Let's make an awesome final battle - Angels of Death

[Specter]

I need y'all's help to improve this final encounter.

WHAT IS SET IN STONE:
4 angelic creatures against a 4-PC level-16 party.
- They will wield big weapons (like greatscythes); 2d6+2d8 from Angelic Weapons (necrotic); two attacks each.
- They will be immune to necrotic damage, and ignore fear, charm and exhaustion.
- Since these are the final bosses of the campaign, they should be tough as nails (no big deal if one or two PCs die).

This is pretty easy, but defining the rest has been a pain. Here are things to consider:

Looking at celestials, two caught my eye: Deva and Planetar.

Devas are fine (perhaps a bit weak), but they seem boring: all they do is attack once and cast lame out-of-combat spells. Planetars seem way too strong considering five of them, but they're definitely more interesting for a fight.

So how would you tune down a Planetar (or improve a Deva) so that 4 of them could take on 4 level-16 players?

I don't want these guys to just attack blindly. I would like to give them spells so that they can execute strategies and change their roles as the battle goes on.
Two things come to mind:
- Giving them the Death Cleric spell list from the DMG. That is thematic, and gives them more in-combat options.
- Assigning random Paladin/Cleric spells (that don't involve heals).

What do you think?

Two features in special catch my eye: Cunning Action and Divine Smite. Cunning Action gives them more dynamic options in battle, while Divine Smite allows them to nova and keep players on their toes.

Are these feasible for 4 enemies? What other monster/class features would be fitting here?

These are the main points I still need to consider, but other suggestions are also welcome.
Thank you.

[Unoriginal]

You dont need magic to have the angels not "just attack blindly" and be able to "execute strategies and change their roles as the battle goes on".

My question is: who are the PCs?

[Specter]

You dont need magic to have the angels not "just attack blindly" and be able to "execute strategies and change their roles as the battle goes on".

My question is: who are the PCs?

- Vengeance Paladin 16 (sword-and-board)
- Tempest Cleric 13/Eldritch Knight 3 (sword-and-board)
- Hunter 11/Thief 5 (archer)
- Lore Bard 16 (focuses on buffs and debuffs)

Point is, the fights where they face 'attacking' monsters usually drag on, and that's not the feeling I'm going for here.

[TormentedSoul]

Use Sorcerer King's Seeming Spell to set your team physical form.

[JackPhoenix]

And use Giantitp forum's report function to remove Lord Drako. Again.

[Specter]

Getting back to what matters...

Considering their strategy is to usually go for one enemy until it's dead, how would things change?

[Unoriginal]

Getting back to what matters...

Considering their strategy is to usually go for one enemy until it's dead, how would things change?

Don't let them do that.

Have the Angels disgengage and dance around, maybe give those who aren't engaged a long range capacity that makes clear they can't be ignored. Some kind of curse or aura or the like.

[UrielAwakened]

You probably want a theme. I would go with the four horsemen, and have each angel have its own suite of powers.

Also they should probably have mounts while you're at it. Each a different creature thematically tied to their suite of powers. You could skip it if you don't want the complexity.

If they're four of the same thing it's going to be a boring fight. Each one should have its own unique abilities on top of whatever normal Planeteer abilities you keep. Something like:

White Rider - Pestilence. Curses and Poison.

Red Rider - War. Fire and domination effects.

Black Rider - Famine. Necrotic and exhaustion effects.

Pale Rider - Death. Twist, radiant and other normally good-themed abilities. Divine smite would fit here.

[Unoriginal]

The White Rider is Conquest, not Pestilence.

[UrielAwakened]

It goes back and forth. 20th century texts start to use Pestilence instead.

Either way Conquest and War are pretty damn close and I don't think there's enough design room for both.

[Unoriginal]

OP, do you have an idea how many fights and rests the PCs will have before the final battle?

If we have to account for them being at full ressource and able to go nova from the get-go, we have to be careful.

Something that could be interesting would be to have the four Angels be able to transfer their own health to one of the other angels, with a Reaction or Bonus Action, as long as they have HPs.

So you could have one healing a second away from the fight, then the second one transferring that to the ones who are getting attacked.

Also, what do you think about giving the PCs allies for this fight?

[krugaan]

This may sound terrible, but video game bosses might have a lot to offer to make the fight memorable.

- when one Angel dies, the others get stronger; visual clues might be others gaining extra wings?

- the reverse: living Angels give special defenses to other angels (resistances, immunites, damage auras, bonus to saving throws, etc)

- combination of both (strong defenses while all angels are alive, but strong offence while only one is left)

- a halo which supercharges one angel while leaving the others relatively weaker

Tactics-wise:

- give each angel a debuffing aura which can be used against other angels

example: Duma, the Angel of Silence, has a 20' aura which negates all casting, including that of other angels.

Michael, the Angel of Suffering, has a 20' aura which makes creatures in it vulnerable to all damage, including other angels...

Azrael, Angel of Rebirth, has a 20' damage aura which deals damage and heals for double the amount

[Specter]

Don't let them do that.

Have the Angels disgengage and dance around, maybe give those who aren't engaged a long range capacity that makes clear they can't be ignored. Some kind of curse or aura or the like.

A long range option is a good idea, so they can be threatening at all levels. The question is, cantrip or something else? I don't see them using other weapons.


You probably want a theme. I would go with the four horsemen, and have each angel have its own suite of powers.

Also they should probably have mounts while you're at it. Each a different creature thematically tied to their suite of powers. You could skip it if you don't want the complexity.

If they're four of the same thing it's going to be a boring fight. Each one should have its own unique abilities on top of whatever normal Planeteer abilities you keep. Something like:

White Rider - Pestilence. Curses and Poison.

Red Rider - War. Fire and domination effects.

Black Rider - Famine. Necrotic and exhaustion effects.

Pale Rider - Death. Twist, radiant and other normally good-themed abilities. Divine smite would fit here.

I'm afraid that by giving each of them a theme, it would take the players too long to know who does what, and fail to adapt properly.


OP, do you have an idea how many fights and rests the PCs will have before the final battle?

If we have to account for them being at full ressource and able to go nova from the get-go, we have to be careful.

Something that could be interesting would be to have the four Angels be able to transfer their own health to one of the other angels, with a Reaction or Bonus Action, as long as they have HPs.

So you could have one healing a second away from the fight, then the second one transferring that to the ones who are getting attacked.

Also, what do you think about giving the PCs allies for this fight?

Story-wise, they're the only ones who can actually face the angels of death, since anyone else who looks at them can have their soul removed immediately.

They'll be at full resource. If they weren't, this would be a lot easier to plan.

The life transference ability is nice. It should work well as a bonus action.

__________________________________

Tuning down the Planetar stats, I got:
ST20, DE18, CO18, IN16, WI18, CH24

Original HP is 200, I'm thinking of bringing it down to 150. Thoughts?

[Unoriginal]

A long range option is a good idea, so they can be threatening at all levels. The question is, cantrip or something else? I don't see them using other weapons.

Just give them an at-will death blast or something. No need to make it a spell.

Or you could make it a necrotic aura that deals Xd6 damages to everyone within 60ft of them, as an Action.



Story-wise, they're the only ones who can actually face the angels of death, since anyone else who looks at them can have their soul removed immediately.

They'll be at full resource. If they weren't, this would be a lot easier to plan.

Fair.



The life transference ability is nice. It should work well as a bonus action.

We can work on that.




Tuning down the Planetar stats, I got:
ST20, DE18, CO18, IN16, WI18, CH24

Original HP is 200, I'm thinking of bringing it down to 150. Thoughts?

Well the important thing is to get the AC, the HPs, the to-hit bonus and the damage per round, to calculate the CR.

I would say 150 is probably not enough, but again they're 4 of them...

How much HPs has the most durable PC you have?

[GorogIrongut]

I'd be tempted to go down a slightly different path. They would each have the same abilities so as to not confuse things.

They would:
-be incredibly quick (ridiculously high dex and ground and flight speed)
-be sad and inhumanly beautiful. They've lived too long and seen too much. While they may be Angels of Death,
they're a little in love with the concept of dying, never having done so themselves. The inhuman beauty would
have two effects. Actively would be the death doom bolt mentioned by the OP. The passive ability would apply
a negative modifier to any attack made within 10' of and against the angels. This modifier would equal the angel's
charisma modifier.
-They would have low hit points (50-70ish). This would be counteracted by the fact that if any one Angel is still
alive when the initiative round moves from the bottom back to the top, all angels who have been killed are placed
within 5' of a surviving angel with all hit points restored. For each angel killed, any surviving angel's great weapon
glows a little more fiercely and it does an extra d6 damage on top of what you've already listed. Note, only angels
who are killed are magically restored to full hit points.
-For a ranged attack I see something fun like firebolts coming from their eyes The only difference I would make is
that I would treat them like Eldritch Blast (i.e. multiple bolts instead of one big one) and I would bump the damage
up to d12. So if you decide these are the equivalent of level 17, then they would get 4 x d12 fire bolts. Range 300'.

What you have is very quick, highly mobile angels who do a little more damage in close combat than they do at
range, but who keep popping back up. Your party will initially nova an angel or two only to find that they pop back
up with their feathers unruffled. Then they'll have to work out the mechanics of killing them all in the same turn.
The easiest way is to take each angel down to half hit points and then do 4 mini novas. But the angels will be used
to being unafraid of dying and so will attack unrelentingly (i.e. more prone to dying and then popping back up than
if they were trying to preserve their hit points). The fact that they pop back up next to a surviving angel means that
your party would have a way of trying to control their movement and positioning. Kill 3 of the angels so that they
reappear next to the lone surviving angel and then Meteor Swarming the lot of them (if only they were level 17...)

[UrielAwakened]

I'm afraid that by giving each of them a theme, it would take the players too long to know who does what, and fail to adapt properly.

What? No that's silly. It's the final boss they are expected by level 16 to be capable of adapting on the fly.

I'm just saying if I were a player and the final battle was "four of the same monster" I'd be highly disappointed that my DM couldn't do better than that.

[Specter]

Well the important thing is to get the AC, the HPs, the to-hit bonus and the damage per round, to calculate the CR.

I would say 150 is probably not enough, but again they're 4 of them...

How much HPs has the most durable PC you have?

AC should be 20 (full plate +2). To-hit should be +13 (5 + 6 + 2 from the weapons). Damage per round is as in the original post.

I'm not very interested in CR because it has let me down many many times, just a general idea of how it would go down.

The Paladin has 132hp, and the Bard has 147 (weird, I know).


I'd be tempted to go down a slightly different path. They would each have the same abilities so as to not confuse things.

They would:
-be incredibly quick (ridiculously high dex and ground and flight speed)
-be sad and inhumanly beautiful. They've lived too long and seen too much. While they may be Angels of Death,
they're a little in love with the concept of dying, never having done so themselves. The inhuman beauty would
have two effects. Actively would be the death doom bolt mentioned by the OP. The passive ability would apply
a negative modifier to any attack made within 10' of and against the angels. This modifier would equal the angel's
charisma modifier.
-They would have low hit points (50-70ish). This would be counteracted by the fact that if any one Angel is still
alive when the initiative round moves from the bottom back to the top, all angels who have been killed are placed
within 5' of a surviving angel with all hit points restored. For each angel killed, any surviving angel's great weapon
glows a little more fiercely and it does an extra d6 damage on top of what you've already listed. Note, only angels
who are killed are magically restored to full hit points.
-For a ranged attack I see something fun like firebolts coming from their eyes The only difference I would make is
that I would treat them like Eldritch Blast (i.e. multiple bolts instead of one big one) and I would bump the damage
up to d12. So if you decide these are the equivalent of level 17, then they would get 4 x d12 fire bolts. Range 300'.

What you have is very quick, highly mobile angels who do a little more damage in close combat than they do at
range, but who keep popping back up. Your party will initially nova an angel or two only to find that they pop back
up with their feathers unruffled. Then they'll have to work out the mechanics of killing them all in the same turn.
The easiest way is to take each angel down to half hit points and then do 4 mini novas. But the angels will be used
to being unafraid of dying and so will attack unrelentingly (i.e. more prone to dying and then popping back up than
if they were trying to preserve their hit points). The fact that they pop back up next to a surviving angel means that
your party would have a way of trying to control their movement and positioning. Kill 3 of the angels so that they
reappear next to the lone surviving angel and then Meteor Swarming the lot of them (if only they were level 17...)

This could work, but it seems... I don't know. Erratic?


What? No that's silly. It's the final boss they are expected by level 16 to be capable of adapting on the fly.

I'm just saying if I were a player and the final battle was "four of the same monster" I'd be highly disappointed that my DM couldn't do better than that.

If I were to make them different, I'd give each of them one extra feature. What would you suggest?

[UrielAwakened]

They should each have different spells or spell-like abilities, meant to attack the PCs from different angles.

Curses, Poisons, AOE Spell damage, Domination effects, Disables, Physical damage, terrain-shifting abilities, the works.

You have a unique opportunity to segment out the different vectors by which PCs can be attacked and defend themselves and have each specialize in a different one.

[GorogIrongut]

I'm not sure what you mean by erratic... You'll have to elaborate.

[Unoriginal]

I would definitively not give the Angels less than 180 HPs, and would probably put them at 200 HPs just to be sure.

[Artemicion]

This may sound terrible, but video game bosses might have a lot to offer to make the fight memorable.


I can only agree with this. I would expect you want the boss fight to be memorable, with important strategic choices and cinematic elements to keep the excitement high.

5e has two pretty good tools for that - lair and legendary actions.

How about on initiative count 20, each angel casts a buff making them all immune to one (or several) type of damage (each angel providing immunity to a different type) until the next initiative 20. I'd provide a visual cue to be able to determine which does provides immunity against what. The angel would not be able to cast the buff is disabled, stunned, restrained, charmed, etc., providing a tactical choice to be made by the PCs - which angel to disable in order to be able to damage any of them?

In the same vein, the group as a whole could have 3 legendary actions per round, with each angel having access to a different one, providing some more tactical choices for them and the group.

Finally, (it might be a little cliche), but what if the fight with the 4 angels is just "stage 1"? Once they are all dead their bodies fuse into something else, like a mega angel of death who mixes the powers of them all? Or what if their bodies were just the seal containing death itself, and when the 4 die it is freed and ready for a fight?

[UrielAwakened]

Finally, (it might be a little cliche), but what if the fight with the 4 angels is just "stage 1"? Once they are all dead their bodies fuse into something else, like a mega angel of death who mixes the powers of them all? Or what if their bodies were just the seal containing death itself, and when the 4 die it is freed and ready for a fight?

Persona 5 has something like this actually: The Trumpeter.

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Trumpeter

[Specter]

As for the individual features, this is what I came up with (attempting to mimic the party's own abilities):

INSPIRE
Same as Bardic Inspiration (d12).

DEATHBRINGER
The angel can maximize the damage dealt by a necrotic spell once.

GRIM REAPER
The angel can mark a foe with his bonus action. He has advantage on attack rolls against that creature.

CULL THE HERD
The angel has advantage against a creature who is within 5 feet of an ally.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Here's the Death Cleric's spell list I'm planning to use (slots as if 9th level cleric):

false life, ray of sickness
blindness, ray of enfeeblement
animate dead, vampiric touch
blight, death ward
antilife shell, cloudkill

So far, I'm aiming for 180HP.

[krugaan]

Finally, (it might be a little cliche), but what if the fight with the 4 angels is just "stage 1"? Once they are all dead their bodies fuse into something else, like a mega angel of death who mixes the powers of them all? Or what if their bodies were just the seal containing death itself, and when the 4 die it is freed and ready for a fight?

"This isn't even my final form!"

Been playing a lot of Dark Souls 3, recently, and honestly, they're all multi-stage bosses. There's a reason for that: tension.

[ATHATH]

In the same vein, the group as a whole could have 3 legendary actions per round, with each angel having access to a different one, providing some more tactical choices for them and the group.
I like this part- it reminds me of the final boss of FTL.

Have the angels switch from being frontliners to being backliners whenever they get too damaged (and have run out of (quick) healing).

[UrielAwakened]

So I stumbled upon the perfect artwork for the fusion of this thing at the end if that's still on the table:

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/012/095/171/large/ching-yeh-1.jpg?1533015594

[krugaan]

So I stumbled upon the perfect artwork for the fusion of this thing at the end if that's still on the table:

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/012/095/171/large/ching-yeh-1.jpg?1533015594

really reminds me of that FF3 boss right before angel Kekfa...

right down the to art style and everything.