Melee Druid or Nature Cleric?

[Aleister VII]

So... I was thinking in making a Druid but most guides just highlight their wild shape and I wanna play a Shillelagh Druid or something that let me go into the melee without being a bear or at least deal decent damage.

But then again Nature cleric already has Druid stuffs plus their own clerical stuffs, should I rather make a nature cleric then or is a not wild shape abusing Druid viable?

[nickl_2000]

I know that you have talked about UA. Check out the Spore Druid unearthed arcana, that is the best way to go for a melee druid.

Shillelagh doesn't scale well after level 5 since it doesn't continuing increasing in damage. You would need to pick up Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade through a multi-class or magic initiate.

[Naanomi]

I prefer Nature Cleric for such a build... partially because I like Hill Dwarf Nature Clerics being able to function great in Melee while still rocking 8 (or less) Strength and Dexterity

[Aleister VII]

The first two features of circle of spores look very powerful but I think that I need at least an extra attack a bonus action attack like PAM to be competitive or maybe the blade cantrips, not quite sure...

I neither know how reliable is poison damage, I just know that fire is one of the most resisted ones x.x

[nickl_2000]

The first two features of circle of spores look very powerful but I think that I need at least an extra attack a bonus action attack like PAM to be competitive or maybe the blade cantrips, not quite sure...

I neither know how reliable is poison damage, I just know that fire is one of the most resisted ones x.x

Poison damage is the least reliable. Pretty much all undead and constructs are immune to it. Many beasts are as well. However, that can be overcome with a feat if necessary

[Beelzebubba]

So... I was thinking in making a Druid but most guides just highlight their wild shape and I wanna play a Shillelagh Druid or something that let me go into the melee without being a bear or at least deal decent damage.

But then again Nature cleric already has Druid stuffs plus their own clerical stuffs, should I rather make a nature cleric then or is a not wild shape abusing Druid viable?

If you want to go melee without Wild Shape, Nature Cleric is the better choice. Heavy armor + Shield makes you a lot tanker. Divine Strike at 8th level helps. Adding a feat to get Booming Blade or Pole Arm Master makes you a solid second-tier combatant.

[hymer]

Poison damage is the least reliable. Pretty much all undead and constructs are immune to it. Many beasts are as well. However, that can be overcome with a feat if necessary
What feat would that be?

[nickl_2000]

What feat would that be?

Apparently none. I was thinking Elemental Adept, but after looking it up apparently poison isn't covered in that feat. So, there isn't a way to overcome immunity/resistance to poison.

[Aleister VII]

So... looks like nature cleric has taken the upper hand and it requires less feats to be functional, just MI to get the blade cantrips, right?

[ImproperJustice]

Nature Cleric grants you nonsense like spirit guardians or spike stones and then using thorn whip to pull people back in, if you decide you want an alternative to Shillelagh Shenanigans.

Or Shillelagh and Spiritual Weapon up another Shillelagh for some fun times.

Melee Druids seem to work best with circle of the Moon and changing into big scary things.

[Naanomi]

So... looks like nature cleric has taken the upper hand and it requires less feats to be functional, just MI to get the blade cantrips, right?
Yes, though things like Warcaster and Sentinel and the like really help the combat style in later levels... not necessary, just good

[rbstr]

Primal Savagery exists as well. d10 acid melee cantrip, scales with level.

If you want to shillelagh you really need to take 5 levels in Ranger/Fighter/Monk or do Spore Druid.
It'd be neat to get an extra-attack druid circle someday.

[Naanomi]

If you want to shillelagh you really need to take 5 levels in Ranger/Fighter/Monk or do Spore Druid.
It'd be neat to get an extra-attack druid circle someday.
SCAG melee cantrips mean you don’t need extra attack all that much

[Aleister VII]

Yes, though things like Warcaster and Sentinel and the like really help the combat style in later levels... not necessary, just good

Mmm... now that you mention it warcaster is a must since I'll be using a shield.

[CursedRhubarb]

I had a Lizardfolk Grasslands Land Druid that turned out to be pretty good in melee and wound up being a second tank. Racial armor turned out to be quite nice with a decent Dex score and as Grasslands you get Haste added to your spells known. Was able to utilize Haste to get AC up to 21 and the extra action can be nifty for a second melee attack or to cast a spell and attack. Had 6 Int and 8 Cha but that made him fun.

[thrdeye]

I recommend Nature Cleric if you don't want to go Moon Druid. In addition to the benefits others have mentioned, you can use your Channel Divinity to charm animals and plants and Dampen Elements is an excellent defensive ability for you and your allies. Grab Shillelagh, then use Magic Initiate to get Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade and you're good to go.

[Brenoli]

So... I was thinking in making a Druid but most guides just highlight their wild shape and I wanna play a Shillelagh Druid or something that let me go into the melee without being a bear or at least deal decent damage.

But then again Nature cleric already has Druid stuffs plus their own clerical stuffs, should I rather make a nature cleric then or is a not wild shape abusing Druid viable?Hi Aleister, you may want to check out the build I intend to make. It think it ticks all your boxes: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563641-Should-I-replace-my-fire-sorcerer-for-spores-druid

Let me know what you think of it.

[Dr. Cliché]

Primal Savagery exists as well. d10 acid melee cantrip, scales with level.

I had a Moon Druid with mobility who'd often jump into melee, attack with this, and then dodge back out of reach.

[Aleister VII]

Hi Aleister, you may want to check out the build I intend to make. It think it ticks all your boxes: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563641-Should-I-replace-my-fire-sorcerer-for-spores-druid

Let me know what you think of it.

Hey yourself n.n I actually read your post, that's what inspire me to make a non-wild shape Druid but I stumble upon nature cleric and it's Druid like Wis build and here I'm xD

Your build seems solid, however I have to take mage armor with MI to keep a nice AC I would've like to pick find familiar instead but whatever x.x

[Brenoli]

Hey yourself n.n I actually read your post, that's what inspire me to make a non-wild shape Druid but I stumble upon nature cleric and it's Druid like Wis build and here I'm xD

Your build seems solid, however I have to take mage armor with MI to keep a nice AC I would've like to pick find familiar instead but whatever x.xI thought about mage armour as well, but note that at level 1 you can get studded leather which is just one below mage armor and later on you might get better armor if your DM approves. I mean, druids are proficient in medium, but may not wear metal, however, you can imagine medium armor from non metal parts (e.g. dragon scales or something). This would equal or surpass mage armor and let's you choose another nice 1st level spell (your familiar) from some spell list from MI. At least that's the route I will be taking.

[nickl_2000]

I thought about mage armour as well, but note that at level 1 you can get studded leather which is just one below mage armor and later on you might get better armor if your DM approves. I mean, druids are proficient in medium, but may not wear metal, however, you can imagine medium armor from non metal parts (e.g. dragon scales or something). This would equal or surpass mage armor and let's you choose another nice 1st level spell (your familiar) from some spell list from MI. At least that's the route I will be taking.

Spiked Armor from SCAG covers this quite well and doesn't require any special materials to be used.

Spiked armor is a rare type of medium armor made by dwarves. It consists of a leather coat and leggings covered with spikes that are usually made of metal.
Cost: 75 gp
AC: 14 + Dexterity modifier (max 2)
Stealth: Disadvantage
Weight: 45 lb

Note, usually made of metal. Making the spikes out of thorns would be an easy shift.

[Aleister VII]

That armor looks pretty good and making it non metallic seems easy enough :D

It has disvantage in stealth but this build Isn't mean to be an ambusher xD

BTW isn't weird that Druids don't naturally get find familiar?

[nickl_2000]

BTW isn't weird that Druids don't naturally get find familiar?

In my mind canon, no not at all. A familiar is traditionally associated with arcane magic, whereas Druids live in the divine magic realm. That being said, I always did find it odd that there wasn't some sort of animal companion for Druid. WotC wanted to make that a Ranger thing, so sure why not.

[Willie the Duck]

That armor looks pretty good and making it non metallic seems easy enough :D
It has disvantage in stealth but this build Isn't mean to be an ambusher xD
BTW isn't weird that Druids don't naturally get find familiar?

Like all things, it is as easy as your DM makes it.
Personally, I would have gone with nature cleric if thee goal was melee goodness. Even if both end up using shillelagh with SCAG cantrips, the nature druid gets Divine Strike, which approaches Halo of Spores in damage without using your reaction, and the cleric spell list supports melee better. Either way, glad you made a decision.

As to familiars-no. Familiars are, historically (folklorically?), the things of witches, which in early D&D were delegated to the wizard class. Warlocks (at least Chain warlocks, and Tome warlocks who pick up find familiar as a ritual spell) get them as well. So the classes that are supposed to get familiars, have them. Druids (some druids at least, the druid concept has a lot of breadth) ought to have wild animal friends, but I think that's supposed to happen through use of animal handling and nature skills and spells like speak with animal. Plus druids got an animal companion as a class feature in 3e... it didn't go well (mostly for people not playing the druid and feeling useful to the group).

[Aleister VII]

Actually both builds seems very solid but I'm leaning more towards Druid because of how gimmicky is to use full casters as front liners.

But even so I'll someday make a nature cleric with the Shillelagh build n.n

[Brenoli]

Like all things, it is as easy as your DM makes it.
Personally, I would have gone with nature cleric if thee goal was melee goodness. Even if both end up using shillelagh with SCAG cantrips, the nature druid gets Divine Strike, which approaches Halo of Spores in damage without using your reaction, and the cleric spell list supports melee better. Either way, glad you made a decision.

As to familiars-no. Familiars are, historically (folklorically?), the things of witches, which in early D&D were delegated to the wizard class. Warlocks (at least Chain warlocks, and Tome warlocks who pick up find familiar as a ritual spell) get them as well. So the classes that are supposed to get familiars, have them. Druids (some druids at least, the druid concept has a lot of breadth) ought to have wild animal friends, but I think that's supposed to happen through use of animal handling and nature skills and spells like speak with animal. Plus druids got an animal companion as a class feature in 3e... it didn't go well (mostly for people not playing the druid and feeling useful to the group).Are you referring to level 8 nature cleric where he gets 1d8 extra damage? If so, I'd say this doesn't come close to spore druid damage (provided not immune to poison that is). The spore druid does 1d6 on melee attack from level one and at level 6 he can deal an additional 12 spore damage as reaction. Perhaps you can elaborate?

[Vogie]

BTW isn't weird that Druids don't naturally get find familiar?

You can get a Faux-miliar in a very druid-y way using Animal Friendship, followed up by Beast Bond. That way a druid can get a local animal companion when they enter a new area, without stepping on the mechanical toes of arcane casters.

It can also attack, which is nice, and normally non-warlock familiars cannot do so

I see they are also available for Rangers, so technically even nonBM rangers can pull it off.

[Willie the Duck]

Are you referring to level 8 nature cleric where he gets 1d8 extra damage? If so, I'd say this doesn't come close to spore druid damage (provided not immune to poison that is). The spore druid does 1d6 on melee attack from level one and at level 6 he can deal an additional 12 spore damage as reaction. Perhaps you can elaborate?

Simple in concept, although it'll take a bit to explain.
It depends on whether you include expended resources in the calculation. Base-level Halo of Spores damage is relatively close to Divine Strike --HoS nets you 3 poison damage (the worst kind) at 2nd, 6 at 6th, 9 at 10th, and 12 at 14th; DS nets you 1D8 cold, fire, or lightning (determined at the time of strike) at 8th, 2d8 at 14th--clearly better for the druid but not seriously so (and when you factor in the nature cleric's higher AC, and SAD-induced opportunities, it becomes a pretty no-clear-winner scenario). Spore druid outshines the nature cleric by activating Symbiotic Entity, an expendable resource (short rest recharging, but still a significant concern). If you're including such resources, then you have to consider the cleric's as well. Cleric spells are long rest-recharging, but given that there's a 1st level one (bless) that can change the course of melee combat not just for the cleric, but multiple members of their party, then the point where the spore druid clearly overtakes the nature cleric (yes, at 14th level a wild shape expended for 1d6+24 clearly outperforms +2d8 and a bless or the like) in melee combat is also the levels where melee combat (as a mid-level combatant like either of these two) is usually not the most efficient use of your rounds.

[Aleister VII]

You can get a Faux-miliar in a very druid-y way using Animal Friendship, followed up by Beast Bond. That way a druid can get a local animal companion when they enter a new area, without stepping on the mechanical toes of arcane casters.

It can also attack, which is nice, and normally non-warlock familiars cannot do so

I see they are also available for Rangers, so technically even nonBM rangers can pull it off.

Now that's a good shenanigan to get information of a place that I just arrived if the animal has enough intelligence and the DM is cooperative enough.

The fact that it can attack is also good and there's also awaken to let it speak with the rest of the party xD

Edit: According to that Spore druid is superior in sheer damage potential but lacks bless, AC and has better damage type, however I must also point that it need warcaster as you're gonna to want a shield.

IMO if Circle of spores would run another damage type it'll be extremely powerful but it's still pretty solid, I think I'll ask my DM what kind of foes I can expect to face, if he tells me undeads or constructs then circle of spores is pointless.

[Vogie]

Now that's a good shenanigan to get information of a place that I just arrived if the animal has enough intelligence and the DM is cooperative enough.
The fact that it can attack is also good and there's also awaken to let it speak with the rest of the party xD


Intelligence is limited to 3 or less, so the dumber the better :smalltongue:

[Naanomi]

Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardian really push melee clerics over the edge

[Aleister VII]

Yeah but that's using resources that recharge in a long rest, if I know that I only got a big fight once per day then that's good but I'm more concerned for the at-will damage, and druids also has some tricks to control the battlefield in their spell list.

[Naanomi]

Yeah but that's using resources that recharge in a long rest, if I know that I only got a big fight once per day then that's good but I'm more concerned for the at-will damage, and druids also has some tricks to control the battlefield in their spell list.
At will your still rocking 20 AC, 1d8+wisdom+Booming Blade+Divine strike... ultimately 6d8+5+More if they move... potentially with no investment at all in Strength or Dexterity.

A Hilldwarf rocking this with 8/8/17/14/16/10 is pretty durable on the frontline and not shabby on the at will swing, with good stats for skill support as well

[Willie the Duck]

And since they are SAD, probably have a few more ASIs available to dedicate to things like war caster/resilient(con) (reducing the number/increasing the effectiveness of their spells) or sentinel (there's your battlefield control), or the like.

There are no right or wrong, of course.

[sithlordnergal]

I currently have a Melee Druid. I built them as a Druid/Fighter with Shillegah as their main form of attack. They are decently effective through Action Surge, Shillegah, and Thorn Whip, and will be even more effective once they get Extra attack.

Personally my build will have me going Land Druid X / Battlemaster Fighter 6 for the extra ASI, but honestly you can drop Fighter once you get Extra Attack.

And keep in mind for AC, there is no actual mechanical reason preventing a Druid from using metal armor. It has been stated by Sage Advice in the past that Druids don't use metal armor for the same reasons vegetarians don't eat meat. Your Druid does not need to adhere to that rule unless the DM house rules it.

And I am willing to bet you could spin a backstory for a Fighter/Druid that could explain away the use of metal armor if your DM needs some sort of explanation.

[Aleister VII]

At will your still rocking 20 AC, 1d8+wisdom+Booming Blade+Divine strike... ultimately 6d8+5+More if they move... potentially with no investment at all in Strength or Dexterity.


Does divine strike stack with BB and GFB? O.o

[sithlordnergal]

Does divine strike stack with BB and GFB? O.o

If Divine Strike goes off when making weapon attacks then yes, it does stack. Just like how a Paladin can smite with GFB or Booming Blade

[leogobsin]

Does divine strike stack with BB and GFB? O.o

Divine Strike says "when you hit a creature with a weapon attack", nothing about the Attack action, so yep it would work with Booming/Green-Flame.

[Naanomi]

Divine Strike says "when you hit a creature with a weapon attack", nothing about the Attack action, so yep it would work with Booming/Green-Flame.
Which is what makes the whole thing come together so smoothly... pretty continuous increases in at-will damage; and the two basic combat enhancing spells when you need them (a second and third level spell slot are not cripplingly expensive at mid/high levels either)

[Brenoli]

Simple in concept, although it'll take a bit to explain.
It depends on whether you include expended resources in the calculation. Base-level Halo of Spores damage is relatively close to Divine Strike --HoS nets you 3 poison damage (the worst kind) at 2nd, 6 at 6th, 9 at 10th, and 12 at 14th; DS nets you 1D8 cold, fire, or lightning (determined at the time of strike) at 8th, 2d8 at 14th--clearly better for the druid but not seriously so (and when you factor in the nature cleric's higher AC, and SAD-induced opportunities, it becomes a pretty no-clear-winner scenario). Spore druid outshines the nature cleric by activating Symbiotic Entity, an expendable resource (short rest recharging, but still a significant concern). If you're including such resources, then you have to consider the cleric's as well. Cleric spells are long rest-recharging, but given that there's a 1st level one (bless) that can change the course of melee combat not just for the cleric, but multiple members of their party, then the point where the spore druid clearly overtakes the nature cleric (yes, at 14th level a wild shape expended for 1d6+24 clearly outperforms +2d8 and a bless or the like) in melee combat is also the levels where melee combat (as a mid-level combatant like either of these two) is usually not the most efficient use of your rounds.I and I think topic starter did mean not including expended resources as in spell slots. Then I believe it does depend om DM whether this spore druid falls behind that nature cleric or pulls ahead. Note that in theory and not including magic items, the druid can wear armour that just one less when the half plate is made from non metal (or if you simply use metal which you can after all). If you include the 2 from dex, than that would be 17 AC instead of the 18 of full plate. Since in the build I suggested we have war caster, our druid can wear a shield and still perform full casting in melee combat. Then you should note that obviously we will mainly be in our spore form and that grants plus 3 per level HP, which add tankiness as well.

Regarding poison resistance; as said, depends on DM in sofar as he include poison resistent enemies, or whether he simply allows the poison damage to be (for example) necrotic damage (as is suggested a lot).

Now if we assume that the poison damage is not often resisted and/or we can use necrotic, then I think the spore druid massively out damages the cleric. Already at 8 a spore druid (in it's spore form) can deal 12 at will damage. This would on average require 2,7 1D8 rolls. But the spore druid also does an extra 1d6 poison damage which is already almost as much as the extra 1d8 the cleric gets at level 8. Then to make matter even better for the spore druid, at level 10 he can deal AOE spore damage for a whopping 18 damage per enemy hit. That would require 4 1D8 rolls on average. But again, it's AOE, so likely to often hit more then 1 enemy. I would say this massively out DPS a cleric. Also, this AOE cloud can be placed strategically as well, adding flavour.

So again, it depends a bit on DM, but getting near equal AC shouldn't be a problem and having a lenient DM regarding poison resistence isn't far fetched either I'd think. Mind you, I wouldn't mind accosional resistences to me damage. Adds plavour, though obviously you would not want that to be near permanent.

All in all I still think the spore druid is very solid. Can be a tanky melee character that can still fully cast hefty spells in the front line. And can shape shift as well.. :)

[Aleister VII]

I and I think topic starter did mean not including expended resources as in spell slots. Then I believe it does depend om DM whether this spore druid falls behind that nature cleric or pulls ahead. Note that in theory and not including magic items, the druid can wear armour that just one less when the half plate is made from non metal (or if you simply use metal which you can after all). If you include the 2 from dex, than that would be 17 AC instead of the 18 of full plate. Since in the build I suggested we have war caster, our druid can wear a shield and still perform full casting in melee combat. Then you should note that obviously we will mainly be in our spore form and that grants plus 3 per level HP, which add tankiness as well.

Regarding poison resistance; as said, depends on DM in sofar as he include poison resistent enemies, or whether he simply allows the poison damage to be (for example) necrotic damage (as is suggested a lot).

Now if we assume that the poison damage is not often resisted and/or we can use necrotic, then I think the spore druid massively out damages the cleric. Already at 8 a spore druid (in it's spore form) can deal 12 at will damage. This would on average require 2,7 1D8 rolls. But the spore druid also does an extra 1d6 poison damage which is already almost as much as the extra 1d8 the cleric gets at level 8. Then to make matter even better for the spore druid, at level 10 he can deal AOE spore damage for a whopping 18 damage per enemy hit. That would require 4 1D8 rolls on average. But again, it's AOE, so likely to often hit more then 1 enemy. I would say this massively out DPS a cleric. Also, this AOE cloud can be placed strategically as well, adding flavour.

So again, it depends a bit on DM, but getting near equal AC shouldn't be a problem and having a lenient DM regarding poison resistence isn't far fetched either I'd think. Mind you, I wouldn't mind accosional resistences to me damage. Adds plavour, though obviously you would not want that to be near permanent.

All in all I still think the spore druid is very solid. Can be a tanky melee character that can still fully cast hefty spells in the front line. And can shape shift as well.. :)

I haven't done the maths but this apparently is right and makes the spore Druid far better at low levels and equelish to the nature cleric at higher ones IMO.

And as already mentioned changing poison to necrotic would solution many issues, maybe you start with poison damage but it upgrades to necrotic at higher levels or when you enter into your spores Form I think that I can convince most reasonable DM to do add this.

Furthermore I can say that the spores has mutated and produce/are explosive/volatile and change it to fire damage, they drain the life of the living things (necrotic), they're charged with static (lighting), they're corrosive and melts what they touch (acid) or something else.

[Galactkaktus]

The one problem i find with Nature druid is that both shillagh and spiritual weapon are bonus actions which can make it abit clunky if you don't manage to pre cast it before combat. Just a minor thing.

[Willie the Duck]

I and I think topic starter did mean not including expended resources as in spell slots.

I do not know how you reconcile this with the rest of your post, where you assume that the druid is in spore form (short rest recharging resources are somehow not resources?). However, within the framework you are providing, your analysis seems accurate.

[Brenoli]

I do not know how you reconcile this with the rest of your post, where you assume that the druid is in spore form (short rest recharging resources are somehow not resources?). However, within the framework you are providing, your analysis seems accurate.I see I could have been more specific. I basically only meant spell slots and or one/few time uses per combat. I myself do not consider spore form part of it, cos it lasts for hours and doesn't eat up spell slots.

Sure open for interpretation, but that's how I meant it.

My reason for this is that our DM generally has long combats and no long rests in between, so spell slots are scarce. At least at lower levels. At level 3/4 my sorcerer quickly runs out of the cool spells. At a certain point I cast scorching ray missing 2 of the 3 bolts, dealing low/mediocre damage and burning 1 of the 2/3 level 2 spell slots. Sure, at later levels you have more spells and this might become less of an issue, but that takes a long time to get there. That's why I like spore druid. Lot's of melee damage and tankiness so that I feel I can safe spell slots for when the occasion calls for it. Now spore form can be activated from the start and then it easilly lasts entire combats and we do have some short rests in between and then they even reset. That's why I did not count them as burning resources.

[Aleister VII]

I feel the same way when it comes to burn spell slots, that's why I value at will damage So much.

[Citan]

So... I was thinking in making a Druid but most guides just highlight their wild shape and I wanna play a Shillelagh Druid or something that let me go into the melee without being a bear or at least deal decent damage.

But then again Nature cleric already has Druid stuffs plus their own clerical stuffs, should I rather make a nature cleric then or is a not wild shape abusing Druid viable?
Hi!
If you are open to multiclass, a Druid / Monk dual-class will reap you heaps of fun.
For a single-class, if you want to make a Shillelagh build, I guess it's either Nature Cleric or a very wise Eldricht Knight with Magic Initiate: Druid and appropriate background. ^^
Although technically a Fey Tome Warlock may approach the concept mechanically (some nature-related spells from Patron, Shillelagh from Pact).

[KeilFX]

I'm currently in a campaign where I'm running the previously mentioned UA Circle of Spores Druid. My char is a lvl2 Lizardfolk, and I decided I'd get around the lack of extra attack by dipping 5 levels into Monk (Way of the Open Hand). This doesn't grant you more Shillelagh attacks, so it's good if you have a naturally high Dex / Str stat.

"Martial arts" at monk lvl1 grants you a free bonus action attack that stacks with Symbiotic Entity. Flurry of blows tacks another attack ontop of that at the cost of 1 ki point. Then obviously monk lvl5 gets you extra attack *and Stunning Strike*, probably the coolest effect you can have for a multi-attacking beast.

My Lizardfolk is planning on dipping further into Ranger and Paladin, but straight Druid or Druid/Monk is pretty strong. I'm just a wildman!

Other options include the Fighter, but at that point you'd be better off just going Fighter X / Ranger 2-3 for Hunter's Mark and aproximately a billion attacks a turn.

The Spores Druid makes for an interesting way of suiting up a primary casting class for the frontlines, without suffering a lot in terms of what versatility your baseline Druid features can bring to the table. Temp HP is beautiful, and at-will reaction damage isn't nothing.

[Beelzebubba]

And keep in mind for AC, there is no actual mechanical reason preventing a Druid from using metal armor. It has been stated by Sage Advice in the past that Druids don't use metal armor for the same reasons vegetarians don't eat meat. Your Druid does not need to adhere to that rule unless the DM house rules it.

Haha, not this dishonest bull**** again.

Don't give verifiably wrong advice.

Jeremy C. himself reaffirms it every time this comes up: 'no metal armor' is an absolute taboo, is RAW, and it's the prerogative of the DM to house-rule it in if they want to.

--

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/10/would-a-druid-trained-in-armor-use-metal-armor/


Q: Would a mountain dwarf druid trained in dwarven armor use metal armor?
A: Druids of any race abide by the taboo against wearing metal armor. #DnD

Q: Druid Fighter multiclass still no metal armor?
A: The druid taboo against metal armor isn't erased by the multiclassing rules. #DnD


https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/27/druids-no-metal-rule/


Q: A friend of mine has trouble with Druids' no-metal rule. Are metal weapons exempt, or do they need, like, wooden scimitars?
A: See the PLAYER'S HANDBOOK. The no-metal rule applies to armor and shields, and druids are proficient with scimitars. #DnD

Q: What's the official stance on wooden/leather replacements for plate/scale/splint?
A: Your campaign, your rules.


http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016


If you feel strongly about your druid breaking the taboo and donning metal, talk to your DM. Each class has story elements mixed with its game features; the two types of design go hand-in-hand in D&D, and the story parts are stronger in some classes than in others. Druids and paladins have an especially strong dose of story in their design. If you want to depart from your class’s story, your DM has the final say on how far you can go and still be considered a member of the class.

[Naanomi]

Adventure League doesn’t allow Druids to wear metal armor, for what it matters. Several non-metal armors are available in adventures (magic and a few non-magic) to help ease that a bit

[Vogie]

Several non-metal armors are available in adventures (magic and a few non-magic) to help ease that a bit

And in your own campaign, you can also get around that using creative worldbuilding. Whether it be the old standard of "Ironwood" or "Dragonscale", or something new like Goliath Tortoise or Giant Limpet Shells, you can make non-metal plate armor available if the need arises

[sithlordnergal]

Adventure League doesn’t allow Druids to wear metal armor, for what it matters. Several non-metal armors are available in adventures (magic and a few non-magic) to help ease that a bit

I'm looking through all the AL rules...haven't found that one yet. Might I see it? Because once again, a bit of flavor text saying "they don't wear it" doesn't really see as a full on rule of "they can't wear it", like with the Monk. I mean, if a DM has an issue with it, I do have a backstory to justify it and hide armor as a back up, but I've yet to run into one who has an issue with it.

[Naanomi]

I'm looking through all the AL rules...haven't found that one yet. Might I see it? Because once again, a bit of flavor text saying "they don't wear it" doesn't really see as a full on rule of "they can't wear it", like with the Monk. I mean, if a DM has an issue with it, I do have a backstory to justify it and hide armor as a back up, but I've yet to run into one who has an issue with it.
I think there is an official response post for it, but I’ll admit it is more of an assumption based on the fact that almost all the module notes that have non-metal armor in them have AL GM notes saying ‘Druids can wear this armor’... a weird tag to have if the assumption isn’t the opposite

[Beelzebubba]

It's a hold-over from trying to keep the flavor of a class designed when spellcasters had strict mechanical armor prohibitions, in a game that doesn't have that strict mechanic any more.

It's instead a 'soft' limitation that requires a big investment to overcome - via feats, multiclassing, stuff like that - that penalizes the spellcasting of a full caster that tries to become an armored tank.

Druids are really stuck in a weird place. They cast Divine spells, and most other Divine casters can wear metal armor just fine. They are proficient in Medium armor, and Medium armor has metal and non-metal versions. So, the only way to preserve the original flavor/balance of the class, as weird and idiosyncratic and nonsensical as it has always been, was to make metal armor a taboo.

Still, I maintain the prohibition is there for game balance and they don't need metal armor at all.

Druids have significantly more offensive spellcasting capabilities than Clerics, but not quite as much as Wizards, so splitting the difference between a Wizard and Cleric in AC is appropriate.
Moon Druids are literal HP sponges, and don't need metal armor. The other Druids aren't front-line combatants and have plenty of tools for avoiding damage.
Any other circle of Druid with 16 Dex and 55 gold pieces can get within 3 AC of a dedicated front-line tank spending 2,000gp. That's significant when you factor in bounded accuracy.


IMO giving a Druid metal armor isn't outright game-breaking, but it is slightly overpowering, and I think it's telling how entitled and pissy the min/max Moon Druid army gets about not having it.

I think the real problem is - no offense intended, OP - the Nature Clerical domain itself. It's utterly redundant.