What non-ritual spells *should* be ritual?

[Tetrasodium]

the other day someone had a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563542-What-would-break-if-all-spells-were-rituals) going about if all spells were ritual. While that idea is so obviously problematic in so many ways as was pointed out in the thread, it does bring to light the fact that ritual spells are dramatically skewed towards low level ones & the selection of ritual spells is too limited causing class balance problems.
There are zero ritual spells of level 7+,
3 sixth level rituals: drawmij's instant summons, Forbiddance, Instant Summons oops... make that two plus a duplicate
5 fifth level rituals: commune, commune with nature, contact other plane, rary's telepathic bond, telepathic bond oops... make that 4 plus a duplicate.
1 single fourth level rituals: divination
7 third level rituals: feign death, leomund's tiny hut, meld into stone, phantom steed, tiny hut, water breathing, water walk... oops, make that six plusa duplicate
8 second level rituals: animal messenger, augury, beast sense, gentle repose, locate animals or plants, magic mouth, silence, skywrite
13 first level rituals: alarm, ceremony, comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison & disease, find familiar, floating disk, identify, illusory script, purify food & drink, speak with animals, tensers floating disk, unseen servant... I guess make that 12 plus a duplicate too



Assume for the purposes of this thread that more spells should be rituals that are currently not rituals. What non-ritual spells should exist in ritual form & should the ritual form be the same level/component as the original?... if not what should it be?



JellyPooga: Knock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23222626&postcount=178) with a loud knock audible fropm 300 feet away, this 2nd level transmutation spell is hardly going to replace the value of a lockpicker in the party
DanyBallon & DaveOTN 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23223183&postcount=4) 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23223183&postcount=5)Teleport & the other party teleport type spells, perhaps as a greater ritual or something that takes more than +10 minutes, is extremely obvious (loud/flashy/etc), and/or takes more than 1 caster.
Erst suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23223464&postcount=6) disguise self. He mentioned it not being one as likely to avoid a bit of wizards can do everything you can do & more, but in all honesty I think that charisma & scorlockadins jumped that shark far enough back that there is no reason for it not to be ritual.
Laserlight suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23223111&postcount=3) detect evil & good on account of detect magic poison & disease already being rituals. Spending 10 minutes to discover that there is an aberration,
celestial, elemental, fey, fiend, or undead within 30 feet without getting attacked is going to pretty much be a niche thing yea, but the spell isn't exactly a daily prepper type either
OvisCaedo suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23223514&postcount=7) that sending should be added.
Newbie suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23227059&postcount=8) Locate Object, Nystul's Magic Aura & continual flame
Sirlordnergal suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23227965&postcount=10) "All Divination spells should be rituals, with the exception of Foresight, Truesight, and Mind Spike. Other then that, I see no reason why spells like Scrying or Find The Path aren't ritual spell. Instead you have to spend a 6th level spell slot to maaaybe watch someone or find the shortest path to a place." with the ovbious stipulation that a divination wizard should not get back spell slots from ritually casting a divination spell.
no brains suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23228648&postcount=11) create food & water along with possibly goodberry
Talionis suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23231506&postcount=13) clone
bc56 suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23231730&postcount=14) All of the things that create fortresses or defenses.

Druid Grove,Guards and Wards, Temple of the Gods, Mighty Fortress, Hallow, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, Find Steed, Find Greater Steed, Create Homunculus, Long-duration ilMirage Arcane, Fabricate, Tongues, & some already suggested spells
Skybluedemon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23231791&postcount=16) & probably others suggested transport via plants.
B0nes suggested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23235361&postcount=18) Arcane lock, Darkvision, Zone of Truth, Dispel Magic, Glyph of Warding, Leomund's Secret Chest, Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, Dream, Project Image, Control Weather, Astral Projection

[JellyPooga]

I always thought Knock should be a ritual. Considering the awful noise it makes and that it'd take 10 minutes to cast, it would hardly make the Rogue and his lock-picks redundant and it feels like the sort of spell that should be a ritual.

[Laserlight]

Det Magic is a ritual, but why not Det Evil?
And as I recall, Locate Object is another candidate.

[DanyBallon]

for spells above 6th level, I'd say that most spells related to transportation, divination, or conjuration of extradimensionnal space are good candidate for the ritual tag, but I'd change it for a "greater ritual" which is longer that adding 10min to the casting time, and might need more than one spellcaster to perform.

[DaveOTN]

I think you could get away with Teleport being a ritual. There's a big power difference between "Let's all spend an hour chanting and then we can skip the travel scene," and "Crap, the bad guys brought reinforcements - Wizard, get us out of here NOW!" Maybe make a note that it's a LOUD ritual, likely to attract attention, so you don't have groups teleporting home every tine they take a short rest.

[Erst]

Disguise self.

From my experience, it fits into a category of utility spells that one cannot really justify preparing on a regular basis, but happen to be very useful when you do need them. And when you do need them, generally, you’re not strapped for time. Or something that would be helpful to not spend a spell slot on.


I suspect that it may be to prevent the “Wizards can do everything you can, and better” situation, Versus, say, proficiency in disguise kits.

[OvisCaedo]

Sending has always kind of seemed to me like it could have stood to be a ritual... and that sending stones as a magic item could really stand to be less crazy limited, aside.

[newbie]

I would second locate object.

and add Nystul's Magic Aura to the list. Even as a ritual it is so situational that it may never see use.

Continual Flame is a good candidate too. There are a lot of ways to create light cheaper than 50gp and a 2nd level spell slot. Its hard to imagine how this would be abused as a ritual.

[Isaire]

I would second locate object.

and add Nystul's Magic Aura to the list. Even as a ritual it is so situational that it may never see use.

Continual Flame is a good candidate too. There are a lot of ways to create light cheaper than 50gp and a 2nd level spell slot. Its hard to imagine how this would be abused as a ritual.

My cleric villains would have the most badass looking lairs :P

[sithlordnergal]

All Divination spells should be rituals, with the exception of Foresight, Truesight, and Mind Spike. Other then that, I see no reason why spells like Scrying or Find The Path aren't ritual spell. Instead you have to spend a 6th level spell slot to maaaybe watch someone or find the shortest path to a place.

The only reason I can think of for those spells not being rituals is because the Divination Wizard could potentially abuse their ability to regain higher level spell slots by casting divination spells...but I can't think of many DMs that would let you regain a spell slot for casting a ritual spell

[No brains]

Not a true suggestion, but it would be interesting to see a setting or even adventure specific damage ritual. Something like magic mortars that can bombard heavy fortifications and create a trench warfare atmosphere.

I would suggest Create Food and Water and possibly the infamous Goodberry could work as rituals because Purify Food and Drink basically does the same effect with any material that one could chew. There's an important distinction between "I can not eat this" and "I can not eat this without fear of getting sick from poison or disease".

[Tetrasodium]

Not a true suggestion, but it would be interesting to see a setting or even adventure specific damage ritual. Something like magic mortars that can bombard heavy fortifications and create a trench warfare atmosphere.

They have never really described them or given an example of one, but that is pretty much what a siege staff is... a telephone pole sized wand/rod/staff operated by a crew of low level mages with spectacular results

[Talionis]

Clone. It already takes for ever to cast and requires a laboratory to cast.

The spell itself really doesnt affect combat that much. It really is a reset button for a character. Its really primarially cast in downtime.

Its currently only on the Wizard spell list... i wish it were on the Warlock spell list. Seems like it should be on the Warlock spell list and this change would at least allow it for the Tomelock.

[bc56]

All of the things that create fortresses or defenses.

Druid Grove,
Guards and Wards
Temple of the Gods
Mighty Fortress
Hallow
Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion


Summoning spells similar to Find Familiar

Find Steed
Find Greater Steed
Create Homunculus


Long-duration illusion and creation effects

Mirage Arcane
Fabricate


Communication spells similar to Comprehend Languages and Speak With Animals

Speak with plants
Tongues



I would caution against making Find Traps a ritual, because it would put the rogue out of a job.

[Fuzzy Logic]

I would caution against making Find Traps a ritual, because it would put the rogue out of a job.

Making it a ritual might make it useful enough that it would see play past that first initial mistaken cast.

I still remember the look on our cleric's face when she cast find traps, was told "there are no traps within 60 feet of you" and then got told to mark off one of her 2nd level spell slots.

[Slybluedemon]

I say Transport via Plants would be a good ritual.

It has requirements anyway so it not being a ritual is weird.


All of the things that create fortresses or defenses.

Druid Grove,
Guards and Wards
Temple of the Gods
Mighty Fortress
Hallow
Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion

Summoning spells similar to Find Familiar

Find Steed
Find Greater Steed
Create Homunculus


Long-duration illusion and creation effects

Mirage Arcane
Fabricate


Communication spells similar to Comprehend Languages and Speak With Animals

Speak with plants
Tongues



I would caution against making Find Traps a ritual, because it would put the rogue out of a job.

I agree, most of these spells would be even more amazing if you didn't have to waste a spell slot on them.

[B0nes]

A few spells I think should be rituals that haven't been mentioned:

Arcane lock
Darkvision
Zone of Truth
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Leomund's Secret Chest
Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum
Dream
Project Image
Control Weather
Astral Projection

[xroads]

I would suggest Create Food and Water and possibly the infamous Goodberry could work as rituals because Purify Food and Drink basically does the same effect with any material that one could chew. There's an important distinction between "I can not eat this" and "I can not eat this without fear of getting sick from poison or disease".

Create Food & Water
Stories about famine would be difficult to tell since there would be even less reason for temples not to spam the spell for their congregation during rough times. I mean it would cost them nothing at that point (except for a 10 minutes worth of effort per casting). But aside from that, I think it would be a good candidate for a ritual.

Goodberry
This would be abused. For example, druids in a game I run already dump their remaining spells at the end of the day into Goodberries. That way players always have access to a bushel of healing berries. I could only imagine what would happen if the druids could spam the spell as a ritual.


Druid: Hey guys, tell you what. You take my shift and I'll spam the Goodberry for two to three hours.
Fighter: Sounds like a plan.

[Willie the Duck]

Assume for the purposes of this thread that more spells should be rituals that are currently not rituals. What non-ritual spells should exist in ritual form & should the ritual form be the same level/component as the original?... if not what should it be?

Sometimes it is the outsiders who have the most insight. I answered my (non-gamer) wife's 'so what's up on your forming?' question while reading this thread, and went into an explanation about ritual spells and the Ritual Caster feat. I explained it as, "so, if no one wants to play a wizard, someone can take Ritual Caster (Wizard) and get the minimal utility stuff that wizards do, but without being able to create fireballs or the like." Her question of, "so, which class's minimal utility stuff isn't available?" kinda made it obvious: The cleric condition removal spells like Lesser Restoration, Remove Curse, maybe even Greater Restoration and Raise Dead.

[Segev]

While I am all for this topic, I will point out that there is one other reason to not make things ritual spells: to keep them unique to a class. Yes, Lore Bard can filch class-exclusive spells, but that's the only way to steal spells that aren't first level or rituals in the game, and takes at least 6 levels of investment. (10 for non-Lore Bards.)

So, for example, if clone is meant to be Wizard-only, that would be a good reason for it to be non-Ritual. The requirement that you be a wizard who can cast 7th level spells is a restriction in and of itself, even if the spell slot use is fairly obviously a non-factor for a spell you'll cast once during downtime.

More obviously, find steed can't be acquired with Magic Initiate because Paladins aren't on the list of classes that can be touched by that feat, and find greater steed would be too high level anyway. Both are, like find familiar, possessed of "ritual-like" traits: long casting times, long, long durations, and effects that extend beyond "being a spell" for the most part. But they're exclusive to the Paladin (and, again, the Bard, if he chooses them as his Magic Secrets). If they were ritual spells, anybody with a feat, and approximately 1/4 of Warlocks (there will always be some who go Tomelock and don't pick up Book of Secrets for some strage reason) would have them.

So, especially for spells that appear only on one class's list, consider that the lack of a (ritual) tag might indicate intent to make it a unique feature of the class.

[Peelee]

Making it a ritual might make it useful enough that it would see play past that first initial mistaken cast.

I still remember the look on our cleric's face when she cast find traps, was told "there are no traps within 60 feet of you" and then got told to mark off one of her 2nd level spell slots.

...what did she expect? No whammy if there are no traps around?

[newbie]

While I am all for this topic, I will point out that there is one other reason to not make things ritual spells: to keep them unique to a class. Yes, Lore Bard can filch class-exclusive spells, but that's the only way to steal spells that aren't first level or rituals in the game, and takes at least 6 levels of investment. (10 for non-Lore Bards.)

So, for example, if clone is meant to be Wizard-only, that would be a good reason for it to be non-Ritual. The requirement that you be a wizard who can cast 7th level spells is a restriction in and of itself, even if the spell slot use is fairly obviously a non-factor for a spell you'll cast once during downtime.

More obviously, find steed can't be acquired with Magic Initiate because Paladins aren't on the list of classes that can be touched by that feat, and find greater steed would be too high level anyway. Both are, like find familiar, possessed of "ritual-like" traits: long casting times, long, long durations, and effects that extend beyond "being a spell" for the most part. But they're exclusive to the Paladin (and, again, the Bard, if he chooses them as his Magic Secrets). If they were ritual spells, anybody with a feat, and approximately 1/4 of Warlocks (there will always be some who go Tomelock and don't pick up Book of Secrets for some strage reason) would have them.

So, especially for spells that appear only on one class's list, consider that the lack of a (ritual) tag might indicate intent to make it a unique feature of the class.

This brings up a very good point! But it still would take the investment of a feat, and the character would need the appropriate level to obtain these ritual spells.

I would hope making more ritual spells would bring more utility spells into use. I was disappointed Xanathars didnt add more ritual spells.

[Segev]

Having said my bit on class exclusivity, I now find the Create Homonculus spell in Xanathar’s Guide. This one is not a ritual, and exclusive to the wizard spell list. Yet, in prior editions, anybody could have a homonculus if they contributed the blood to its making.

Is there a reason this spell should be wizard-only, or would making it a ritual be reasonable? This would primarily open it up to Ritual Caster (wizard) feat-takers, and Tomelocks.

[Unoriginal]

Having said my bit on class exclusivity, I now find the Create Homonculus spell in Xanathar’s Guide. This one is not a ritual, and exclusive to the wizard spell list. Yet, in prior editions, anybody could have a homonculus if they contributed the blood to its making.

Is there a reason this spell should be wizard-only, or would making it a ritual be reasonable? This would primarily open it up to Ritual Caster (wizard) feat-takers, and Tomelocks.

It's wizard only because thematically speaking, they decided to specifically associate the homonculus with wizards.