How would you employ war fans in a sneak attack?

[MonkeySage]

This character is a dancer and a ninja. He employs fans in many of his performances, and I'm wondering how he'd use them for a sneak attack. According to the weapon entry, these fans can be used to distract opponents, too.

This character is normally less about stealth and more about subtlety. How might that work in pathfinder?

[Braininthejar2]

A fan with a sharp edge? Step close as you dance, move your arm under the samurai's, then suddenly pull, cutting a major blood vessel in his armpit. With a bit of push to get the edge of the shoulder pad out of the way, should work even with armored opponent.

Or do you mean crunch rather than fluff?

[Psyren]

Kitana (https://mortalkombat.wikia.com/wiki/Kitana) is probably the most iconic war fan user in gaming (if not popular culture as a whole) and is also a ninja. You can fluff what you're doing to match her easily.

If you're instead asking "how would I use fighting fans to sneak attack mechanically" - Unchained Monk of the Mantis refluffing my flurry as a dance (again, using Kitana as inspiration) with an agile fighting fan would probably be a good start. That or some kind of Shatter Defenses build.

[BowStreetRunner]

If the opponent doesn't realize you are going to attack - i.e. they are watching your performance and aren't in combat - then they would be flat footed until you attack, allowing you to make a sneak attack.

You might also use Skill Tricks (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/richard-s-lab/alternative-rules/extra-skills/new-skill-tricks/) to do something like this. Hidden dance, Hidden weapon, and Sudden Weapon can all be useful ways to generate a sneak attack.

[MonkeySage]

I was referring to the mechanics of fighting fan sneak attacks. :P Though flavor is helpful!

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I was referring to the mechanics of fighting fan sneak attacks. :P Though flavor is helpful!

Flick of the Wrist from CW can help.

Just have some hidden fans on the dancer body and drop the ones you already used(a bloody fan is an evidence).


these fans can be used to distract opponents, too.


Do you have a surce for this?
What do they mean by distract?

[MonkeySage]

Source: Fighting Fan entry under light exotic weapons in Ultimate Equipment. Under "Special", the weapon is listed as having distract and monk special qualities. It doesn't elaborate further here, and I don't have an actual copy of the book. I'm assuming "Distracting" is a combat maneuver.

CW?

[Psyren]

Source: Fighting Fan entry under light exotic weapons in Ultimate Equipment. Under "Special", the weapon is listed as having distract and monk special qualities. It doesn't elaborate further here, and I don't have an actual copy of the book. I'm assuming "Distracting" is a combat maneuver.

Weapon properties are, predictably, defined on the "Weapons" page (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/) :smalltongue:

"Distracting: You gain a +2 bonus on Bluff skill checks to feint in combat while wielding this weapon"

The difficulty here is that feinting generally messes with your ability to full attack, resulting in an overall damage loss.


CW?

Complete Warrior. (I'm guessing he missed the "Pathfinder" reference in your opening post.)

[Zaq]

I dunno about PF, but in 3.5, Complete Scoundrel has the Cloaked Dancer PrC, which is all about making enemies pay attention to you and your dance and then surprising them with an attack out of nowhere.

Now, to be fair, the mechanics totally fall flat and don't actually give nearly enough return on investment to be anything considered optimal or even especially interesting (it's actually a remarkably awful class), but I suppose it could technically be considered a starting point. Especially if you've got a GM who enjoys tinkering with "cool concept, awful execution" mechanics to make them better. I have no reason to believe that you do, but it might not hurt to ask.

Otherwise, if you're looking to do the whole "target doesn't realize that you're an assassin until it's too late" thing, that seems like just good old-fashioned Bluff, Disguise, and roleplaying. Maybe with Quick Draw if that's still a consideration. Is Fascinate still a thing?

[MonkeySage]

Fascinate exists, but Ninja can't use it. They do gain access to Rogue Talents, though, as one of their Ninja Tricks. But as far as GMs go, that's not a problem with me- this character is being created as an npc, i just want to make sure the mechanics work. I may use this concept in a future campaign.

[Psyren]

There are two ways I would approach this concept:

1) Fan-agnostic: For a build that can be used without fans at all, I would pull off this concept with Unchained Monk of the Mantis, using Abundant Step to qualify for Dimensional Savant (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-savant/) so I could flank with myself. Blinking in and out of existence and nailing the target with full sneak attack from both sides would fit the image of a mystic assassin quite well to me, and unlike the ninja all my attacks would be at full BAB. You can do this with any monk weapon (even your fists) so you'd probably want something with more punch/crit potential than the fighting fans have.

2) Fan-based: The idea here is a build that makes the fans a central aspect. This would rely on feinting your target since the fans help you do that. (You can also flurry with them, but that doesn't matter if you're going to TWF with a pair of fans anyway.) The dream is to be able to feint as a swift action, and have the sneak attack vulnerability that results last longer than a single hit, so that you can feint your target and then full-attack them with every hit getting sneak attack as above. There are two feats in PF that enable this: Moonlight Stalker Feint from Ultimate Combat, and Greater Feint from core. As a Ninja though you'll probably want the "No-Shadow Strike" Ninja Trick instead of MSF to save yourself feats. This build plays to the Ninja's strengths, since your Cha is going to want to be decently high anyway for more ki. You can also use the Smokestick equipment trick to feint as a swift action.

The problem with #2 is that if you're a ninja, you have a much easier way of full-sneak attacking most targets - Invisible Blade, aka Greater Invisibility. It works on things you can't feint, and for things with Blindsense etc., you can pick up Dampen Presence to still have a shot at beating their senses. But if you're set on the fans being part of the build that's the way to go. (You could always combine both too, since the feinting is usable earlier than IB.)

I'm too lazy to hyperlink everything above but you should be able to find it all pretty easily.

[MonkeySage]

Here's his level 10 spread so far:

As a musetouched aasimar, he gets +2 dex, +2 cha, with bonuses to Perform and Diplomacy and the glitterdust spell like ability (which may or may not be useful for a ninja, probably not)

Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 17

Feats:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (for the fighting fan), Weapon Finesse (fighting fan), Two Weapon Fighting, and Undecided for levels 7 and 9

This feels like an expensive build, requiring 3 feats to use effectively. If I dispensed with Weapon Finesse, it might not be so bad, but my attacks would suffer.

I haven't yet chosen his tricks. His secondary weapons might be shuriken, with some sort of sword as a back up.

[Psyren]

As a musetouched aasimar, he gets +2 dex, +2 cha, with bonuses to Perform and Diplomacy and the glitterdust spell like ability (which may or may not be useful for a ninja, probably not)

Sure it is, blind enemies can be sneak attacked.



Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 17

Are those stats after the racial adjustments and 2 level increases? What point buy/rolls did you start with?



Feats:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (for the fighting fan), Weapon Finesse (fighting fan), Two Weapon Fighting, and Undecided for levels 7 and 9

This feels like an expensive build, requiring 3 feats to use effectively. If I dispensed with Weapon Finesse, it might not be so bad, but my attacks would suffer.

I haven't yet chosen his tricks.

You can use your tricks to get some of these feats (specifically, Combat Trick and Rogue Talent).

[MonkeySage]

After racial adjustments and level increases- 25 point buy, standard for major npcs and player characters in my own setting. Sacrifices can be made for lower point buys.

[Psyren]

After racial adjustments and level increases- 25 point buy, standard for major npcs and player characters in my own setting. Sacrifices can be made for lower point buys.

20 PB is standard for PFS so you'd be sitting pretty with 25.

If you have no better plans for the ninja tricks, using them to get feats early is a solid strategy.