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PhoenixPhyre
2018-07-15, 07:34 PM
As the title suggests--I'll be relying on summoning a decent amount.

Without any boosts to summons (as a level 6 Spirit Guide Life Oracle), what options from the SM I, II, or III (I can switch out a spell to get SM III) are worth it? Which are absolutely not (other than the obvious "don't summon a dolphin on land" ones)? Note that I'm neutral but would like to avoid too much evil.

Party has
* beatstick brawler
* hunter with dino pet
* witch
* swashbuckler
* myself

Psyren
2018-07-15, 08:10 PM
Saph's Summoner Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?184592-3-P-The-Summoner-s-Handbook-A-Guide-to-the-Pathfinder-Summoner) is a bit dated but has some notable options at each rung. For SM2 it calls out elementals for their special abilities (e.g. an Earth Elemental makes a decent scout underground) and celestial wolves for tripping. Having said that though, summons below max level are very seldom useful, especially if you're not devoting build resources to buffing them.

PhoenixPhyre
2018-07-15, 08:13 PM
Saph's Summoner Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?184592-3-P-The-Summoner-s-Handbook-A-Guide-to-the-Pathfinder-Summoner) is a bit dated but has some notable options at each rung. For SM2 it calls out elementals for their special abilities (e.g. an Earth Elemental makes a decent scout underground) and celestial wolves for tripping. Having said that though, summons below max level are very seldom useful, especially if you're not devoting build resources to buffing them.

So basically, if I want combat fodder I need to use SM3? I'm not willing to deal with the hassle of doing specialty summons for utility (since I only have limited bestiary access and no desire to make a hassle of things). Wolves for tripping sounds useful, since we have a couple good melee who can use help that way.

Psyren
2018-07-15, 09:25 PM
If you want combat fodder you usually need to use your highest level ones, is what I'm saying. Remember, even at max level summons are usually a couple of points behind the CR of whatever you're fighting, and that's especially true if you have no feats or abilities passively buffing them.

If your goal is to go for quantity rather than effectiveness though and clog up the battlefield, the effectiveness of that strategy will depend on whatever it is you're fighting.

Eldariel
2018-07-16, 12:21 AM
Well, mostly SMI and SMII are utility and meatshield. And if you use summoning a lot, at least Augment Summoning would be well-advised. That said, Celestial Eagle out of SMI is great - great enough that it's better than most SMII options far as combat is concerned (just summon a congregation of Eagles instead of most of those things). Smite is very good in PF and it has 3 attacks to make use of it. Small Earth Elemental is the best beatstick out of SMII (Lightning Elemental is great vs. people wearing metal), though the other elementals have miscellaneous useful abilities that you might be in the market for (Air for Whirlwind, Water for Vortex, Magma for Magma Puddle). Mud and Ice are otherwise fairly anemic but have good carrier effects on their attacks and Aether Elemental is mostly there as a ranged option with all sorts of cool utility. Lemure is nice for beef with the damage reduction and such it has but far as attacks go it's very anemic.

SMIII is where the money's at though. Summons take a big leap in power from SMII to SMIII. SMIII has a number of great options, including but not limited to Lantern Archon (touch attacks, aid at-will, all the good stuff!), Dretch (Stinking Cloud!), Leopard (Claw/Claw/Bite/Rake charge routine with smite), Boa (for grapple), etc. This document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16dZ5SBQMS1Yi6531tXOkKE_rmXEwn4VFacOEQKiHA5E/edit?pli=1#) is a pretty solid analysis of the PF Summons.