[3.5] Athasian Human (free psionics) usefulness in introducing psionics to the game

[lylsyly]

From this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563881-Athasian-Human-From-Dr319) Thread:

Would the Athasian Human from Dark Sun Setting (Dragon Magazine 319, p. 26) be useful to introduce Psionics to players whom have always shied away from it? If you have an opinion please explain.

I haven't looked at the Psion/Wilder powers yet (we do not play psionics at all and I would like to introduce them) but what do you think some good class/power combos would be?

Theoretical at this point.

[Malroth]

If you're the DM, simply start a group in a new continent/planet/dimension/timeline where Vacnian casting is unknown and alternate magic systems like Psionics and Meldshaping are the Norm everybody learns the system together and they'll discover the cool options and combos on their own during character creation. If you want to introduce Something like this to an existing campaign, a friendly NPC or two who stick around for one mission are a good starting point, like a Psion (shaper) who hires the party to help rescue his Psionic Warrior cohort from a Mindflayer and it's cult.

[Mike Miller]

The best way for the group to learn a new system is to have everyone use it. Do a one-time Psionics game or a very short campaign where everyone uses a Psionics class. That way you can all make mistakes without it mattering long term. You'll also see different classes and begin understanding the powers. Many powers are like spells so it isn't completely new.

The Athasian human won't be much of an introduction, because it is so limited. Having an NPC that is a psionic class would be a minor showcase of Psionics. It would help the DM out more than the group.

[lylsyly]

Never said anything about an NPC. As a group we play 4 games a week. I would play one and find a good class/power combo and say "See. This is something you could do with psionics."

[Mike Miller]

Never said anything about an NPC. As a group we play 4 games a week. I would play one and find a good class/power combo and say "See. This is something you could do with psionics."

Well, I was just throwing that out there. Just trying to cover all the bases...

Anyway, Psionics are fun. I just started using them with my group. It was an easy transition. Make sure you have magic/psionics transparency and it will go smoothly.

[lylsyly]

I played with it a bit when I also played with another group. I just can't get my group interested. Was thinking maybe I could break the ice this way. I know that I can swing past one or two of them when they DM even If I can't get them interested in going full boat even as an experiment.

I suppose I could try it with an NPC "Oh neat, did you just see what he did?"

[Mike Miller]

I played with it a bit when I also played with another group. I just can't get my group interested. Was thinking maybe I could break the ice this way. I know that I can swing past one or two of them when they DM even If I can't get them interested in going full boat even as an experiment.

I suppose I could try it with an NPC "Oh neat, did you just see what he did?"

You can try, but if the real problem is that they aren't interested, you have a different problem. If they are shying away from it as you originally said, it sounds more like unfamiliarity / fear of the unknown. However, if they simply aren't interested then you need to overcome that. Showing them psionics and explaining psionics won't do much for those who don't care. Figure out what they like about magic (or whatever) and make comparisons to that. Find common ground that can grab their attention instead of trying to showcase it. It could just come off as a gimmick that is still not appealingif they have no vested interest in using psionics.

[Malimar]

It's not clear to me whether you're starting a new campaign or trying to add psionics to an existing one. If the latter: The problem with introducing psionics mid-campaign is that taking levels in a psionic class on an established character is generally suboptimal. Best case scenario is, like, you've got a 3rd level wizard who becomes willing to take 3 levels of psion and go into Cerebremancer.

This is very different from Tome of Battle, where slapping a ToB level on a mundane of any number of non-ToB levels is a boost in power, because non-ToB levels count as half towards your initiator level, and the levels of maneuvers you can know depend on initiator level, not class level.

If, on the other hand, you want to do a new campaign featuring psionics, just say "Hey, I want to do a psionics-heavy campaign, let's all roll up some psionic characters." Athasian Human doesn't look terrible for LA+1, though I'd have to know how the powers it gives you interact with actual psion levels to say whether it's good in a heavy-psionics campaign or if just another level of psion would be better.

[lylsyly]

Never mind.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I doubt it.

The Athasian human in #319 is built with 3.0 psionics in mind. It would necessarily have to be adjusted to fit properly with the 3.5 mechanics. That's likely to generate some confusion.

It has no listed ML for its inborn powers, they're at about half the level of level appropriate effects when you get them (less of an issue with psionics but not a non-issue), and the character gets a paltry sum of PP to fuel them.

It's a neat addition to an already psionic build (one the issues are worked out) but I really don't think it's good for introducing the mechanics either on its own (because of those issues) or as part of something bigger because of the potential confusion the adaptation could cause.

A better option, IMO, is just a straight-up elan psion. Be the psychic equivalent of a sorcerer and really show off the meat of the system. Just don't forget the main rule; you can't spend more PP than you have ML on basically anything.

EDIT: I am a derposaurus. Please disregard the struck out section.

[Crichton]

I doubt it.

The Athasian human in #319 is built with 3.0 psionics in mind. It would necessarily have to be adjusted to fit properly with the 3.5 mechanics. That's likely to generate some confusion.

It has no listed ML for its inborn powers, they're at about half the level of level appropriate effects when you get them (less of an issue with psionics but not a non-issue), and the character gets a paltry sum of PP to fuel them.

It's a neat addition to an already psionic build (one the issues are worked out) but I really don't think it's good for introducing the mechanics either on its own (because of those issues) or as part of something bigger because of the potential confusion the adaptation could cause.

A better option, IMO, is just a straight-up elan psion. Be the psychic equivalent of a sorcerer and really show off the meat of the system. Just don't forget the main rule; you can't spend more PP than you have ML on basically anything.


Not saying they don't have issues that need fixing, but they do have a listed ML=character level.

Also, they get 3 PP at 1st level, along with their power. That's more than your Elan Psion gets at 1st, and more than you get if you just add a power via Hidden Talent.

Sure, they don't get access to their additional powers and power points at the same rate as a full progression psionic manifester class, but I don't think this +1LA race is supposed to be equal to 20 whole levels of Psion, do you?

I'd say a 1,2,3,and 4th level power, 18 PP to use them and a full ML20 for scaling range, duration, and most importantly augmentation is not bad at all for just 1 LA. And that's before you factor in the +2 to TWO different abilities.

As for your assertion that it needs updated from 3.0, I can't find any language that would need updating... Examples?


Now, as for your comment that it's not the best way to introduce psionics to a campaign, that may be. I won't comment on that.

[lylsyly]

I should have been more specific in the OP. I am not looking to add it to psionic classes. I was asking about powers that would benefit non-psionic base classes. I was more buzzed than usual when I started the thread.

I would say that the Power Points, 4 powers, +2 to any two abilities, they are well worth LA+1. That makes the only trick finding powers that benefit whatever class(es) you are using. And Yes, as an introduction to the possibilities of psionics as well.

[Troacctid]

Phrenic template is pretty solid too IMO. PLAs have the advantage of auto-augmenting up to your ML.

[ATHATH]

Phrenic template is pretty solid too IMO. PLAs have the advantage of auto-augmenting up to your ML.
Eh, I'm not sure if introducing someone using PLAs is a good idea- they're less like psionics and more like SLAs and Vancian spells.

Also, this hasn't come up in the thread yet, but it bears repeating to any group new to psionics: Always remember the number one rule of psionics: You cannot spend more PP on a power (base cost+augments) than your ML (unless an ability EXPLICITLY tells you otherwise).

[Ramza00]

Maybe the best way to introduce psionics is magic items well in this case psionic items.

Give a psionic item that has a set number of power points / charges a day that the party members can use, and give them the freedom to use less charges per casting (more castings per day) or use the maximum amount of power points / charges up to the ML but you get less casting of the psonic power a day.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not saying they don't have issues that need fixing, but they do have a listed ML=character level.

Also, they get 3 PP at 1st level, along with their power. That's more than your Elan Psion gets at 1st, and more than you get if you just add a power via Hidden Talent.

Sure, they don't get access to their additional powers and power points at the same rate as a full progression psionic manifester class, but I don't think this +1LA race is supposed to be equal to 20 whole levels of Psion, do you?

I'd say a 1,2,3,and 4th level power, 18 PP to use them and a full ML20 for scaling range, duration, and most importantly augmentation is not bad at all for just 1 LA. And that's before you factor in the +2 to TWO different abilities.

As for your assertion that it needs updated from 3.0, I can't find any language that would need updating... Examples?


Now, as for your comment that it's not the best way to introduce psionics to a campaign, that may be. I won't comment on that.

Wow did I derp that post up. I was wrong on pretty much every count; the ML, it being 3.0, just everything.

This is what I get for making a post at 3AM when I barely slept the night before.

Please disregard my previous post entirely.