aura, has resistance to B/P/S as well as damage from spells, gives Advantage to allies attacks against adjacent foes, gets Smite damage plus Rage damage, isn't too MAD and has all the armor/weapon profieiencies he could want.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It's certainly an interesting build. I'd guess it doesn't get talked about because it's kind of a weird halfway house that's going to be outclassed in nova damage by paladin/sorcerers and paladin/warlocks, and probably lacks the long term staying power of a single-classed barbarian. Yet, unlike most 'compromise' builds, it can't deploy its full potential alone. At the very least, it needs a melee rogue alongside it, and probably a dedicated healer.

And it is kind of MAD.

[Angelalex242]

I think Bearbarian/Ancients is a better build. The idea here is to optimize for having as much defense from everything as humanly possible.

[JellyPooga]

I think Bearbarian/Ancients is a better build. The idea here is to optimize for having as much defense from everything as humanly possible.

Bear Totem paired with Ancients Paladin is largely redundant. After all, the majority of non B/P/S damage you'll take is from spells and Ancients grants Resistance to those anyway. Wolf, or even Eagle, Totems (just going by PHB) grant more options and better support.

[CTurbo]

Barb and Paladin make a nasty pair for enemies.

Barb and Devotion GWM would be great

I like the Wolf Barb and Ancients idea a lot

A Conquest Barb would especially be fun

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd consider Ancestral Guardian Barbarian to double down on the party-protection.

[Degwerks]

I'd consider Ancestral Guardian Barbarian to double down on the party-protection.

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking as well.

[Contrast]

One of the problems is that rage doesn't mesh with heavy armour. So you're looking to have a decent strength, dex, con and cha which is spreading yourself pretty thin. Plus paladins already come with decent sustain in terms of spellslots and lay on hands which is what rage gives.

There's definite synergy there in that paladins love crits though and barbarians with their advantage at will are crit machines.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned zealot - just for thematic reasons they fit perfectly though mechanically there's a bit of doubling up on the utility of radiant damage.

[Davrix]

One of the problems is that rage doesn't mesh with heavy armour. So you're looking to have a decent strength, dex, con and cha which is spreading yourself pretty thin. Plus paladins already come with decent sustain in terms of spellslots and lay on hands which is what rage gives.

There's definite synergy there in that paladins love crits though and barbarians with their advantage at will are crit machines.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned zealot - just for thematic reasons they fit perfectly though mechanically there's a bit of doubling up on the utility of radiant damage.

Tortle Barb paladin? :)

[MrStabby]

You would need a massive number of high stats to do well. Dex, Str, Con, Cha... You would probably need to make some sacrifices.

To me the main question is which class are you going to take extra attack in?

Rage and paladin smites are cool but if that is the desire then something like a couple of levels of Warlock to keep smiting is probably needed. This is particularly important if you are mainly barbarian.

My guess is paladin to 6 and barbarian 4 is going to be the start that shows a lot of promise.

[JellyPooga]

To address MADness;

Str is obviously wanting to be high. Prime.

Dex doesn't need to be any higher than 14 (Medium Armour).

Con wants to be high, but between Rage, Aura of Protection and Lay on Hands, HP aren't as much of a concern for you as, perhaps, other. Secondary.

Charisma wants to be as high as possible. Prime.

So just as a preliminary eyeballing;

Str: 15
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 12

Using Standard Array. Go Half-Elf for +2 Cha, +1 Str, +1 Con and you're looking at a very respectable level 1 set. Alternate raising Str and Cha as you level up and you're good.

Is it MAD? Yeah, a bit. Is it unplayably MAD? No.

[Foxhound438]

barbaladin, and I think the biggest upside is free advantage for landing crit smites. I might personally go 3 in champion to double down on crit fishing, but that's starting to be a lot of levels, but I feel like a pal 6/ barb 2/ fight 3 could stack up pretty nicely to other 11th level martial characters. probably either 2wf or use a polearm for even more attempts at crits. you'd have a 19% crit chance, so if you action surge on turn one you'd have a pretty good chance (~.65) of getting at least one crit that turn. Downside is that you don't have as much gas as you might want for smiting things.

[Sorlock Master]

It's very good, smiting isn't casting, so you can do so while raging. The ability to get advantage, or CHA bonus to attacks, negates the -5 from GWM. Advantage on DEX saves and CHA bonuses to all saves, plus rage means your super durable.

It's a really strong combo most people just don't run it, don't know why.

[PeteNutButter]

I love this MC a lot. I've been working on a really solid build for it for a while. I've drafted several, but haven't them much.

Variant human stats 16, 14, 14, 8, 9, 13 is fairly effective. Tortle frees MADness if you want to start with +2 cha. First level in Barb, Paladin to 6, then Barb to 4, then MC into a full caster that gives more goodies like swords bard for more smite slots. Conquest paladin could work well for the barb/lock trick of Armor of Agathys + rage. The trick is the higher level paladin spells aren't really worth it if you plan on spending the tough fights raging, better to MC and get more smite slots/utility.

Posted a similar build awhile ago:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523966-Complete-Front-Line-Leader-Knight-Support-Build

[JellyPooga]

I love this MC a lot. I've been working on a really solid build for it for a while. I've drafted several, but haven't them much.

Variant human stats 16, 14, 14, 8, 9, 13 is fairly effective. Tortle frees MADness if you want to start with +2 cha. First level in Barb, Paladin to 6, then Barb to 4, then MC into a full caster that gives more goodies like swords bard for more smite slots. Conquest paladin could work well for the barb/lock trick of Armor of Agathys + rage. The trick is the higher level paladin spells aren't really worth it if you plan on spending the tough fights raging, better to MC and get more smite slots/utility.

Posted a similar build awhile ago:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523966-Complete-Front-Line-Leader-Knight-Support-Build

Any particular reason for going Barbarian at 1st? With Wisdom not being a focal point, the Paladins proficiency in Wis Saves seems more constructive than the Barbarians Con (shoring up the "weakness", so to speak) and Str vs. Cha Saves is somewhat of a moot point (seeing as they both want to be high and have similar frequency). Con Save proficiency for maintaining concentration is moot as well, given you can't maintain concentration while Raging. Heavy Armour proficiency isn't an issue, due to Rage limitations, but it doesn't hurt to have it.

It depends on how soon you want all the toys to be online, but hammering out Paladin 7 (for the Oath feature) or even 8 (for the ASI) before grabbing your first level of Barbarian is a tempting, if not actively optimal, proposition.

I like the notion of rounding out the build with a full-caster Class. Bard, particularly, appeals for Expertise (and the potential to add superlative grappling to the repertoire) and further support and out-of-combat utility.

[PeteNutButter]

Any particular reason for going Barbarian at 1st? With Wisdom not being a focal point, the Paladins proficiency in Wis Saves seems more constructive than the Barbarians Con (shoring up the "weakness", so to speak) and Str vs. Cha Saves is somewhat of a moot point (seeing as they both want to be high and have similar frequency). Con Save proficiency for maintaining concentration is moot as well, given you can't maintain concentration while Raging. Heavy Armour proficiency isn't an issue, due to Rage limitations, but it doesn't hurt to have it.

It depends on how soon you want all the toys to be online, but hammering out Paladin 7 (for the Oath feature) or even 8 (for the ASI) before grabbing your first level of Barbarian is a tempting, if not actively optimal, proposition.

I like the notion of rounding out the build with a full-caster Class. Bard, particularly, appeals for Expertise (and the potential to add superlative grappling to the repertoire) and further support and out-of-combat utility.

Mostly just because I wanted to have the build online ASAP. Con saves are still pretty big for things like poison, paralyze, etc. I was also thinking that as it grew into later levels, there'd be more times where concentrating on a spell would be effective than raging.

[Snails]

It's a really strong combo most people just don't run it, don't know why.

Because of the MADness, it starts out of the gate slower than other choices with similar focus. Your own potency is much delayed until you get certain stacks. In the long run, I do think this is potentially a monster build with good team play: the combination of Wolf totem and Paly auras means that you can reliably carve into the enemy while shrugging off most AoEs.

[JellyPooga]

Because of the MADness, it starts out of the gate slower than other choices with similar focus. Your own potency is much delayed until you get certain stacks.

To address this; it's another reason why ignoring Barbarian until Paladin 7 is no bad thing; up until that point, you're no more MAD or delayed than any other Paladin (except those irritating Dex 8 ones who never act fast enough to do anything useful, can't shoot a bow to save their lives and are constantly clanging and clanking, giving away the parties position...grumble grumble, heavy armour, grumble). After that, you already qualify for Barbarian (Str 13) and you're not adding any MADness; you just downgrade an armour type to Medium, wind up the ol' Rage-o-meter and away you go.

[Ninja_Prawn]

you're no more MAD or delayed than any other Paladin

Well, but, the battlefield role you're trying to fill with this build kind of demands you max out Con, whereas typical paladins can do fine with a more 'middling' Con score. Plus you can't dump Dex as hard as other paladins, as you mentioned. So it feels a bit more MAD even if it technically isn't.

Furthermore I'd feel uncomfortable dumping Wis on a character like this, because it seems from a fluff perspective that they should be a fairly wise type of character. But maybe that's just me.

[Snails]

Well, moving to Medium armor with less than a Dex 12 is going to be pretty harsh for a frontliner, unless, as Ninja_Prawn suggests, you have a really good Con. It is MADish, even if it is hardly hopeless.

Not starting with Barbarian gives up that big first level HP boost and Con save prof. Those are not huge deals, but they are little dings that you will notice.

I think you can do pretty well with a team support focus, as a Wolf totem Barbarian for 3-4 levels, then moving to Paladin. You are a bit MADish here, as you will probably want a Cha 12 or Cha 14 from the get go.

Skimping in the Str department is not crazy -- just live with a Str 14 until the build mature at character level 9-10, and boost Str later.

[Willie the Duck]

Paladin/Barbarian Multiclass.
Don't hear much about it. Merits? Drawbacks? Why is it not discussed too often?


It's a really strong combo most people just don't run it, don't know why.

If I were to guess at an explanation, I would think that it might be:
it's a bit of the MAD issue (yes, you've shown that it can be done, but it's about as far along the MAD line as you'd ever want to be)
it is a 2x multi-attack classes build, and I just haven't seen as much love for those overall. Not sure if it is the single non-stacking benefit, or the whole 'which do you take to 5th?' issue, or simply that you kind of want to play the first 5 levels as one or the other, in which case you've dedicated a good portion of your character's career to playing either a barbarian with a high Cha or a Paladin with a high Dex, but little payoff.

[CharonsHelper]

...in which case you've dedicated a good portion of your character's career to playing either a barbarian with a high Cha or a Paladin with a high Dex, but little payoff.


Yes - it may be one of those builds which is fine if you start at a higher level, but very annoying to actually level up.

There are worse builds to level, but it'd be rather sub-par until it really comes online.

[JellyPooga]

Yes - it may be one of those builds which is fine if you start at a higher level, but very annoying to actually level up.

There are worse builds to level, but it'd be rather sub-par until it really comes online.

A Paladin with 14 Dex is hardly sub-par. Let's face it, Dex is hardly the most useless stat to have and Cha to Saves means you don't need as much Con or Wis to stay competetive.

[ciarannihill]

I have a villain/rival character in my campaign who is an Oathbreaker Paladin/Wolf Totem Barbarian/Fiend+Blade Pact Warlock multiclass based around raising undead minions then fighting alongside them on the front lines in a Rage. (Inspired by a post by Petenutbutter) He's pretty fun to work with, but he had to be a high level character to function properly -- unless you're doing an epic level oneshot I would avoid it, but for those who are interested: (Barbarian 4, Paladin 11, Warlock 5 w/ Eldritch Smite)


I think it depends on how invested in each class you go -- I think splashing Barbarian is probably the stronger of the two options because Rage scales slower over time than Smites do in terms of damage and it doesn't scale at all defensively, which means you really want the most effective 1-4 on a Barbarian you can get. So probably Totem or Zealot (I also like Zealot in terms of flavor personally).

[Willie the Duck]

A Paladin with 14 Dex is hardly sub-par. Let's face it, Dex is hardly the most useless stat to have and Cha to Saves means you don't need as much Con or Wis to stay competetive.

It's hardly subpar, but presumably you've made some sacrifice to do it. Wis and Con being obvious (and again, if you actually have to play the levels up until level 6, +cha to saves at that point is going to feel like cold comfort if you die before you get there). Beyond that, I'm not convinced that this medium armor front-liner is going to feel that you don't need as much Con to stay competitive. They might well want to use a shield. And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with a shield-wielding barbarian (shield master being a great reason, although this build is pretty ASI starved), a lot of people have the opinion of 'sure, it's playable, but not what I signed up for.'

And I think that last bit (what-I-signed-up-for) is the primary issue. Taking the Ancients Paladin 7/Wolf Totem Barbarian 3 example, playing a paladin through 7.999... levels of xp gathering, finally rolling over to level 8 and realizing, "finally, finally, my build is coming to fruition!" And... it's just a martial build with some nice synergy. Sure, now that you are there you had better play it up! But will you make another such thing next game? Probably not.

And I think that's why I've seen only a few types of MC builds show up when you actually play through the levels --
1 level <something with armor>/ arcane spellcaster (if your groups playstyle does not protect the wizard in the back, you just acknowledge this is how you are going to have to make your wizards)
fighter-rogue (because there isn't an archetype or class that does quite this concept justice)
fighter1/warlock (pre-hexblade bladelock fix), and
sorcadin (because it just slides into place: go up to paladin 6 or 7, and then start taking sorcerer levels)

Other than that, I've seen very few MCs in play-from-level-one scenarios, specifically because it takes so long to actually get to play the build you are building around. And even if the pre-fruition build isn't objectively bad, you usually aren't really getting to play the concept you are shooting for.

All statements observational/subjective/just my 2 cents, etc.

[PeteNutButter]

It's hardly subpar, but presumably you've made some sacrifice to do it. Wis and Con being obvious (and again, if you actually have to play the levels up until level 6, +cha to saves at that point is going to feel like cold comfort if you die before you get there). Beyond that, I'm not convinced that this medium armor front-liner is going to feel that you don't need as much Con to stay competitive. They might well want to use a shield. And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with a shield-wielding barbarian (shield master being a great reason, although this build is pretty ASI starved), a lot of people have the opinion of 'sure, it's playable, but not what I signed up for.'

And I think that last bit (what-I-signed-up-for) is the primary issue. Taking the Ancients Paladin 7/Wolf Totem Barbarian 3 example, playing a paladin through 7.999... levels of xp gathering, finally rolling over to level 8 and realizing, "finally, finally, my build is coming to fruition!" And... it's just a martial build with some nice synergy. Sure, now that you are there you had better play it up! But will you make another such thing next game? Probably not.

And I think that's why I've seen only a few types of MC builds show up when you actually play through the levels --
1 level <something with armor>/ arcane spellcaster (if your groups playstyle does not protect the wizard in the back, you just acknowledge this is how you are going to have to make your wizards)
fighter-rogue (because there isn't an archetype or class that does quite this concept justice)
fighter1/warlock (pre-hexblade bladelock fix), and
sorcadin (because it just slides into place: go up to paladin 6 or 7, and then start taking sorcerer levels)

Other than that, I've seen very few MCs in play-from-level-one scenarios, specifically because it takes so long to actually get to play the build you are building around. And even if the pre-fruition build isn't objectively bad, you usually aren't really getting to play the concept you are shooting for.

All statements observational/subjective/just my 2 cents, etc.

This is why I proposed just starting barbarian 1 (ONE more HP! :smallbiggrin:).

Half elf takes care of the MADness as well, starting with 16, 14, 14, 8, 10, 14. Those are fine stats for both classes, and will serve you well. Suffer at level 5 for being one level behind on extra attack, but otherwise you can rage smite as soon as level 3, making you feel like the character you want to play as soon as level 2 (Barb 1/Paladin 1).

[Contrast]

This is why I proposed just starting barbarian 1 (ONE more HP! :smallbiggrin:).

Half elf takes care of the MADness as well, starting with 16, 14, 14, 8, 10, 14. Those are fine stats for both classes, and will serve you well. Suffer at level 5 for being one level behind on extra attack, but otherwise you can rage smite as soon as level 3, making you feel like the character you want to play as soon as level 2 (Barb 1/Paladin 1).

I mean sure but reckless attack at level 2 is where the juiciest synergy lies but delaying extra attack until level 7 is very unpalatable.

You'll be more damage resistant twice a day but there's a decent chance you could probably just heal that much damage from extra spell slots and lay on hands you'd get from going pure paladin...and you're getting hit more because your AC is worse than a paladin who just dumped dex and slapped on heavy armour. And thats before you even hit level 5 and have to wince while everyone else gets their goodies and you don't.

I'm not saying its unplayable, just why people might not actively try it out if they didn't already have a character concept in mind that requires it.

[PeteNutButter]

I mean sure but reckless attack at level 2 is where the juiciest synergy lies but delaying extra attack until level 7 is very unpalatable.

You'll be more damage resistant twice a day but there's a decent chance you could probably just heal that much damage from extra spell slots and lay on hands you'd get from going pure paladin...and you're getting hit more because your AC is worse than a paladin who just dumped dex and slapped on heavy armour. And thats before you even hit level 5 and have to wince while everyone else gets their goodies and you don't.

I'm not saying its unplayable, just why people might not actively try it out if they didn't already have a character concept in mind that requires it.

I actually played it in AL up to level 4. (I switched to another idea, because I am indecisive.)

I did a Tortle and it was lots of fun. At Barb 1/Paladin 3 the rage is a lot stronger than you give it credit. I outlasted the entire team on multiple occassions. Rage is really good. Rage + Dueling Style + S&B had me doing 1d8+7 on attacks without smites.

As for reckless attack... I agree it's an amazing feature, but I don't like to use it too much in tier one unless you are doing GWM cheese. It's just not worth getting hit by 5 more goblins just because you wanted to be sure you hit once. The math just isn't good in most situations. Advantage on one attack for all your foes to have advantage to hit you. If you're fighting just one enemy maybe, but anything else is trading lots of hits for a better chance at just a little damage. It feels much better after extra attack, and good pool of hp back it up.

I'm planning on making another one as a variant human but "cheating" a little bit by using a DM quest to get him a Belt of Hill Giant Strength. So stats will be 13(21), 14, 14, 8, 9, 16.

[Snails]

A Paladin with 14 Dex is hardly sub-par. Let's face it, Dex is hardly the most useless stat to have and Cha to Saves means you don't need as much Con or Wis to stay competetive.

I would humbly suggest that many people would say that Dex 14 Paladin is sub-par.

The Paladin class teeters on the edge of MADness, as is. It is not a problem because there are two trivially obvious escape routes: (1) tortle, (2) Dex build. Both these workarounds hurt the offensive punch of the Barbarian class abilities.

If I were to play this combo, I would be tempted to go for an efficient spread of base Human Str 16, Con 14, Dex 14, Cha 14, Wis 11, Int 10. Start with Barbarian for 1 level. Go Paladin for at least 5. Delaying the second attack 1 level is not too bad. Then either go for Wolf totem or Paladin auras in either order -- either pays off nicely for two levels, and you can decide how to compromise for the low hanging ASIs based on much the stats matter to you in play.

[GlenSmash!]

The stat distribution required to achieve this is easily doable even with standard array. even easier with point buy.

I'd start Paladin to 5. then if wanting to get in Raging smiting goodness I'd go Barb 2. Reckless attack would double my chances to crit. And crit smites are where it's at.

Then it's that hard choice, Paladin 6, or Barb 3. Either has nice goodies, and ultimately I'd want both.

After that my campaign has likely fallen apart.

[JellyPooga]

I would humbly suggest that many people would say that Dex 14 Paladin is sub-par.

I would retort that most anyone that wants to be on the front line wants Dex 12+ The "Dex 8 Heavy Armour" Paladin serves his purpose, but undeniably has his weaknesses; Initiative, Ranged combat, Stealth, not to mention a slew of spells that Dex affects ranging from straight damage to crippling status effects (which you definitely don't want to be suffering while on the front line).

After all, what's Dex 8 Pally spending those points on that he's saved by dumping Dex? Con? Cha? Assuming Con/Cha14 (which has been demonstrated is easily doable) points spent there have diminishing returns,
if not being completely pointless (e.g. Con 15 is functionally identical to Con 14 without a Racial bonus, or half-feat bumping it). Wis? Pally has Wis Save proficiency; redundant specialisation combined with Cha to Saves. Int? Minor benefits, certainly a Paladins dump stat.

[Antarx]

Please, chose a Dwarf, so you can be a Beardbarbadin. With Viking background, bear totem and choosing Balder as your god. So you can be a BearBeardBarbadin of Balder.

Sorry, I just failed my wisdow checks today...

[Kane0]

Bearded Barbearadin of Balder.

This is my next character.

[MaxWilson]

Bear Totem paired with Ancients Paladin is largely redundant. After all, the majority of non B/P/S damage you'll take is from spells and Ancients grants Resistance to those anyway. Wolf, or even Eagle, Totems (just going by PHB) grant more options and better support.

This claim seems dubious to me. The MM, Volo's and especially Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes are chuck full of enemies which inflict poison, necrotic, fire, psychic, or other types of damage on a hit, but only a few monsters rely on damaging spells, in part because damaging spells in 5E are typically weaker than regular attacks.

I agree that the pairing of Ancients and Bear is redundant though. Bear + Devotion might be a better idea, to eliminate many mental threats. (You could make a case for Ancients + Berserker too.)

The big downside I see to Paladin + Barbarian is that it's very MAD. You need Str 13 Con 13 Cha 13 minimum to even meet the multiclassing requirements, and if you want a decent AC you're looking at Str 13 Dex 14 Con 13 Cha 13.

[JellyPooga]

This claim seems dubious to me. The MM, Volo's and especially Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes are chuck full of enemies which inflict poison, necrotic, fire, psychic, or other types of damage on a hit, but only a few monsters rely on damaging spells, in part because damaging spells in 5E are typically weaker than regular attacks.

It depends on the type of campaigns you play and the GMs who run them, I guess. Most games I've been in, or indeed run, have used "monsters" (dragons and golems and giants, oh my!) as the few and far between with the majority of encounters being humanoids, often with spellcasting support. All those critters dealing non-spell, non-B/P/S are the kinds that I, at least, use as focal points; guardians of a great treasure or entrance, the BBEGs pet, or as an unusual or memorable encounter; that sort of thing. Spellcasters, on the other hand, are just a natural consequence of higher level play.

[nmitchell890]

It's certainly viable and thematic. I mean, Paladin (Oath of Ancients) 8/Barbarian (Path of the Ancestral Guardian) 4 makes a lot of sense and is extremely tough, I'd take Sentinel and would be tempted by Shield Master. I would run it in Adventure League (only needs PHB + Xanathar's).

[Willie the Duck]

I would retort that most anyone that wants to be on the front line wants Dex 12+ The "Dex 8 Heavy Armour" Paladin serves his purpose, but undeniably has his weaknesses; Initiative, Ranged combat, Stealth, not to mention a slew of spells that Dex affects ranging from straight damage to crippling status effects (which you definitely don't want to be suffering while on the front line).

I think we're coming up to a vaguely straw opponent who thinks Dex 8 front-liners don't have flaws. There's a fair bit of distance from that and what Snails was arguing. I think everyone wants as high a Dex as they can get. However, to build a character that has a competent Str, a front-line surviving Con, some level of Cha (or else what's the point of playing a paladin), and a Dex of 14 early on enough in the character's career to feel that they actually get to play their build (as early as level 2, if we follow PeteNutButter's idea of barb1/pal1) is not going to be consequence-free, and I'm pretty sure that was the point being made. All builds have opportunity costs, and one of this build's is that it is fairly far on the MAD direction, within the framework of 'still plausible' (compared to, say, a wizard-monk-bard build, or the like).

[JellyPooga]

I think we're coming up to a vaguely straw opponent who thinks Dex 8 front-liners don't have flaws. There's a fair bit of distance from that and what Snails was arguing. I think everyone wants as high a Dex as they can get. However, to build a character that has a competent Str, a front-line surviving Con, some level of Cha (or else what's the point of playing a paladin), and a Dex of 14 early on enough in the character's career to feel that they actually get to play their build (as early as level 2, if we follow PeteNutButter's idea of barb1/pal1) is not going to be consequence-free, and I'm pretty sure that was the point being made. All builds have opportunity costs, and one of this build's is that it is fairly far on the MAD direction, within the framework of 'still plausible' (compared to, say, a wizard-monk-bard build, or the like).

Fair point, gladly taken. I won't deny that the build is fairly restricted on where it can put its Ability Scores; Int and Wis are never going to be high without magical assistance, for sure and it's not going to have a heap of Feats either, if it wants to make the most out of its features.

That said, there's something to be said for leaving Str/Dex/Con at 16/14/14 for pretty much its entire career, pumping only Cha with ASI's. Between its various Class features, it really only needs Cha to remain competetive; multiple Resistances and Lay on Hands make high stats and HP relatively lower key.