"The Mailman: A Direct Damage Sorcerer": Is it possible & worthwhile in 5e?

[Zmaxter]

I was planning on using The Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums)) build for my next character, but we started playing on 5E.
I've been looking around for it and I can't find anything about this class in 5E, but I can't find anything.
This is likely due to most of the spells that are used in the build not being (yet) in 5E.
Anyone know anything identical to this sort of build one can do with 5e? Something akin to this level of enchancement and metamagic?

[VoxRationis]

I was planning on using The Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-(from-Wizards-forums)) build for my next character, but we started playing on 5E.
I've been looking around for it and I can't find anything about this class in 5E, but I can't find anything.
This is likely due to most of the spells that are used in the build not being (yet) in 5E.
Anyone know anything identical to this sort of build one can do with 5e? Something akin to this level of enchancement and metamagic?

By design, you're not going to find that level of enhancement for 5e. Four-class, three-PC builds that require half a dozen sourcebooks to function aren't really part of the design philosophy of 5th edition.

[Jama7301]

I wonder how many of those spells are also Concentration spells in 5e, if they exist at all. Being able to only concentrate on one spell at a time really curbs ridiculous combos.

[Quoxis]

You can probably emulate about anything that ever worked by abusing UA‘s mystic class.

That being said: maybe you could post a tl;dr version of the text wall you linked? Break it down to what exactly you want, and i‘ll try to provide it.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Weirdly, I think a classic Eldritch Blast Warlock with all the usual invocations (Agonizing Blast, optional Repelling Blast, Frost Lance, and Grasp of Hadar) is essentially this. Reliable, consistent magical damage that is hard to prevent. Add the Devil's Sight/Darkness combo, and you're unlikely to ever fail a shot until you get to extremely high levels and start running into true sight. And by then, you're hopefully rocking a Wand of the War Mage +3 and capped Charisma for a +14 to hit. Your only serious problem becomes the Tarrasque and a spiteful DM using either homebrew or an anti-you helmed horror to prevent your damage.

[Naanomi]

You can make builds that emphasize spell damage that hold their weight in the party; but optimization like that (and even ‘builds’ at all by 3.x standards) just aren’t a thing in this system

[Anymage]

Mailman/ubercharger damage has been deliberately left out. Being able to one-shot any target through an alpha strike is something the devs wanted to avoid.

I guess the real question is what you want. If you want a build with lots of nova potential, a straight sorcerer can burn hot really well. If you want reliable, consistent damage, a sorc with a splash of lock will do a solid job. Not quite 3.x levels, but that's by design. If you want to do one thing so well that you break the game's math, that's rarely the sort of thing that goes over well at a real table.

[Zmaxter]

You can probably emulate about anything that ever worked by abusing UA‘s mystic class.

That being said: maybe you could post a tl;dr version of the text wall you linked? Break it down to what exactly you want, and i‘ll try to provide it.

#1 - Metamagic abuse - Metamagic has lost a lot of variety in 5e due to the lack of feats, but it was one of the main features of this build (mostly in order to shorten spells)

#2 - Temporal/Action abuse - As said above, spells or items that create actions or turns also play a big part (Celerity and Arcane Fusion mostly)

#3 - Targeting and Bypassing - Last but not least, using mostly spells that don't have saves and/or bypass SR.

[Unoriginal]

#1 - Metamagic abuse - Metamagic has lost a lot of variety in 5e due to the lack of feats, but it was one of the main features of this build (mostly in order to shorten spells)

"Abuse" is something 5e deliberately avoid allowing.

You can play a Sorcerer if you want, that'll let you use metamagic.



#2 - Temporal/Action abuse - As said above, spells or items that create actions or turns also play a big part (Celerity and Arcane Fusion mostly)


This is not a thing is 5e. You could use the Haste spell, or maybe the Fighter's Action Surge, that's the closest you can get.



#3 - Targeting and Bypassing - Last but not least, using mostly spells that don't have saves and/or bypass SR.

Most creatures don't have Spell Resistance, and none have it the way it was in 3.X.

[Mortis_Elrod]

#1 - Metamagic abuse - Metamagic has lost a lot of variety in 5e due to the lack of feats, but it was one of the main features of this build (mostly in order to shorten spells)

#2 - Temporal/Action abuse - As said above, spells or items that create actions or turns also play a big part (Celerity and Arcane Fusion mostly)

#3 - Targeting and Bypassing - Last but not least, using mostly spells that don't have saves and/or bypass SR.

ok well let me just answer these.

1. you wont find metamagic all that impressive outside of twin and quicken. other metamagics are useful just probably not what your're looking for, especially since you can only 1 at a time.

2. the most notable of this is Action surge and everything else pales by comparison. very very few narrow ways to get more actions or to convert something to a bonus action(which you will never get more than 1 of per turn)

3. SR isnt the same in 5e, its a bit different. I recommend going through the phb and looking and various monsters to get a clear picture. and everything is either a save or an attack. There is maybe a couple things that are automatic like magic missile (which is countered by a shield spell of any level) and thats it.

[No brains]

My best guess is to dip fighter for action surge, then twin and quicken some cantrips. That will get you 5 cantrips in one turn. Going Divine Soul sorcerer gets you Sacred Flame, which is rarely resisted radiant damage and can ignore cover.

[Naanomi]

You can nova well with a highly specialized Eldritch Blast build... a Fighter/Assassin/Warlock/Sorcerer could quicken and action surge from surprise... pushing out 24d10+60 or so once a short rest

[Zmaxter]

My best guess is to dip fighter for action surge, then twin and quicken some cantrips. That will get you 5 cantrips in one turn. Going Divine Soul sorcerer gets you Sacred Flame, which is rarely resisted radiant damage and can ignore cover.


You can nova well with a highly specialized Eldritch Blast build... a Fighter/Assassin/Warlock/Sorcerer could quicken and action surge from surprise... pushing out 24d10+60 or so once a short rest

Thank you both, these are pretty good.

I'm not a powergamer or anything, but I want to introduce a character whose point is being stronger than the rest of the party, to act as sort of a mentor, but it's almost impossible to do that in 5e.
I guess Mystic is my safest bet.

[MrStabby]

Thank you both, these are pretty good.

I'm not a powergamer or anything, but I want to introduce a character whose point is being stronger than the rest of the party, to act as sort of a mentor, but it's almost impossible to do that in 5e.
I guess Mystic is my safest bet.

May be worth checking with the rest of the table to see they would be happy with that. Sounds a controversial intent.

[PhantomSoul]

Thank you both, these are pretty good.

I'm not a powergamer or anything, but I want to introduce a character whose point is being stronger than the rest of the party, to act as sort of a mentor, but it's almost impossible to do that in 5e.
I guess Mystic is my safest bet.

For an NPC, you could just have them much higher-levelled or just give that NPC unique abilities. That would seem easier than to try to make contrived combinations that will make the mentor feel inconsistent or too eclectic, or than trying to make, well, pretty much anything that's character mechanics objective is a fuzzy notion of abusing the system. Making them a relevant monster could also help and would further justify that what the NPC does isn't supposed to be captured by PC creation mechanics -- for example, using a converted Spell Weaver justifies "the Magic rules/limitations are going to be broken", or giving the NPC multiple simultaneous personalities and have each personality be mechanically distinct with separate concentrations and initiatives to otherwise justify the "rule-breaking" to the players.

If it isn't an NPC, then that would definitely be something to talk about with the other players, because "abuse X mechanic" is pretty likely to go over badly as a character concept with a group. And in that case, I can't really see "I'm not a powergamer" being a fitting statement...

[Quoxis]

I'm not a powergamer or anything

Sure.



but I want to introduce a character whose point is being stronger than the rest of the party, to act as sort of a mentor, but it's almost impossible to do that in 5e.

I wonder why. Maybe because people complaining about powergamers.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Thank you both, these are pretty good.

I'm not a powergamer or anything, but I want to introduce a character whose point is being stronger than the rest of the party, to act as sort of a mentor, but it's almost impossible to do that in 5e.
I guess Mystic is my safest bet.
Your character concept is completely possible within 5e. Most things are, really, or only require a little bit of refluffing or tweaks to fit right. It's the mechanical concept that can't always survive translation.

There just aren't that many ways to screw with action economy in 5e, and getting them can be a pretty serious investment if you're starting at low levels (two fighter levels are awesome on any caster, but they're best taken up front and that means you have to survive two spell-less levels and be behind a full spell level for the rest of the game afterwards. Despite what people may tell you, this isn't nothing). There are a few more things for manipulating the likelihood of outcomes- the bless spell, being a halfling, the two halfling feats in Xanathar's, the divination wizard subclass, and the wild sorcerer's chaos manipulation- but almost nothing that bypasses the need for saves or causes absolute damage outside of magic missile.

Being a dead-accurate blaster caster is both a whole lot easier here and has a lot less potential for shenanigans, compared to 3x. Even a non-evocation wizard can get away with respectable damage given a properly curated spell book. To give that whole 'wisened mentor' vibe, I might try a halfling divination wizard with decent social stats. Your intelligence will take some work to cap and there's two feats you really, really want early that compete with this, but you can manipulate fate like no one's business. Even for your allies.

[ProseBeforeHos]

Dragon sorc (fire) blaster is a fine build. One of the most effective sorc's you can play with one of the best "early game's" of any sorc (which is to say, still terrible, but not quite as terrible as wild mage/divine soul).

[No brains]

Thank you both, these are pretty good.

I'm not a powergamer or anything, but I want to introduce a character whose point is being stronger than the rest of the party, to act as sort of a mentor, but it's almost impossible to do that in 5e.
I guess Mystic is my safest bet.

I feel like the best way to handle a mentor character is to make them a higher level/ give them some HD bloat like the Monster Manual does with the Archmage.

Another thing to do with a mentor character is go give them something the PCs will envy that they can get if they're good little boys and girls. The trick of this is that it makes the mentor better than the PCs to start, but allows the PCs to keep their agency and move out of their mentor's shadow. Give the mentor a charm or boon that the players can *possibly* earn and have that be the source of the Mentor's special power. Not only does this give you a Gandalf that can save the day from a balor, it gives the PCs a chance to take of the training wheels and ride the big kid bikes someday. Also a charm or boon is harder to just take by killing the mentor. Food for thought.

You could even use this idea to instill useful ideas for how PCs could play their characters later on. "Hey, your mentor can raise the dead! Wouldn't it be so cool if you could do that, cleric?" "The mentor can plane shift! Maybe you can ask to copy that spell, wizard?" "OMG, Mentor used stunning fist! Use that feature, monk! Ki points are replenished on a short rest! You don't need to save them!"

I was hungry and watched a few videogamedunkey episodes before writing this, so if people disagree with my game advice, they're probably right.:smalltongue: