Melf's Acid Arrow

[tstewt1921]

I know this is my second thread in the same day, however, Melf's Acid Arrow is a fairly week spell that will ramp up over time, and do consistent damage, is there any way to increase said damage or using metamagic to make it stronger? I would like this to be my bread and butter spell on my wizard.

[Nifft]

Melf's Acid Arrow was a solid spell back in 1e when hit point values were low, for example a god might have 66 hp total.

In 3.5e / d20 / PF, hit points have been greatly inflated, and Melf's Acid Arrow is not a reliable damage source any more.

I'd suggest looking at orb of acid and lesser orb of acid in the Spell Compendium, and also at the metamagic feat Energy Substitution in Complete Arcane.

[tstewt1921]

Melf's Acid Arrow was a solid spell back in 1e when hit point values were low, for example a god might have 66 hp total.

In 3.5e / d20 / PF, hit points have been greatly inflated, and Melf's Acid Arrow is not a reliable damage source any more.

I'd suggest looking at orb of acid and lesser orb of acid in the Spell Compendium, and also at the metamagic feat Energy Substitution in Complete Arcane.

Yeah I know, I've got the orb of acid...I was just hoping to find something for Melf's, I knew it would be a long shot.

[Zaq]

Just brainstorming without looking at any books (I’m at work), but Acid Arrow deals damage over time, right? Can you find anything interesting that would separately trigger each time the spell deals its damage? I forget if the Fell XYZ metamagic feats explicitly shut that down or not, but if they don’t, you could look there for a start.

[BowStreetRunner]

Acid Arrow's niche value is that it allows neither a Saving Throw nor Spell Resistance. As long as you make a ranged Touch Attack to hit, it will deal 2d4 acid damage, +1 round per three levels. It also counts as a Weaponlike Spell, so can benefit from certain feats designed for martial classes - like Point Blank Shot, etc..

Edit: Oh, and it has Long (400 ft + 40 ft/lvl) range. There is also the advantage that casters who are taking continuous damage count as being distracted when attempting to cast.

The Extend Spell metamagic feat (one level higher) would double the duration and therefore the Damage over Time effect.
The Coercive Spell metamagic feat (one level higher) would apply a -2 Will save debuff for 3 rounds that would keep resetting each round that they take damage from the spell.
Arcane Thesis would be nice here too, as it would pay for the costs of both metamagic feats, as well as give a +2 CL boost to the spell.

[Deophaun]

Just brainstorming without looking at any books (I’m at work), but Acid Arrow deals damage over time, right? Can you find anything interesting that would separately trigger each time the spell deals its damage? I forget if the Fell XYZ metamagic feats explicitly shut that down or not, but if they don’t, you could look there for a start.
Anything that generically applies to damage rolls should work, such as Knowledge Devotion or Shiba Protector's No Thought.

[Mike Miller]

Guided Spell just about guarantees you hit by attacking again on subsequent rounds if it misses. Otherwise the standard empower and maximize would increase the damage. Metamagic reducers would be nice though

[CharonsHelper]

If you do the Pathfinder Evocation build and dip one level into Crossblooded Sorcerer (orc & green draconic) you can get +3 damage per dice.

Or if you go Arcane Trickster you could add Sneak Attack to it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Repeating, Twin, and Fell Drain would be pretty nasty.

[Gingaroth]

Here are some more ideas:

To improve to hit chance:

The feat ‘Weapon Focus: ranged spell’ (PHB, see also ‘Ranged spell specialisation’ from complete arcane)
‘Spell rehearsal’ (Races of the Dragon): The refined targeting maneuver gives you a cumulative +2 to attack rolls each round you cast the same spell.
The feat 'Guided Spell' (Dragon Compendium, slot cost: +3 levels) – already explaned by Mike Miller
The variant class ‘Battle sorcerer’ (Unearthed Arcana) gives you the BAB progression of a cleric
Any item or spell that improves your dexterity would help too, obviously.


To reduce cost (in spell slot levels) of metamagic feats

The feat 'Arcane Thesis' (PHB II) (-1 to spell slot level cost for 1 specific spell, also raises caster level)
The feat 'Metamagic School Focus' (Complete Mage), (-1 to spell slot level cost to any 3 spells of your chosen school/day)
The feat 'Practical Metamagic' (Races of the Dragon) reduces the spell slot cost of 1 metamagic feat with 1 level.
The feat 'Improved metamagic' (epic) (DMG) (-1 to spell slot level cost)
The feat 'Mastery of the battleground' (PG to Eberron) lets you apply 'extend spell' to any spell that creates or mimics a weapon, without changing its level. I'd say Melf's acid arrow qualifies for this feat.


To do more damage

The feat ‘Ranged spell specialisation’ (Complete Arcane) - Damage-dealing spells that require a ranged touch attack roll deal +2 damage (only for the first round, of first missile in a series).
the class ‘Master Specialist’ (Complete Mage) gives you a +1 bonus to caster level for all conjurations on level 6 , and a +2 on level 9.
The feat ‘Arcane Thesis’ (+2 to caster level for 1 spell)
The feat ‘Spell themetics’ (PG to Faerun) : + 1 to caster level for 1 spell
The trait ‘Spellgifted’ (Unearthed Arcana): +1 caster level for one school, but -1 for all others.
The variant class ‘warmage’ (complete arcane) lets you add your intelligence bonus to spell damage, and gives you some nice bonus metamagic feats.
The metamagic feats 'Enervate spell' (+2 to spell level), 'Wounding spell' (+2), 'Intensify' spell (+7) all increase damage, 'Chain spell' (+3), lets you damage multiple targets.
Don’t forget critical hits count for spells with an attack roll too. Maybe you can talk your DM into accepting the improved critical spell with ‘ranged spells’ or ‘Melf’s Acid Arrow’ or something like that as chosen weapon.


Other stuff that might be fun

The feat ‘cloudy conjuration’ (Complete Mage) : lets you summon a 5 ft radius sickening cloud each time you cast a conjuration spell (like melf’s acid arrow). It lasts only 1 round a time, but for that round your opponent will suffer a -2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
The feat 'Entangling spell' (Champions of Ruin) lets you entangle your victim for 1 round, but takes up a sloth 2 levels higher than the original.
The feat ‘energy substitution’ (Complete Arcane, and others) lets you turn the arrow into a flaming, ice, or electric arrow (choose one) instead of an acid one, without taking up a higher spell slot. This also lets you apply metamagic feats that you can only use for other energy types other than acid, e.g. ‘Fiery Spell’ (Sandstorm).
The feat ‘energy admixture’ (Complete Arcane) lets you do damage with 2 energy types at once (so it does double damage). Costs +4 to spell slot level.

[Fouredged Sword]

Would it trigger fell drain once per round?

[Deophaun]

Would it trigger fell drain once per round?
No, because Fell Drain processes per creature per spell, not per time dealt damage by spell.

[Nifft]

Would it trigger fell drain once per round?

Fell Drain doesn't say each time the creature takes damage -- just that if a living creature takes damage, it suffers a negative level.

If you could inflict a negative level every time damage was inflicted, then a fell drain magic missile would inflict up to 5 negative levels on a single target. So that's probably not how it works.

[BowStreetRunner]

Would it trigger fell drain once per round?That, unfortunately, is a debatable question.

Some see it as a boolean effect: was a creature dealt damage by this spell? Y = gain a negative level. N = do not gain a negative level. Taking additional damage from the spell doesn't change the Y to YY or anything like that.

Others see it differently. They see it as every time it deals damage to a creature that creature gains a negative level.

I'll leave the exact wording here and you can decide for yourself what you believe: "You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level."

[Celestia]

That, unfortunately, is a debatable question.

Some see it as a boolean effect: was a creature dealt damage by this spell? Y = gain a negative level. N = do not gain a negative level. Taking additional damage from the spell doesn't change the Y to YY or anything like that.

Others see it differently. They see it as every time it deals damage to a creature that creature gains a negative level.

I'll leave the exact wording here and you can decide for yourself what you believe: "You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level."
Based on that wording, I'd say that the first interpretation is correct. If, however, it was changed so that the damage dealing was in the active voice while the targets were in the passive voice, then it would imply the opposite. For example:

"You can alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any damage dealt to living creatures also bestows a negative level."

[Fizban]

Acid Arrow was also a lot better, relatively speaking, before someone went and put Scorching Ray in there.

Doesn't help a wizard, but the easiest answer is to be a warmage. Warmage Edge explicitly applies every round of an ongoing spell, so with some spare int eventually you could be doubling the damage. Methods of converting the damage to other/non-types are very important, since it only takes a tiny bit of resistance to negate the whole spell. Fire damage has access to Blistering Spell for nearly double damage at only a +1 cost.

The main benefit of continual damage spells is getting to invoke the continual damage clause of the spell rules, forcing a concentration check. Even an enhanced Acid Arrow isn't going to do much for that past the first few levels. But in games where you don't have tons of point buy so some casters actually risk not taking or maxing concentration, against monsters with SLAs that don't have the skill, in the event you need to stop someone from performing any other task that requires concentration (and what non-casters take the skill besides martial adepts?), those little moments might be fun.

[Techwarrior]

On the related note of 'does it trigger each time it does damage or once per spell per creature' the feat Born of the Three Thunders is a +0 adjust metamagic effect that forces Reflex vs prone and Fortitude vs Stun. If you can get your DM convinced that spending two feats and getting a way to deal with the Daze is a reasonable cost, you could force those saves each round of the Acid Arrow.

At that point though, you'd be better off with something like Heartfire which deals damage for rounds/level, which is coincidentally a very cool trick flavor-wise.

[Nifft]

On the related note of 'does it trigger each time it does damage or once per spell per creature' the feat Born of the Three Thunders is a +0 adjust metamagic effect that forces Reflex vs prone and Fortitude vs Stun. If you can get your DM convinced that spending two feats and getting a way to deal with the Daze is a reasonable cost, you could force those saves each round of the Acid Arrow.

That does not work.

The thunderous conclusion to Bot3T only occurs once, because the spell concludes only once.