Help with a Pistolero at first level

[Glarnog]

Need help with a new Pistolero. Any advice or help. Basically at first level it seems way too expensive to rapid shot and having to use alchemical cartridges.

I've never had much experience with Pathfinder and its been many years since I played much 3.?. Starting a new campaign, making a first level human pistolero. Ultimately I'd like him to duel wield at some point. I'm not sure what weapons I can count on finding in game. So basic build will be around just the pistol. I hope to get revolvers or something at some point, but not sure how the Dm would handle such.

The build points are pretty nuts. 30 to spend on ability buy. 2 free feats at first, 2 traits, and free skills: 2 profession, 2 knowledge, and 2 any skill. The 2 any skill become free class skills. It is my understanding that these 6 will get free bumps every level. Dm said we are using Emerging Firearms.

So far:

First level Pistolero, Human
str 10
dex 18
con 14
int 14
Wis 16
Cha 10

Skills:
Acrobatics
Craft Alchemy
Handle Animal
Heal
Knowledge Engineering
Knowledge Local
Perception
Profession Engineer
Profession ? "Law Dog", Herbalist, Gambler, Detective
Ride
Stealth
Survival
Swim

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Reload
Rapid Shot

The setting is kind of steam punk fantasy western. Basic back ground my character is looking for his missing littlie sister, his family doesn't care.

I'm not hard on most of the skills.

Main issue right now is expenditure of money on shots for the pistol. Can be over 12 g a round, and that adds up. Should I use a bow? Just suck up being out side the 20' range? use a bow for a bit? or what?
Also could use help with which traits to take.

Thanks all.

[Geddy2112]

As a human, dual wielding pistols(short of revolvers) will be difficult. Gun twirling (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gun%20Twirling) will do it, as will two levels in juggler bard. The former is incredibly feat intensive; weapon focus, dazzling display, quick draw, gun twirling. You also need the TWF tree(twf, improved, greater). A tall order even for a class with bonus feats. You probably want deadly aim in the build as well.

I don't think you need or want profession engineer when you have knowledge:engineering. Profession is a meh skill, even getting it for free, unless it has a true niche other skills won't fill. Gambler is pretty good as is herbalist; I would probably go with those. Gambler might also be worth it considering the setting and using sleight of hand is basically cheating. IIRC herbalist can recharge a healers kit which is really nice at lower levels. Treat deadly wounds is a dc20 but worth the attempt, probably even worth buying surgeons tools.
Handle animal, swim, ride, and climb are really only worth a single rank, survival is arguably in the same boat. Craft alchemy only needs one rank to make alchemical bullets and does not require a check, so only put more ranks here if you want to make other alchemical swag. With a single rank you can take 10 and get a 16, so anything with a DC15 is already within your reach. For your 2 floating skills that become class skills and get free bumps, any big 4 knowledge the party is lacking is worth a look. Use magic device is one of the best skills and might be worth it as well.

Crafting your own alchemical shots halves the cost, so after level 1 you should be okay on ammo. Just carry a sling and a club as emergency backup weapons-both are free and slings are weightless.

For traits, anything that boosts your initiative (reactionary) by +2 is arguably the best. Lessons of chalidria giving a reroll to a save once a day. Any trait that gives rerolls is good. For a gunslinger, never stop shooting and just like new are both pretty solid.

[Galacktic]

The core thing to remember is that at first level, you can't do multi-attacks anyway without rapid shot so what I did as a Pistolero was just not use alchemical cartridges until 3rd when I picked up the feat. By then, I had enough gold to make my own ammo for pennies without impacting myself too much.

Gunsmithing is important too!

E:


Crafting Ammunition: You can craft bullets, pellets, and black powder for a cost in raw materials equal to 10% of the price. If you have at least 1 rank in Craft (alchemy), you can craft alchemical cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the cartridge. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft metal cartridges for a cost in raw materials equal to half the cost of the cartridge. Crafting bullets, black powder, or cartridges takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of ammunition (minimum 1 day).

So you can make ammo for 1/10th the price until you get enough gold to regularly make alchemical cartridges! If you wanna get started with cartridges and rapid shot early, you could also use the trait Rich Parents for 900 starting gold which'll allow you to turn your battered pistol into masterwork -and- make a decent chunk of ammo while you're at it!

And the other part of Gunsmithing is important too. You gain both of these as a Gunslinger!



Crafting Firearms: You can craft any early firearm for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. At your GM’s discretion, you can craft advanced firearms for a cost in raw materials equal to half the price of the firearm. Crafting a firearm in this way takes 1 day of work for every 1,000 gp of the firearm’s price (minimum 1 day).

So if the DM allows, you could absolutely make a revolver later!

[Andor13]

If Path of War is on the table you could start as a Gunsmoke Mystic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/mystic/archetypes/gunsmoke-mystic/) instead for unlimited free ammo.

[Fizban]

Considering my stance on the Pathfinder gun rules (in short: they're terrible, and come to think of it, isn't there a focus on rapid-fire with these guns that are specifically designed to be difficult and expensive to rapid-fire?), my opinion may not be desired here. That said, I'm seeing two words in that description which tell me you're using the wrong gun rules: steam-punk, and western.

Westerns, you know with lever action rifles and revolvers, which use cartridge ammunition which is commonplace and the cost of which is not considered significant? Pathfinder early firearms are not the correct rules for a western.

Steam-punk, which handwaves all sorts of modern or even sci-fi level technology as "steam powered" and any guns present are on the same level? Nope, not Pathfinder early firearms either.

[grarrrg]

So you can make ammo for 1/10th the price until you get enough gold to regularly make alchemical cartridges! If you wanna get started with cartridges and rapid shot early, you could also use the trait Rich Parents for 900 starting gold which'll allow you to turn your battered pistol into masterwork -and- make a decent chunk of ammo while you're at it!

...

So if the DM allows, you could absolutely make a revolver later!

A Double-Barrel, or Pepperbox are decent stepping stones towards a Revolver.

An easily overlooked option is to carry BOTH types of ammunition.
Start every fight with the cheap-stuff loaded in your weapon. Depending on how fights flow, you may find opportunities to reload with cheap-stuff mid-fight as well.
Save the expensive stuff for when you actually need it (at least until your WBL catches up).



isn't there a focus on rapid-fire with these guns that are specifically designed to be difficult and expensive to rapid-fire?
The rules make it difficult to rapid-fire. The rules also make it difficult to Two-Weapon.
But, Guns don't produce stupid amounts of damage per shot, so the rules make "1 attack per round" a horrible option if you want to be effective.

Either way you need to invest in -something-.
Rapid Reload+Cartridges for an actual Full Attack?
Vital Strikes Feats (or Gunslinger 7) for a pseudo-Full Attack?



I'm seeing two words in that description which tell me you're using the wrong gun rules: steam-punk, and western.
The OP did say "kind of steam punk fantasy western". We don't know how much of what is actually going on.
All we know is "emerging guns" is the main deal.