Opinion of Shield Master feat

[keeper2161]

I am not a big fan of Shield Master (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shield-master-combat-final/). You should be able to normally count your shield enchantment as a weapon bonus normally without a feat. Using in-game logic I think a heavily enchanted shield would hurt a lot more then an unenchanted shield. I would think the magic would make a shield denser and gives more mass. Like a 3 pound wooden shield would have the density and mass of a 20 pound steel shield when heavily enchanted but the weight of a 3 pound wooden shield. So getting hit in the face with a 20 pound steel shield would probably hurt a lot more then a 3 pound wooden shield. Although granted both hurt a lot. Shield Master also opens up some cheese. You could have a spiked shield and enchant the shield part with +5. Then enchant the spiked part with +1 and any weapon enchantments you want. Because you track a spiked shield armor and weapon enchantments separately, and because Shield Master says "Add your shield’s enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with the shield as if it were a weapon enhancement bonus", they stack. So while it give it an enchantment bonus it doesn't count as against the spiked part because it's not actually enchanted on the weapon side because the stacking comes from the feat not the weapon. You could have a +5/+1 Flaming Brilliant energy (plus whatever armor/shield enchantments you would want) spiked shield. So it would be a +5 1d6+5 1d6 2d6 Brilliant energy weapon while also giving a +7 shield bonus (a +5 heavy steel shield). Which normally wouldn't be possible as everything, besides artifacts, as a +10 enchantment limit. To anyone that does not have Shield Master it is simply a +5 shield with a +1 flaming holy Brilliant energy spike. At least that's the way I understand enchanting a spiked shield. So to me Shield Master not only does something that should be a base mechanic but it also opens up for the interpretation for cheese. As historically shields were just as often used as weapons as to block something. I mean the buckler (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QJ9-T7OkXU) is a half weapon-half shield...shield.

[BowStreetRunner]

You should be able to normally count your shield enchantment as a weapon bonus normally without a feat.Considering this is a system that requires you to enchant both ends of a double weapon separately, and doesn't give you a bonus to CMB/CMD from magical armor enhancements, I don't think you'll get much traction with your argument.


Using in-game logic I think a heavily enchanted shield would hurt a lot more then an unenchanted shield. I would think the magic would make a shield denser and gives more mass.I'd be very interested to learn where you derived the basis for this in-game hypothesis. I'm not sure I've ever encountered a discussion regarding how much magical enchantments weigh or how much mass they have before.

[Kayblis]

Why would magic add density? The argument has no base at all. Looks like you want a cheaper and better magic weapon with no drawbacks. Also, a wooden shield has the same damage as a metal shield. The only difference they have is HP and hardness.

Shield Master is a bad feat, not because it doesn't work as intended, but because it assumes you have a +X Shield that you use to attack, a lower enchantment on Spikes and somehow you don't cast Greater Magic Weapon on the shield spikes to give it +5 enchant along its special weapon properties. It's a case of "we expect you to have money and buy this common thing, but not buy that other common thing".

[keeper2161]

Well how else would magic improve a shield. Logically it would make it denser, have more mass, but weigh the same. That way when you block a blow the energy has more matter to get through. When you knock a blow aside or attack with the shield it has more mass to throw around. It's magical so the weight wouldn't change.

[Kayblis]

And weapons are easier to wield but hit harder because they both gain weight and lose weight at the same time too? It's magic dude. You can't really explain it with physics, and even then your idea of physics is pretty juvenile.
And a heavier shield doesn't make it easier to block - a well-made wooden shield is very effective in armed combat, the only real benefit of having a steel one is durability. The most important aspects of a shield are size and shape, everything else is mostly fluff.

[TheIronGolem]

Well how else would magic improve a shield.

Off the top of my head:

The enchantment projects a force field slightly in front of the shield, blunting the force of blows before they reach the actual physical shield.

The enchantment projects a force field around the shield's edges, effectively extending its "borders" so that it blocks a larger area.

The enchantment causes the shield to repair itself when dented or punctured in the course of normal wear and tear, so blows that would otherwise have gotten through the damaged areas instead hit a "fresh" shield.

The enchantment subtly guides the wielder's movements, causing them to wield it at an effectively higher degree of skill and block blows they otherwise would have missed.

There are certain to be several others that I haven't thought of yet, and many more that I won't think of but others will.

[keeper2161]

I suppose there are many different way to enchant a shield in-game wise. It's all flavor in the end.

[grarrrg]

Shield Master also opens up some cheese.

It's a feat that requires Bab 11+, and THREE other feats as Pre-Reqs.
I'm perfectly OK with it enabling some Martial-level Cheese.