Help Please!

[Bugbean]

Okay, so I need help. I'm playing in a campaign where I've died twice in two sessions, and two other players died at the same time in one session. Our DM is a bit older, and as he puts it, "he likes games to be rough tough, like the old Gary Gygax modules". He uses a critical hit chart that ranges from "normal damage" to "double-max damage" and even "quadruple damage". All things considered, it's the critical hit chart that's making dead fools of us all, and we're going to talk to him about maybe taking that out or modifying it to be less...lethal?

Anyone, whether the chart remains or is removed, the campaign will remain difficult. Thus, I'm asking you for help; help me make a completely and absurdly OP character to run in this game. The following restrictions apply:

• Level 5.
• No homebrew (UA and everything like Planeshift stuff is fine)

• That's it lol

The DM gave us the following base stats:
18, 18, 16, 16, 15, 14.

We get max HP for the first 3 levels, then normal HP after that.

If we play half-dragons, he also Grant's the following bonuses to us: +2 to 3 stats, and +1 to the other 3 stats. We also gain two cantrips that recharge on a short rest, one 1st level spell that recharges on a long rest, and a base AC of 13 + Dex (or base armor if we choose to wear armor), and resist 5 to a single elemental type (based on the dragon type we choose). Also, if we choose to play half-dragons, you don't gain the base race's ability score adjustments, but you gain everything else from the base race.

So, I ask you friends, please work your magic and build a 5th level character that's OP for that level with the information given. :)

[slade88green]

It sounds like you should talk with your DM about the lethality of the games he is running and how constantly rebuilding characters is diminishing the fun for you and the other players. D&D is supposed to be fun for everyone. Working at trying to beat your DM at the game isn't how its supposed to work. Talk to him and if it doesn't change anything, look for a new group to play with.

[Willie the Duck]

I think the correct response is to get with the rest of your group, sit down with the DM, and tell them that you are there to play D&D, not stroke their ego. What they have put together is anything but "rough tough, like the old Gary Gygax modules," it is 'wild swings to the left and right, pretending that they average out' with a hint of '12 year old, first time DM' added in. Making players (apparently outrageously) overpowered compared to the game book, but then wildly increasing the damage they receive at random (crit-based) intervals is nothing but making sure that player decisions don't matter. You will succeed with massive overkill most of the time, and then die at some random moment when the opponent dice line up right, even though you aren't doing something particularly foolish. In other words, this DM is doing their best not to teach you how to play D&D.

No perfect build we can make this not be a huge mess.

[Demonslayer666]

I'd make a half dragon barbarian and max Con and str and next highest into dex, and then convince your friend to play a life cleric.

[Malifice]

Quit.

The game sounds awful.

[nickl_2000]

Sounds to me that you should go with a crit fisher yourself. There is a nice guide to it here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?551329-Terrible-Terrible-Damage-A-Crit-Fishing-Mini-Guide


If that doesn't sound fun or doesn't worth the next bet would be to play a character modifies the rolls. A divination wizard could be useful here.


Lastly you could say "I don't really care about death" and play a naked divine soul barbarian (20 dex, 20 Con, 18 Str). If you die, well who cares, you can be brought back for free over and over again.

[ElChad]

Looking for a character that's tough to take down?

Go with a Bear Shaman Warrior

Dragonborn, Level 2 Bear Totem Barbarian / Level 3 Moon Druid.

STR 17
DEX 18
CON 20
INT 16
WIS 20
CHA 15

HP : 67 (17+17+13+10[1D8 average + 5]+10)
AC : 24 (13 + 5 for CON + 4 for DEX + 2 for Shield)

Spells
Cantrip :
Shillelagh
Thorn Whip

Level 1 :
Cure Wounds
Healing Word
Entangle
Faerie Fire
Longstrider

Level 2 :
Healing Spirit
Lesser Restoration
Moonbeam

This is just straight up, tongue in cheek, cheese. Unless your DM starts throwing psychic damage at you, you effectively have 134 to start with. Now 134 is pretty great and all, but there's more. Turn into your Totem Animal (Brown Bear), and you gain another 68 HP. You can do that twice per day. That totals up to 270 HP to rock.

When not in bear form, you will mostly be hitting enemies with your Shillelagh. Add in every healing spell you can get. Every point you get back is effectively doubled.

Your only weakness is Disintegration and Instant Death spells, though it'll take a lot to get you down to a point where that's an issue.

Warning: Your DM will despise you and try to eliminate you at every possibility.

[Bugbean]

Sounds to me that you should go with a crit fisher yourself. There is a nice guide to it here

Tried that (Elven Fighter with Elven Accuracy), and died on round 2 of that character's first encounter. :(

Sadly, this is the only group I have to play with; I live in an area where players are not just scarce, they don't exist within a 50 mile radius :'(

[sophontteks]

Your party needs a grave cleric. They can turn enemy crits into normal hits as a reaction. This will end the DMs crit shenanagans once and for all.

Also, make absolutely sure you are doing everything you can to give the enemy disadvantage. It drastically reduces the odds of receiving a crit.

A bard with vicious mockery imposes disadvantage.
Lucky allows rerolls if you are crit.
Divination wizard can turn crits into misses.
You get the idea.

[ImproperJustice]

Create a dirt farmer?
If adventuring is that lethal, why would anyone do it?

It’s like a Traveler game I played in where combat was almost certain death and all skill checks were almost impossible, so the party all played characters that literally sat around and did nothing. For hours......

[Bugbean]

Create a dirt farmer?
If adventuring is that lethal, why would anyone do it?

It’s like a Traveler game I played in where combat was almost certain death and all skill checks were almost impossible, so the party all played characters that literally sat around and did nothing. For hours......

We're supposed to be "Wardens", or protectors of some sort or whatever for the realms. Doing nothing is not an option, although I sometimes wish it were. Dragon overlords send us on missions. :/

[MilkmanDanimal]

Convince your fellow friends to make pathetic, squishy characters so you all die within five minutes so you can go do something fun instead.

Sounds like an awful campaign run by a 12-year-old who thinks D&D is a contest where the DM's goal is to kill the players.

[Bugbean]

Convince your fellow friends to make pathetic, squishy characters so you all die within five minutes so you can go do something fun instead.

Sounds like an awful campaign run by a 12-year-old who thinks D&D is a contest where the DM's goal is to kill the players.

It really is very unfun, but the DM is my uncle and I don't want to hurt his feelings. We've already asked if the difficulty could be lowered a little, and he was instantly against it. :(

So, now trying to decide if I should make something insanely OP (which is sounding increasingly impossible), or tell him I quit.

[Segev]

The absurdly lucky Halfling diviner is a good option for reducing enemy crits. Halfling Luck, Lucky feat, Diviner's Portent all let you force dice that are too good to be less good, and also can (in Portent's case, in particular) let you guarantee a good die roll when it's important.

Depending on how your DM rules magical darkness, the darkness spell might be a godsend for your ranged characters. Cast it on them, and they can see out, but enemies can't see in. So they have Advantage on attacks, and enemies have Disadvantage to respond. If your DM rules that it blinds people in its radius, go with this next trick, instead:

Silent image of fog around you and your party. Have a signal that you can call out to the party that lets them know, "This 'fog' is illusory." The worst the DM can do at that point is force your allies to take an action making an Investigation check to see through it; some DMs might even just let it automatically be seen through on the basis that they KNOW it's not real. His monsters will have zero reason to suspect it's illusory, so they're blinded by it. Or at least, unable to see you and anybody else in it. Instant Disadvantage on their attacks against targets in your illusory fog. Meanwhile, Advantage for you against them. IF he tries to have his monsters make the investigation check, call him out on the fact that they have no reason to suspect it's not real; if he does it anyway, next time, cast a real fog cloud on them, and insist he make them waste at least one action Investigating to see if they can see through the spell. It will buy you a round. And a real fog cloud will give both you and the enemies Disadvantage, which still ups your survival against his nasty crit table.

[sophontteks]

Its really not that bad if crits are your problem. Its very easy to build your party around crits. I mean you could just take lucky with any character and reroll up to 2 crits per day.

[SirGraystone]

There's not a lot that can save you if you dies on round 2. But Half-Orc has relentless endurance that let you go up once a day, Goliath has Stone’s Endurance that let you shurgs off some damage. Maybe Goliath Barbarian for the extra hp and the damage resistance from the rage should help survive longer.

[Contrast]

I agree with sophontteks - the crits are a symptom of a larger problem. Crits are nasty at low levels even in the regular rules but they shouldn't be coming up enough often to be consistently kill multiple PCs a session.

My immediate suggestion (if you are determined to carry on playing with the group and no-one else wants to step up and DM instead) would be to play a glamour bard with inspiring leader. You have THP out of the wazoo, the ability to get the party out of dangerous situations and healing word to keep on getting people back in the fight when they hit zero.

Oh and everyone should be half-dragons because you DM has made half-dragons much better than any other race. :smallannoyed:

[Sigreid]

There's nothing you can do to the character in creation that is going to change your outcome. You need to change your mindset. Change your method of operation to what I've seen on this forum called combat as war. The I would recommend a high damage sneaky party, with as many spells and powers that restrict movement as possible. The idea is not to out tough the enemy but to deny them the ability to fight back as much as possible.

I know it's a rough way to play when you aren't used to it but it can be very fun and rewarding.

[JNAProductions]

Talk to your DM. That's the best bet-explain to him that you're not having fun. If he's a good DM, he'll listen and try to modify his DMing accordingly.

Now, I'm guilty of being a killer DM myself sometimes too. I have a nasty habit of throwing players into situations above their pay grade. I'm working on fixing that, but the important thing is, when I talk to my players, they're still having fun. If you aren't having fun... Don't play.

[Bugbean]

Oh and everyone should be half-dragons because you DM has made half-dragons much better than any other race. :smallannoyed:

Everyone is playing half dragons. Still dying. The DM also has a habit of overruling results. Like, I rolled a natural 20 on intimidation against a lowly dwarf, and received no information at all. The dwarf just ran to pretty much "tell on us" to a dragon overlord.

Sigh, if he wasn't family, I wouldn't be playing anymore. Seriously not having fun.

[Bugbean]

Talk to your DM. That's the best bet-explain to him that you're not having fun. If he's a good DM, he'll listen and try to modify his DMing accordingly.

Now, I'm guilty of being a killer DM myself sometimes too. I have a nasty habit of throwing players into situations above their pay grade. I'm working on fixing that, but the important thing is, when I talk to my players, they're still having fun. If you aren't having fun... Don't play.

Exactly. I don't mind dying every now and then (combat should be tough at times; risk adds tension, and thus fun), but when it's every session and its everyone dying quickly, it's just not fun.

[Magzimum]

Let’s approach this in character.

So, dragons are sending squads of adventurers on what appears to be suicide missions. Saying "No" is not an option. (And the DM is already playing ‘against’ the players). This is an interesting world to live in.

You could all roll up the same Clerics of Bhaal (God of murder), who have been chosen to pay their respect to the Dragon Overlords. You’re all aware of the fact that you are on a suicide mission and you expect to die. You are no longer playing D&D in the traditional sense, but you just try to stay alive as long as you can.

Or you could make sure you have a wizard in your team who has studied a lot and knows from books how lethal the missions are that you are sent on. And with that knowledge, it is not so crazy if you choose to rebel. Fight against your overlords rather than being their expendable puppets.

If your DM is not playing it by the rules, and basically makes it so ridiculously hard to stay alive, then I would stop playing it by his rules. Get off the railroad.

[ciarannihill]

• Level 5.
• No homebrew (UA and everything like Planeshift stuff is fine)

• That's it lol

The DM gave us the following base stats:
18, 18, 16, 16, 15, 14.

We get max HP for the first 3 levels, then normal HP after that.

If we play half-dragons, he also Grant's the following bonuses to us: +2 to 3 stats, and +1 to the other 3 stats. We also gain two cantrips that recharge on a short rest, one 1st level spell that recharges on a long rest, and a base AC of 13 + Dex (or base armor if we choose to wear armor), and resist 5 to a single elemental type (based on the dragon type we choose). Also, if we choose to play half-dragons, you don't gain the base race's ability score adjustments, but you gain everything else from the base race.


So a lot of this is homebrew, so it's kind of funny to me that he says that he restricts homebrew, but....

If I understand correctly he's letting you do a Half Dragon character with base 18, 18, 16, 16, 15, 14 and allowing +2, +2, +2, +1, +1, +1 to the stats? Arranged as you want? Plus the early level HP boon and 13 base AC? Just want to understand what you're working with here, because allowing a stat spread of 20, 20, 18, 17, 16, 15 after bonuses is potentially really powerful and you can go in a lot of different, effective directions with it.

Regardless of if my understanding is accurate, I agree with sophontteks that having the ability to impose Disadvantage on rolls or prevent criticals will be vital going forward from at least one party member.

[Segev]

Everyone is playing half dragons. Still dying. The DM also has a habit of overruling results. Like, I rolled a natural 20 on intimidation against a lowly dwarf, and received no information at all. The dwarf just ran to pretty much "tell on us" to a dragon overlord.

Sigh, if he wasn't family, I wouldn't be playing anymore. Seriously not having fun.

Learn the game the DM is running. Intimidation doesn't work. So don't spare enemies. Murder them outright. If he tries to call you out as "evil" or something, tell him that you're just playing the game he's given you; if you let them live, it always comes back to bite you and never helps. Honestly, if he's the kind of DM it sounds to me like he is, he won't mind. He's trying to train you to play that way.

Now, if he's overriding die results to the point that you don't get crits and he does, then he's not just being a killer DM, he's outright cheating. Even by Gygaxian standards. Gary Gygax was big on DMs being allowed to cheat to increase challenge, but he was also big on players having a chance. If the DM is cheating to wipe PCs out regularly, he's not really playing the game at all. He's the GM. "Rocks fall; everyone dies" is well within his power. And that's all he's doing if he's cheating too hard to make monsters kill players' characters regularly.

Another thing you might look at: Armor of Agathys is a Warlock spell that gives you 5 temp hp per level of the spell slot you use to cast it. More importantly, when something hits you in melee, it takes as much damage as it deals to you while you have any of those temp hp left. It's a 1st level spell.

[ImproperJustice]

We're supposed to be "Wardens", or protectors of some sort or whatever for the realms. Doing nothing is not an option, although I sometimes wish it were. Dragon overlords send us on missions. :/

Nothing really is an option.
Unless your GM is threatening you in real life with bodily harm or imprisonment, your character can do whatever it wants.

GM: A call goes out to the Wardens to enter the Dungeon of Doom and face Gygax the terrible!
The place that saw the death of your last 12 members of your order!
PC: I desert. This is clearly a suicide mission and out commanders are insane. We either need to send more people or abandon the territory and regroup. I recommend (to the other party members): that we lead the refugees of our community to safety until we can join up with a larger force and assault this death trap with the massive force ot requires before we lose more precious lives in the process, and I will stand up to (or flee) from anyone who says otherwise!

A good GM would take the hint and modify the game, or even take things in a new direction.

Yours will feel that his authority has been challenged and will try to bully you. At that point you should hand your character sheet to him and recommend that he run the game by himself, as you don’t need to be bullied into having his kind of fun.

The first time I ran a game for my kids, I made the mistake of making the game too serious and not fun enough. He needs to catch on that if he does not make the game fun, he will not have players. It’s a social community game, not solo ego-stroking.

[Bugbean]

So a lot of this is homebrew, so it's kind of funny to me that he says that he restricts homebrew, but....

If I understand correctly he's letting you do a Half Dragon character with base 18, 18, 16, 16, 15, 14 and allowing +2, +2, +2, +1, +1, +1 to the stats? Arranged as you want? Plus the early level HP boon and 13 base AC? Just want to understand what you're working with here, because allowing a stat spread of 20, 20, 18, 17, 16, 15 after bonuses is potentially really powerful and you can go in a lot of different, effective directions with it.

Regardless of if my understanding is accurate, I agree with sophontteks that having the ability to impose Disadvantage on rolls or prevent criticals will be vital going forward from at least one party member.

Everything you've stated is correct.

[Bugbean]

Nothing really is an option.

This is true. We could indeed not respond to mission demands and simply do our own thing. We'll likely just be killed by the Dragon Overlords, tho, so maybe just handing over my character sheet is the correct course of action.

I mean, I'm deliberately avoiding Enchantments and Illusions because I know they won't work the way they're supposed to, and I'm just wasting my time with those schools of magic.

EDIT: Sorry, this is turning more into a "my DM sucks" rant than a "please help me build something". I apologize. Guess I'm just frustrated and looking for anyway possible to make this game fun.

[mephnick]

Modifying the table is a start, but if you're dying on round 2 of encounter 1 then crits aren't the main problem. It sounds like this guy wants a combat as war, old school game, but hasn't learned how to run one or taught his players how to play in one. It's fine to want an old school campaign, but they require some mastery, you can't just force your players into deadly combats and call it "old school."

[SirGraystone]

In the end there's no magic that can save you. You uncle is playing against you instead of with you, having fun killing you off and not building a fun experience with you. Your real options as I see it are those:

- Talking to your uncle to change the game so it's more fun for everyones, but you said you already tried that
- Having someone else be the DM instead of your uncle.
- Stop playing until you uncle change his way, be polite tell him you are sorry but you are not having fun in his game.

[Sigreid]

I guess I'm a different kind than most on this thread. I'd kind of get a kick out of trying to beat this insanity, unless it became apparent that he was fudging against me.

But that does mean I would never fight on his terms.

[MilkmanDanimal]

This is true. We could indeed not respond to mission demands and simply do our own thing. We'll likely just be killed by the Dragon Overlords, tho, so maybe just handing over my character sheet is the correct course of action.

I mean, I'm deliberately avoiding Enchantments and Illusions because I know they won't work the way they're supposed to, and I'm just wasting my time with those schools of magic.

EDIT: Sorry, this is turning more into a "my DM sucks" rant than a "please help me build something". I apologize. Guess I'm just frustrated and looking for anyway possible to make this game fun.

Yeah, it is kind of turning out into a general "DM sucks" thing, but, honestly, your DM sucks. The goal is that everybody should be having fun, but his goal is clearly to kill off characters and pretend it's "Gygaxian", as if every single Gary Gygax-designed adventure was the Tomb of Horrors, which was absolutely an outlier in early D&D. That was the one adventure where Gygax was clearly trying to kill off the players through particularly evil traps or huge challenges, but he had loads of early adventures that were nothing like that. Keep on the Borderlands was the starter module for original AD&D, and, sure, there were monsters and pit traps and a chance to die, but it was designed to help players learn the system and give them a fun adventure, not murder every first-level character five minutes after they left the keep.

Your uncle's definition of "fun" in D&D is apparently that he gets to kill characters off. That's unlikely to change, regardless of how you build your character. I'm going to assume building a super-character capable of actually surviving and adventure just means he's going to think things aren't challenging enough, and he's going to make it even harder next time.

[SirGraystone]

The goal is that everybody should be having fun, but his goal is clearly to kill off characters and pretend it's "Gygaxian", as if every single Gary Gygax-designed adventure was the Tomb of Horrors, which was absolutely an outlier in early D&D. That was the one adventure where Gygax was clearly trying to kill off the players through particularly evil traps or huge challenges, but he had loads of early adventures that were nothing like that. Keep on the Borderlands was the starter module for original AD&D, and, sure, there were monsters and pit traps and a chance to die, but it was designed to help players learn the system and give them a fun adventure, not murder every first-level character five minutes after they left the keep.

True, even Tomb of Horror had trap that killed you on a bad saving throws, not monsters that did x4 damage on a 20.

[MaxWilson]

It really is very unfun, but the DM is my uncle and I don't want to hurt his feelings. We've already asked if the difficulty could be lowered a little, and he was instantly against it. :(

So, now trying to decide if I should make something insanely OP (which is sounding increasingly impossible), or tell him I quit.

I'm sympathetic to both you and your uncle. It sounds like you have different expectations for what D&D is supposed to be about. He appears to want lots of dramatic tension and real stakes, such that surviving a single adventure is a great story and a great way to spend an evening. You seem to want more of a long-term game where your characters are, if not guaranteed, at least likely to live for many adventures in succession and reach higher levels, and where a campaign is a great way to spend several months.

Is there any way for you guys to come to terms on this, maybe by running a series of one-shots instead of a campaign? Essentially you'd be cutting out all of the middle bits and skipping to the pivotal moments of each character's life (kind of like how Harry Dresden has good days and bad days, but the ones that make it into the novels are all of the worst days when everything goes wrong at once :)), with replacement characters for anyone whose previous character died in the last one-shot

So anyway, instead of responding by changing the way you build characters, I'd respond by changing the way you view and play the game, and asking him to meet you halfway.

[Unoriginal]

I mean, I'm deliberately avoiding Enchantments and Illusions because I know they won't work the way they're supposed to, and I'm just wasting my time with those schools of magic.


I think you're wasting your time with an unfun campaign.

[ciarannihill]

So here's a thought that perhaps you hadn't considered and is potentially unwelcome advice, but here goes:

Why not simply start your own campaign? Put yourself in the DM chair, maybe invite him to play as a PC in the game? I started DMing because I didn't have a decent DM in my local area, and I love running games now, it's fun, interesting and creatively rewarding (I also love playing, but these days I do a lot less playing than I'd like c'est la vie).

Might give you a chance to provide an example of how compelling a long term narrative with appropriate challenge and stakes can be to him, and if he doesn't enjoy it that's fine, perhaps he'll leave the game on his terms -- you won't feel like you've hurt his feelings -- if he does enjoy it, GREAT! You've found a way to play together without an enjoyment imbalance.

As for the possible "why the sudden interest?" question, you could simply say that watching him DM made you curious about the other side of the screen.


I dunno, just a potential move to fix the situation without having to drop out of the game/group that it seems is awkward to leave.

[Segev]

Assuming your DM is playing fairly, and just hard, rather than actively cheating on purpose to revel in "winning," you should make a character that can win against what he's throwing at you, and revise your tactics as a party to make things happen on your terms. Build the dice-manipulator, use silent image not to fool the DM, but to impose selective Advantage and Disadvantage (i.e. with illusory fog), and if he still cheats it, insist he spend the same actions on real fog in the future, which will let you and your party buy a round of inactivity from his monsters.

Use armor of Agathys if you can find room in your build; his super-high damage will bite him in the back, and it will soak the damage for you, too.

Learn ambush tactics and stealth, and look up some old school stories about ways people have broken games not with mechanics, but silly stunts. Like re-routing rivers into the mouths of dungeons.

[Bugbean]

So here's a thought that perhaps you hadn't considered and is potentially unwelcome advice, but here goes:

Why not simply start your own campaign? Put yourself in the DM chair, maybe invite him to play as a PC in the game? I started DMing because I didn't have a decent DM in my local area, and I love running games now, it's fun, interesting and creatively rewarding (I also love playing, but these days I do a lot less playing than I'd like c'est la vie).

Might give you a chance to provide an example of how compelling a long term narrative with appropriate challenge and stakes can be to him, and if he doesn't enjoy it that's fine, perhaps he'll leave the game on his terms -- you won't feel like you've hurt his feelings -- if he does enjoy it, GREAT! You've found a way to play together without an enjoyment imbalance.

As for the possible "why the sudden interest?" question, you could simply say that watching him DM made you curious about the other side of the screen.


I dunno, just a potential move to fix the situation without having to drop out of the game/group that it seems is awkward to leave.

I would love to run a campaign, but the DM won't step aside.

[Bugbean]

Assuming your DM is playing fairly, and just hard, rather than actively cheating on purpose to revel in "winning," you should make a character that can win against what he's throwing at you, and revise your tactics as a party to make things happen on your terms. Build the dice-manipulator, use silent image not to fool the DM, but to impose selective Advantage and Disadvantage (i.e. with illusory fog), and if he still cheats it, insist he spend the same actions on real fog in the future, which will let you and your party buy a round of inactivity from his monsters.

Use armor of Agathys if you can find room in your build; his super-high damage will bite him in the back, and it will soak the damage for you, too.

Learn ambush tactics and stealth, and look up some old school stories about ways people have broken games not with mechanics, but silly stunts. Like re-routing rivers into the mouths of dungeons.

Stealth is next to impossible. Hell, we were just standing near a coastline and 4 trolls and 1 super troll came leaping out of the water. We were 3rd level...with no access to fire or acid damage (all playing silvers, blue's, and greens), and no mage to speak of. It was a massacre that the surviving members had to simply flee from. One character lost her ear, and another had his ribs broken.

But what really got me was when the DM said after the battle, "well, your characters are pretty familiar with the area, so you would have know those trolls were there somewhere."

Like, seriously???! If we knew they were there the whole time, we would have never strayed so close to the coast in the first place!

*sigh*:smallsigh:

[Sigreid]

If you want to DM a campaign, do you really need his permission? Just do it and invite him or not.

[Bugbean]

If you want to DM a campaign, do you really need his permission? Just do it and invite him or not.

He's my uncle though. If I just start a game myself, essentially pushing his game off the table, there's going to be ton of resentment there.

I suppose I have a tough choice to make here soon. Either push him aside, or slog through this hellish campaign...or quit altogether.

[ciarannihill]

If you want to DM a campaign, do you really need his permission? Just do it and invite him or not.

This is my thought too. Inviting him is a courtesy, but you don't need anyone's permission to play -- you just need players. If your local area is lacking them, find people online to start a game with! Hell, you're on a forum about the game right now, I guarantee if you go to the "Finding Players" forum you'll get responses.

[Malifice]

Looking for a character that's tough to take down?

Go with a Bear Shaman Warrior

Dragonborn, Level 2 Bear Totem Barbarian / Level 3 Moon Druid.

STR 17
DEX 18
CON 20
INT 16
WIS 20
CHA 15

HP : 67 (17+17+13+10[1D8 average + 5]+10)
AC : 24 (13 + 5 for CON + 4 for DEX + 2 for Shield)

Spells
Cantrip :
Shillelagh
Thorn Whip

Level 1 :
Cure Wounds
Healing Word
Entangle
Faerie Fire
Longstrider

Level 2 :
Healing Spirit
Lesser Restoration
Moonbeam

This is just straight up, tongue in cheek, cheese. Unless your DM starts throwing psychic damage at you, you effectively have 134 to start with. Now 134 is pretty great and all, but there's more. Turn into your Totem Animal (Brown Bear), and you gain another 68 HP. You can do that twice per day. That totals up to 270 HP to rock.

When not in bear form, you will mostly be hitting enemies with your Shillelagh. Add in every healing spell you can get. Every point you get back is effectively doubled.

Your only weakness is Disintegration and Instant Death spells, though it'll take a lot to get you down to a point where that's an issue.

Warning: Your DM will despise you and try to eliminate you at every possibility.

The AC is wrong.

Very wrong.

[Unoriginal]

He's my uncle though. If I just start a game myself, essentially pushing his game off the table, there's going to be ton of resentment there.

I suppose I have a tough choice to make here soon. Either push him aside, or slog through this hellish campaign...or quit altogether.

Or you could just talk with him to minimize resentment.

Would he really be pissed off if you told him "I'm sorry, but I don't enjoy your playstyle"?

[Sigreid]

He's my uncle though. If I just start a game myself, essentially pushing his game off the table, there's going to be ton of resentment there.

I suppose I have a tough choice to make here soon. Either push him aside, or slog through this hellish campaign...or quit altogether.

Can you DM on a different day than he does? Depending on time constraints it doesn't have to be either or.

And speaking as an uncle, it's amazing how much leeway I have for my nieces and nephews. He may be more tolerant where you're concerned than you think.

[Willie the Duck]

The AC is wrong.

Very wrong.

Sadly, it is also genuinely wrong. Much like dragon sorcerer (or lizardfolk) barbarians, the two armor replacing effects do not stack (the both have base armor class that 'equals' a number, not adds to a base). He would have to pick "base AC of 13 + Dex (or base armor if we choose to wear armor)" or "10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier" (test of unarmored defense), whichever is higher.

[MilkmanDanimal]

He's my uncle though. If I just start a game myself, essentially pushing his game off the table, there's going to be ton of resentment there.

I suppose I have a tough choice to make here soon. Either push him aside, or slog through this hellish campaign...or quit altogether.

Yeah, sounds like you have a choice; have fun, or fulfill what you feel to be a family obligation. It's basically down to that, as nothing you've said indicates you've been enjoying this experience, so it sounds like you're basically doing this because you feel you have to. It's rough, but I think you either have to deal with it and have an endlessly-churning series of soon-to-be-dead characters so that your uncle can enjoy himself, or you can go do something else, probably without your uncle. From that troll story, it sounds like your uncle has a very detailed world and story in his head he hasn't bothered telling you about, and expects you to understand it as well as he does whether or not he's bothered to tell you about it.

From what you have related in multiple posts, it really does sound like the odds of you enjoying this game are somewhat between zero and zero.

[Segev]

I would love to run a campaign, but the DM won't step aside.

Yeah, you don't need his permission. Just offer to the other players. You don't even have to take over his time slot if they can be available some other time.

[Bugbean]

Yeah, sounds like you have a choice; have fun, or fulfill what you feel to be a family obligation. It's basically down to that, as nothing you've said indicates you've been enjoying this experience, so it sounds like you're basically doing this because you feel you have to. It's rough, but I think you either have to deal with it and have an endlessly-churning series of soon-to-be-dead characters so that your uncle can enjoy himself, or you can go do something else, probably without your uncle. From that troll story, it sounds like your uncle has a very detailed world and story in his head he hasn't bothered telling you about, and expects you to understand it as well as he does whether or not he's bothered to tell you about it.

From what you have related in multiple posts, it really does sound like the odds of you enjoying this game are somewhat between zero and zero.

Well, the group has been talking while I've been posting here, and we resolved to try one last time to discuss the situation with the DM, asking if the difficulty could be lowered somewhat so that we can have some characters grow and evolve together without having the threat of constant death hanging over us. We're trying to be polite about it, but if the DM again refuses, we're just going to quit and start a new game with just us.

[Sigreid]

Well, the group has been talking while I've been posting here, and we resolved to try one last time to discuss the situation with the DM, asking if the difficulty could be lowered somewhat so that we can have some characters grow and evolve together without having the threat of constant death hanging over us. We're trying to be polite about it, but if the DM again refuses, we're just going to quit and start a new game with just us.

Really your best option, based on what you have posted. And it's not even your fault. It was decided by the others and out of respect for you and your uncle they agree to one more tey.

[nickl_2000]

Well, the group has been talking while I've been posting here, and we resolved to try one last time to discuss the situation with the DM, asking if the difficulty could be lowered somewhat so that we can have some characters grow and evolve together without having the threat of constant death hanging over us. We're trying to be polite about it, but if the DM again refuses, we're just going to quit and start a new game with just us.

Good luck.... Character building issues are easy. Real people problems are way, way harder (especially with family involved).

[sithlordnergal]

So I am curious, do you guys get access to the crit chart as well? If so, then do your best to make use of it.

That said, out of game you should try talking to your uncle. I know you have, but it is the best way to help things.

In game though, might I suggest a Soradin with the Paladin subclass that lets you negate damage to an ally and have it be done to an enemy? I forget which Subclass it is, but it in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Their Channel Divinity lets them use reaction to negate damage to a person. The attacker then make a Wisdom save vs your spell dc. If they fail, the attacker takes the full damage of their attack, and they take half damage if they succeed.

If you survive long enough to get second level sorcerer, take blur and mirror image.

[MaxWilson]

Use armor of Agathys if you can find room in your build; his super-high damage will bite him in the back, and it will soak the damage for you, too.

Super-high damage just makes your Armor of Agathys go away faster; it doesn't increase the damage the enemy takes. No biting in backs will occur.

[Segev]

Super-high damage just makes your Armor of Agathys go away faster; it doesn't increase the damage the enemy takes. No biting in backs will occur.

I thought the enemy took cold damage equal to the damage they inflicted as long as you still had temp HP?

I'm pretty sure the intent is that the maximum is the amount of temp hp it gives (still, massive damage is more of that in a single go), but IIRC, the way it's worded, they take the full damage of their attack as long as you had temp hp still when they hit you. So, 1 hp left, and they hit you for 20 damage? They take 20, because you still had temp hp provided by the spell.

[Fnissalot]

Stealth is next to impossible. Hell, we were just standing near a coastline and 4 trolls and 1 super troll came leaping out of the water. We were 3rd level...with no access to fire or acid damage (all playing silvers, blue's, and greens), and no mage to speak of. It was a massacre that the surviving members had to simply flee from. One character lost her ear, and another had his ribs broken.

But what really got me was when the DM said after the battle, "well, your characters are pretty familiar with the area, so you would have know those trolls were there somewhere."

Like, seriously???! If we knew they were there the whole time, we would have never strayed so close to the coast in the first place!

*sigh*:smallsigh:

5 normal monster manual trolls would be hard or even deadly for 4 characters at level 12 or so if you check on kobold fight club. That is just a death trap.

If that is the way your DM wants to play, then either force information from him before every step or break it is someway.

I take one step, what information on this area does my character know? Ok, I make a perception roll! Rince repeat.

Or, flee from all fights might be an option. Play something that can cast invisible or Misty step or something to get away.

Crowd control spells was how you could cheat fights usually but it doesn't help against cheating GMs. (See sleep and irresistible dance for example)

In the end, he will probably get bored of it if it doesn't work as he expects. Flee from fights, play in a "safe" way with a 10 ft. pole and perception and knowledge rolls at every step.

[ElChad]

The AC is wrong.

Very wrong.

Ooof lol, I will accept wrong, due to an assumption, but I don't think I was that far off.

Assumption :
DM provided the player with a base AC of 13 if everyone played as Dragonborns
Unarmoured Defence is 10 (Increased to 13) + Dex (4) + Con (5)

Math :
13 + 4 + 5 + 2 for Shield

At worst, it would be 21, but if my assumption is correct it would be 24.

[JNAProductions]

Unless the DM has an unusual formula, it's either 13+Dex or 10+Dex+Con. You cannot combine formulas.

Same as if you tried being a Draconic Sorcerer and a Barbarian.

[Willie the Duck]

Math :
13 + 4 + 5 + 2 for Shield

I will repeat:

Much like dragon sorcerer (or lizardfolk) barbarians, the two armor replacing effects do not stack (the both have base armor class that 'equals' a number, not adds to a base). He would have to pick "base AC of 13 + Dex (or base armor if we choose to wear armor)" or "10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier" (test of unarmored defense), whichever is higher.

You do not add dex plus con (plus potentially shield) to 13, you add it to 10, and then compare that to 13 + Dex (plus potentially shield), and take what is higher.

[DerficusRex]

I thought the enemy took cold damage equal to the damage they inflicted as long as you still had temp HP?

I'm pretty sure the intent is that the maximum is the amount of temp hp it gives (still, massive damage is more of that in a single go), but IIRC, the way it's worded, they take the full damage of their attack as long as you had temp hp still when they hit you. So, 1 hp left, and they hit you for 20 damage? They take 20, because you still had temp hp provided by the spell.

Doesn't depend on the incoming damage, it's just a flat 5 (or 10, 15, whatever the temp HP is if it's upcast):

"If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage."

[Segev]

Doesn't depend on the incoming damage, it's just a flat 5 (or 10, 15, whatever the temp HP is if it's upcast):

"If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage."

Ah, my mistake.

[Bahamut7]

If you wanna try to handle this very difficult setup, then I would go with one of three approaches. Tank, Evasion, or Range.

With Tank build the highest AC and HP character you can (probably Barbarian in there for damage resistance).

Evasion could be Rogue, but I would rather go with Monk with the Mobility feat. With Mobility, as long as you try to hit, they can't attack back when you leave their threat range. Plus you get a different type of unarmored defense. Not to mention at level 5 you now have stunning strike which will shut down monsters left and right.

Range, go long range Warlock all day and keep the threats away from you. Repelling and Agonizing Blast will hurt and keep things away, add in Spell Sniper for safer results. On top of this at-will attack you have a huge variety of invocations to keep you safe like at-will levitation.

Also, I noticed earlier, but Crits on a skill check are not a guaranteed success unless the DM has stated they are.

[Bugbean]

Well, good news. We talked to the DM, and he was willing to start a new campaign that's just straightforward, PHB D&D. No critical hit chart, no half-dragons, just plain D&D.

Seems like he decided to be reasonable, which I'm grateful for. :)

[Fnissalot]

Well, good news. We talked to the DM, and he was willing to start a new campaign that's just straightforward, PHB D&D. No critical hit chart, no half-dragons, just plain D&D.

Seems like he decided to be reasonable, which I'm grateful for. :)

Nice! Hope you don't meet even 1 troll at level 3 then =)

[MaxWilson]

Nice! Hope you don't meet even 1 troll at level 3 then =)

Or if you do, I hope you have the Mobile feat or Expeditious Retreat so you can kill it. :-)

[Bugbean]

Thanks everyone for being so helpful! You guys and gals really are the best. :)

It looks like I'm off to make a level 1 character for this Sunday! :D

[Unoriginal]

Just make sure he's really ok with that and not forcing himself to please others.

[furby076]

With those stats? Half Dragon Awakened Mind Mystic with the Alert feat. Never be surprised, and mystics have tons of utility, plus some discipline powers that are sweat (cloak of air or something like that...reaction that makes attacks against you at disadvantage).

if you are going heavy armor character, eventually get Adamantine. That material will negate crit

[furby076]

Everyone is playing half dragons. Still dying. The DM also has a habit of overruling results. Like, I rolled a natural 20 on intimidation against a lowly dwarf, and received no information at all. The dwarf just ran to pretty much "tell on us" to a dragon overlord.

Sigh, if he wasn't family, I wouldn't be playing anymore. Seriously not having fun.

Dude, that door swings both ways. If he is family and making the game boring and frustrating, and refuses to change - then he doesn't care about your feelings. If that is the case, why are you bending over for his feelings? You said he is older, so talk to him again and say its not fun to die all the time because of this custom ruling. I don't care if Gary Gygax is the pimp daddy of DND, I'd walk from his table too if it was a crappy game. It's my time and I want to have fun, so should you.

Also, being railroaded "no is not an option"...f that.
For the record "natural 20" on a skill check is not a gaurantee. Nat 20 only helps on attacks. Just like nat 1's on skill checks are not auto failure, it just means you better hope the DM has a low DC to overcome.

[Contrast]

Well, good news. We talked to the DM, and he was willing to start a new campaign that's just straightforward, PHB D&D. No critical hit chart, no half-dragons, just plain D&D.

Seems like he decided to be reasonable, which I'm grateful for. :)

In before the DMPC half-dragon joins the party... :smallbiggrin:

[ImproperJustice]

Glad to hear that he is willing to modify things and make sure everyone is having fun.

Hopefully this experience will overall be a positive and you guys will enjoy years of gaming fun!!

[ubergeek63]

I guess I'm a different kind than most on this thread. I'd kind of get a kick out of trying to beat this insanity, unless it became apparent that he was fudging against me.

But that does mean I would never fight on his terms.

lol you would like the one i am in: DM has EVERYTHING preset and does not pull punches, or nerf yours. so too are the rolls of our dies (ok i admit that was a lame play on a stupid soap opera title).

if we kill a random encounter party that was part of a local bandit camp their numbers are reduced. if we get lucky and kill a leader triple our lvls he spent hours creating, so be it. if we turn away from what he sent us to do, so be it. if the dice land the 1% or less chance of an epic wanderer on a lvl 1 party, so be it.

this is all the result of a predetermined world instead of a module or random rolled on the spot: if we go left instead of right, there is something there already. if a druid wildshapes into an eagle and flies up into the sky, he can see for as far and as well as an eagle could

in one of our campaigns, the party is tasked with taking out a bandit group of 200 give or take bandits in the short term. building a city in the long term. starting at lvl1. and there are kobold and goblin tribes in the area as well. and that is just what we know about

[Kadesh]

It really is very unfun, but the DM is my uncle and I don't want to hurt his feelings. We've already asked if the difficulty could be lowered a little, and he was instantly against it. :(

So, now trying to decide if I should make something insanely OP (which is sounding increasingly impossible), or tell him I quit.

Tell him you want to play to have fun, and despite this being how he used to play, you're just not having fun. Alternatively, pick up an existing module, and say you would like to DM. The Lost Mine of Phandelver has a pretty dangerous battle very early in which he can cut his teeth on. It allows you and your players to see how it "should" be played, i.e, with the intention of it being an introductory module. You can alternatively run some shots through a series of one shots using the Tales of the Yawning Portal. 5E is a very different game to how any other one played, so going into it with a bunch of houserules feels like a mistake.