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Foeofthelance
2007-09-11, 01:52 PM
So, I'm running a one shot gladiator style arena match for my friends this weekend, and to commemorate the passing of Dragon magazine, I figured I'd throw in a few surprises with the standard beasties.

Then I saw it, midway through the magazine. MEEPO! That dastardly kobold got one last write up, and apparently is the first ever Kobold Green Beret. This of course, includes a Shotgun +1 as part of his equipment. Since it's a level 5 mission, I figured he'd need some back up. Since I'm already going the Kobold-brigade route, I figure who else as a backup squad then Larry, Larry, and Larry? Each one is going to have five class levels (Cleric, Druid, Wizard, and Ranger for Meepo)

Now if I give them the shotguns I'm going to make it a racial weapon, so that they don't need to blow through a feat to use them. The question is thus: Does this make them too deadly? (Shotgun, ranged weapon, 2d8 damage, 30 ft range, -1 damage every increment after.)

Also, any other good monster ideas? The entire scene is being run by dragons, so draconic creatures are preferable, but Bes is making an appearance, as will several other myths, legends, and of course, staples. After all, what would an arena match be without a few lions, tigers, elephants, Tyrannosaurs (For later rounds) and minotaurs?

Duke of URL
2007-09-11, 01:54 PM
Yes it's a bad idea. :smallbiggrin:

However, "Shotgun Wielding Kobolds" is an excellent name for a rock band.

Thinker
2007-09-11, 01:58 PM
Its not a bad idea. 2d8 averages to 9 damage. If you kill your party by dealing 36 damage in one round you may need to consider teaching them how to build characters better.

mikeejimbo
2007-09-11, 02:00 PM
When I first read the title of this thread, out in the top level of the forum, it said "Are Shotgun Wielding Kobolds..." and I immediately inserted "THE BEST IDEA EVER? HECK YEAH!"

Oh, I don't know about balance. But that idea is too amusing to pass up.

Foeofthelance
2007-09-11, 02:01 PM
I'm not worried about balance. I already have some ideas of what they're planning on building, and while technically 4 CR5 kobolds is a level 9-10 CR, for these guys it should be just about fair. Espceially since they might not necessarily be fighting them as a team.

Arakune
2007-09-11, 02:04 PM
Wizard: protection form arrows!
*kobod shoots him and does full damage.
Wizard: Arrg! What happened?!
Kobold A: Although arrows have a good flying speed the bullets of my weapon fly at sonic speed, and your magic works by slowing down the speed of the arrows to the point that either they can't reach you or are deflected, the spell wasn't made to work with things as fast or faster than the sound speed.
Wizard: ... :smalleek: !!!
Kobold: What? *shooting again and killing wizard* I never said my dumb stat was Int.

AKA_Bait
2007-09-11, 02:11 PM
First: Totally amazing idea. Now I have this picture of Tuckers Kobolds with Shotguns in my head.

Second: What technological level is your party at? They might get peeved if Kobolds get shotguns and they can't.

Third: Consider reprocussions. If this is part of an ongoing campagin, and they win, your players have shotguns. Not much ammo probably, but SHOTGUNS. Consider this carefully.

Foeofthelance
2007-09-11, 02:15 PM
Eh, its a one shot, so I'm not worried about it. Though when the Space Gnomes show up the battle might end up getting kind of odd...

Kurald Galain
2007-09-11, 02:18 PM
Meh. I don't think fantasy crossovers with guns are all that much fun.

Drider
2007-09-11, 02:21 PM
if it's a one shot, go for it.

Machete
2007-09-11, 02:21 PM
Sure, send this at them. At the end, tell them they all wake up tired and with 1 Con Damage. Blame it on Night Hags or something who were drunk.

Indon
2007-09-11, 02:25 PM
Its not a bad idea. 2d8 averages to 9 damage. If you kill your party by dealing 36 damage in one round you may need to consider teaching them how to build characters better.

I'm pretty sure 36 damage could down a level 5 character of at least some classes; you'd need an average of roughly 7 hp/level to hit that.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-11, 02:27 PM
if it's a one shot, go for it.

I think that's called a "pump action".

Pronounceable
2007-09-11, 02:34 PM
Ooh, the images mind can create...

A kobold clad in black leather and wearing shades. He's got a shotgun. He says: "Hasta la vista baby!" and blows the human before him.


But tommy guns would be better I think.

Zim
2007-09-11, 02:40 PM
There is no combination of the words "shotgun" and "kobold" that doesn't sound like fun! :biggrin:

Citizen Joe
2007-09-11, 02:44 PM
Probably look something like this. (http://planescapecomic.com/85.html)

blackout
2007-09-11, 03:02 PM
This reminds me of a steampunk adventure my DM put my group through awhile back. We were in a fantasy world, with guns, and mecha, and kevlar, and so on. It was fun. We ran into a group of Goblin bandits with SMGs and rifles once. One of them chucked a grenade at me, and I got blowed up. Fun was had by all. :smallbiggrin:

This sounds like a good idea.

tannish2
2007-09-11, 03:13 PM
yes. shotgun weilding kobolds are retarded. they need grenades and antimatter rifles. (both in the DMG i beleive)

BRC
2007-09-11, 03:41 PM
Shotgun weilding kobolds, are an awsome idea, I have an urge to make a shotgun-kobold avvy now.

Stormcrow
2007-09-11, 06:12 PM
From a purely physics perspective it would be like giving shotguns to emaciated children :P, but it would be pretty funny to watch the Kobolds fly backwards through the air.

ImperiousLeader
2007-09-11, 06:38 PM
I love the idea of shotgun wielding kobolds, but I wonder about their class choices. Making a party of casters with shotguns just dilutes the concept, does the kobold wizard cast fireball, or drop a shotgun blast?

I'd make two of them Fighter 4's with Shot on the Run ... that way you've got Meepo and 2 hit-and-run shotgunners. Back them up with a single cleric or Wizard. Preferably wizard, have the wizard cast haste and then work on summoning tankish creatures, while Meepo and fighters run to and fro firing off shotgun blasts. Make the territory broken up with good cover, so they can hide between shotgun blasts.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-11, 06:51 PM
Shotgun Wielding Kobolds are made of win.

Especially if they don' need no steenkeen' Badgers.

Dervag
2007-09-11, 06:55 PM
Wizard: protection form arrows!
*kobod shoots him and does full damage.
Wizard: Arrg! What happened?!
Kobold A: Although arrows have a good flying speed the bullets of my weapon fly at sonic speed, and your magic works by slowing down the speed of the arrows to the point that either they can't reach you or are deflected, the spell wasn't made to work with things as fast or faster than the sound speed.
Wizard: ... :smalleek: !!!
Kobold: What? *shooting again and killing wizard* I never said my dumb stat was Int.That's really unfair. Protection from Arrows confers a flat damage reduction against nonmagical ranged weapons. If the shotgun pellets/slugs aren't magical, then they have to batter through the DR 10/magic just like everything else.


From a purely physics perspective it would be like giving shotguns to emaciated children :P, but it would be pretty funny to watch the Kobolds fly backwards through the air.Shotguns have a relatively low muzzle velocity; a kobold could probably handle the recoil. Though it would be like an elephant gun to them- they'd have to be in good condition and somewhat experienced with the weapon to avoid getting knocked heels over head.

Grug
2007-09-11, 07:07 PM
^^^^^ or they could just use shotguns appropriate to their size.

I had an idea once for a blasty wizrd who used a gun for spells. Verbal and comatic components would be concentration songs and manipulating the ammo. Fireball one sec, lightning the next, etc. You could stick scrolls or wands in it like shells. good times.

As for the OP question, sa good encounter would be having the Arena flood and fighting on ships, or against sharks.

You could also have them maneuver a veritable minefield of beartraps caught in sand.

Riffington
2007-09-11, 07:12 PM
It is good if reloading is slow, or if a natural 1 means the shotgun blows up in your hand.

Basically, a high level character should prefer a longbow, but for unskilled characters, the shotgun evens the odds.

"G-d created man. Samuel Colt made men equal."

Behold_the_Void
2007-09-11, 07:23 PM
The better question is "how are shotgun wielding kobolds NOT a good idea?"

0oo0
2007-09-11, 07:25 PM
The better question is "how are shotgun wielding kobolds NOT a good idea?"

no, no, because there is no answer to that question

....
2007-09-11, 07:33 PM
Second: What technological level is your party at? They might get peeved if Kobolds get shotguns and they can't.

Not if the setting is good-old Oerth aka Greyhawk aka default D&D setting.

Oerth is connected to several other Prime Material Planes. One of them being Earth.

There's a spaceship crashed on Oerth for goodness sake.

Xuincherguixe
2007-09-11, 08:25 PM
Shotgun wielding Kobolds are made of awesome and win.

Since it sounds like you're looking for strangeness, how about a Goblin that throws flowers as a weapon?

Or a sick cat that just coughs once and dies.

crimson77
2007-09-11, 08:29 PM
I think that one shot arenas can be an excellent idea, it can allow for some mindless hack&slash. A few thoughts:

1. I think that Shotgun wielding kolbolds are a great idea. Arenas can be important for both the DM and players to get some monster and character builds out of their system

2. Make sure that you pick a hieratic structure of monsters for them to defeat.

3. Allow them to level up, this can be very rewarding to the players and keep things interesting. Additionally give them a cash reward after each battle so that they can purchase magical items and healing

4. Incorporate a reward from this activity into your regular game (e.g., the winning player gets to roll on the major magic items table).

5. Throw in a mystery surprise for the last battle. One thing off the top of my head, which might give closure to the arena is after the players have together beaten the final monster and are ready for the last battle. Have them all enter the arena and get to separate areas and tell them they have to fight each other. The last one standing gets a major magical item, second place gets a medium magic item, third place gets a minor magic item, and last place gets a mundane magical item. The items are items that are usable by their current characters in another campaign.

Foeofthelance
2007-09-11, 09:18 PM
Hmm, I should probably clarify. When I say one shot, I mean one shot. As in, I'm flying out to Colorado from New York for Nan Des Kon, hanging out with them there, and then probably doing this either saturday or sunday night. This isn't part of a campaign. They won't level up or get paid, though there will be some dragons and draconics, chucking items and spells into the arena every now and then. Think of it as Smash Bros. D&D style, with some really bizzare events.

MrNexx
2007-09-11, 09:43 PM
I completely misread the thread title as "Is a Shotgun Wedding Kobold a Bad Idea", and thought "What the heck is going on in his campaign?"

BardicDuelist
2007-09-11, 09:46 PM
I completely misread the thread title as "Is a Shotgun Wedding Kobold a Bad Idea", and thought "What the heck is going on in his campaign?"

You made my day.

RAGE KING!
2007-09-11, 09:53 PM
First: Totally amazing idea. Now I have this picture of Tuckers Kobolds with Shotguns in my head.

Second: What technological level is your party at? They might get peeved if Kobolds get shotguns and they can't.

Third: Consider reprocussions. If this is part of an ongoing campagin, and they win, your players have shotguns. Not much ammo probably, but SHOTGUNS. Consider this carefully.

...technological level is a good point...*tosses grenade*

Kobolds: ARRGH! *dies*

Irreverent Fool
2007-09-12, 07:37 AM
^^^^^ or they could just use shotguns appropriate to their size.

I had an idea once for a blasty wizrd who used a gun for spells. Verbal and comatic components would be concentration songs and manipulating the ammo. Fireball one sec, lightning the next, etc. You could stick scrolls or wands in it like shells. good times.

As for the OP question, sa good encounter would be having the Arena flood and fighting on ships, or against sharks.

You could also have them maneuver a veritable minefield of beartraps caught in sand.

There's a Gunmage base class in Iron Kingdoms d20 that's mechanically compatible with D&D that pretty much does that.

Arakune
2007-09-12, 11:25 AM
That's really unfair. Protection from Arrows confers a flat damage reduction against nonmagical ranged weapons. If the shotgun pellets/slugs aren't magical, then they have to batter through the DR 10/magic just like everything else.

Shotguns have a relatively low muzzle velocity; a kobold could probably handle the recoil. Though it would be like an elephant gun to them- they'd have to be in good condition and somewhat experienced with the weapon to avoid getting knocked heels over head.

Read my post: That spell wasn't made to work with things as fast or faster than the sound speed.

You pull an arrow and it will fly at some speed, but it is possible to catch a arrow with your bare hands with the right feats. Try to do it or even to evade a bullet already fired that are in your straight direction. Impossible unless epic level or with more specific spell.
And yes, It IS fair.

But a spell : Protection from Bullets (V,S,M, 3rd Level, absorvs 20 points of balistic damage, last for 1min/level, material component is a piece of ceramic crafted in the shape of a shield) surely could and will work.

shaddy_24
2007-09-12, 06:11 PM
Heh, heh, that sounds awesome. I would love to fight against those things. It would be sweet to come up with tactics to counter the effects of such a weapon.

I like the idea of flooding the field for one of the battles and putting in ships, sharks and other water hazards.

You could also have a challange to stay on a single small platform. Try something like 100x100 feet. Somewhere it's almost impossible to get far away from your enemy. The challange is to knock off all your other opponents, whether or not you kill them.

You could also try that with a series of raised platforms, some with bridges between them, and touching the ground results in disqualification.

Try to throw them against experts in their particular battle. Someone who has won every time they fought in this particular challange and has feats, items and abilities suited to that battle. Then the players get the accomplishment of being better at that battle then their foe when they win.

Dervag
2007-09-12, 06:18 PM
Read my post: That spell wasn't made to work with things as fast or faster than the sound speed.You can assert that, but that isn't the way Protection from Arrows is described in the standard rules. In the SRD it doesn't say a blasted thing about how the spell produces the resistance to missile weapons. Maybe it generates this invisible force field that doesn't have to catch anything. Maybe it gives you practically impenetrable skin with respect to missile weapons. Who knows?

But it doesn't say anything about only working against slow-moving missiles, or against arrows and not against bullets. So your player is reading the spell description and expecting protection from ranged weapons like it says in the rules, and then you just ambush them by claiming that a particular category of ranged weapons isn't covered, rules or no rules.

As a houserule it would be fine except that it's really jerkish to pull that out of your... hat and throw it at the player.

If you're going to arbitrarily change the rules of the game during play, then it isn't D&D; it's Calvinball. And Calvinball isn't very fun except for six-year-olds and stuffed animals.

"Yeah, that spell that protects you against all nonmagical missile weapons? Well, it doesn't protect you against this nonmagical missile weapon! Hahaha! Eat hot lead, sucker!" isn't a very good DMing style.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-12, 06:23 PM
"Yeah, that spell that protects you against all nonmagical missile weapons? Well, it doesn't protect you against this nonmagical missile weapon! Hahaha! Eat hot lead, sucker!" isn't a very good DMing style.

Interestingly, that means that spell protects one from even nonmagical ICBMs.

skywalker
2007-09-12, 06:30 PM
I completely misread the thread title as "Is a Shotgun Wedding Kobold a Bad Idea", and thought "What the heck is going on in his campaign?"

Me too.



You pull an arrow and it will fly at some speed, but it is possible to catch a arrow with your bare hands with the right feats. Try to do it or even to evade a bullet already fired that are in your straight direction. Impossible unless epic level or with more specific spell.
And yes, It IS fair.

My daddy once catch a bullet... caught... catcha... caught a bullet with his bare hands. /rush hour


Fax, it would only protect you against the first 10 points of damage from the impact of the ICBM. Presumably, it's putting out massive amounts of explosive damage(which isn't ballistic) and probably nuclear damage(I vote for a new rule: Nuclear/Psionics/Magic Transparency :smallbiggrin: )


EDIT: I got carried away with jokes, and forgot my original input, which is that for most 5th level characters, 36 damage is really scary. For some 8th level characters, it's scary.

Dervag
2007-09-12, 07:01 PM
Interestingly, that means that spell protects one from even nonmagical ICBMs.My reply mirrors that of skywalker's:

First of all, it'll only protect you against being hit over the head by the ICBM- a fireball such as is produced by an exploding nuclear bomb isn't a missile weapon.

Second of all, even if the ICBM is just hitting you over the head, it's the size of an eighteen-wheeler truck and travelling thousands of miles per hour. It should hit hard enough that a puny DR 10/magic isn't going to help much.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-12, 07:14 PM
My reply mirrors that of skywalker's:

First of all, it'll only protect you against being hit over the head by the ICBM- a fireball such as is produced by an exploding nuclear bomb isn't a missile weapon.

Second of all, even if the ICBM is just hitting you over the head, it's the size of an eighteen-wheeler truck and travelling thousands of miles per hour. It should hit hard enough that a puny DR 10/magic isn't going to help much.

Oh, I know. I'm just amused at the irony of avoiding the damage of the collision but still being toastified by the resultant explosion.

MrNexx
2007-09-12, 07:28 PM
I'm somewhat in favor of not treating firearms as normal weapons... not because of speed, but realize something.

According to a technical reading of the rules, every 2nd level monk can deflect a single bullet per round. Since a shotgun blast is counted as a single projectile, they can deflect a single shotgun blast each round.

Arakune
2007-09-12, 07:32 PM
:smallsigh: They need to make up a better name for that spell.

At least the description of the spell are right it protecs you from general ranged attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm), not 'arrows'. That make sense too.

Now the problem is: 2d8 are too low (since you can't scale up the damage of this kind of weapon), and I don't know if the DMG or d20 modern cover all the sweet bullet types shotgun can fire.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-12, 07:33 PM
I'm somewhat in favor of not treating firearms as normal weapons... not because of speed, but realize something.

According to a technical reading of the rules, every 2nd level monk can deflect a single bullet per round. Since a shotgun blast is counted as a single projectile, they can deflect a single shotgun blast each round.

Or, hell, one that takes the Return Shot feat can reverse the course of a shotgun blast once per round. With his bare hands.

Arakune
2007-09-12, 07:41 PM
I'm somewhat in favor of not treating firearms as normal weapons... not because of speed, but realize something.

According to a technical reading of the rules, every 2nd level monk can deflect a single bullet per round. Since a shotgun blast is counted as a single projectile, they can deflect a single shotgun blast each round.

I guess in d20 modern (at least from were a d20 modern based game was released here) you need something to deflect or reflect bullets of normal type (deal normal ballistic damage), but some kinds of bullets (like the normal shotgun bullet) the feat doesn't apply too perfectly.

Also, unless your never saw a shotgun in action (even in a movie) it's really impossible for any DM to accept that rule for these kinds of weapons.

Also, I think the monk need a different set of rules to deal with guns. Again, because of seed and various kinds of others problems.


Or, hell, one that takes the Return Shot feat can reverse the course of a shotgun blast once per round. With his bare hands.

Looks fair, since it's a psionic feat.

Mewtarthio
2007-09-12, 07:51 PM
Oh, I know. I'm just amused at the irony of avoiding the damage of the collision but still being toastified by the resultant explosion.

Not if you've got Evasion (no matter what the Reflex DC is ruled at, you've still got a 5% chance). Of course, the point's moot, since ICBMs explode in midair, but it's still funny to imagine a monk swatting a nuclear missile out of the sky and walking away unscathed.

MrNexx
2007-09-12, 07:52 PM
Also, unless your never saw a shotgun in action (even in a movie) it's really impossible for any DM to accept that rule for these kinds of weapons.

Yeah, that would go in the "No way in Niflheim" realm for me, too... but that's the RAW, stupid as it is.


Also, I think the monk need a different set of rules to deal with guns. Again, because of seed and various kinds of others problems.

Personally, I think guns in general need a slightly different set of rules; not quite standard missile weapons, but not quite magic weapons, either.

Arakune
2007-09-12, 08:01 PM
Ah, but you must remember that there always the rule 0 and after some tries ("Wait, since when your monk can deflect all that tiny lead bullets that goes in all directions at same time? -- Uhm... magic?").

Good thing I still have my copy of AÇÃO!!! (the book I said early).

horseboy
2007-09-12, 08:02 PM
Personally, I think guns in general need a slightly different set of rules; not quite standard missile weapons, but not quite magic weapons, either.

IIRC, shield did stop bullets in 2nd. Much to the aggravation of giffs everywhere.

skywalker
2007-09-12, 08:03 PM
Not if you've got Evasion (no matter what the Reflex DC is ruled at, you've still got a 5% chance). Of course, the point's moot, since ICBMs explode in midair, but it's still funny to imagine a monk swatting a nuclear missile out of the sky and walking away unscathed.

Hmmm, they usually go off how far up? 500-5000ft? Ah, you'd have to have somebody throw you, then. That's unfortunate. Maybe you could airwalk to it... although not nearly as cool as jumping.

Arakune
2007-09-12, 08:10 PM
Hmmm, they usually go off how far up? 500-5000ft? Ah, you'd have to have somebody throw you, then. That's unfortunate. Maybe you could airwalk to it... although not nearly as cool as jumping.

You always could say the attack doesn't allow a reflex check. Problem solved (Why some DMs forget that little, beautiful detail?)

MrNexx
2007-09-12, 08:12 PM
IIRC, shield did stop bullets in 2nd. Much to the aggravation of giffs everywhere.

The shield spell was defense against it, but not sovereign.

Mewtarthio
2007-09-12, 08:22 PM
Hmmm, they usually go off how far up? 500-5000ft? Ah, you'd have to have somebody throw you, then. That's unfortunate. Maybe you could airwalk to it... although not nearly as cool as jumping.

You mean with all the crazy optimizers out there, nobody's developed an ECL 20 character who can deflect "arrows" and jump high enough to intercept an ICBM? I find that difficult to fathom. :smallwink:

Ramza00
2007-09-12, 09:51 PM
How is this different than a group of kobolds with socrching ray. Especially since you only need a +2 caster level boost to get 8d6 damage. (Spell thematics, elemental spellcasting, draconic power, and/or reserve feat will each give you a +1 caster level boost)

Dervag
2007-09-12, 11:12 PM
I'm somewhat in favor of not treating firearms as normal weapons... not because of speed, but realize something.

According to a technical reading of the rules, every 2nd level monk can deflect a single bullet per round. Since a shotgun blast is counted as a single projectile, they can deflect a single shotgun blast each round.Your idea makes sense.

The problem comes when you pull that revised treatment out of thin air to ambush the PCs with. Then you're changing the rules in mid-game, which is an entirely different affair from coming up with a houserule and warning the players in advance that "there can be guns, and they bypass most of your methods for deflecting and blocking missile weapons."

This is especially true in a one-shot adventure where the PCs can't even up the score by picking up guns and using them against enemies who would be immune to ordinary musclepowered ranged weapons (like wizards with Wind Walls up).


:smallsigh: They need to make up a better name for that spell.

At least the description of the spell are right it protecs you from general ranged attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm), not 'arrows'. That make sense too.Once upon a time, it was called "Protection from Normal Missiles." Of course, back then it conferred complete immunity, too.


Not if you've got Evasion (no matter what the Reflex DC is ruled at, you've still got a 5% chance). Of course, the point's moot, since ICBMs explode in midair, but it's still funny to imagine a monk swatting a nuclear missile out of the sky and walking away unscathed.That assumes that you can use a Reflex save to get half damage from a nuclear explosion. I'd make it a different save structure, especially at close range, something like "if you fail, you get disintegrated; if you pass, you take an insane amount of damage."

Or you can just make nuclear explosions damage that it takes a Fortitude save to withstand, in which case Evasion is useless against them.


How is this different than a group of kobolds with socrching ray. Especially since you only need a +2 caster level boost to get 8d6 damage. (Spell thematics, elemental spellcasting, draconic power, and/or reserve feat will each give you a +1 caster level boost)A bunch of kobold warrior-types with guns has an entirely different flavor from a bunch of kobold wizard-types with scorching rays.

MrNexx
2007-09-12, 11:55 PM
Your idea makes sense.

The problem comes when you pull that revised treatment out of thin air to ambush the PCs with. Then you're changing the rules in mid-game, which is an entirely different affair from coming up with a houserule and warning the players in advance that "there can be guns, and they bypass most of your methods for deflecting and blocking missile weapons."

I agree.

My personal rule is not to change rules during a game unless we all get to the point of "this is stupid". If someone brought this up before a game, I'd laugh and say "No way." If they brought it up in game, I'd let them try (a reflex save against the attack roll, for example), but I'd probably rule against it, long term.

Foeofthelance
2007-09-13, 03:42 PM
Now the problem is: 2d8 are too low (since you can't scale up the damage of this kind of weapon), and I don't know if the DMG or d20 modern cover all the sweet bullet types shotgun can fire.

As far as the shotguns are concerned, I'm just going to use the stats given for it in Dragon. It is just simpler that way.

As for spells, feats, etc, I'm just going to rule its a slug, and let spells perform as normal, with lesser damage being a result of deceleration. Yes, Yes, I know there's no way it will slow down enough in 30 feet to do less damage, to which I say, :P