I found something that is crazy good ( I think )

[Hunterx]

So I have been looking and looking for something unique and that we have never had in out games and that will be a lot of fun to play, well I think I have just found it and it is going to be glorious if I can get some help to make this even better then I think it can be it would be great.

So here is the idea of the build since i love the marshal I will be using marshal as one of the classes and I know all about the dip for the marshal but I think it can be better then just a dip and here is how. The auras are all untyped wich means that they all stack ontop of each other. So how do we get alot of auras to stack on top of each other well a team full of marshals would do it but that is not practical and no one would ever play that so how about you makeing your own team of marshals. So know you know the foundation behind the build lets dive deeper into it and see how we can make this glorious.

So we will have to start with Human i think as it will allow for the one issue of multiclassing and it will also allow for the extra feat and the skill points.

Human Marshal 4 ( yes that is not a typo)
Next class is We-Jen 16 (or we-jen plus full caster progression class)

The key level here is however level 7 spells you need to have level 7 spells, so lets look at the level 7 spells there are some good ones and all but there is one cry one that cry one is very simply body outside of body. That spell states that you create one clone for every 5 levels as written it does not say caster level or class level it just says 5/levels so that means that you can cast 5 clones.

Those clones as stated from the spell have: These duplicates share all your ability scores, personality, class levels, skills, feats, and memories. and They can do anything you can, except cast spells or use spell-completion or spell-trigger items. since auras are not spells they can use them.

So if you have 5 clones all with 5 minor auras and 5 major auras and 5 move extra move actions this is going to get silly very quick.

So lets say that we have a cha score of a modist 16 for a +3, that is +3 *6 for a +18 to what ever your 2 minor auras are and a you pick and since you have +5 from all the major auras you have 6 move actions that you can use to close the gap to make a full round attack or move out of the area and cast spells. Now how do we make this even sillier and more fun then what i think it can and will be? Advice would be great, feats are the area that maybe the hardest part I wil need help with because I do not play arcane casters much. Items would also be good. Right now the char will be lv 8 but I want to plan ahead.


So remember please Marshal 4 and We-Jen 16 (or full caster levels PRG) right now char is at will be starting at level 8 which I will be starting out at 1 marshal 7 we-jen or we-jen plus full caster ?

Feats 1 3 6 9 12 15 18 ( bonus feat human, bonus metamagic feat We-Jen) flaw flaw

Stats: ( since we roll 4 dice and drop the lowerst and reroll all 1s my stats numbers are as follows. are as follows)
17 17 14 18 18 13
Str 13 Dex 17 Con 17 Int 20 Wis 14 Cha 18
level 4 - 8 int for 20

One extra thing we are in forgotten realms if that helps


Than you play ground for any assistance you provide.

[16bearswutIdo]

From Marshal:

>All bonuses granted by a marshal's auras are circumstance bonuses that do not stack with each other.

>A character can take only one extra move action per round. (In other words, two marshals can't use this ability on the same ally in the same round.) If an ally chooses not to take the extra move action, it is lost

Sorry, friend. No stacking auras.

[Darrin]

No stacking auras.

You could, however, stack a marshal aura with a draconic aura (Dragon Shaman/Dragon Lord). Take the Duplicate Draconic Aura feat and you could stack up three auras.

[Hunterx]

I thought they were untyped

[The Viscount]

I thought they were untyped

Regrettably, they are not. If you'd like to see a full build that uses body outside body and grant move action to hilarious result, check out Santa Claus by rockdeworld (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14384481&postcount=71), from an old old Iron chef round.

[BowStreetRunner]

I thought they were untypedThe description of each individual ability doesn't mention the type. The first quote from above is printed just before the list of auras. The second quote from above is from the last paragraph of the Grant Move Action description.

[Hunterx]

The description of each individual ability doesn't mention the type. The first quote from above is printed just before the list of auras. The second quote from above is from the last paragraph of the Grant Move Action description.

yeah I seen it and it made me mad I thought I had something there. plus it was not just the move actions it was the bonus to INT and or DEX or what ever,

But if I We-Jen 13 which is what is needed for the body outside of body and marshal 7 that will give me 4 minor Auras and 2 major auras.

I could just make three clones have them activate the aura I want them to and have the Cha modifier to 4 different stats plus I could have a +2 to 2 different abilities with the major auras.

plus I could take the draconic aura and double draconic aura., now looking at these right off the bat they seem to be untyped but I will have to read the book to make sure they are.

[Hunterx]

OK quick question if you were to cast giant size then cast body outside of body would the clones take on your size plus all the extra goodness from giant size ?

[Kelb_Panthera]

OK quick question if you were to cast giant size then cast body outside of body would the clones take on your size plus all the extra goodness from giant size ?

DM call. It comes down to how you interpret the phrase "indistinguishable duplicates." Some GMs will include spell effects, some won't, based on the logic that your duplicates would be distinguishable if the spell effects weren't in place.

Given that the non-magical gear they're sporting can already make them distinguishable in that regard and the sheer insanity that comes from duplicating whole buff suites, I'm in the "no" camp on that one, personally.

[Hunterx]

DM call. It comes down to how you interpret the phrase "indistinguishable duplicates." Some GMs will include spell effects, some won't, based on the logic that your duplicates would be distinguishable if the spell effects weren't in place.

Given that the non-magical gear they're sporting can already make them distinguishable in that regard and the sheer insanity that comes from duplicating whole buff suites, I'm in the "no" camp on that one, personally.

thanks after reading that I will have to say they do. and with that would VOP start to become something you could add to make this even more unique. Since your clones get all your feats and abilities aside from casting spells. ? This would turn all of their weapons into magical weapons just because of the feat not that they are magical, plus all those good exalted feats you can add to these duplicates that stay around for a full 10 rounds is just something that could be very good.

[Cosi]

Yes, body outside body + non-casting abilities is really good. Marshall is kind of a crummy pick though. You don't get any good standard actions for your clones, you're losing a lot of caster levels, there's no Theurge PrC for you to go into, there aren't that many good Marshall auras, and finally Wu Jen is an INT caster and Marshall needs you to boost your CHA. Also, Persistent body outside body is definitely worth grabbing just for ease of use. My preferred builds for the combo are either Wu Jen/Warblade/Incantatrix/Jade Phoenix Mage for a gish that gets quadruple white raven tactics or Wu Jen/Binder/Anima Mage for a more utility focused build (with that build, I would recommend going Wizard and using a trick of your choice to get body outside body, but thats not essential). Really almost any combo in the form, Wu Jen + Non-Caster + Theurge becomes devastatingly effective once you hit 7th level spells. You could even go Soulcaster or Arcane Trickster if you wanted to.

[Hunterx]

Yes, body outside body + non-casting abilities is really good. Marshall is kind of a crummy pick though. You don't get any good standard actions for your clones, you're losing a lot of caster levels, there's no Theurge PrC for you to go into, there aren't that many good Marshall auras, and finally Wu Jen is an INT caster and Marshall needs you to boost your CHA. Also, Persistent body outside body is definitely worth grabbing just for ease of use. My preferred builds for the combo are either Wu Jen/Warblade/Incantatrix/Jade Phoenix Mage for a gish that gets quadruple white raven tactics or Wu Jen/Binder/Anima Mage for a more utility focused build (with that build, I would recommend going Wizard and using a trick of your choice to get body outside body, but thats not essential). Really almost any combo in the form, Wu Jen + Non-Caster + Theurge becomes devastatingly effective once you hit 7th level spells. You could even go Soulcaster or Arcane Trickster if you wanted to.

I do not know how in the hell you are getting persist body outside of body since that would make it a lv 13 spell and I can not find any way to lower your metamagic cost by 6 I have only found 1 and since tome of battle is not allowed that takes out your build you said.

Next Marshal is not as bad as you think it is and it can be very powerful when done right and I think a combo with body outside body and maybe some exalted feats would work very well for RP and for the way it would feel. Yes VOP is one of the ones I am looking at and yes we-jen is Int but my stats are as follows

str 12 Dex 17 Con 17 Int 20 Wis 14 Cha 18
I have taken Aura modivat intel to get my cha to my DC
I have looked at going wild mage with practiced spellcaster
right now I am marshal 1 We-jen 4 wild mage 3 ( which is my jumping off point )
I have 2 feats I need to pick one for 1 and 3

But since this char has not seen play as of yet it is subject to change

[Cosi]

I do not know how in the hell you are getting persist body outside of body since that would make it a lv 13 spell and I can not find any way to lower your metamagic cost by 6 I have only found 1 and since tome of battle is not allowed that takes out your build you said.

Anima Mage allows you to apply any metamagic feat you have to a spell without adjusting the level. 3 times per day at max level, actually, which would give you three Persistent body outside body casts.

[ericgrau]

I thought they were untyped

It says they don't stack in the description so that doesn't matter. But 2 interesting things:
- circumstance and dodge bonuses also stack with other circumstance and dodge bonuses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking). Unlike other types.
- bonuses from the same source or essential the same source don't stack, even if they are untyped (or dodge or circumstance). See same link.

[Hunterx]

[QUOTE=ericgrau;23238177]It says they don't stack in the description so that doesn't matter. But 2 interesting things:
- circumstance and dodge bonuses also stack with other circumstance and dodge bonuses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#stacking). Unlike other types.
- bonuses from the same source or essential the same source don't stack, even if they are untyped (or dodge or circumstance). See same link.[/Q

Circumstance bonus stack if not coming from the same source that is why they do not stack. if they were untyped or dodge bonuses they would stack

[Hunterx]

Anima Mage allows you to apply any metamagic feat you have to a spell without adjusting the level. 3 times per day at max level, actually, which would give you three Persistent body outside body casts.

Anima Mage is in a book that is not on our list which is sad but true. So I will not be able to pull that off, what I am looking at is giant size, plus body outside of body combo. The clones will get the effects of be being giant sized, that makes at level 20 5 colossal players running around. Now that is scary.

[Hunterx]

With draconic aura I could take a marshals major aura in place of one of them correct ?

[The Viscount]

With draconic aura I could take a marshals major aura in place of one of them correct ?

A Marshal may learn a Draconic Aura in place of a major aura. If you take the Draconic Aura feat, you are limited to the options presented on page 87 of Dragon Magic.