Fully Optimal Skill Monkey?

[SLOTHRPG95]

So, I was lamenting how backgrounds and lower skill counts make skill monkeys in 5e less super-versatile head-over-heels above Fighters, Clerics, etc. than they were in 3.5e. Only... I think if done correctly they're even MORE head-over-heels crazy. What started as messing around with a potential Bard/Arcane Trickster build that traded the most powerful spells for a bit of extra skill versatility turned into... this:





Race
Background
Base Stats

Level








Half-Elf
Scholar
STR 12

Bard 1
Perception
Acrobatics
Medicine
Flute
Lute
Lyre


Insight
Arcana
DEX 14

Bard 1/Ranger 1
Survival
Favored Enemy (Giant)
Giant





Investigation
History
CON 14

Brd 1/Rgr 1/Cleric 1
Knowledge Domain
Goblin
Orcish
Nature
Religion
Expertise (Nature, Religion)


Common
Draconic
INT 12

Brd 1/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rogue 1
Stealth
Thieves' Tools
Expertise (Insight, Investigation)





Elvish
Primordial
WIS 13

Brd 1/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 1/War 1
Great Old One
Telepathy






Dwarven

CHA 14

Brd 1/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 1/War 2
Eyes of R. K.
Beg. Influence
Deception
Persuasion








Brd 2/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 1/War 2
J. of All Trades











Brd 3/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 1/War 2
College of Lore
Intimidation
Sleight of Hand
Animal Handling
Expertise (Arcana, History)







Brd 4/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 1/War 2
Linguist (INT +1)
Gnomish
Halfling
Undercommon








Brd 4/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 2/War 2












Brd 4/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 3/War 2
Assassin
Disguise Kit
Forgery Kit









Brd 4/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 4/War 2
Skilled
Alchemist's Supplies
Vehicles (Land)
Smith's Tools








Brd 4/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 5/War 2












Brd 4/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2
Expertise (Perception, Survival)











Brd 5/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2












Brd 6/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2












Brd 7/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2












Brd 8/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2
INT +1
WIS +1










Brd 9/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2












Brd 10/Rgr 1/Clr 1/Rog 6/War 2
Expertise (Acrobatics, Stealth)











tl;dr, at 20th level this build is proficient in 16 skills (w/ Emphasis in 10 of them), is fluent in 11 languages, is proficient in 9 tool kits, and as icing on the cake has Jack of All Trades, Telepathy, and Eyes of the Rune Keeper. Not saying this is useful/playable, but this brings up a fun theorycraft question. Is there a (preferably core) build that beats this?

[Lunali]

Personally I'm a fan of scout rogue 11/lore bard 3, picking up skilled feat along the way. This nets 17/18 skills proficient, 8 expertise skills, and reliable talent, giving you an automatic 10 or better on the die, with 6 levels left over for whatever you want.

[Fnissalot]

Don't forget the feat prodigy from XgtE when you already are going half-elf.

[Derpldorf]

Mastermind Rogue 3\Collage of lore bard 3 with the will get you much of what you want and provides a solid base for a skill focused character.

[Sariel Vailo]

Don't forget the feat prodigy from XgtE when you already are going half-elf.

Yeahp super good build btw.

[Hecuba]

I'd probably write a second level of cleric over including Ranger. The ability to pick up a skill proficiency of choice temporarily with Channel Divinity is probably more beneficial for this purpose than simply adding survival.

[Talionis]

I think skill monkeys should focus on expertise, since that sets them apart from anyone else with the other characters who may simply be proficient.

You effectively get all knowledge skills expwrtise with knowledge Cleric and it also gets you the Guidance cantrip. Then I d focus on Rogue 1+ and Bard. Bard 15 gets you Glibness which is awesome.

You really dont need to gimp your character to get all the skills. Better to be able to access spells to enhance your skill checks. Remember that Jack of All helps to cover the few skills you let someone else tackle, but between Jack, Guidance, and Enhance Ability spell even skills you arent proficient at you maybe better than most who are proficient.

[SLOTHRPG95]

I'd probably write a second level of cleric over including Ranger. The ability to pick up a skill proficiency of choice temporarily with Channel Divinity is probably more beneficial for this purpose than simply adding survival.

Sure that flexibility would usually be better but (a) with Jack of All Trades and proficiency in almost everything it's not such a big deal, (b) the level in Ranger also nets another language.


I think skill monkeys should focus on expertise, since that sets them apart from anyone else with the other characters who may simply be proficient.

You effectively get all knowledge skills expwrtise with knowledge Cleric and it also gets you the Guidance cantrip. Then I d focus on Rogue 1+ and Bard. Bard 15 gets you Glibness which is awesome.

You really dont need to gimp your character to get all the skills. Better to be able to access spells to enhance your skill checks. Remember that Jack of All helps to cover the few skills you let someone else tackle, but between Jack, Guidance, and Enhance Ability spell even skills you arent proficient at you maybe better than most who are proficient.

I mean this build already has the most expertises possible, that was actually the first (or zeroth, even) requirement when working on it. Hence the need for six levels of Rogue, instead of just one. Along that note yeah if I were actually going to play this guy I wouldn't do this, it ended up more a question of "how many total languages and proficiencies can I rack up?" for which the answer is I guess at least 39 (replace stat bump of original with Prodigy). In that framework, all else equal tool proficiencies were prioritized over languages which where prioritized over actual skills, if simply since the build already has Jack of All Trades and almost all skill proficiencies, and access to spells like Comprehend Languages and Tongues for (temporary) universal fluency.

For the actual character build I was first looking at, I was just going to do 14-17 levels of Bard (college of Lore) and 3-6 levels of Arcane Trickster. For RP reasons I don't want to splash Cleric... namely the character is an anti-theist and I'm not personally fond of the whole non-deity-following Cleric. Any suggestions to that would also be helpful, although keep in mind my DM will only allow things in non-core (SCAG, XGtE, etc.) on a case-by-case basis.

[Lunali]

You effectively get all knowledge skills expwrtise with knowledge Cleric and it also gets you the Guidance cantrip. Then I d focus on Rogue 1+ and Bard. Bard 15 gets you Glibness which is awesome.

Glibness is nice for chr checks if you can get all your checks to fit into the 1hr a day you can use it, but I'd rather get rogue 11 and have an automatic 10 on everything you're proficient in all the time.

[Talionis]

I was not just suggesting only glibness... 8th level spells known and 9th level spell slots have lots of things that can help. But my point was that by simply dipping 3 levels in Rogue and Knowledge Cleric you get just about as many expertises and you have an ungimped caster. If you prefer ungimped Rogue thats almost the same argument... and if you envision a fairly mundane character with almost no magic then I think its a good way to go, but Knowledge Cleric covers all languanges so dipping other classes for languages seems wasteful.

I just think chasing that last bits of optimizing on the skill monkey costs a lot for very little added. I think you can be a very effective skill monkey with Lore Bard 17/2 Knowledge Cleric/1 Rogue.

[SLOTHRPG95]

I was not just suggesting only glibness... 8th level spells known and 9th level spell slots have lots of things that can help. But my point was that by simply dipping 3 levels in Rogue and Knowledge Cleric you get just about as many expertises and you have an ungimped caster. If you prefer ungimped Rogue thats almost the same argument... and if you envision a fairly mundane character with almost no magic then I think its a good way to go, but Knowledge Cleric covers all languanges so dipping other classes for languages seems wasteful.

I just think chasing that last bits of optimizing on the skill monkey costs a lot for very little added. I think you can be a very effective skill monkey with Lore Bard 17/2 Knowledge Cleric/1 Rogue.

Again, for my actual character there's no way I'm dipping Cleric for RP reasons. And yeah I'm leaning toward only three levels of Rogue, since top-level spells are really tempting, but due to the dynamics of the campaign Uncanny Dodge would go a long way toward even making it to higher level, suggesting a 15/5 split (or 14/6 if I really, really want that extra expertise).

[Matrix_Walker]

I'm fond of Rogue - Scout (3) Bard - Lore (3) Cleric - Knowledge (1) route for 15 skills and 8 expertise. If you went variant human with the skilled feat, you're already there, If you went half elf, you're at 17, and you can take prodigy by taking Bard ot Rogue to 4, giving you the missing skill and a 9th expertise.

But it is neglectful of tools to be sure...

[ReaperChaos]

This is a skill monkey I made. It is a Rogue 7 Mastermind, Lore Bard 10, Hexblade Warlock 2, Ranger 1. It is a Half Elf with the Pirate background. It has 18/18 proficiencies, 8 Expertise Skills, half proficiency on Initiative and proficiency on the following tools: Cards, Harmonica, Thieves tools, Navigation tools, Water Vehicles, Disguise Kit and Forgery Kit. You get 15 proficiencies from Classes, Race and background and the last three from the Skilled Feat.

Combat wise, it's health isn't that great, with a low 144, but it has 18 AC and 20 Charisma. I use Eldritch Blast as my go to spell for damage combined with Agonizing Blast. Most of my spells are buffs, debuffs and battlefield control, to help me succeed. And should the need to use a weapon arise, I can always sneak attack. I got many uses for reactions, bonus actions and actions which can make it tricky to play, but it's better to have many choices than no choices in my opinion. And it was made with point buy, so anyone can make it.


Of course, you don't make this for combat :smallbiggrin: