View Full Version : 3rd Ed Campaign Concept: Taking the W.A.G.E.
I wanted to gauge potential interest/viability of a concept I had this morning.
It's a Metroidvania meets Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire with maybe a little Dark Souls thrown in for good measure.
The W.A.G.E. is: Wizarding Academy Graduation Exam.
Applicants meet all the requirements to become a level 1 Wizard, but they haven't been granted their spellbooks yet. They are sent into an elaborate obstacle course that commonly takes a number of weeks to complete. Surviving the exam isn't guaranteed, as part of the final lesson is that the world of Wizards is rarely safe or sure of anything.
In the course are a few pages from spellbooks written on them. Once collected, the aspiring mages have to find a safe place to spend an hour preparing the newfound spell to their slot.
Examinees are typically sent in groups of 3 or 4 (and whether the exam is considered competitive or cooperative tends to be under the prerogative of the mage that conducts the exam, but if competitive, the environmental challenges are typically scaled down).
The objective is to escape the maze, but only the most cunning and adaptable students will graduate to become Wizards, thereby earning their right to their first Spellbook and their selection of their first spells from the Wizard's library. After their first set of spells, they have to buy their later spells by going into the world to do research and learn valuable information which they exchange their findings for access to more of the library.
Students who forfeit the exam don't become full wizards, but are assigned clerk positions helping the wizards with bookkeeping.
Kelb_Panthera
2018-07-23, 06:01 AM
The only thing that really leaps out at me is the fact it only takes 15 minutes to prepare a single spell if you have an open slot for it. If, for whatever reason, they can't cast read magic then it could take them days to decipher the spell. If it's not one they already know they get -one- try to learn it and, if they fail, have to wait until level-up to try again.
I'm also curious. Do theses applicants come from other classes? A level 1 wizard with no spells and no spellbook is just a commoner in a funny hat.
Good points. I have ideas and I forgot to add them.
I forgot it only takes 15 min to fill an empty slot. Still, they'd have to find a quiet place to study.
They have only 1 level wizard with no spellbook. But it's more than commoner. It's commoner with empty spell slots.
The point is they start piecing a spellbook together page by page via navigating the course.
Finally, I was probably going to houserule cantrips as at will abilities that don't use slots and don't need preparation. Just because I can't recall all cantrips from all sources, I'd start by limiting it to PHB cantrips and players can request cantrips from other sources if they want them included.
Good points. I have ideas and I forgot to add them.
I forgot it only takes 15 min to fill an empty slot. Still, they'd have to find a quiet place to study.
They have only 1 level wizard with no spellbook. But it's more than commoner. It's commoner with empty spell slots.
The point is they start piecing a spellbook together page by page via navigating the course.
Finally, I was probably going to houserule cantrips as at will abilities that don't use slots and don't need preparation. Just because I can't recall all cantrips from all sources, I'd start by limiting it to PHB cantrips and players can request cantrips from other sources if they want them included.
Since the competitors are wizards I am quite sure I could get a lot of followers by starting propose the ones who gives up in the middle(or even before) and other such people to join me and to have my help in the wizardry world.
(and propose to give them copies of my spells at a 10 gp per spell level fee(I would spam repair to make copies of varied spell-books also I would give them a starter spellbook))
Then I would gain loads of money from the ones that buys spells from me later(because I would sell them for rather cheap) unless I start having concurrence with competitive costs but then I would be happy because it would mean I would get all the spells I want for cheap) and I would have a lot of young wizards that knows me.
Since the competitors are wizards I am quite sure I could get a lot of followers by starting propose the ones who gives up in the middle(or even before) and other such people to join me and to have my help in the wizardry world.
(and propose to give them copies of my spells at a 10 gp per spell level fee(I would spam repair to make copies of varied spell-books also I would give them a starter spellbook))
Then I would gain loads of money from the ones that buys spells from me later(because I would sell them for rather cheap) unless I start having concurrence with competitive costs but then I would be happy because it would mean I would get all the spells I want for cheap) and I would have a lot of young wizards that knows me.
You're making a lot of assumptions about the surrounding world, when the game concept more or less begins and ends with the exam itself (unless I'm misunderstanding your intent, which is very possible).
I guess have fun. Seems a little irrelevant to the game concept.
You're making a lot of assumptions about the surrounding world, when the game concept more or less begins and ends with the exam itself (unless I'm misunderstanding your intent, which is very possible).
I guess have fun. Seems a little irrelevant to the game concept.
Well the starting point is that I am a spellbookless wizard of level 1.
I could decide "nope I do not want to risk my life in a dangerous maze" then start doing a work for getting enough money for buying some spells(to wizards that do not care from where the money comes or thieves who stole spells and so probably does not care to who he sells them as long as he makes a good benefit) and then start selling spellcasting service to non wizards(I would probably get at most 1gp from one cast spell since people are not very rich) then once I have enough money to pay the basic equipment to adventure and have my 3 allies get some spells too(most of them copied from my spellbook but ink costs a whole lot(like 100 or 200 gp per page(I forgot))) we can start adventuring in places safer than the exam since not all the adventures have to be about fighting and traps (and be sure that it will not be a situation of competition which is a thing that could happen in the exam) then once we reach level 3 we can get the repair spell and start the business I indicated and win lots of money.
I mean seriously why go in a dangerous maze which is known for killing people?
It is simply that I find the premise of the adventure sightly silly (but it is perfectly fine as long as you can find an explanation that nearly have sense that explains why you can waste people that are as much precious as wizards of level 1 by sending them without spells in a maze)
If you don't buy the premise, I don't know that there's much hope of changing that. Any explanation will likely just be shot down because you clearly have a different game you're playing before we start.
But I guess that's pretty much the point of the thread is to get feedback about the concept and "hard to buy into" is a valid criticism.
That said, the first thing I can think of that makes your plans not work is supposing that long ago epic wizards worked hard to monopolize spell knowledge, then founded the academy to control public access. Breaking the rules risks angering epic wizards, so even thieves generally don't bother and when they do, they jack up prices so high you'd be halfway through your career to get black market spellbooks.
That said, the first thing I can think of that makes your plans not work is supposing that long ago epic wizards worked hard to monopolize spell knowledge, then founded the academy to control public access. Breaking the rules risks angering epic wizards, so even thieves generally don't bother and when they do, they jack up prices so high you'd be halfway through your career to get black market spellbooks.
Then the question is why do those epic level wizards agree to let people be wizards and buy/research spells only if they go through that dangerous exam?
Normally if the task is to control access it is either because they do not want dangerous people to have spells(in which case they should not do an exam picking only the crafty and smart people which are dangerous or they would manage to have "accidents" killing the people who have good ideas)
Or because they only wants their friends in which is the most likely case (in which case the exams would probably be way easier for the people they like and way harder for the people they do not like and so in fact the results probably depends on whenever the adventurers managed to be liked before going in the exams so it would probably be way harder if they are people who min max by dropping charisma in fact the campaign would then start by hidden charisma rolls(unless a player have the idea to say he tries to get friends with the high placed wizards before the exams in his back story) and the ones who succeed manage to survive and the ones who fails does not survive)
It could even be a mix of the two like wanting their friends to come but only if they are safe and then if their friends seems too much creative during the exam they kill their friends with regret or simply manage to make that friend lose without dying
In all the cases in fact the exam would not really be a test of intelligence (in fact in the first case and the third case being too smart in game(too many good ideas and solving enigmas too fast and fighting with excessively efficient tactics) would make you likely to die) but the players would not guess and the surprise would hit them when in the end they discover they did everything wrong.(dumping cha would basically be a really bad idea if it works in the second or third way and having someone who does not have a personality who makes friends easily would be a bad idea too)
The "twist" the adventurers might discover could be fun and I appreciate the idea of that campaign.
The exam would just be a way to get rid of wizards with too much potential or of wizards they do not like but in no cases an exam to select the skilled wizards.
Then the question is why do those epic level wizards agree to let people be wizards and buy/research spells only if they go through that dangerous exam?
Why was the triwizard tournament a deadly competition?
Obviously, this exam isn't meant to actually kill people, but contestants know their life is at risk. I work around power equipment in a warehouse, so I can tell you the scenario of unwanted, but acceptable fatal risk is just part of some jobs.
In fact, that's probably more the lesson behind the exam. If you plan to be a wizard ADVENTURER, be prepared for the risks. If you can't take the heat, stick to a desk job.
But really, the control on access probably comes from old traditions. Wizards blocked access to wizardry during the barbaric age of swords and sorcery (they couldn't trust the uneducated, superstitious masses), but since then wizarding has developed civilization to a point that joining the academy is as simple as submitting an application.
The WAGE at this point is sort of like Basic Training for the military, except in a world where knowledge is the greatest power, schoolhouses become the training ground.
Why was the triwizard tournament a deadly competition?
Obviously, this exam isn't meant to actually kill people, but contestants know their life is at risk. I work around power equipment in a warehouse, so I can tell you the scenario of unwanted, but acceptable fatal risk is just part of some jobs.
In fact, that's probably more the lesson behind the exam. If you plan to be a wizard ADVENTURER, be prepared for the risks. If you can't take the heat, stick to a desk job.
But really, the control on access probably comes from old traditions. Wizards blocked access to wizardry during the barbaric age of swords and sorcery (they couldn't trust the uneducated, superstitious masses), but since then wizarding has developed civilization to a point that joining the academy is as simple as submitting an application.
The WAGE at this point is sort of like Basic Training for the military, except in a world where knowledge is the greatest power, schoolhouses become the training ground.
Well you did not read my whole post.
I used a question as a topic and developed on it.
I see no reasons why epic wizards or teachers would want to go "oh you want to adventure well for avoiding you to die from adventuring we are going to make you have an adventure which can kill you too" (even worse for a teacher which would suffer the pain of the loss of one of his disciples) which means that if people can die from that there will probably be more and more watering down of the stuff.
Also non adventuring wizards are very useful when given spells even if they are level 1 so why waste them by not giving them spells that fits to an non adventuring wizard?
Basically that tradition now is utterly outdated and real life people when they have outdated traditions usually try to keep the form but often forget the spirit so it would probably become safer and safer until it becomes a formality.
So I would probably ask if I can do that exam 30 years later when it will be way safer(and I would spam diplomacy and spread the idea that dangerous exams is a problem since anyway the adventuring world is not dangerous unless there is magical concurrence to wizardry or evil wizards which are more important to counter than it is important to prevent access to wizards that gives up on the exam).
Also spell research is a thing and level 1 wizards with no spells in their spellbook can research level 9 spells just as fast as level 17 wizards so I am quite sure that it is a waste to not let the wizards who did not do their exam not research spells while it could increase a lot the speed at which spell diversity increase.(in fact they would probably often propose to give such services to wizards)
Also in harry potter the wizards and witches are clearly proven to have trouble keeping up with muggles due to excessive traditionalism and excess of attempts to destroy knowledge (which is why there is so many things that are told to be no longer possible to do: there is a lot of people who hates letting knowledge be transferred).
But if in your setting magical things other than wizards exists(such as sorcerers or dragons or outsiders or clerics of gods of progress) then they will get a lot of competition with non traditionalist magic users and therefore disappear if they trap themselves in tradition especially if it thins their ranks and so refusing spell access to non adventuring wizards would be a huge waste to the speed of the progress of wizarding magic.
You never told there was other magic users so we are going to assume the only competition will be technological progress but if there is only technological progress as opposition adventuring is probably safe until you face other wizards.
but if you face other wizards and if there is evil wizards then it means the epic wizards are not doing their job of controlling the wizard population or of enforcing law to wizards efficiently and so going around the taboo is probably easy since they probably care about it less than they care about wizards that are a danger to them.
So basically the wizards are slowly killing their own civilisation due to tradition(and making teachers sad in the process) or I can wait 30 years and have an easier exam(and be more prepared by talking with people who went through various iterations of that exam and learning more about tactics) or their taboo is less important to enforce than it is important for them to fight evil wizards and/or dangerous concurrent magic users.
If it is the first of the list I just gave then helping wizards who skip the exam to get spells(and starting to network with the teachers who had students who died and get them behind me) would be even more important.
You're still way overthinking it. I can arbitrarily set whatever world conditions necessary to make it work, if need be, but no amount of such effort will ever be enough if you just don't care.
You wait 30 years, spam diplomacy, and get trounced by high level archmages whose job it is to oppose you and who have more social pedigree. You end up as Filch, cleaning up the halls for the students who are taking the exam.
Wizards aren't in competition with other magic users. Clerics don't give you magic, they teach you prayers and then gods do magic for you. Druids are the same, but with nature essence or elemental spirits. It's not so much empowering yourself as much as giving yourself to a cause and being useful enough to merit being invested into. Sorcerers exist, but their origin is biological, so by definition, you can't compete with them because you can't become one if you aren't already one. In this setting, Wizardry is the only path to magic on your own terms, which is a big reason why the archmages of ye olde times decided the community of wizards should be self governing to protect the rest of the world from thr potential of wizards (and they probably police sorcerers to some degree under a law of, "just don't hurt people or mess up the universe, K?")
You seem to think young potential wizards are a precious commodity. Not much more than any other young person. Sure, their potential has value, but there are just so many of them that it's really not a great tragedy to lose some of them (besides the general tragedy of the loss of any life, which isn't small by any measure).
If you are the kind of character who doesn't want to take an exam because it can be lethal, I suppose you wouldn't be interested in dungeon delving for arcane knowledge, which has a much greater risk of killing you. If you're not into that kind of life, you can work a desk job, but then you'll never live the Heroic life that grants XP necessary to level up. Sure, you'll get a handful of spells in your off brand spellbook from illicit deals, but you aren't going to be using any higher than level 1 and what kinds of non lethal adventures are you planning?
Or, you campaign 30 years to make the test less dangerous, pass your test, get your spellbook, get assigned a mission, then die on the first dungeon because you're still just a level 1 wizard, but one who never was prepared to handle the risk. Congratulations?
You're still way overthinking it. I can arbitrarily set whatever world conditions necessary to make it work, if need be, but no amount of such effort will ever be enough if you just don't care.
You wait 30 years, spam diplomacy, and get trounced by high level archmages whose job it is to oppose you and who have more social pedigree. You end up as Filch, cleaning up the halls for the students who are taking the exam.
Wizards aren't in competition with other magic users. Clerics don't give you magic, they teach you prayers and then gods do magic for you. Druids are the same, but with nature essence or elemental spirits. It's not so much empowering yourself as much as giving yourself to a cause and being useful enough to merit being invested into. Sorcerers exist, but their origin is biological, so by definition, you can't compete with them because you can't become one if you aren't already one. In this setting, Wizardry is the only path to magic on your own terms, which is a big reason why the archmages of ye olde times decided the community of wizards should be self governing to protect the rest of the world from thr potential of wizards (and they probably police sorcerers to some degree under a law of, "just don't hurt people or mess up the universe, K?")
You seem to think young potential wizards are a precious commodity. Not much more than any other young person. Sure, their potential has value, but there are just so many of them that it's really not a great tragedy to lose some of them (besides the general tragedy of the loss of any life, which isn't small by any measure).
If you are the kind of character who doesn't want to take an exam because it can be lethal, I suppose you wouldn't be interested in dungeon delving for arcane knowledge, which has a much greater risk of killing you. If you're not into that kind of life, you can work a desk job, but then you'll never live the Heroic life that grants XP necessary to level up. Sure, you'll get a handful of spells in your off brand spellbook from illicit deals, but you aren't going to be using any higher than level 1 and what kinds of non lethal adventures are you planning?
Or, you campaign 30 years to make the test less dangerous, pass your test, get your spellbook, get assigned a mission, then die on the first dungeon because you're still just a level 1 wizard, but one who never was prepared to handle the risk. Congratulations?
Why would I go in a dungeon?
Also I would not be level 1 since I would have gained lots of xp by solving a social problem of excess of traditionalism which is in fact a hard thing to do and which should have granted me xp also I had tons of social encounters to convince people and social encounters should probably grant xp since those are advancing me toward the objective of ending that exam(as meaning making it disappear) once and for all.
Xp is not exclusively granted by traps and monsters: fixing problems of a society that would risk to collapse in traditionalism should be rewarded too.
and if xp is granted by traps and monsters instead of being granted by solving problems and adventures then there is ways to abuse it like doing repeated drills like "beat a frog every day" which can make you reach level 9 without any danger since frogs are cr 1/10 but have no attacks then at that level there is cr3 traps you can beat without danger(fireball traps) due to them being unable to one shot you once you cast the right protection spell(there is one which can absorb the first 90 fire damage) so you can gain two more levels from repeated fire ball traps then you can use traps of fire storm which are cr 8 and reach up to level 17 and thus have ninth level spells.
So the wizards could go through the exam then not adventure but use their cool level 1 spells (or do adventures of the social kind where risks is more "getting shunned by society" than "getting killed by a monster") and then there would be an adventuring exam separate from the magic exam because having a dangerous exam for adventuring is not as much nonsensic as a dangerous exam for spellcasting which is safe unless you do that in dangerous situations.
Also competing with sorcerers make sense since they have high charisma and magical powers they would probably have a lot of kids and so the proportion of sorcerers relatively with the rest of the population could increase over time until everybody is a sorcerer.
And ideals can be teached too so if there is clerics of the god of progress they will probably teach their ideal in better and better ways and have more and more clerics as time goes.
So I think the following structure would work better in a wizard society:
studies for understanding spellcasting
one safe exam for getting spellcasting.
Complementary studies for if you want to get in adventuring that involve fighting monsters(while being watched by a teacher which will rescue you if you fail at fighting the monster) and facing traps for training for the adventuring exam.
One exam for getting the right to adventure that can be unsafe since adventuring is dangerous anyway.
so I would probably advocate for such a structure in your campaign world (your campaign world is coherent but which corresponds to a wizard society that is going to crumble over time is the adventurer does not go and helps the society)
Because right now it is an exam where people goes and fight for the first time a monster with a spell they got for the first time so it would probably have a 50% causality rate at the very least due to panicking people with no experience in using spells for fighting since it is literally the first time they are using that spell unless the monsters have no attacks at all(are frogs or stuff like that).
Why do you want so badly for this story to be anything other than what it is?
Your feedback isn't constructive when you persist in changing the subject. I say, "what do you think about this game?"
You say, "I would play this other game instead."
Cool story, bro? It's not the game I'm proposing and so it doesn't work. It's established session 0, so you have no room to complain that it should work. You want to run a different game, go ahead and make your own thread about your other game, I guess.
Edit: I'm not proposing a game that explores the social implications of lethal wizard exams. It's just a different ballgame.
I'm proposing, "let's play metroidvania with level 1 wizards without spellbooks so we gain spells as the power ups that unlock progress."
If your answer is, "I don't want to play metroidvania," then that's cool, I guess.
Why do you want so badly for this story to be anything other than what it is?
Your feedback isn't constructive when you persist in changing the subject. I say, "what do you think about this game?"
You say, "I would play this other game instead."
Cool story, bro? It's not the game I'm proposing and so it doesn't work. It's established session 0, so you have no room to complain that it should work. You want to run a different game, go ahead and make your own thread about your other game, I guess.
Edit: I'm not proposing a game that explores the social implications of lethal wizard exams. It's just a different ballgame.
I'm proposing, "let's play metroidvania with level 1 wizards without spellbooks so we gain spells as the power ups that unlock progress."
If your answer is, "I don't want to play metroidvania," then that's cool, I guess.
the social implications of a world where there is people who had no training in the use of spells to fight fight for the first time creatures (which would probably have a 50% causality rate with people behaving like real life people even if they were people who felt ready to do so) are too much interesting and deep for being ignored.
While if it was like a classical adventure and was just "An evil wizard wants to see how weak but crafty wizards without direct access to their own spellbook fare in a maze they made because he likes the show in his crystal ball (a little bit like the lich in order of the stick)" there would not be all the social implications an exam have and people would not feel interested as much as in that overwhelmingly traditionalist society that waste lives (which is coherent but which makes people desire to change it).
the social implications of a world where there is people who had no training in the use of spells to fight fight for the first time creatures (which would probably have a 50% causality rate with people behaving like real life people even if they were people who felt ready to do so) are too much interesting and deep for being ignored.
That isn't remotely close to the world I'm picturing, so let's parse this out a bit and see what assumptions are incorrect here.
"People have no training in the use of spells." This is definitively wrong because I explicitly said they are 1st level wizards and lack only the spellbook. They have COMPLETE training in the basic use of spells, just no advanced training for spells of higher level. What they lack is their notes that remind them how to complete the spells they know.
"Fight for the first time creatures." Why must we assume they have no combat training as a portion of their wizard schooling? Up to this point, a lot of their training has been purely academic, but I assume they've at least been sparring one another.
"Which would probably have a 50% casualty rate." Based on what, exactly? You're reading this like the exam is going to be an Overwhelming Encounter, but D&D is a game of Attrition and CR isn't static. The challenges, while at times capable of dealing Lethal Damage, aren't intended to kill the students, but to force them to apply their training while under the stress of being in real danger of physical harm. The primary point of the test, if there is one, is to verify that they won't choke when thrown into the fog of war. More likely than your strange idea that half the students will die is that most of the students that fail will be rescued by test administrators. Dying will be a tragic accident from the statistically remote scenario of jumping straight past -10 HP before the administrators can do anything. And don't bother rummaging through monster manuals to show how frequently this will happen. The WAGE would be constructed to pick only creatures that make this scenario unlikely. In fact, such creatures are present in the exam only to demonstrate that a high CR encounter requires that you Game Change the scenario. You use knowledge to exploit the monster's weaknesses and don't waste your time trying to go toe to toe with it on its own terms.
There is absolutely no reason the WAGE must have this 50% casualty rate you expect.
"With people behaving like real life people." They are not behaving like real life people. They are behaving like fantasy characters achieving the first step of their heroic career path that they have spent years of their life training for. Yes, some of them will choke in the fog of war and flunk the test. They'll be excused from the remainder of the exam by the administrators. Basically, most of the people you are counting in your assessment probably would have dropped out of Wizard School before they made it this far. Commoners would stick to farming.
While if it was like a classical adventure and was just "An evil wizard wants to see how weak but crafty wizards without direct access to their own spellbook fare in a maze they made because he likes the show in his crystal ball (a little bit like the lich in order of the stick)" there would not be all the social implications an exam have and people would not feel interested as much as in that overwhelmingly traditionalist society that waste lives (which is coherent but which makes people desire to change it).
Meh. If my cliche isn't old enough for you and you must needs use the absolute oldest trick in the book, use an evil wizard experimenting on people. I prefer to give my players some hope that winning will end in a desirable outcome. Beating an evil wizard's maze like this will likely get you killed or mind wiped the moment you "win." It's kind of taking the Metroidvania element and turning it a lot more Portal, which is fine, I guess, but it encourages players deliberately trying to break the game rather than resolving it. I mean I'm fine if the players are clever and outsmart their test, that will probably earn them some bonus points with the test administrators. But "evil wizard is experimenting on me for jollies" basically tells the player "find a way out of this before the test is over or you're dead anyway."
Seems a lot more tired and overdone in games like D&D. Maybe that's just me.
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