Wizard multiclass spellbook

[SolvAnt]

Hi playgrounders,
I am a long time forum lurker but this is my very first post.
I have a question about wizards spellbook for characters that multiclass from another class. ''Spellbook'' not being a class feature but a starting equipement I get that you must buy a blank one. But does it mean that you do not get the six first level spells normaly given to level 1 wizards ?
If so do you get two spells from the ''Learning Spells of 1st Level and Higher'' feature.

Thanks
P.s. english is not my first language so if something I wrote is not clear please do tell me.

[SirGraystone]

That would depend of your DM, me I would just let the player have the 6 spells when they buy the spellbook.

[Sigreid]

IMO, the 6 spells are a class feature that I would assume you learn/figure out as you are developing the necessary skills and talents to be a first level wizard.

[Willie the Duck]

From a fan-maintainted wikia (http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Multiclassing)(the 5e srd bounces off our firewall), but I think it is accurate:

"Spells Known and Prepared

You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells.
◾ If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.
◾ Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell.
◾ Similarly, a spellcasting focus, such as a holy symbol, can be used only for the spells from the class associated with that focus. "

The example indicates that you do get the standard allotment of starting spells. Hate that you have to back-extrapolate from an example, but the intent appears pretty clear.

[Toadkiller]

Good first post - I think the developers messed up here and I have not seen it come up before. Agree that you need to get those things that allow the class level to work.

Might be fun to have a short role play quest to get ones book or holy symbol.

[Willie the Duck]

I think the developers messed up here and I have not seen it come up before.

Where did they mess up? I can't confirm that the wikia is accurate to the book, but if it is, it sounds like they not only thought of the situation, but addressed it directly.

[Quoxis]

A) the spell book is a class feature; like a beast master‘s animal companion it can be destroyed and replaced. That it appears on the starting equipment is wonky, but i guess that’s an oversight of the designers.
B) Some campaign book (out of the abyss?) provides a solution for wizards that don’t have access to their book: they can’t prepare new spells but retain the ones they had, e.g. the player decides which ones to use until they can get access to their/another spell book. Multiclassing without one would probably be similar.
C) Xanathar’s guide to everything shows that spell „books“ don’t have to be physical books, a wizard can just as easily inscribe their spells on stones, sheets of metal, beads on a string they carry around, tattooed on the back of the barbarian the wizard is expected to hide behind...

[Naanomi]

I just engineer a way for them to get it when it comes up (and it doesn’t often... I don’t see a lot of people multiclass into wizard). I try not to just handwave it, but much like Warlock patrons; I try to quickly facilitate the multiclass with plot so as to never force a ‘delay’ in the player’s leveling up choices

[Willie the Duck]

A) the spell book is a class feature; like a beast master‘s animal companion it can be destroyed and replaced. That it appears on the starting equipment is wonky, but i guess that’s an oversight of the designers.

The designers list what to do when multiclassing into a wizard after starting right in the multiclass rules section. Literally to be in the position for this to be relevant, you have to read this section of the book to find out what to do (and, conveniently, an issue that will never come up for those who do not use the optional multiclass rules will never get accidentally confused by it since it is confined to that optional subsection of text). As far as I see it, this is not only them not making an oversight, but them doing their jobs near-perfectly (and better than their overall track record {grumble grumble grumble}. I do not get why people think this is problematic. Unlike many other situations, they actually put in the rules exactly what to do in the situation described by the OP.

[Quoxis]

The designers list what to do when multiclassing into a wizard after starting right in the multiclass rules section. Literally to be in the position for this to be relevant, you have to read this section of the book to find out what to do (and, conveniently, an issue that will never come up for those who do not use the optional multiclass rules will never get accidentally confused by it since it is confined to that optional subsection of text). As far as I see it, this is not only them not making an oversight, but them doing their jobs near-perfectly (and better than their overall track record {grumble grumble grumble}. I do not get why people think this is problematic. Unlike many other situations, they actually put in the rules exactly what to do in the situation described by the OP.

So please tell me where the rules state that a book appears out of thin air in your inventory, i must’ve overread it.
They do adress that you have 6 spells in your book, but the exemplary ranger doesn’t have a spellbook before multiclassing, so it must come from somewhere. That’s what i brought up examples for:
A) you get a book from wherever, it just appears because it’s a class feature.
B) you can inscribe 6 spells in a book at a later time, but are stuck with your 2 starting spells until you do so.
C) you inscribe 6 spells wherever you have the space needed to do it.

[NaughtyTiger]

Where did they mess up?

Not sure they messed up, but there is a disconnect that is highlighted in this case.

I pick up a level of wizard in a dungeon, but no spellbook.
I find a duergar merchant, buy a book, and poof, the six spells that I learned are instantly in the book.

when i level up 2 new spells just appear in the book.
i don't have to copy them in, i don't have spent materials, ink, or downtime days.

but if i am copying a spell that someone else already worked out the intricacies of... that costs materials, ink and downtime days to read their chicken scratching.

[Willie the Duck]

So please tell me where the rules state that a book appears out of thin air in your inventory, i must’ve overread it.

I never said it did. I am not the straw man you are looking for.

However, on further reflection, I think it actually does say that (indirectly). This being one of those 'strict-RAW-reading-is-nonsensical' results like 3e's drown-healing. But looking at "you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells" boy, that sure does imply that you get a spellbook when you pick up a wizard level. Perhaps the assumption is that you will level up somewhere where you can buy one, but that would come down to gaming style.

However, I still don't think of this as an oversight. Maybe an over generalized assumption. This is on the level of previous editions where you got followers or a keep at name level but it didn't provide rules for what to do if you leveled while travelling across the astral plane or the like (far from anywhere where a keep or followers might be). Comparatively speaking, these multiclass rules are clear, concise, explicit, and actually answer questions like do you get the 2+int backlog of spells at all. That is worlds away from early multi- and dual-classing rules where nearly none of ones' reasonable questions were answered. From when one rounds for fractional HP, to do you track the fractions, to what if you have a 17+ Con (which in AD&D, only gave additional bonus hp to fighter types), to what happens when you hit one classes' level limits. Virtually none of that was answered. Compared to that, this is amazing. So I really am disheartened to hear this amazing work of designer diligence be called an oversight.




A) you get a book from wherever, it just appears because it’s a class feature.
B) you can inscribe 6 spells in a book at a later time, but are stuck with your 2 starting spells until you do so.
C) you inscribe 6 spells wherever you have the space needed to do it.

Hmm. Okay. I think my RAW reading is A with modification: you get a book from wherever, it just appears, not because it’s a class feature, but because the MC section declares that you have one. How I would adjudicate it in-campaign would be closer to B, since that makes more sense.

[SolvAnt]

Thanks for the many replys. As I see it now it is either the RAI point of view: you get all the spells on some homemade spellbook. Or the DM is nice enough to give you one.
Or the RAW point of view that has some unthought-of points.
I was under the impression that fighter 1-2/wizard X was a commun build. I am wrong? If so then many players must have faced this problem before. In home 5E games I get that RAI is law but what happens to AL games?

I cannot ''ask my DM'' because I don't have one and this is theorycraft I am doing.

And for the example mentioned in the multiclass rules nothing indicates that the ranger/wizard did not start of as a wizard. So I don't think that we can extrapolate an answer from this.

[Slybluedemon]

Thanks for the many replys. As I see it now it is either the RAI point of view: you get all the spells on some homemade spellbook. Or the DM is nice enough to give you one.
Or the RAW point of view that has some unthought-of points.
I was under the impression that fighter 1-2/wizard X was a commun build. I am wrong? If so then many players must have faced this problem before. In home 5E games I get that RAI is law but what happens to AL games?

I cannot ''ask my DM'' because I don't have one and this is theorycraft I am doing.

And for the example mentioned in the multiclass rules nothing indicates that the ranger/wizard did not start off as a wizard. So I don't think that we can extrapolate an answer from this.

I would just do some DM handwaving, Next enemy had a spellbook on them, Look all the 6 spells you wanted are in there. I would require some RP "to make out what the book says" but not much. I would hate to lock out a character from their abilites because they didn't have a spellbook.

In my games, you have to "unlock" the multiclass. Finding a spellbook beforehand would open up the gate to wizard multiclassing. But that's just how I see it.

[Ganymede]

Additionally, a PC considering a multiclass into Wizard would likely have acquired a spellbook (and other wizardly accoutrements) well before he or she actually earned that first level. "I want my dabblings to progress into full wizardry" is a character arc, not something that happens when that blinking gold asterisk appears next to the experience tally on a character sheet.

[Cerefel]

It's stated in the PHB that a spellbook could just be a collection of loose notes; it doesn't need to be an actual book. It would be reasonable to assume the character wrote out spellcasting notes while they were studying wizardry, so by the time they actually have a class level they already have their "spellbook" ready to go.

[JeffreyGator]

Playing through Phandelver, my bard was intending to multi-class into one level of wizard but this couldn't happen until a spellbook became available. The first wizard got away, we only looted some stuff from the friendly necromancer and as a result the first book acquired previously belonged to a 5th level drow caster. It had a few more than six spells in it including 2nd and 3rd level spells.

It worked out that there was an in-game impetus for the MC switch.