Disinterested Player

[Kesnit]

PEOPLE INVOLVED
Me
Sylvia - My wife
Nathaniel - Jennifer fiance.
Jennifer - The "disinterested player"
Jac - Nathaniel and Jennifer's friend/roommate/live-in nanny.
Cynthia - Nathaniel's business partner

BACKGROUND
Sylvia and I have known the others for almost 2 years. We started off in a LARP N ran that was held at Cynthia's house. At that time, Nathaniel, Jennifer, and Jac (along with Nathaniel and Jennifer's now 3-year old son) lived 5 hours away from me, Sylvia, and Cynthia. Since then, Sylvia and I moved about 30 minutes away from them. After Nathaniel found a great workshop site (Nathaniel and Cynthia are professional crafters), Cynthia moved down as well.

We play at Nathaniel, Jennifer, and Jac's house ("E House"). Since Nathaniel and Cynthia are often out of town for shows on weekends during the spring, summer, and fall, we run multiple games. When Nathaniel is around, Jac runs a Pathfinder game. When he is out of town, we've cycled through a few different games. (I started a Changling the Lost game and a 5E game, but both only lasted 2 sessions. S ran a 3.5 adaptation of World's Largest Dungeon. S just started a Scion game.)


It can be crazy, with them fixing dinner, and dealing with the little one. (The kid is rather well behaved. Put him in his chair with cartoons and he is entertained for hours.) We are friends outside of game, so sometimes we get sidetracked talking about various things other than game. But when we actually sit down to game, we want to game. Or at least, most of us do... I am really not sure about Jennifer.

She builds characters she likes, and is involved in that process. She likes being at the table and having the story presented. But when it gets down to actually playing, she gets absorbed in playing on her phone. For example...

In the Scion game, Jennifer built "The Face." (I actually tweeked my character a little to remove much of the social stuff so she could have that role.) When we were given our first mission, Jac and I came up with a few ideas, one of which put Jennifer's character (and her very high socials) in a starring role. Jennifer, on the other hand, was on her phone and not involved in the planning. (Initial planning took up that game sessions, so we have not put anything into action yet.) Sylvia and I talked later, and are of the opinion that Jac and I will have to do much of the planning (even though Jennifer wants to be the party leader), and then just tell Jennifer what her character needs to do.

Last night in the Pathfinder game, Sylvia almost lost it with Jennifer. I will start by saying Sylvia and I were later getting to E House than normal because we had gone to an event about 2 hours away and didn't get back as early as we had planned. There was chatting about various things and dinner to be eaten (Sylvia and I had had a late lunch and planned to get dinner after game). All of this together, we started playing around 7. Since the last game ended with Cynthia and Jennifer's characters meeting the rest of us, there was some soft RP while everyone got acquainted. The first combat was about 8, which is also munchkin's bedtime. Jennifer went to put munchkin to bed, but then rather than come back to the table, stood in the doorway talking to Cynthia's husband, who had arrived about 7. (He's also a gamer, but is not in any of the games yet because he is still in the process of moving, so only comes down once a month.) When she did come back, we had to recap everything that had happened. After she took her turn, she pulled out her phone until her turn came around. Again, we had to recap everything that had been done since her last turn, since she was not paying attention. Combat ended before she took her third turn.

The party moved on, and Jac set up the next encounter. By this point, Sylvia and I are getting hungry (it was about 9:30). But since we were late getting started (partially through our fault), we didn't want to cut the evening short by leaving. Plus, the next encounter sounded like it would be really cool. (It was.) We RP-ed until we got to the point where combat was going to happen. Jennifer spent this time on her phone.

Combat starts. Jennifer is near the top of initiative, and knows she wants to cast Summon Nature's Ally. However, since she is playing a Druid variant that is dinosaur focused, she didn't know what she could summon at any spell level and needed to look it up. She told us to go on and let her look it up, then she would take her turn. We got through the rest of the round, and she still didn't know what she was doing. By this point, it's about 11:15. Cynthia's husband recommended recording where we were and stopping for the night.

Sylvia and I are getting really frustrated with Jennifer. It's clear she wants to be involved, but when it comes to being engaged in the game, she isn't. We don't want to quit gaming because Jac, Nathaniel, and Cynthia are good players. However, Jennifer seems to want to be the center of attention, but does not pay attention enough to really be the center of attention. This happens in every game, regardless of the system. Sylvia is close to confronting Jennifer and calling her out, but we don't think that would go over well with Jennifer.

Any ideas?

[Skevvix]

I would start with JS, pull them aside and ask if they have noticed the same thing, and if they have any idea what would be the best way to resolve this. Talk with the rest of your party and see how everyone else feels about the situation too.
The talk with JD doesn't have to be confrontational, let her know you've noticed she's disinterested and are wondering if there is something that can be done to make her want to engage more. Talking openly and honestly is pretty much always going to be the best way to resolve an issue.

[Palanan]

I find this very difficult to follow with the various letters standing in for names. Maybe replace them with their character classes, just as a convenient label?

As for the issues themselves, I'm wondering about the use of the phone at the gaming table. I try to discourage this as much as possible, and I've had to talk to one of my players about being distracted by videogames during gameplay. In your situation, is the phone sort of a gateway drug to broader distraction?

I'm especially alert to this issue because I've seen the endpoint--a gaming table where everyone is looking at their own laptop, tablet or phone, and the entire game dissolves into long afternoons of frittering distraction. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the case at your table, but I wonder if keeping her off the phone would help her remain more engaged.

.

[Darth Ultron]

The letters are all confusion. For future reference, just use names. If you ''must'' hide the names, make Bob=Tony and Sue=Betty.

JD sounds more like a casual player....so if you are not a casual player, that will always bring out problems. At any one time you will want to play the game....and she will want to do anything else. She is thinking the game is casual, like a board game...it's just a silly fun thing to do for a couple minutes.

Sure, anything you say might make her mad....but you only have the other choice of just not doing anything. You could try and be nice and let her know about things. Maybe she will get so mad she will quit.

Or maybe you can make her a bit more of a guest star, not a regular character. She does not want to sit down for hours and immerse herself in the game...ok, fine, then don't have her do that. You might even be able to get her to pick something she would really love to do or be.

Example: Once upon a time was Brittany, Joe's wife a non gamer who HAD to be within five feet of Joe at all times. She hated the idea of playing, but still wanted to do something. So, after talking with her about it....I made her a pegataur (half woman/half winged horse) 'guest star', Aurora. The character was 'trapped' somewhere, and could only gate in for a couple rounds(whenever Brit sat down and the table and said so...). The character was a warlock, with easy abilities (blast, light, and such) each all written out for her. She had no problem grabbing the dice and doing a blast for x damage or such. She often listened to the game, while on her phone, and when Aurora popped in she would always have an option or something to say(often to her husbands character). Before long I gave her notes with game related stuff on them...and she would add that in sometimes.....and it was hilarious as she was clueless about the game and would say things so, so, so wrong. Like I'd write 'drow elf' on the card in a little story...but she would just say 'elf'...so when the players go and meet the 'elf' they get a shock.

This would also let her take care of the kid.

[Kesnit]

I find this very difficult to follow with the various letters standing in for names. Maybe replace them with their character classes, just as a convenient label?

Classes wouldn't work, as we play in Pathfinder and Scion. However, I did go back and replace initials with names.


As for the issues themselves, I'm wondering about the use of the phone at the gaming table. I try to discourage this as much as possible, and I've had to talk to one of my players about being distracted by videogames during gameplay. In your situation, is the phone sort of a gateway drug to broader distraction?

I use a tablet, as I have characters notes in a Word file saved to the cloud. (One spell book I made for a Warlock/Cleric is 42 pages long, so I can't really print it out. Even for shorter references, it's easier to keep track of if all I have to do is scroll up and down, rather than juggle pieces of paper.) If we tell Jennifer she can't use her phone, her answer will likely be to point out my tablet use. Jennifer says she has ADD (which is possible), and needs to have something to keep her mind busy. I would be more likely to believe her if I didn't know Sylvia has ADD, so brings her crocheting to the table (with pattern) and manages to multi-task without losing focus on either game or her crafting.


Jennifer sounds more like a casual player....so if you are not a casual player, that will always bring out problems. At any one time you will want to play the game....and she will want to do anything else. She is thinking the game is casual, like a board game...it's just a silly fun thing to do for a couple minutes.

We hadn't thought of it that way. You are right, Jennifer is more casual than the rest of us.


Sure, anything you say might make her mad....but you only have the other choice of just not doing anything. You could try and be nice and let her know about things.

I'm not sure how to be nice about this situation.


Maybe she will get so mad she will quit.

She can't quit. We play at her house.


Or maybe you can make her a bit more of a guest star, not a regular character. She does not want to sit down for hours and immerse herself in the game...ok, fine, then don't have her do that. You might even be able to get her to pick something she would really love to do or be.

As I said in the OP, she wants to be the center of attention. In the Scion game, she decided she wanted to be a professional Indian bellydancer. (When we randomly picked our divine parent, she got one from the Hindu pantheon.) She built her character herself, and stacked her socials. Jac (who built a stage magician) ended up being the sidekick to Jennifer's dancer.

But even when we let her be the center of attention, she doesn't pay attention. The first plan we came up with for our Scion mission focused on using Jennifer's skills to distract everyone so I could destroy the artifact. Jac and I discussed how to make this work, but Jennifer played her game.


This would also let her take care of the kid.

The kid isn't a huge issue. We usually have to take a break around 8 so Jennifer and Jac can put him to bed. However, most of the time, the kid is good to just watch TV.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Kesnit
If we tell Jennifer she can't use her phone, her answer will likely be to point out my tablet use.

Difference being, your tablet use is directly related to the gaming, whereas her phone isn’t.

That said, given that this is at her house, asking her not to use the phone becomes much more complicated.


Originally Posted by Kesnit
Jennifer says she has ADD (which is possible), and needs to have something to keep her mind busy.

If this is really the case, then she can easily be set to work taking notes as the party’s chronicler, or tracking gear and gold as party accountant, or working on maps as party cartographer.

I have a strong sense she would resist doing any of these tasks, or more likely would do them poorly. I think Darth U. is right, and that she’s approaching this like a board game, just something to sit around and chat over.

She seems to have little bursts of interest that subside quickly. Maybe try to set her some sort of in-game puzzle, something she would have to work at for a while?

[Crake]

Institute a "no tech at the table" policy. It'll promote people knowing their characters better if they can't just reference the SRD for absolutely everything (for things like summons, people should print out reference sheets, and if you have a 42 page spell sheet reference for your cleric, maybe ask yourself how much of that you're REALLY using?), and thus also speed up gameplay, as well as removing distractions from the table, no more "oh look what so-and-so posted on facebook/twitter/the group chat". If people use digital character sheets, print out paper ones and fill them out, if people use digital dice, bring physical ones. Having nothing but pencils/paper/dice/game mat at the table will help bring back a focus to the game, rather than the myriad of distractions we're constantly being presented with in this digital age.

[jdizzlean]

As for the issues themselves, I'm wondering about the use of the phone at the gaming table. I try to discourage this as much as possible, and I've had to talk to one of my players about being distracted by videogames during gameplay.

.


some of this is just a maturity issue as well. maybe she's only playing because the hubby is, but isn't as invested in it as the rest of you.

i'd mimic what everyone else is saying however, maybe start by having that conversation with her.

unless you're doing things game related, stay off the phone, it's just common courtesy.

[MrSandman]

I second that you should talk to her, but don't just tell her to stop using her phone or to pay more attention to the game. Be genuinely interested in her experience. You could start saying something like, "Hey, it seems to me that you're not having a good time with the game, is something wrong?"

Once in our group we had a similar problem (though it was before smartphones existed). There was this guy who, as the game went on, would grow less and less participative, to the point of just hiding during combat. So the game master talked with him and asked him, "Look, I've observed that as the game progresses you seem to be having less of a good time, what's the matter?" Turned out that the guy enjoyed playing role-playing games for a while, but got tired after an hour or so. So we worked out something together and agreed that he'd be there for an hour or so and then leave.

Again, I would not tackle this from the idea that she is playing the game wrong and should be playing it well, but from the idea that she doesn't seem to be having a good time with the game.

[Quertus]

There's a lot of good stuff in this thread, whether or not it applies in your situation. Casual games, gaming exhaustion, ADD/multitasking skills.

The best thing you can do is, educate yourself, then keep an open mind while talking to Jennifer. She may or may not understand the issue herself.

Your goal should be to try to find some way to work together to improve the game. Ask her what her ideal game would look like (her at the center of attention? Doing what?).

She needs to multitask? Fine, but... what would it take to get her to pay enough attention to actually know what was going on in the game?

Or, how does she purpose to be the center of attention (perhaps worded as "be a main character"?) while not knowing what's going on?


. Maybe try to set her some sort of in-game puzzle, something she would have to work at for a while?

Yes. This kind of lateral thinking may help. Vary the content of the game. Do puzzles keep her attention? Vivid decisions? Making her describe "stunts"?

Take a few days off to play other games, like board games or Magic the Gathering or something. Try and understand when she is the most (and least!) focused.

[HalfQuart]

The character was 'trapped' somewhere, and could only gate in for a couple rounds(whenever Brit sat down and the table and said so...).


This is hilarious and a very interesting adaption to allow her to play without being too disruptive.

[King of Nowhere]

I've seen similar issues with some of my players, and I just let them be if everything else is fine. THe thing is, some people are not as invested as others. some won't be interested in the small details, and will get distracted when not their turn. it's ok, especially if you're all friends and get along anyway. she likes to play with her low involvment, and she does not make problems for others. Half my group is like that, and I talked to them, and they all say that they enjoy the game and they are happy like that. the other half of the party know that they have to wake the others up at the end of a long narrating sequence. we're all fine enough with it that we keep on like that.

[EldritchWeaver]

My opinion on Jennifer's "multitasking": If you can't keep up with what is going on in the game, then this is a single-task focus. Also it is disrespectful to other players, if you claim a niche ingame and then basically abandon it.

[Quertus]

I've been debating whether or not to say this, but... the "needing to be brought up to speed" may be intentional. I've recognized two types of players that I've gamed with for whom this was intentional:

The deva - they need to be the center of attention, and having the whole party wait on them, bringing them up to speed just feeds their ego.

Low Self-esteem - am I really part of this group? Do they really care whether or not I'm here? This type of player needs to periodically test to make sure that the group actually cares about their existence.

I don't know if Jennifer fits either of those molds, or if her "multitasking" is just "poor" (from your PoV) resource distribution (the resource in question being "attention").

I'd recommend going in with the assumption of "casual gamer" (or no assumption, if you are able to clear your mind of all biases), but being informed enough that, if that label doesn't fit, you can adapt your opinion to match the facts more readily.