How insane can a Vorpal Knight get? (Brainstorming)

[SangoProduction]

Hey, those guys who host the site where everyone reads their PF material? Yeah, they released a book with this...interesting class. The Vorpal Knight.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/d20pfsrd-com-publishing/vorpal-knight/

It doesn't actually seem too incredibly broken on its face. Indeed, you don't seem to get anything earlier than a caster, though when you do get it, it's a lot more persistent. Of course, Flight doesn't tend to be a persistent problem - only one when it's being used to circumvent an obstacle, which is often done within the span of the duration. They also get, at max, 1 bonus per level, which only beats the Wilder in terms of Breadth of Capability.

And it's also got this interesting little Pokemon element to it all where you have to 'capture' the souls of those you defeat. So, if the DM says Flight is something he doesn't want to be had, then he can just not present any opportunities for Flight to be stolen....or have said Flight....fly off when you mark it. (That's a **** move!)

I plan on refluffing it to "worshipping and emulating their opponents", but maybe that's just because I don't like an inherent evil fluff to my stuff. If I want to be evil, I'll be evil my own way thank you very much, Pala-dung.

This is actually one of the only martial-ish classes that I actually have a desire to play, outside of a superficial concept. It actually looks like it could be fun to memorialize your opponents.

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But, my thoughts about the class aside, I was wondering just how "Insane" it could possibly ever get, and I think the best place to look would indeed be towards the open ended ability to take the EX and/or SU special attacks of creatures. Because open-endedness is another word for "not tightly constrained power." The natural attacks are also really open ended because it says you also gain rider effects, like Grab. Also the feats.

With 1 reservoir per level, that means you can potentially gain...1 feat per 4 levels (round up), because of the aspect limit for feats. Still, that's in addition to the 1 combat feat per 3 levels, which comes to about doubling your character's normal set of feats. All with a good number being somewhat flexible (in a Pokemon way, rather than Wizard way).

The DR scaling (potentially) at about 1 per level (though it has weird break points) is pretty nice, and is certainly unheard of for martial characters, especially not without substantial monetary cost. But...I mean...actually...looking at it at that rate (assuming you find a sufficient monster that you can somehow kill, probably via Wizard), it is quite good for a frontliner. And it's only taking a single level's worth of Reservoir slots. That does sound kinda powerful if the DM enables it.
-Side note: If you fight a tarrasque at level 30 (the level to be able to absorb its soul, theoretically), and had already killed and absorbed a creature with at least 30 DR, you'd be as immune to its attacks (save the bite) as it is to death. But a level 30 wizard could probably do more than simply be a chew toy.

Stealing spell resistance does sound really juicy. Normally have to pay an arm and a leg for that. Now we can just pillage those *evil* dark elves, choose the plumpest, most experience one, with the most spell resistance, and get it for basically a single level's worth of Reservoir slots. Even better if you raided the highest noble house of the Drow empire, who have 11+Character level SR (you steal their SR, not their feat). Should anticipate retribution from that spider god thing the heathens worship, I guess.

The Natural Armor (potentially) scales at a rate significantly greater than that which could otherwise be gained. To gain the +5 NA you get at level 10 through Amulet of Natural Armor, you'd need to spend basically all of your gold at the same level. And you can continue to progress it. Added along with the full armor proficiency, 1/3 deflection AC bonus, and Cha to AC, this guy could be the hardest to hit bugger in the party.

The immunities earlier than 17th level, aside from fire, are all rather campaign/DM-specific.

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So, what are the most powerful natural/special attacks and feats that you guys could think to steal?

[Von Krieger]

My first thought of getting an extra move action with a Choker soul doesn't work, as it specifies "special attacks" rather that special qualities.

That and not being able to take SLA's limits the worst of the shenanigans (soul nom something to grant endless wishes).

However a Barghest's "Feed" is a special attack, which WOULD allow for a metamorphosis into a Greater Barghest.

In addition because the "Feed" ability is granted by the soul in the reservoir rather innately being a Barghest, you get to keep the ability and thus once a month you can nom a non-evil humanoid corpse to gain +1 on attack rolls, CMB, saves, and skill checks. Plus 5 additional max HP, and a +1 caster level on SLAs per two Growth Points gained from nomming corpses.

Create Spawn is also a special attack. A Wraithpocalypse is totally possible.

[SangoProduction]

My first thought of getting an extra move action with a Choker soul doesn't work, as it specifies "special attacks" rather that special qualities.

That and not being able to take SLA's limits the worst of the shenanigans (soul nom something to grant endless wishes).

However a Barghest's "Feed" is a special attack, which WOULD allow for a metamorphosis into a Greater Barghest.

In addition because the "Feed" ability is granted by the soul in the reservoir rather innately being a Barghest, you get to keep the ability and thus once a month you can nom a non-evil humanoid corpse to gain +1 on attack rolls, CMB, saves, and skill checks. Plus 5 additional max HP, and a +1 caster level on SLAs per two Growth Points gained from nomming corpses.

Create Spawn is also a special attack. A Wraithpocalypse is totally possible.

On the Barghest, it does increase the CR by 1 every 2 times you feats on something, and in Pathfinder CR = level adjustment. The Greater Barghest, however, doesn't seem to have such CR adjustments, if you figure out what stats you gain.

The wraithpocalypse....ooo. A picky DM could get you on the wording that says "by a wraith", and determine that it doesn't proc on you though. The incorporeal touch though is plenty nice to add to a melee rotation.

[dude123nice]

The name of the class though doesn't really fit in any special way. It's like they were trying to broadcast that it was a good martial class without putting any thought to giving it a thematically appropriate name.

[noob]

So it is a bit like consuming creature but as a class rather than as a template and less powerful?
Oh sorry in fact you can steal the powers of a consuming creature so if you can beat one then the gm can go away in another room and you get to gm.

[SangoProduction]

Oh sorry in fact you can steal the powers of a consuming creature so if you can beat one then the gm can go away in another room and you get to gm.

lol. If there is some way to get exponential growth by stealing an attack form of a creature, then quite possibly.

[noob]

lol. If there is some way to get exponential growth by stealing an attack form of a creature, then quite possibly.

Bite everything and get all the universal monster abilities and class features other than spellcasting.
Then consume a spellcaster.
With the spellcasting and the ton of abilities you stole with your curse evading most things will rather be easy and so you just will get the equivalent of a bunch of levels every month(if you can find creatures with a lot of hit dice for their cr then retrain or find creatures with cool powers).
Also eating creatures progress your bab, your saves and your skills at a very high pace.

[SangoProduction]

Bite everything and get all the universal monster abilities and class features other than spellcasting.
Then consume a spellcaster.
With the spellcasting and the ton of abilities you stole with your curse evading most things will rather be easy and so you just will get the equivalent of a bunch of levels every month(if you can find creatures with a lot of hit dice for their cr then retrain or find creatures with cool powers).
Also eating creatures progress your bab, your saves and your skills at a very high pace.

You can't steal abilities, nor spells, only attacks.
Also, where are you getting that it progresses anything? You get to select a single 'aspect' that it possesses, and you qualify for based on your level.

EDIT. OK, I parsed your previous comment incorrectly. You meant to say "Consuming Creature" is a template, and it has the Consume power as a special attack. Yeah. That's absurd, and can quickly become overpowered if you give the VK that ability, and don't tell them to not take it..

[noob]

You can't steal abilities, only attacks.
Also, where are you getting that it progresses anything? You get to select a single 'aspect' that it possesses, and you qualify for based on your level.
I was speaking of what you could do once you stole the consuming creature powers.
Ah yes sorry you would get the power of stealing powers but not the quality that progress bab, saves and skills as second time.
Unless you had the great and simple idea of consuming the consuming creature with Consume (Su) special attack which gives you powers from the eaten creature.

[SangoProduction]

I was speaking of what you could do once you stole the consuming creature powers.
Ah yes sorry you would get the hit dice but not the quality that progress bab, saves and skills as second time.
Unless you had the great and simple idea of consuming the consuming creature with Consume (Su) special attack which gives you powers from the eaten creature.

Yeah. I edited my reply, because I didn't parse that you said Consume Creature Template, rather than consume (as a verb) creature.

[noob]

So it is as simple as that: if there is a vorpal knight then there is a lot of monsters you can not use anymore.
For example a vorpal knight manages to beat an undead lord the create spawn effect would make undead of the same type as the vorpal knight so does it makes undead of the humanoid type(if the vorpal knight had the humanoid type)?
Now if the vorpal knight beats a Doppelrat does it means that now he can have up to 20 duplicates of itself when stressed? (even if the knight needs to become a doppelrat before getting that ability then it is still probably worth it)

Would it give tons of spell access at once when you steal Eye Rays (Su) from an eye king?

[Von Krieger]

if you give the VK that ability, and don't tell them to not take it..

You will not keep me from attaining UNLIMITED POWAH~!

Oh. Wait. You meant Vorpal Knight. Not Von Krieger. Oops!



For example a vorpal knight manages to beat an undead lord the create spawn effect would make undead of the same type as the vorpal knight so does it makes undead of the humanoid type(if the vorpal knight had the humanoid type)?

For an undead lord I think the ability would not work, as Humanoid is not an undead type. But if your Vorpal Knight became a lich somehow...


Now if the vorpal knight beats a Doppelrat does it means that now he can have up to 20 duplicates of itself when stressed?

It would indeed!


Would it give tons of spell access at once when you steal Eye Rays (Su) from an eye king?

You'd have to be able to have both the Eyes or Eyestalks and Eye Rays abilities at the same time, thus limiting it to a Vorpal Knight of certain levels depending on the HD of the Eye King creature.

Otherwise it'd be limited to either two (or however many eyes you naturally have) or zero (because you have no eyestalks).

[SangoProduction]

So it is as simple as that: if there is a vorpal knight then there is a lot of monsters you can not use anymore.
For example a vorpal knight manages to beat an undead lord the create spawn effect would make undead of the same type as the vorpal knight so does it makes undead of the humanoid type(if the vorpal knight had the humanoid type)?

That's the reason why I am crowdsourcing knowledge about the potentially overwhelming. Also, absolutely hillarious find with the undead lord.

This statement does also come with the assumption that the Vorpal Knight is out to 'win' rather than play a game with other players.