Ways to Replicate Subtle Spell or Awakened Mind

[Malkavia]

I have a character concept in mind that's a social manipulator/enchantress who's strong in social skills for when she's either out of magic or doesn't feel the situation warrants magic. Of all the abilities I've looked at across the classes, the two that seemed the most interesting to me are the sorcerer's metamagic subtle spell and the great old one warlock's awakened mind (the 30' telepathy that works across languages). I like the idea of her getting inside people's heads and talking to them with awakened mind and being able to cast spells like suggestion or phantasmal force completely undetected. To accomplish this, I'm thinking about GOO-lock 2 / Sorcerer 3 / X, with the X likely just being more sorcerer levels. However, I'm definitely a bit of an optimizer and refuse to purposefully weaken my character for what is essentially just fluff to me. If you disagree with optimization and think I should just go with whatever fits the concept best, I appreciate that that's how you would make your character, but that's not how I would like to make mine. So please don't waste anyone's time by trying to convince me otherwise.

The first problem I immediately run into is GOO-lock vs. hexblade for my warlock levels. I'm honestly mad that hexblade is so front loaded, but by going with hexblade I get medium armor, a shield, the ability to use martial weapons (though I probably won't bother), and hexblade's curse! If I go with GOO-lock, I just get a flavorful ability to play with. I do, however, really like the idea of telepathy for the concept, so I'm wondering if there's a way to replicate awakened mind or do something similar without a large investment

Next, I'm worried I'm going to regret multiclassing as a caster and lose spell progression. Being able to quicking eldritch blast does somewhat alleviates this by giving me a very potent at-will ability to slow the drain of spell slots, but I'm still uncertain here. I'd prefer to be able to go full warlock or full sorcerer if possible.

So, I'm asking you guys if you know of ways to either replicate one or both of those abilities, or even other ways to accomplish the character concept. I only have access to the PHB and Xanathar's and you can assume the character starts at lvl 5 and will run to around 16. Thanks!

[MrStabby]

Warlock 2 Sorcerer X is seen as a pretty optimised multiclass anyway. Short rest spells, invocations, metamagic... all good.

GOOlock is great at this as well because the spells like dissonant whispers that you get work really well at high levels as well.

[Malkavia]

Warlock 2 Sorcerer X is seen as a pretty optimised multiclass anyway. Short rest spells, invocations, metamagic... all good.

GOOlock is great at this as well because the spells like dissonant whispers that you get work really well at high levels as well.

My issue with GOOlock is really the amount of defense I give up. With a 14 dex, I can wear studded leather and get a 14 AC, spend a spell slot on mage armor and get 15 AC, or go hexblade with half plate and a shield and get 19 AC. It's just such a huge jump in AC, that it's difficult to pass up. Seriously, hexblades are just too much at lvl 1.

[AvvyR]

Why not just be a Ghostwise Halfling from SCAG? You don't get the CHA bump, but you get telepathy without multiclassing.

[Malkavia]

Why not just be a Ghostwise Halfling from SCAG? You don't get the CHA bump, but you get telepathy without multiclassing.

Sadly, I only have access to the PHB and Xanathar's at the table I play at. That would work though...if I could stomach being a halfling. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Kadesh]

My issue with GOOlock is really the amount of defense I give up. With a 14 dex, I can wear studded leather and get a 14 AC, spend a spell slot on mage armor and get 15 AC, or go hexblade with half plate and a shield and get 19 AC. It's just such a huge jump in AC, that it's difficult to pass up. Seriously, hexblades are just too much at lvl 1.

Dragon Sorcerer provides you with AC13, or Mountain Dwarf gives you Medium Armour Proficiency, so you can get an AC of 16. A level of Cleric 1 gives you Heavy Armour if you take Life, Nature, Tempest, War, or Forge if you need it, and Shield if you take it first.

[Bahamut7]

Depending on your resources, why not create a series of mini-scrolls or a small magic item like a ring that uses the Message cantrip? This would allow you full progression in one class or the other and give you the awakened mind ability only better because targets can also respond. Cantrips for 1 shot items are only 15 GP and a day to make. You could make a few of these in some downtime or craft the ring or other jewelry with the cantrip built it.

[Malkavia]

Depending on your resources, why not create a series of mini-scrolls or a small magic item like a ring that uses the Message cantrip? This would allow you full progression in one class or the other and give you the awakened mind ability only better because targets can also respond. Cantrips for 1 shot items are only 15 GP and a day to make. You could make a few of these in some downtime or craft the ring or other jewelry with the cantrip built it.

I'm unfamiliar with the crafting rules. Can you point out to me which book/section this is in? Thanks!

[Malkavia]

Dragon Sorcerer provides you with AC13, or Mountain Dwarf gives you Medium Armour Proficiency, so you can get an AC of 16. A level of Cleric 1 gives you Heavy Armour if you take Life, Nature, Tempest, War, or Forge if you need it, and Shield if you take it first.

I forgot about dragon sorcerer. At least she wouldn't have to waste any resources on mage armor with that. The mountain dwarf looks like it would be great for a non-hexblade bladelock, but I don't think quite fits the concept. As for cleric, I haven't looked into any 1 level dips there, but I will now. Thanks.

[Kadesh]

As a thought as well, you can go for Dragonborn, and take Dragon Hide as a feat, whch boosts your Con, AC13+Dex, and 1d4+Str Slashing Claws; although a +2 Str doesn't particularly benefit you overmuch, especially if you take a more horrifying one like a Black or Red Dragonborn.

[Malkavia]

As a thought as well, you can go for Dragonborn, and take Dragon Hide as a feat, whch boosts your Con, AC13+Dex, and 1d4+Str Slashing Claws; although a +2 Str doesn't particularly benefit you overmuch, especially if you take a more horrifying one like a Black or Red Dragonborn.

Yeah, I also have issues with vizualizing characters the further they get away from human, so I probably just wouldn't do dragonborn for that reason alone.

[Bahamut7]

I'm unfamiliar with the crafting rules. Can you point out to me which book/section this is in? Thanks!

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg 129 for item crafting. Pg 133 for the scroll scribing section. If you don't have a copy of the book, let me know and I will PM you a copy of the chart.

[Malkavia]

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything, pg 129 for item crafting. Pg 133 for the scroll scribing section. If you don't have a copy of the book, let me know and I will PM you a copy of the chart.

I have access to one. Thanks again!

[Anymage]

If all else fails, Moderately Armored is a half feat. It doesn't support your CHA, but you can have one less point of DEX preparing for it. Plus, since it isn't one of the power feats, you're more likely to find a DM who'll allow you to take vhuman for it.

Warlock2/Clr1/SorcX isn't horribly suboptimal, since Eldritch Blast covers most of your DPS needs and that one extra level lost won't kill you. (5e caster multiclassing is a nice thing.) My main complaint is that it sounds a little more busy than I like. You can completely ignore the flavor tastes of some online rando. Whether you think that a level or a feat investment is easier to stomach is a matter of personal taste.

[Malkavia]

If all else fails, Moderately Armored is a half feat. It doesn't support your CHA, but you can have one less point of DEX preparing for it. Plus, since it isn't one of the power feats, you're more likely to find a DM who'll allow you to take vhuman for it.

Warlock2/Clr1/SorcX isn't horribly suboptimal, since Eldritch Blast covers most of your DPS needs and that one extra level lost won't kill you. (5e caster multiclassing is a nice thing.) My main complaint is that it sounds a little more busy than I like. You can completely ignore the flavor tastes of some online rando. Whether you think that a level or a feat investment is easier to stomach is a matter of personal taste.

Oh wow. I didn't realize moderately armored also gave access to shields. In my head, I was pretty set on half-elf, but that makes vhuman way more attractive, as it makes going GOO-lock was less bad. I'll be sad to give up eventually taking elven accuracy though. It's one of my favorites. Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention!

[Biggstick]

It sounds like the biggest thing you're worried about is AC. Quite honestly, once you get past level 5, thats going to be less and less important for an arguably back-line caster as it is.

Hexblade armor and shields will be useful for the first few levels mechanically, but you can base an entire character concept and role around the Awakened Mind feature that is useful both in combat and outside of combat. Silent 1-way communication with your party and removal of language barriers with any creature you run across is simply an incredible thing to play with.

This is all of course dependent on your DM though. Do you run through your campaigns as 90 percent combat optimization? What value is placed on social encounters? Even if your DM runs 50 percent combat and splits the rest of the game among the remaining pillars, you'll find greater versatility and usefulness to your party with the Awakened Mind feature compared ro having 19 AC over 15 AC.

[Malkavia]

It sounds like the biggest thing you're worried about is AC. Quite honestly, once you get past level 5, thats going to be less and less important for an arguably back-line caster as it is.

Hexblade armor and shields will be useful for the first few levels mechanically, but you can base an entire character concept and role around the Awakened Mind feature that is useful both in combat and outside of combat. Silent 1-way communication with your party and removal of language barriers with any creature you run across is simply an incredible thing to play with.

This is all of course dependent on your DM though. Do you run through your campaigns as 90 percent combat optimization? What value is placed on social encounters? Even if your DM runs 50 percent combat and splits the rest of the game among the remaining pillars, you'll find greater versatility and usefulness to your party with the Awakened Mind feature compared ro having 19 AC over 15 AC.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about the table I'll be playing at as to what the split of combat vs. social is. I'm on a waitlist right now at what's essentially a giant DnD night at a bar, and I'm preparing different characters depending on what roles my future party has.

To your point about AC, I think it's more that I'm seeing AC as a mechanical advantage for situations where players are most likely to get killed and the awakened mind as primarily a roleplaying thing, where there's usually a non-mechanical way to solve the problem. GOOlock would be bringing other advantages with the spell list if I thought I'd be commiting to it, but it's not offering me much mechanically as a dip when compared to hexblade. Also, another synergy I'm seeing with hexblade is the curse, as I'm most likely going half-elf with elven accuracy. Rolling 3d20's combined with an expanded crit is just so juicy.

Really though, if I could just make a decently optimized GOOlock with subtle spell I'd be happiest. I'm a huge fan Lovecraftian horror and Bloodborne. Anyways, thanks for giving me something to think on.

[Snivlem]

Really though, if I could just make a decently optimized GOOlock with subtle spell I'd be happiest. I'm a huge fan Lovecraftian horror and Bloodborne. Anyways, thanks for giving me something to think on.

You can. It's not like sorc/warlock was seen as a suboptimal multiclass until hexblade came along...