Fun and Funky Character Builds: Lightning Monk

[PhantasyPen]

Hey all, I got bit by the inspiration bug again recently and I got a bit of an interesting character concept that I'm trying to figure out how to go about making, so I'm currently seeing what options that the playground has to suggest.

What I'm Looking For:
I'm trying to craft a weather-based martial artist. So a lightning specialist more or less with some modest unarmed melee capability.

Mandatory Elements:
Good-alignment
Improved (and Superior) Unarmed Strike
Intuitive Attack Feat (for SAD-ness)
Divine Casting or Psionics (Needs WIS-focus)

Things I've Already Looked Over:
Shining Blade of Heironeus
Stormlord
Stormcaster
Divine Crusader

Possible Builds:
Build 1: "Zeus" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23240025&postcount=10)
Build 2: "Hammer of Heaven" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23242243&postcount=20)

[Zaq]

Tashalatora Ardent with a weather/lightning focus? I forget if the storm-themed PrC for Ardents is suboptimal or not, but that seems like a place to start.

There’s also Unarmed Swordsage if you can get your GM to tweak Desert Wind to Desert Lightning. Deserts (at least some of them) do have cool lightning storms now and again. They might not happen every day, but they’re impressive when they do happen.

Hmm. Just saw your “divine casting” requirement. How willing are you to be flexible on that? What aspects of divine casting appeal to you? Is it just the WIS focus, or is there something in particular you’ve latched onto?

Of course, Sacred Fist is what WotC thinks of as the “standard” way to mix Monk-like martial arts and divine casting. Enter as a Spirit Shaman or ask for an alignment waiver to enter as a Druid (I do see your “must be Good” rule) and just focus on the weather/lightning spells you like.

[PhantasyPen]

Tashalatora Ardent with a weather/lightning focus? I forget if the storm-themed PrC for Ardents is suboptimal or not, but that seems like a place to start.

There’s also Unarmed Swordsage if you can get your GM to tweak Desert Wind to Desert Lightning. Deserts (at least some of them) do have cool lightning storms now and again. They might not happen every day, but they’re impressive when they do happen.

Hmm. Just saw your “divine casting” requirement. How willing are you to be flexible on that? What aspects of divine casting appeal to you? Is it just the WIS focus, or is there something in particular you’ve latched onto?

Of course, Sacred Fist is what WotC thinks of as the “standard” way to mix Monk-like martial arts and divine casting. Enter as a Spirit Shaman or ask for an alignment waiver to enter as a Druid (I do see your “must be Good” rule) and just focus on the weather/lightning spells you like.

RIGHT! The Ardent! I keep forgetting that class exists. This only WIS psionic I could think of initially was the PsyWar, and as much as I love them they don't really have the casting power I'm going for. Opening Post has been modified to reflect.

I don't think I'd be opposed to an unarmed swordsage, but what I'm going for explicitly is supposed to be a caster, and I'm starting to feel like every time I make a martial artist I go to Unarmed Swordsage, and I don't really want to be one-note like that.

I suppose I could go Sacred Fist, just would need to re-design Sacred Flame to do electric instead of fire damage, but then comes the question of what to do afterwards.

[Zaq]

I don’t want to be That Guy who keeps harping on his first suggestion once the OP dismisses it, but that may happen today anyway.

What “casting power” are you looking for that the Ardent lacks? They’re full manifesters. I see them as the Cleric to the Psion’s Wizard—different game-changing power and maybe a very slightly lower op ceiling, but still functionally the same tier most of the time. Is there some specific magical effect or class of magical effects you have in mind that you’re worried that the Ardent won’t be able to provide? Because I think that Ardent with Tashalatora is honestly probably about perfect for what you’ve described.

If there’s something in particular that you’re looking for that you haven’t described, of course, that’s another matter.

[PhantasyPen]

I don’t want to be That Guy who keeps harping on his first suggestion once the OP dismisses it, but that may happen today anyway.

What “casting power” are you looking for that the Ardent lacks?

You misread my statement lol. The Ardent is fine, I just always forget it exists. It was the PSYWAR I said lacked adequate casting power for my goals.

[The Viscount]

Tashalatora Ardent with a weather/lightning focus? I forget if the storm-themed PrC for Ardents is suboptimal or not, but that seems like a place to start.

There’s also Unarmed Swordsage if you can get your GM to tweak Desert Wind to Desert Lightning. Deserts (at least some of them) do have cool lightning storms now and again. They might not happen every day, but they’re impressive when they do happen.

Hmm. Just saw your “divine casting” requirement. How willing are you to be flexible on that? What aspects of divine casting appeal to you? Is it just the WIS focus, or is there something in particular you’ve latched onto?

Of course, Sacred Fist is what WotC thinks of as the “standard” way to mix Monk-like martial arts and divine casting. Enter as a Spirit Shaman or ask for an alignment waiver to enter as a Druid (I do see your “must be Good” rule) and just focus on the weather/lightning spells you like.

I'd say the Storm-themed PrC (Storm Disciple) is suboptimal because it's 3/5ths casting in exchange for thundering weapons, electricity resist, and an insultingly small 1 electricity damage buff. The stormwalker class feature is not something that's going to come up with any regularity. I'm interested in why you call it a PrC for Ardents. I had always thought of it as a PrC for Divine Minds since its electricity aura is just a worse version of the Energy Mantle's aura power, advancing at the same rate. It does at least stack with the Energy Mantle's Aura, so that's something.

If divine casting is what you seek I'm going to second this Spirit Shaman recommendation. It's a fun way to use the Druid list without having to worry about Druid's class features making you too strong.

[ShurikVch]

How about to use the Kineticist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030328b)?

Also, Kung Fu Genius instead the Intuitive Attack may allow to use Psion instead Ardent

[daremetoidareyo]

A warforged with shocking Fist and the conductivity feat from Unearthed Arcana is a fun way to get electric pain on your enemy

[PhantasyPen]

A warforged with shocking Fist and the conductivity feat from Unearthed Arcana is a fun way to get electric pain on your enemy

I hadn't thought of that, but it definitely might be interesting. Although if I take the conductivity feat I'll be basically forced to give up energy immunity.


How about to use the Kineticist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030328b)?

Also, Kung Fu Genius instead the Intuitive Attack may allow to use Psion instead Ardent

While the kineticist has a lot of interesting abilities, and its capstones are amazing in terms of ham to go with my inevitable cheese, it's also a steaming hot mess due to being based on 3.0 psionics and would need to be updated to the 3.5 revision before I went anywhere near it.

EDIT: Also, Kung fu genius just switches my Wis-based monk abilities over to Int, only reducing some of my MAD-ness, while Intuitive Attack changes my attacking stat with natural and simple weapons (which are what I planned to use) from Str or Dex over to Wis, which considering I'd have the Monk AC bonus and Wis-casting already, effectively turns me into a DAD or SAD character relying on Constitution and Wisdom or even just Wisdom entirely.



I'd say the Storm-themed PrC (Storm Disciple) is suboptimal because it's 3/5ths casting in exchange for thundering weapons, electricity resist, and an insultingly small 1 electricity damage buff. The stormwalker class feature is not something that's going to come up with any regularity. I'm interested in why you call it a PrC for Ardents. I had always thought of it as a PrC for Divine Minds since its electricity aura is just a worse version of the Energy Mantle's aura power, advancing at the same rate. It does at least stack with the Energy Mantle's Aura, so that's something.

If divine casting is what you seek I'm going to second this Spirit Shaman recommendation. It's a fun way to use the Druid list without having to worry about Druid's class features making you too strong.

I think I agree about your assessment of the Storm Disciple, it's a fun class that is rather weak in its execution, if the class' electricity aura was "additional damage equal to your Storm Disciple level" I think it would be worth it, particularly given I intended for this character to mostly rely on melee attacks for actual combat.

That being said, I don't think I would want to use the Spirit Shaman, I tend to stay away from it and the Favored Soul as a general rule, and I think I would get more mileage out of the Hunter-variant Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) combined with the Spontaneous Divine Casters (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) rules. Which, now that I'm looking, might negate the need for taking monk levels at all outside of some flavor.

[PhantasyPen]

Alright! So, this is my tentative first build for this character, using a few assumptions on my part but this is partly just for fun anyways.

Race: Lesser Djinni (Savage Species, pg. 161, LA+0 base djinni race)
Alignment: Neutral Good (Counts as Chaotic Good if given the alignment subtypes from Djinni 1)
Outsider Type



Level
Class Features
Feats
AC Bonus
Unarmed Damage
Fast Movement Bonus


Monk 1
Decisive Strike ACF, Monk's Unarmed Strike, AC Bonus
Combat Casting, Bonus: Stunning Strike
Wis
1d6
+0 ft.


Monk 2
Evasion
Bonus: Combat Reflexes
Wis
1d6
+0 ft.


Monk 2, Hunter Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) 1
AC Bonus, Fast Movement, Favored Enemy +2, Elemental Companion: Air, Nature's Sense, Wild Empathy
Intuitive Attack, Bonus: Track
Wis
1d6
+10 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 2
Woodland Stride
--
Wis
1d6
+10 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 3
Trackless Step
--
Wis+1
1d6
+10 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4
Resist Nature's Lure
Superior Unarmed Strike
Wis+1
1d8
+20 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 1
Unarmed Damage
--
Wis+2
1d8
+20 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 2
--
--
Wis+2
1d10
+20 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 3
--
Consecrate Spell
Wis+2
1d10
+30 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 4
Sacred Lightning 1/Day
--
Wis+2
1d10
+30 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 5
--
--
Wis+3
1d10
+30 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 6
Blindsense 10 ft.
Improved Natural Attack: Unarmed Strike
Wis+3
3d6
+40 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 7
--
--
Wis+3
3d6



Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 8
Sacred Lightning 2/Day
--
Wis+3
3d6
+50 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 9
--
Energy Substitution: Electricity
Wis+3
3d6
+50 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 4, Sacred Fist 10
Inner Armor
--
Wis+4
3d8
+50 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 5, Sacred Fist 10
Favored Enemy +4/+2
--
Wis+5
3d8
+50 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 6, Sacred Fist 10
--
Conductivity
Wis+5
3d8
+50 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 7, Sacred Fist 10
--
--
Wis+5
3d8
+60 ft.


Monk 2, Druid 8, Sacred Fist 10
Swift Tracker
--
Wis+6
3d8
+60 ft.



Put all ability score advancements from leveling up into Wisdom, grab magic items that boost the same, and after all this you should have a lightning-throwing demigod all but literally, particularly if the DM allows the fast movement to apply to your racial flight speed. Having an out of control libido and being surrounded by clouds at nearly all times is not optional.

[ShurikVch]

While the kineticist has a lot of interesting abilities, and its capstones are amazing in terms of ham to go with my inevitable cheese, it's also a steaming hot mess due to being based on 3.0 psionics and would need to be updated to the 3.5 revision before I went anywhere near it.Come on, let's be fair there - it's not that much of a mess:
Mental hardness wasn't even mentioned anywhere
Psionic Combat and 0-Level Powers are can be just ignored
and "primary ability" would be just defaulted to whatever is your PC primary manifesting ability


EDIT: Also, Kung fu genius just switches my Wis-based monk abilities over to Int, only reducing some of my MAD-ness, while Intuitive Attack changes my attacking stat with natural and simple weapons (which are what I planned to use) from Str or Dex over to Wis, which considering I'd have the Monk AC bonus and Wis-casting already, effectively turns me into a DAD or SAD character relying on Constitution and Wisdom or even just Wisdom entirely.Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm):
If you force the subject to engage in combat, its attack bonus is equal to your base attack bonus + your Intelligence bonus, and its bonus on damage rolls is equal to your Intelligence bonus.

[PhantasyPen]

Come on, let's be fair there - it's not that much of a mess:
Mental hardness wasn't even mentioned anywhere
Psionic Combat and 0-Level Powers are can be just ignored
and "primary ability" would be just defaulted to whatever is your PC primary manifesting ability

Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm):


The forced use of Psion progression however would be problematic, unless that was just ignored as part of the 3.0 madness, since the only psionic base classes in 3.0 were the Psion and PsyWar I believe.

Control body doesn't say anything about controlling yourself, and even if it did, it's a Concentration spell, which in 3.5 means giving up your standard action. So you'd giving up your standard action to force yourself to take a standard action, isn't that a fun little logic bomb?

[Zaq]

I'd say the Storm-themed PrC (Storm Disciple) is suboptimal because it's 3/5ths casting in exchange for thundering weapons, electricity resist, and an insultingly small 1 electricity damage buff. The stormwalker class feature is not something that's going to come up with any regularity. I'm interested in why you call it a PrC for Ardents. I had always thought of it as a PrC for Divine Minds since its electricity aura is just a worse version of the Energy Mantle's aura power, advancing at the same rate. It does at least stack with the Energy Mantle's Aura, so that's something.

If divine casting is what you seek I'm going to second this Spirit Shaman recommendation. It's a fun way to use the Druid list without having to worry about Druid's class features making you too strong.

That's what I get for posting without looking at the books. Yeah, Storm Disciple seems to be garbage. I think of it as being an Ardent class rather than a Divine Mind class because Divine Minds don't really exist, so anyone who has access to a mantle is probably an Ardent (Mantled Wilder and Mantled PsyWar give up too much).

Pen, your Sacred Fist build seems fine (assuming that you handwave away the alignment restrictions and that your GM is cool with swapping fire for electricity, both of which are totally reasonable things most of the time). I'm not sure how effective Fiery Fist will be, though. You don't have that many uses of Stunning Fist per day with so few Monk levels, and +1d6 damage per swing for a few rounds per day doesn't seem like an extremely efficient use of a level 15 feat. I guess by level 15 you'll have about five or six SF uses per day, which isn't terrible, but it's still few enough that it seems inefficient to burn them for a relatively low return on damage.

What would you say to taking Invisible Fist at level 2 (swapping out Evasion) and then taking Spectral Skirmisher with that feat slot? Decisive Strike means that it's in your best interest to find ways to trigger extra AoOs, after all. Spectral Skirmisher lets you take an AoO if someone attacks you while invisible, and Invisible Fist lets you arbitrarily become invisible as an immediate action, which should work just fine in response to being attacked.

Alternatively, if you've already been granted leave to arbitrarily swap fiery stuff for electric stuff, taking Martial Study for Burning (Shocking?) Blade would have a similar effect to Fiery Fist, but it would do more damage and would be usable simply once per encounter rather than draining Stunning Fist uses. You couldn't blow all of your uses of it round after round, but you'd be able to still occasionally stun people.

Oh, I also just noticed that you don't qualify for Energy Substitution. That has a prereq of any metamagic feat, so you'll need to shove something else in there first. Maybe Smiting Spell to give a nice pseudo-channeling effect, assuming that "a weapon that you hold" is ruled to include an unarmed strike?

[PhantasyPen]

Oh, I also just noticed that you don't qualify for Energy Substitution. That has a prereq of any metamagic feat, so you'll need to shove something else in there first. Maybe Smiting Spell to give a nice pseudo-channeling effect, assuming that "a weapon that you hold" is ruled to include an unarmed strike?

Well that gets rid of Fiery Fist then lol

[ShurikVch]

Hunter-variant Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid)I wonder: can it be combined with the Storm Druid from the Dragon #328?



Control body doesn't say anything about controlling yourself
Target: One Medium or smaller creature with humanoid physiologyAs long as your PC fits by the size and "physiology" - why the heck not?

and even if it did, it's a Concentration spell, which in 3.5 means giving up your standard action. So you'd giving up your standard action to force yourself to take a standard action, isn't that a fun little logic bomb?Extraordinary Concentration feat (Complete Adventurer), Swift Concentration skill trick, Sonorous Hum spell, Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm), or - especially - Solicit Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/solicitPsicrystal.htm) :smallwink:

[The Viscount]

I just remembered there's the Draconic Fist ACF from Dragon Magic that can also help you deal electricity damage, if you're not super set on using stunning fist.

[Zaq]

I just remembered there's the Draconic Fist ACF from Dragon Magic that can also help you deal electricity damage, if you're not super set on using stunning fist.

Stunning Fist is a prereq for Sacred Fist. Also, Draconic Fist is tied to your class level, so it would work all of twice per day.

[PhantasyPen]

I just remembered there's the Draconic Fist ACF from Dragon Magic that can also help you deal electricity damage, if you're not super set on using stunning fist.


Stunning Fist is a prereq for Sacred Fist. Also, Draconic Fist is tied to your class level, so it would work all of twice per day.

^ Sadly this.

[Psyren]

I forget if the storm-themed PrC for Ardents is suboptimal or not, but that seems like a place to start.

It's pretty bad. All it gives you is electricity resistance, a measly 1 point of electricity damage on attacks, and the capstone is a free +1 weapon ability. Yay? :smalltongue:

[PhantasyPen]

Alright, time to try out the second potential build for this concept I think.

For race, this time we're going Azurin, from Magic of Incarnum.
Alignment is CE, since this build won't be able to take full advantage of Intuitive Attack.



Levels
Class Features
Feats


Fighter 1
--
Endurance, Bonus: Shape Soulmeld (Lightning Gauntlets), Bonus: Weapon Focus (Spear)


Fighter 1, Spontaneous Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) 1
Aura (Ex), Divine Domain: Destruction&Storm, Turn Undead
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 2
--
Great Fortitude


Fighter 1, Cleric 3
--
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 4
--
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5
Smite Evil 2/Day
Zen Archery


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 1
Enhanced Javelins +1, Electricity Resistance 5
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 2
Shock Weapon
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 3
Storm Walk
Extend Spell


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 4
Resistance to Electricity 10
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 5
Thundering Weapon
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 6
Storm Ride, Enhanced Javelins 2
Persistent Spell


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 7
Resistance to Electricity 15
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 8
Shocking Burst Weapon
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 9
Immunity to Electricity
Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 10
Storm of Elemental Fury
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 10, Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) of Slaughter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofSlaughterClas sFeatures) 1
Detect Good, Aura of Evil, Smite Good 1/day, Rebuke Undead
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 10, Prestige Paladin 2
Divine Grace, Deadly Touch, Divine Mount
Extra Smite


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 10, Prestige Paladin 3
Debilitating Aura, Divine Health
--


Fighter 1, Cleric 5, Stormlord 10, Prestige Paladin 4
Cause Disease 1/week
--



Find yourself an awesome, bitching mount, and you should be ready to smite anyone who disagrees with your god's mercy and love. I initially wanted to use the Smiting cleric ACF, but when I added the prestige paladin levels that play obviously petered out. Lightning Gauntlets are not too powerful, but at low levels they can be rather helpful, and afterwards they're still a continuous damage buff.

[Psyren]

^ Where's the "monk" in that?

[PhantasyPen]

^ Where's the "monk" in that?

Spear fighter. Plenty of martial arts that do that.

Oh wait, I wrote javelin in the weapon focus by accident, derp, fixing.

[Psyren]

Undoubtedly it's still martial arts, but I thought the point was builds that have monk in them. Sorry if I was mistaken.

[PhantasyPen]

Undoubtedly it's still martial arts, but I thought the point was builds that have monk in them. Sorry if I was mistaken.

No problem, I apologize for the confusion, I perhaps could have clarified better. But no, monk levels were never mandatory, just martial art abilities and wisdom SAD.

[Buddy76]

You could be a lesser mechanatrix (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2659.0) to get electriciy healing. If you're using dragon magazine, issue 314 has two prestige classes that could be useful. Master of the north wind advances divine spellcasting (9/10), monk abilities and wild shape (by half the pcr levels, I think). Master of the West Wind advances divine spellcasting (10/10), monk abilities and undead turning. Both classes also grant you the air domain, eventually.

[Sleven]

The oft forgotten shaman class does everything you want. Just take Superior Unarmed Strike and forget about monk altogether.

Per Spell Compendium you can also take any cleric domains you’d like. Regardless, I prefer the shaman exclusive Hero domain on my melee shamans.

It’s my favorite divine spellcasting class for a reason.

[PhantasyPen]

The oft forgotten shaman class does everything you want. Just take Superior Unarmed Strike and forget about monk altogether.

Per Spell Compendium you can also take any cleric domains you’d like. Regardless, I prefer the shaman exclusive Hero domain on my melee shamans.

It’s my favorite divine spellcasting class for a reason.

I'm sorry, where is this class from?

[Buddy76]

I believe it's from Oriental Adventures.

[Psyren]

RIGHT! The Ardent! I keep forgetting that class exists. This only WIS psionic I could think of initially was the PsyWar, and as much as I love them they don't really have the casting power I'm going for. Opening Post has been modified to reflect.

Instead of using Ardent, you can modify your monk to be Int-based and use Psion or Erudite as your casting side. Kung-Fu Genius, Carmendine Monk, and Ascetic Psion will help with that. From there, Tashalatora will keep your monk features advancing while you pack on more manifesting power.