Help a noob be a Conquest Pally

[ToastyTobasco]

First time playing a paladin and the flavor of Conquest is just awesome and I have some questions.

I'm kind of confused at why many guides are saying to bump Charisma as far as I can for conquest. Is it all for the channel divinity? If I understand CD right, I only get it once per S/L rest. Are there more methods for a pally to cause fear? Command maybe?

Also for getting the most out of my character early on, would Half-elf outdo Variant Human? Sentinel and Shield Master would be the feats I look at for V. Human but Half-elf could get 16 in several stats or even 17 in CHA. Dragonborn kinda gets it all stat wise could also open the way for Dragon Fear Feat.

Sword and Board vs Dual Wielding as a Pally?

Would Sentinel feat be kinda wasted with the Aura or make it awesome?

[Slybluedemon]

First time playing a paladin and the flavor of Conquest is just awesome and I have some questions.

I'm kind of confused at why many guides are saying to bump Charisma as far as I can for conquest. Is it all for the channel divinity? If I understand CD right, I only get it once per S/L rest. Are there more methods for a pally to cause fear? Command maybe?

Also for getting the most out of my character early on, would Half-elf outdo Variant Human? Sentinel and Shield Master would be the feats I look at for V. Human but Half-elf could get 16 in several stats or even 17 in CHA. Dragonborn kinda gets it all stat wise but its not what I want for this character.

Sword and Board vs Dual Wielding as a Pally?

Would Sentinel feat be kinda wasted with the Aura or make it awesome?

The Reason why people say to bump Cha is that of spells and Spell DC. The higher the better.

V Human is amazing, a free feat is great. My advice is to do what you want to do.

You will need to pick up the War Caster feat to cast spells with a sword and board and dual wielding.
With War Caster, your sword had can do your S component and your Holy Symbly on your shield can do your M component.

But really, you should do what you want with this character, if i was in your shoes i would V Human or a monster race but that's just me.

[Corran]

First time playing a paladin and the flavor of Conquest is just awesome and I have some questions.

I'm kind of confused at why many guides are saying to bump Charisma as far as I can for conquest. Is it all for the channel divinity? If I understand CD right, I only get it once per S/L rest.
Partly it's for the CD (and you are right to understand that you get it back after a s/l rest once you use it). It's a very strong power this CD. Especially once you combine it with the level 7 aura. Another reason is for the spell save DC. I think spell save DC is a bit more important for conquest paladins than for paladins of other oaths. And this is because of how you can combine a couple of your spells with the level 7 aura again. And it's also because of aura of protection that you get at level 6.
Bottom line, conquest paladins act much more as a tank controller than as a damager dealer, and since strength does not contribute to much else other than athletics checks (which for the most part aim at exacting control, which you can already do in a much more efficient way, especially after you get the level 7 aura), I would say that it is better to prioritize charisma over strength. Because this oath's real strengths lie in battlefield control and supporting/tanking. (Personally I think that prioritizing charisma over strength is better for the other oaths as well, save of the oath of vengeance).


Are there more methods for a pally to cause fear? Command maybe?
Command does not cause fear. Spells that do? Off the top of my head, the spell fear, which conquest paladins get through their oath at level 9 (ie 3rd level spell), and ofc wrathful smite, which is a 1st level spell, and IMO one of the best paladin spells generally, even moreso for an oath of conquest paladin (again, due to the level 7 aura).


Also for getting the most out of my character early on, would Half-elf outdo Variant Human? Sentinel and Shield Master would be the feats I look at for V. Human but Half-elf could get 16 in several stats or even 17 in CHA. Dragonborn kinda gets it all stat wise could also open the way for Dragon Fear Feat.
For early on? I would go with vhuman for the feat. And odd score in charisma does not help you anyway, unless you are planning on taking a half feat at some point that boosts charisma, and between the charisma bumps and other important feats, I am not sure if any half feat would be a good idea optimization-wise. Though the diplomat feat from UA is a really good one, assuming UA is allowed. Shield master works great with your 7 level aura against feared enemies, meaning that they will roll with disadvantage their check and once prone, they wont be able to get back up due to the movement restriction inflicted by your aura. It's a great feat for conquest paladins and it absolutely plays to the strengths of this oath. Yet, if you are in a group where the main damage comes from range, it would be a good idea to avoid it. Optimized conquest paladins tend to work better in melee-heavy groups.


Sword and Board vs Dual Wielding as a Pally?
S&B. TWF does not have much to offer to paladins in general, and conquest paladins are no exception.


Would Sentinel feat be kinda wasted with the Aura or make it awesome?
Sentinel is a very good feat. It's true though that it overlaps significantly with your aura. I would probably avoid it cause the competition it has is big, and the overlap it has with the aura is not doing it any favours. If you do end up taking it though, it wont be all that bad, you will still get to see it in action every now and then. Hope that helps.

[ToastyTobasco]

Partly it's for the CD (and you are right to understand that you get it back after a s/l rest once you use it). It's a very strong power this CD. Especially once you combine it with the level 7 aura. Another reason is for the spell save DC. I think spell save DC is a bit more important for conquest paladins than for paladins of other oaths. And this is because of how you can combine a couple of your spells with the level 7 aura again. And it's also because of aura of protection that you get at level 6.
Bottom line, conquest paladins act much more as a tank controller than as a damager dealer, and since strength does not contribute to much else other than athletics checks (which for the most part aim at exacting control, which you can already do in a much more efficient way, especially after you get the level 7 aura), I would say that it is better to prioritize charisma over strength. Because this oath's real strengths lie in battlefield control and supporting/tanking. (Personally I think that prioritizing charisma over strength is better for the other oaths as well, save of the oath of vengeance).


Command does not cause fear. Spells that do? Off the top of my head, the spell fear, which conquest paladins get through their oath at level 9 (ie 3rd level spell), and ofc wrathful smite, which is a 1st level spell, and IMO one of the best paladin spells generally, even moreso for an oath of conquest paladin (again, due to the level 7 aura).


For early on? I would go with vhuman for the feat. And odd score in charisma does not help you anyway, unless you are planning on taking a half feat at some point that boosts charisma, and between the charisma bumps and other important feats, I am not sure if any half feat would be a good idea optimization-wise. Though the diplomat feat from UA is a really good one, assuming UA is allowed. Shield master works great with your 7 level aura against feared enemies, meaning that they will roll with disadvantage their check and once prone, they wont be able to get back up due to the movement restriction inflicted by your aura. It's a great feat for conquest paladins and it absolutely plays to the strengths of this oath. Yet, if you are in a group where the main damage comes from range, it would be a good idea to avoid it. Optimized conquest paladins tend to work better in melee-heavy groups.


S&B. TWF does not have much to offer to paladins in general, and conquest paladins are no exception.


Sentinel is a very good feat. It's true though that it overlaps significantly with your aura. I would probably avoid it cause the competition it has is big, and the overlap it has with the aura is not doing it any favours. If you do end up taking it though, it wont be all that bad, you will still get to see it in action every now and then. Hope that helps.
These really do help. Thank you. I think Shield Master would be a good choice starting out and Sentinel later if I really, really needed it. The group will be a Wizard, Druid, Ranger, Fighter and myself. No clue if they are going melee or ranged. Campaign is CoS

The other thing I was curious about would be a 1 level dip into Hexblade for all the goodies it drops. Possibly somewhere at levels 7-9
as MC'ing below 5 seems to really hurt fun wise.

[Corran]

The other thing I was curious about would be a 1 level dip into Hexblade for all the goodies it drops. Possibly somewhere at levels 7-9
as MC'ing below 5 seems to really hurt fun wise.
There is significant overlap (such as armor proficiencies and armor of agathys), but you do get some good things, like the increase in crit chance, getting to attack using charisma and I think the shield spell too? These are good stuff to have. Not sure if it's worth to grab that level, but if you do, I would advise going first up to paladin 7 for the aura, or even up to paladin 9 for access to 3rd level spells (fear, aura of vitality, revivify, dispel magic, etc).

Edit: I just had another look at the oath of conquest. That CD is seriously nerfed! Still very strong, but not as it used to be in UA. So, upon having a second look, I think I can safely say that the best thing this oath allows you to do, is to combine the aura of conquest with the fear spell. So whatever multiclassing thoughts you have, I would advise delaying them until at least you hit paladin 9. To make the above strategy work (ie fear + aura of conquest), you need 2 things. A good spell save DC (ie charisma bumps) and a good concentration check (ie aura of protection = charisma bumps, and con save proficiency = resilient con). So I would say that the best thing to do would probably be to start as vhuman, grab resilient con as your starting feat and bump charisma at levels 4 and 8. You could perhaps grab a feat (most likely either shield master or PAM) and delay one of your charisma bumps by 4 levels, but I am not sure if it is worth it. After paladin 9, you have many routes you can follow. Carrying on as paladin has many perks, as there are several good class and oath features, but there is also value in multiclassing. I mentioned the advantages of 1 level of hexblade above (I think I forgot to mention that the 1st level spell slot that recharges on a short rest plays well with shield). And there could also be value in grabbing at least 3 levels in sorcerer, for shield, better spell slot progression (plays well with AoA), and few other perks, most important of which would be getting access to metamagic and especially the careful spell, which will allow you to cast fear (which is the backbone of your strategy) without worrying about catching allies in its burst.

Edit 2: I will just leave 2 posts by Malisteen here cause I find them very informative (they aree replies to another poster)
If by 'more casting' you mean 'favor cha over strength (or dex), and spend your spell slots casting spells instead of smiting', then yes, that is in fact exactly what oath of conquest wants to do, at least mechanically. If by 'more casting' you mean 'pretend to be a wizard or cleric, and use spells for most of your actions', then no, you won't have the cantrips & spell slots for it, at least not without heavy multiclassing, and even then you kind of need to wait out aura of conquest before jumping out if you're taking oath of conquest at all, by which point you'll have extra attack and cantrip based default actions lose their luster then.

But yeah, Conquest Paladins, from level 7, and especially from level 9, are controller/tanks first, and do regular paladinning mostly as a fallback against fear-immune foes.

Most fights you'll open with one of your hard-to-shake fear spells (Wrathful Smite at lower levels & against single targets, Fear at higher levels & against groups). Maybe the channel divinity instead against a pile of mooks with poor will saves, or against groups before you have Fear.

Then position yourself to apply your aura to the most/best targets that failed your save.

Then just stand there. This is your primary contribution to the combat, and it's great. Like a controller wizard, a single spell can win an encounter, and for you often will. Everything else you do is gravey. So you'll lock one or more enemies down while imposing disadvantage, and your party will deal with the encounter piecemeal, kill your locked down things with reach and range. You'll spend the rest of the enounter making attacks, maybe cast spiritual weapon for minor action attacks as well if need be. Maybe shove a target prone if you or another party melee character could use the advantage, though be careful with that, targets will already have disadvantage on their attacks due to frighten, and you don't want to put disadvantage on party ranged/reach attacks. If you crit, maybe pop a low level spell on a smite. Maybe not even then.

Enemies are sorely motivated to attack you, since getting you to fail a concentration save is about the only way to get free from your control. Otherwise, escaping from wrathful smite is hard (wisdom checks, not saves, so made at disadvantage) and escaping from fear is practically impossible under your aura (no follow up save at all until they break line of sight). So they'll want to attack you, might only even be able to attack you if they're melee range only, but they do so against your probably best-in-party AC while attacking at disadvantage due to frighten, so... yeah. fight on lockdown. heal up any damage you do take after with lay on hands.

there's still plenty to do while mopping up, but your big contribution really does come down to aura positioning and a spell slot or so per encounter. Which means getting targets to fail those initial saves is your first concern, so charisma comes before attack stat. If you deal less damage or miss a few attacks after the situation is on lockdown, then oh well. The situation is still on lockdown regardless.

Gotta watch out for fear-immune creatures, for those with sky high will saves or epic defenses, and casting type enemies who attack at range by provoking saves instead of in melee (which you'll control by neutralizing their speed) or even ranged attack rolls (where even if they can still attack your friends, they'll do so with disadvantage). Mage Slayer might theoretically be worth picking up eventually, if you weren't so starved for asi's to begin with.


Anyway, that's all a long way of saying that yeah, conquest paladin's main contribution is through spellcasting, even if they don't actually cast all that many spells in most encounters.
Tiefling should be fine. I'm not sure about the racial feats, though. If they up charisma, ok, but that is your priority with conquest.

CoS runs 1 to 10ish, so a lot of your game time will be in the levels 1 to 6 range, in which a Conquest Paladin is mostly just a slightly suboptimal sword & board paladin (in that you're prioritizing cha over attack stat, not a major problem but will put you at a slight attack and damage deficit compared to other oaths over several levels when weapon attacking is the majority of what you do). When you get 2nd level spells, spiritual weapon will help shore things up and give you a use for your bonus actions.

None of that's a bad thing, mind, just-paladin is already one of the better classes, so you're fine. It's worth experimenting with frighten some during those levels just to familiarize yourself with the rules, with your key means of inflicting the condition being your channel divinity (wide area, no concentration, but allows follow up saves every round) and the spell Wrathful Smite (single target, eats concentration, but after the initial save requires checks instead of saves to break out of - much harder considering frighten condition gives disadvantage on ability checks while within sight of the source of your fear).

Before your aura, the condition applies disadvantage to attacks and checks, and prevents the target from getting closer to you, so careful positioning will also prevent them from getting closer to your more vulnerable allies. On the down side, it encourages enemies to scatter, which can be a big hassle.

At level 7, everything changes. Having the frightened condition also reduce speed to zero within aura range is huge. The worst part of frighten - scattering - is gone. Targets can't get out of sight of you. They can't run away and wait to save. They can't go melee your friends. If you knock them prone, they can't even stand up.

At level 9 you get fear - an aoe frighten cone that allows no follow up saves at all unless the enemy gets out of your line of sight, which they probably can't do in your aura.

So against scrubs, you open with your CD. Against single targets, Wrathful Smite. And against harder groups or mixes of stronger and weaker enemies - or just in doubt - you open with fear. Catch at least a third of the fight in lockdown and that's basically a won fight.


Practically speaking, your first level slots are for Wrathful Smite, your second level slots are for Spiritual Weapon (or bringing back your steed if it dies), and your third level slots are for Fear. You only do the normal paladin things (Bless, Aid, regular Divine Smite) before level 7, or when facing an enemy that is immune to fear.


Playing in the higher levels of CoS, you are likely to run into a few enemies that are immune to fear. Make friends with the party loremaster, and when in doubt ask them if to knowledge check for condition immunities before burning spells if your DM does that. Make sure your DM is aware that undead do not have blanket immunity to fear in 5e. Some individual undead are immune - revenants and the like - but your bog standard skeletons, zombies, and vampires are all vulnerable to the condition.

A single level dip in hexblade can help shore up your options in fights where your primary gimmick isn't applicable, but in a 1-10 game it does really eat into the number of sessions where you'd have oath of conquest up, so it's probably better to skip it and stick to pally. Particularly given the strength requirement for multiclassing.


In general, your ASIs should be spent raising your cha mod until it hits maximum, and other decisions should go into raising your durability second and weapon damage third. If given a choice between a +1 weapon and a +1 shield, you should probably take the latter, particularly if there are other melee weapon users in the party who don't already have magic weapons.

If the character goes on other adventures into higher levels, you'll want to look into shoring up your concentration saves after you max out charisma, with warcaster (if you multiclass sorcerer or hexblade for booming blade & shield) or resilient Con (if you don't). Decent con and good cha means your saves will be ok by default, but once trapped in your aura most enemies rely on you failing concentration to escape, so you want to make that as unlikely as possible. If you're having trouble hitting something, try shoving it over for advantage, and if you still miss, so be it. If it's stuck in your aura, you're doing your job just fine. If you absolutely need to hit, there's always your other channel divinity, once you have a few spell slots for Fear you don't need your CD to inflict frighten as much. Only after that would I consider other priorities, like increasing attack stat or going after other useful feats like sentinel (better tanking, esp against fear immune targets) or mage slayer (enemies that force saves instead of attacking don't suffer as much under frighten) or shield master or the like.

But if you stay in curse of strahd, you'll never get to levels where you have to worry about doing anything other than raising charisma with your asis. Well, unless you dip hexblade, then it's worth sacrificing a bit of cha to get warcaster earlier.

[CTurbo]

Don't multiclass! Not every build has to be a fancy multiclass build. Pure Conquest would be great.

Vhuman vs Half-Elf? Vhuman is typically better from levels 1-4 but then Half-Elf is probably better after that unless you're build just requires a LOT of feats. I don't like not having darkvision and Half-Elf gives you that AND another skill.

Dragonborn make great Conquest Paladins. The Dragon Fear feat is really flavorful for a Conquest although it does allow for a save after damage.

But the real star race for Conquests IMO is the Fallen Aasimar who just seems absolutely perfect for the role. They have a perfect racial ability that meshes perfectly, and several other features that are perfect for Paladins in general.

Sentinel and Shield Master are both great feats for a Conquest, and so is the Menacing feat which gives you Expertise in Intimidation and yet another way of causing fear. Also +1 to Cha as well.

But under point buy or standard array, it's REALLY tough to get 3 feats with a Paladin. Paladins really need the stats. Feats allow you to do more things you couldn't already do but the higher your stats are, the more effective your build will be mechanically speaking.

So do you want to build a Damaging Conquest? Or a Control Conquest? If you want to be DPR focused then Str will be slightly more important than Cha. The opposite would be true if you want to be more for control with your fear aura.

I would take Menacing first either way. Sentinel would be my pick for damage, Shield Master would be my pick for control. I probably wouldn't take both Sentinel and Shield Master. I know Sentinel offers control too, but I mainly love it for the extra damage of a reliable reaction attack that will be 2d8+Str+ possible smites after level 11. It really adds a lot of damage.


I would personally start Fallen Aasimar 16 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 8 Wis, 17 Cha and take Menacing at 4, and +2 Str at 8, Sentinel at 12