Durkon doesn't need to be the hero

[TheStranger]

Since shortly after comic 1127, I have been convinced that the payoff to Durkon's memories and the conclusion to this battle would be Sigdi and/or her friends showing up just in time to help the OotS. The biggest objection to this, which I haven't had a great answer for until now, is the idea that Durkon's memory has to somehow influence the outcome of the battle - otherwise, what's the point? This is, after all, clearly the Durkon-centric portion of the story.

However, Greg once pointed out something that I think is important - Durkon's most important memories are about other people (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1087.html). Greg meant it as an insult, because he completely missed the point. The most important things in Durkon's life aren't his accomplishments, they're the people around him - what they taught him, what he taught them, and what they did for each other. Narratively, Durkon's character arc doesn't require that Durkon do anything to defeat Greg, because Durkon's character arc isn't about him saving the day in this moment - it's about the way he's lived his life.

Like Greg says in the linked comic, Durkon has lived his life as a support beam, without ever satisfying his own desires. What Greg doesn't get is that Durkon wouldn't have it any other way. All Durkon wants is to die with honor and be buried next to his pappy, and his grandpappy, and his great-grandpappy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html) What we're seeing now is why. What's important to Durkon, and what we're currently seeing him learn from Sigdi, is helping the people around him, helping them be better people (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1098.html), and seeing them pay it forward by helping others.

So that's why I think Durkon's character arc here doesn't need Durkon to affect this battle. If Durkon's friends and family save the day because of loyalties that were established years ago, that's still a satisfying narrative payoff, because that's *why* Durkon has been the Durkon we know his whole life. This is what Durkon believes in - he helps other people, because they'll help other people, and if he's not the hero today somebody else will be (whoever's "closer'n most" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0947.html)). He doesn't need a Big Damn Heroes moment, because he's spent his entire life being a bigger hero than anybody realizes. To Durkon, heroism isn't about what he does, it's about what other people do because of him. And if they're doing it because of something Sigdi did before he was even born, that just proves his point - dwarven karma pays off slow, but it pays off big.

So, if Sigdi's friends were going to show up and save the day regardless, why is Durkon showing Greg this memory? The narrative reason is that we, the readers, needed to see it in order to understand the story we're reading. In-story, it's entirely possible that this memory will affect Greg in some way, but it's not required. If this is just Durkon twisting the knife because Greg has already lost and doesn't know it, that fits the story just fine. Also, showing Greg memories is literally the only way Durkon can affect anything right now, and it's not in Durkon's character to not try to do whatever he can. The small chance that this memory screws Greg up, or robs him of any satisfaction in this victory, is enough reason for Durkon to try.

As long as I'm writing an extended note on Durkon's personality, I'll comment on the question raised in another thread about whether Durkon will be resurrected after the battle. My personal thinking is that he will, because the OotS plans to do it and they probably have the resources available. If they attempt to resurrect Durkon, he'll come, because staying in Valhalla instead of going back and doing your duty (even if it makes you miserable) is the coward's way out. The world still needs saving, and Kudzu needs a father, so Durkon will come back, as long as somebody remembers to tell him he's allowed to (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html) (which I think might be the narrative purpose of that scene). But for Durkon's character arc, I don't think he needs to be resurrected. If Plot stops it from happening, and the last thing he sees through Greg's eyes is his friends and family continuing to pay it forward, he'll go to Valhalla knowing that he's had the best life any dwarf could ask for.

[brian 333]

Absolutely beautiful.

[Snails]

Impressive.

[Mariele]

Very well said, but it doesn't quite sit right with me. My objections are nowhere near as eloquent, but lemme give it a shot. I understand what you're saying--that we're all expecting this big dramatic Durkon-saves-the-day-and-is-in-the-spotlight moment because he's never been in the spotlight before, so we feel he's due it for his arc, but it would cheapen his character. The man who blends into the background doesn't need to have that part of him changed, because it's always been his best trait, and the point of the arc is to draw attention to that. And I feel that you're spot on with the meaning of the linked comic.

... Nevertheless, it doesn't seem right to me. I feel like the entire setup has been too well set up to ignore. Every character has had this big arc where their biggest flaw (and, arguably, major trait) has been called attention to and has been worked to be fixed. Durkon's passivity is so obvious that he's a bystander in his own body right now! No other trait of his has had so much attention called to it that it feels like this has to be the part of his character we're addressing. And saying that Durkon is flawless is, well... odd. It would break the pattern, but not in a way that is neat or interesting, to me.

Still, I do get what you're saying, and I can definitely appreciate it. If the story goes the way you predict I'm sure it'll be well written and enjoyable. But I feel like this arc has to be resolved with a big moment from Durkon. I don't think it'll change him 100%--he's still loyal and dependable Durkon, and he'll still value saving the world over enjoying a comfy afterlife!--but I think we'll see him as a touch more assertive after this. More like his mother. Not boastful, but aware of himself enough that he could become a sergeant, y'know? He didn't even take over the team when Roy's been AWOL. I think that's closer to the change we'll be getting.

[Inst]

Yup, that's Durkon's character. But I'm wondering, what's the real reason Sigdi didn't raise Tenrin? Did Tenrin refuse to be raised? Did Sigdi not want to raise him? What's the real story? Does Durkon actually have paternal abandonment issues?

[Rrmcklin]

You expressed your opinion well, and I can respect it. However, as you described, that still sounds narratively unsatisfying.

That being said, I feel like a bigger hitch to that is that Durkon's mother and her friends she revived are all old, and we have absolutely no reason to think that any of them (or their families) could possibly be off help in a fight against vampires. So, yeah...

[mathblitz]

I agree with everything that you said. I'd just like to compile the answers to some of the common questions that people have:

1. Why didn't Sigdi try to raise Tenrin? They had nothing left of his body which was completely buried. Resurrection needs a piece of the post-death corpse to work.

2. What about True Resurrection? The Giant doesn't like this spell and even though its mentioned once its probably best to assume this world does not have it at all. I suspect the Giant made the number of friends 5 and the amount of gold 25000 to introduce this red herring.

3. What about the foreshadowing? Wasn't Durkon supposed to trick Durkon*/Greg/Durkula by taking advantage of the fact he couldn't connect memories? He did, its Wednesday morning and Sigdi + Family have wednesday dinner and probably start cooking in the morning so they chance upon it. Alternative way they find out: the brew master who was in the Temple of Thor survived and feeling super guilty about lying to Sigdi all these years and makes a beeline to confess. The connection here is the Tuesday -> Wednesday time link that Greg missed and didn't see between the memories of Durkon's biweekly family meals and the current date.

4. Why would Durkon give Greg a heads up? And shouldn't the climax be Durkon saving the day? See the original post, author makes an excellent argument.

[Inst]

Yeah, I'm rereading the material. I had considered it as something similar to "Sigdi Does The Trolley Problem" (sac Tenrin for 5 random strangers), but it's just a random act of generosity. So if Tenrin can't / shouldn't be raised, it's more like getting a windfall from a wrongful death lawsuit, then deciding to donate the money because it just keeps on reminding you of what you lost.

[TheStranger]

Very well said, but it doesn't quite sit right with me. My objections are nowhere near as eloquent, but lemme give it a shot. I understand what you're saying--that we're all expecting this big dramatic Durkon-saves-the-day-and-is-in-the-spotlight moment because he's never been in the spotlight before, so we feel he's due it for his arc, but it would cheapen his character. The man who blends into the background doesn't need to have that part of him changed, because it's always been his best trait, and the point of the arc is to draw attention to that. And I feel that you're spot on with the meaning of the linked comic.

... Nevertheless, it doesn't seem right to me. I feel like the entire setup has been too well set up to ignore. Every character has had this big arc where their biggest flaw (and, arguably, major trait) has been called attention to and has been worked to be fixed. Durkon's passivity is so obvious that he's a bystander in his own body right now! No other trait of his has had so much attention called to it that it feels like this has to be the part of his character we're addressing. And saying that Durkon is flawless is, well... odd. It would break the pattern, but not in a way that is neat or interesting, to me.

Still, I do get what you're saying, and I can definitely appreciate it. If the story goes the way you predict I'm sure it'll be well written and enjoyable. But I feel like this arc has to be resolved with a big moment from Durkon. I don't think it'll change him 100%--he's still loyal and dependable Durkon, and he'll still value saving the world over enjoying a comfy afterlife!--but I think we'll see him as a touch more assertive after this. More like his mother. Not boastful, but aware of himself enough that he could become a sergeant, y'know? He didn't even take over the team when Roy's been AWOL. I think that's closer to the change we'll be getting.

That's a good point. I think Durkon will grow as a character from this regardless of what happens here (you know, assuming he doesn't stay dead), and being less passive is the obvious change. I agree with you that the story could go a lot of different ways, and whatever way it goes will be awesome. I wrote this mostly as a explanation of why I didn't feel like Durkon *needed* to do anything else to affect this battle for the story to be compelling.

[Dion]

Yup, that's Durkon's character. But I'm wondering, what's the real reason Sigdi didn't raise Tenrin?

This is a good question. To those of us who know the rules to D&D (and have read the flashbacks), the answer is obvious: first, Tenrin is in Valhalla, so there’s no good reason to raise him. Second, they don’t have Tenrin’s body, so there’s no method to raise him.

Since there’s neither a reason nor a method to raise Tenrin, he wasn’t raised.

I hope that explanation makes sense.

[Dion]

it's more like getting a windfall from a wrongful death lawsuit, then deciding to donate the money because it just keeps on reminding you of what you lost.

That’s an interesting observation. Can you point to the evidence you’ve found that indicates this is how sigdi feels?

[TheStranger]

That’s an interesting observation. Can you point to the evidence you’ve found that indicates this is how sigdi feels?

I don't want to speak for Inst, but my thinking is that survivor guilt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_guilt) is playing a big role in Sigdi's decision here. I don't think there's much hard evidence in the comic, but it's a pretty well-documented phenomenon IRL. So it wouldn't be at all surprising for her to feel like she doesn't deserve to keep that money. She's also feeling all of that very much in the moment and still processing losing her husband. If she had gotten the money a few years later instead of while everything was fresh, she might or might not have done the same thing.

[Mith]

Adding to this theory: Durkon's been the support role his whole life. His Big Damn Hero moment was when he fought to protect Belkar, because that what one does. The pay off is with what Belkar does in this arc.

[brian 333]

Adding to this theory: Durkon's been the support role his whole life. His Big Damn Hero moment was when he fought to protect Belkar, because that what one does. The pay off is with what Belkar does in this arc.

If I read this right, Durkon's shining moment was in prompting heroism from Belkar?

If I extrapolate from this, as both a dwarf and a cleric, Durkon's greatest strength is his ability to inspire others. What Dufkula sees as passivity is actually a very positive attribute which multiplies Durkon's strength.

Is this an accurate extrapolation?

[TheStranger]

Adding to this theory: Durkon's been the support role his whole life. His Big Damn Hero moment was when he fought to protect Belkar, because that what one does. The pay off is with what Belkar does in this arc.
I like it.


If I read this right, Durkon's shining moment was in prompting heroism from Belkar?

If I extrapolate from this, as both a dwarf and a cleric, Durkon's greatest strength is his ability to inspire others. What Dufkula sees as passivity is actually a very positive attribute which multiplies Durkon's strength.

Is this an accurate extrapolation?
Sounds good to me. We've seen Durkon kick butt and take names when the situation calls for it, but his heroic thesis is that being Good isn't about killing monsters, it's about helping people and inspiring them. Not only is that just what one does, it means that the good Durkon does extends beyond himself in a way that the deeds of Elan, Haley, or even Roy don't. Any one person can only do so much, but there's no limit to what a world full of Good people can do. In the present moment, that means that even though Durkon is trapped by Greg, there's a seriously pissed-off halfling ready to do what needs to be done, with a possible assist from some family friends who have been waiting 60 years for their second chance at a heroic death.

Speaking of family friends, comic 1128 is titled "Raising a Family." In comic 1097 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1097.html), the brewmaster regrets lying to Sigdi "an' 'er whole family" about Durkon's exile. I'm really thinking he's taken care of that by now.