Best Non-melee cleric builds

[Warrnan]

So I’ve been struggling with building a cleric for quite a while. Usually I like to build them into something that makes actual paladins cry.

However this time I was wanting a cleric who focused on spells and/or archery, in a mostly humanoid campaign based in the historical crusades era.

Any favorite non smashy cleric builds you can recommend for around level 7? I just need help getting some specific inspirations because cleric is such a massive class I’m drowning in options.

Thanks for your help fellow playgrounders!

[TheBrassDuke]

Cloistered Cleric / Church Inquisitor / Shadow Adept / ShadowCraft Mage (with appropriate feats) has, thus far (after enough research and testing) been my absolute favorite, and one of my best. And I was even able to add some melee to her, with a rapier and, later on, a silver bow! :D

So with C. Cleric, I’ve got a somewhat more knowledgeable, rather than “simply wise”, priestess with a knack for knowing and understanding things—makes her a good investigator too, as well as a judge for her god.

Church Inquisitor expands on the last part and makes her brilliant at eking out evil, lies and the absolute truth, and dishing out punishment to those who deserve it.

Shadow Adept is her dip into the more (super)natural forces at her disposal, making her a champion of power and authority, while possessing various nuances to her character and background.

ShadowCraft Mage transcends her into a form of living divinity at this point, where she can manipulate the forces to get truth and absolution.

...but idk, it’s just some rambling.

I’d go Cleric 3/ C.Inquisitor 3/ Shadow Adept 1 for a level seven...maybe ask if you can slightly rebuild?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by TheBrassDuke
Cloistered Cleric / Church Inquisitor / Shadow Adept / ShadowCraft Mage (with appropriate feats) has, thus far (after enough research and testing) been my absolute favorite, and one of my best.

Was this Eleisa? It sounds like it could be her.

[Warrnan]

Cloistered Cleric / Church Inquisitor / Shadow Adept / ShadowCraft Mage (with appropriate feats) has, thus far (after enough research and testing) been my absolute favorite, and one of my best. And I was even able to add some melee to her, with a rapier and, later on, a silver bow! :D

So with C. Cleric, I’ve got a somewhat more knowledgeable, rather than “simply wise”, priestess with a knack for knowing and understanding things—makes her a good investigator too, as well as a judge for her god.

Church Inquisitor expands on the last part and makes her brilliant at eking out evil, lies and the absolute truth, and dishing out punishment to those who deserve it.

Shadow Adept is her dip into the more (super)natural forces at her disposal, making her a champion of power and authority, while possessing various nuances to her character and background.

ShadowCraft Mage transcends her into a form of living divinity at this point, where she can manipulate the forces to get truth and absolution.

...but idk, it’s just some rambling.

I’d go Cleric 3/ C.Inquisitor 3/ Shadow Adept 1 for a level seven...maybe ask if you can slightly rebuild?

Very cool. I was already planning on a similar build up to level 4 including Church Inquisitor. Thanks for the ideas. I’m thinking a prophet, clothie priest similar to Warcraft Priests.

[Icarium]

Cloistered Cleric / Church Inquisitor / Shadow Adept / ShadowCraft Mage (with appropriate feats) has, thus far (after enough research and testing) been my absolute favorite, and one of my best. And I was even able to add some melee to her, with a rapier and, later on, a silver bow! :D

So with C. Cleric, I’ve got a somewhat more knowledgeable, rather than “simply wise”, priestess with a knack for knowing and understanding things—makes her a good investigator too, as well as a judge for her god.

Church Inquisitor expands on the last part and makes her brilliant at eking out evil, lies and the absolute truth, and dishing out punishment to those who deserve it.

Shadow Adept is her dip into the more (super)natural forces at her disposal, making her a champion of power and authority, while possessing various nuances to her character and background.

ShadowCraft Mage transcends her into a form of living divinity at this point, where she can manipulate the forces to get truth and absolution.

...but idk, it’s just some rambling.

I’d go Cleric 3/ C.Inquisitor 3/ Shadow Adept 1 for a level seven...maybe ask if you can slightly rebuild?

How do you resolve the alignment issues?

[liquidformat]

for an archer build elf cleric with elf domain is a great start. Will look more once I am back at books, if you want archery in general going with zen archery feat is a very good idea.

[TheBrassDuke]

Was this Eleisa? It sounds like it could be her.

It was, and I’m still so thankful to the Playground for helping me build that powerhouse! You should see the stories she’s in now!

(An attempt at mimicking the Vancian style of Sepulchrave)

“The trial has been delayed for about a week,” she said plainly, pouring them both a drink of heady wine. “The victim’s family has spared no expense; following the arrest, we were asked to conduct a mystical interrogation for use in court. So during the autopsy, the body will be prepared for scrutiny.”

“What does that entail, exactly?”

“There is a Zone of Truth in place, but I am not in the business of relying on faulty magic—even when granted by the Divine; too many innocent victims have met with the stake on account of deceptive spell-casting and flowery words.

“The dead woman had a loving family, and while they have little left to claim materialistically, they did manage to pool their resources together to afford a certain prayer: Speak with Dead.”

“Ah—and that is the ‘extra preparation’ you mentioned, then?”

“Exactly that. And while I’m typically against bodily desecration, we must at least have a significant portion of the victim’s physical form with which to use as a conduit—“

“Her head...”

“You are correct. However, this is why the case has been pushed ahead—we will not be dragging a severed head into court, everything laid bare; her flesh will be dissolved in a special solution. A simple skull should suffice.”

“But then how will you know it is really the victim’s skull?”

“I am to oversee the process myself, along with the prosecutor’s family, the defendant, and their retainers.”


Very cool. I was already planning on a similar build up to level 4 including Church Inquisitor. Thanks for the ideas. I’m thinking a prophet, clothie priest similar to Warcraft Priests.

My build is also good for an Oracle, of sorts, something like a prophet...I mean, Eleisa was a Saint before (due to circumstances) she fell from the grace of her Creator and into the dark embrace of the Mother of Night. And Saints (and their counterpart, dubbed by Red Fel, “Descendant”) are like the actual voice of their god, the seekers of truth and justice—good or bad—and are like divine creatures on earth. Two cents. :)

Edit:
How do you resolve the alignment issues?

To be honest, I work with my gut and my DM; as well, I find going Lawful Neutral in that situation is a necessity, if not LG or LE. This way there’s a grey zone paladins rarely tread, and where gods actually sit (in my opinion, as they are all fallible).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by TheBrassDuke
It was, and I’m still so thankful to the Playground for helping me build that powerhouse! You should see the stories she’s in now!

Did you ever finish writing up how the session ended when Eleisa surprised her former comrades? I remember reading to the point when she revealed herself, and there was a hostage situation inside the temple, and you ended it on a colossal cliffhanger. I really, really want to know how that turned out.

[TheBrassDuke]

I totally dropped the ball on that write up. It was pretty fun though. I’ll get my notes for ya.

[Mike Miller]

If Dragon mag variants are allowed, issue 311 has cool cleric classes. The Arcane Disciple and the Evangelist are interesting. The former gets an arcane spell every level and the latter gets bonus domains and casts spontaneously.

[Eldariel]

Well, "the best" is obviously Cleric+X 5/Dweomerkeeper X with Magical Training-entry. That class is just filthy in all the things it offers. Other interesting options include Divine Disciple, Contemplative, Divine Oracle, Divine Disciple, Seeker of the Misty Isles, etc. as domain grabs and Domain Spontaneity feat (plus the PHBII Spontaneous Domain Casting) to get a huge array of spontaneous spells at your disposal, and Divine Spell Power-empowered stuff. It all really depends on the kind of character you want; Cleric is the most versatile class in the game.

[TheBrassDuke]

But does the Magical Training trick work? Can you show me a build?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Personally i'm a big fan of the Runecaster. Inscribe Rune has the benefit over scrolls that they're very fast to make, so you can easily turn leftover spells into runes before resting and build up a nice stockpile. And that's before you get the ability to make runes with charges/day and free Maximize Spell.
You also only need 8 levels (the last two aren't worth it), so there's enough room to get some Church Inquisitor - mainly for the Inquisition domain to combine with Divine Defiance for a great dispeller/counterspeller - and Dweomerkeeper for that Supernatural Spell cheese.

My go-to build is Cl. Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Dweomerkeeper 4/Runecaster 8 with the rest filled with more Church Inquisitor and/or Dweomerkeeper to taste.


But does the Magical Training trick work? Can you show me a build?
It's not really a trick. Dweomerkeeper just needs the ability to cast both arcane and divine spells, with no level of casting specified. Magical Training lets you cast cantrips as a wizard or sorcerer, which are arcane spells.

[liquidformat]

I love looking at these optimized builds but I have rarely had a dm who would let me dip like that. For the most part the standard seems to be you can't hop into a new one until you gotten all the way through the first. Even then I have had plenty of DMs that will only allow 5 level or under prcs to be stacked. So I always try to look for PRCs like divine oracle and contemplative or radiant servant of Pelor that I am going to take all the way through.

[Eldariel]

But does the Magical Training trick work? Can you show me a build?

It isn't much of a trick, and it indeed does work. Dweomerkeeper requires the ability to cast arcane and divine spells, while Magical Training gives you the ability to "...cast three 0-level arcane spells per day as either a sorcerer or wizard...". As for a good build, well, simple Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10 is nice, simple and extremely efficient. You can add Cloistered Cleric instead Cleric and PRCs like Church Inquisitor or company before Cleric 5 but ultimately that doesn't make that big of a difference.

[TheBrassDuke]

It isn't much of a trick, and it indeed does work. Dweomerkeeper requires the ability to cast arcane and divine spells, while Magical Training gives you the ability to "...cast three 0-level arcane spells per day as either a sorcerer or wizard...". As for a good build, well, simple Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10 is nice, simple and extremely efficient. You can add Cloistered Cleric instead Cleric and PRCs like Church Inquisitor or company before Cleric 5 but ultimately that doesn't make that big of a difference.

This is the PrC that lets you make Wish a 1/day SLA if you so chose to, right?

[Palanan]

For that matter, there are two different versions of the Dweomerkeeper, aren’t there? A 3.0 version from Faiths and Pantheons, and a 3.5 version from Complete Divine.

So, which one do most people mean when they’re discussing it?

[Eldariel]

This is the PrC that lets you make Wish a 1/day SLA if you so chose to, right?

Supernatural Wish, actually, and 3/day. It's MUCH stronger than SLA.

For that matter, there are two different versions of the Dweomerkeeper, aren’t there? A 3.0 version from Faiths and Pantheons, and a 3.5 version from Complete Divine.

So, which one do most people mean when they’re discussing it?

The updated one as ever; 3.5 CDiv Web Enhancement.

[TheBrassDuke]

Supernatural Wish, actually, and 3/day. It's MUCH stronger than SLA.


The updated one as ever; 3.5 CDiv Web Enhancement.

Oooh...now if only I could slap that onto a straight sorcerer. For fluff reasons, mostly.

[Troacctid]

Thaumaturgist is another classic, with the advantage of being usable in core-only games. It offers some very nice minionmancy, allowing you to cast summoning spells as contingencies, so you can pop 'em for free with no action cost.

Sovereign Speaker is cool too. Get all the domains!


Oooh...now if only I could slap that onto a straight sorcerer. For fluff reasons, mostly.
You only need a 1-level dip into Cleric to qualify.

[TheBrassDuke]

Is there any way for a sorcerer to get in without a dip?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Is there any way for a sorcerer to get in without a dip?

Dweomerkeeper? The Domain Access ACF from CC and 10 levels of Rainbow Servant, though it'd obviously be very late.
Earliest possible is level 12 with early entry shenanigans at the cost of some feats, 16 otherwise.

[TheBrassDuke]

Dweomerkeeper? The Domain Access ACF from CC and 10 levels of Rainbow Servant, though it'd obviously be very late.
Earliest possible is level 12 with early entry shenanigans at the cost of some feats, 16 otherwise.

Oh, jeez. May just keep my Sor straight Sor/Ruathar/Sandshaper...idk.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Oh, jeez. May just keep my Sor straight Sor/Ruathar/Sandshaper...idk.

The problem is getting genuine divine spells without a dip.
Clerics have it easy with Magical Training, but afaik no equivalent feat for divine magic exists. Domain Access still has you cast the spells as normal for you (arcane).
Rainbow Servant is the only option i know of that lets an arcane caster cast divine spells, and it only gets that ability at level 10.

It doesn't help that Rainbow Servant is a terrible option for a Sorcerer since you still need to learn the spells like normal, so you aren't getting much out of it.
You'd honestly be better off with a cleric dip and prestige classes that are actually useful.

[TheBrassDuke]

The problem is getting genuine divine spells without a dip.
Clerics have it easy with Magical Training, but afaik no equivalent feat for divine magic exists. Domain Access still has you cast the spells as normal for you (arcane).
Rainbow Servant is the only option i know of that lets an arcane caster cast divine spells, and it only gets that ability at level 10.

It doesn't help that Rainbow Servant is a terrible option for a Sorcerer since you still need to learn the spells like normal, so you aren't getting much out of it.
You'd honestly be better off with a cleric dip and prestige classes that are actually useful.

Fluffwise, not entirely sure how that would make a decent Djinn Sorcerer archetype though, without that specific magicianry arcane spells express.

Edit: But then again neither does my build, it more makes him a Desert Magician—or Saint of the Sands if I add Exalted Arcanist to the build.

[Psyren]

Rather than a cleric itself, I would suggest Archivist as a "caster cleric," both due to its ability to poach from various other divine lists and domains, and its class features that can be used from range to supplement its spellcasting further - particularly Dread Secret as a multipurpose no-save-just-suck that can be fired from the back row.

[Eldariel]

The problem is getting genuine divine spells without a dip.
Clerics have it easy with Magical Training, but afaik no equivalent feat for divine magic exists. Domain Access still has you cast the spells as normal for you (arcane).
Rainbow Servant is the only option i know of that lets an arcane caster cast divine spells, and it only gets that ability at level 10.

It doesn't help that Rainbow Servant is a terrible option for a Sorcerer since you still need to learn the spells like normal, so you aren't getting much out of it.
You'd honestly be better off with a cleric dip and prestige classes that are actually useful.

Eh, Southern Magician/Alternative Source Spell ought to work just fine. At the very least the former.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Rather than a cleric itself, I would suggest Archivist as a "caster cleric," both due to its ability to poach from various other divine lists and domains, and its class features that can be used from range to supplement its spellcasting further - particularly Dread Secret as a multipurpose no-save-just-suck that can be fired from the back row.
Archivist doesn't grant domains though, so aside from losing those benefits you'll also have trouble qualifying for a lot of PrCs.
You'll also lose TU and DMM at least until you can get into Sacred Exorcist.

And the ability to poach of other lists is kinda overrated imo with things like Anyspell and Domain Draughts available.
It looks really good in theory, but in actual gameplay i've found it less valuable than what you give up compared to a cleric.


Eh, Southern Magician/Alternative Source Spell ought to work just fine. At the very least the former.
Alternative Source Spell requires that you can already cast both divine and arcane spells, so it's out.
Southern Magician works, assuming you're in FR and human or your DM waives the requirement.

[liquidformat]

Archivist doesn't grant domains though, so aside from losing those benefits you'll also have trouble qualifying for a lot of PrCs.
You'll also lose TU and DMM at least until you can get into Sacred Exorcist.

And the ability to poach of other lists is kinda overrated imo with things like Anyspell and Domain Draughts available.
It looks really good in theory, but in actual gameplay i've found it less valuable than what you give up compared to a cleric.
It is also worth noting that Archivists' spell choices are very much up to the whims of your dm, which makes dramatic power differences between standard cleric and archivists.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It is also worth noting that Archivists' spell choices are very much up to the whims of your dm, which makes dramatic power differences between standard cleric and archivists.

That too. Having your entire spell list known automatically is pretty awesome.
Another one worth noting is that clerics can also spontaneously cast Sanctified spells, some of which are quite good.

[Psyren]

Archivist doesn't grant domains though, so aside from losing those benefits you'll also have trouble qualifying for a lot of PrCs.
You'll also lose TU and DMM at least until you can get into Sacred Exorcist.

And the ability to poach of other lists is kinda overrated imo with things like Anyspell and Domain Draughts available.
It looks really good in theory, but in actual gameplay i've found it less valuable than what you give up compared to a cleric.

Oh I fully acknowledge that Cleric has a higher ceiling. DMM and the PrCs ensure that. But to me, sticking with the standard T1s just because they're the best at everything is boring.

[bean illus]

Well, "the best" is obviously Cleric+X 5/Dweomerkeeper X with Magical Training-entry. That class is just filthy in all the things it offers. Other interesting options include Divine Disciple, Contemplative, Divine Oracle, Divine Disciple, Seeker of the Misty Isles, etc. as domain grabs and Domain Spontaneity feat (plus the PHBII Spontaneous Domain Casting) to get a huge array of spontaneous spells at your disposal, and Divine Spell Power-empowered stuff. It all really depends on the kind of character you want; Cleric is the most versatile class in the game.

CC4/ChI2/SotMI1/SE1/DK2/Cont1/DK = 20th lvl caster.
Q0Whoops there's a level missing. probably for another domain?

Domains: Spell, Planning, Knowledge, Inquisition, Exorcism, Travel, Bonus.