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Laserlight
2018-07-23, 10:31 PM
Upcoming short campaign, with the players starting at L6 and probably getting to L9 or so.

The campaign premise is that they are royal agents. The mission they want: go to the neighboring aerial city, assassinate that city's duke and duchess, kidnap their daughter, and bring her back so the king can marry her.

At least one of the PCs, possibly both, will be skaven (ratmen). Mechanically, refluffed goblins. Skaven have the (well deserved) reputation of being CE alignment, so their Persuasion attempts will be at Disadvantage although they'll usually get a bonus on Intimidation.

So, with that in mind, what classes would you take?

Luccan
2018-07-23, 10:36 PM
Whatever classes make sense from your preferred Warhammer RPG edition

No, but if it's an assassination/kidnapping, I recommend Shadow Monks, Bards, and Rogues.

CTurbo
2018-07-23, 10:40 PM
Dex Cleric and Dex Paladin

Merudo
2018-07-23, 10:46 PM
A Moon Druid would be fun to play. At level 8 you can transform into a Quetzalcoatlus and your buddy can hop on your back and use you as a flying mount. Pretty dope for infiltration and/or quick escape.

MaxWilson
2018-07-23, 11:04 PM
So, with that in mind, what classes would you take?

Normally I'd say "something highly mobile, like Rogues, so you can pick your battles" but by giving the PCs Nimble Escape you've already taken care of the bulk of the problem.

So, given that the adventure (sounds more like a long adventure than a short campaign) is going to feature lots of intrigue and apparently Combat As War in an urban setting, I'm going to have to vote for classes with lots of utility. I'll say a Bardlock (Hexblade 2/Lore Bard 4+) and a Moon Druid. I really wish I could fit an Enchanter in there somewhere but I feel like sniper overwatch and skill monkeying (plus charisma skills) are more valuable at the levels play is going to actually occur at. Modify Memory doesn't even come online until level 9, and the Enchanter's signature mind-alteration doesn't come online until level 14, long after the adventure ends.

Disguise Self is going to be fairly essential, and the Warlock slots ensure the Bardlock will have plenty of casts. Disguise Kit could be useful too, but sometimes it's nice to be able to do a perfect disguise in seconds instead of a pretty good disguise in minutes or hours.

CTurbo
2018-07-23, 11:05 PM
Revised Beastmaster Ranger and a Hexblade Chainlock would be great too. You'd both have a little helper. I've actually done this exact same in a 2 man group and it was fun.

Well except I was a Fiend Tomelock that was able to have an Imp familiar via ritual while the Ranger got an Owlbear companion.

Laserlight
2018-07-23, 11:05 PM
A Moon Druid would be fun to play. At level 8 you can transform into a Quetzalcoatlus and your buddy can hop on your back and use you as a flying mount. Pretty dope for infiltration and/or quick escape.

They won't be L8 until, at best, the last third of the campaign. I do find the idea of a ratman jumping on a flying snake amusing, though; I'll have to find a way to work that in.

Corran
2018-07-24, 05:18 AM
I think at least one of them should be a spellcaster. Spells like invisibility (used with a 3rd level slot to affect both PC's), alter self (or alternatively disguise self if you have the actor feat for voice changing; the cantrip friends plays well with disguise self too; perhaps the warlock mask of many faces could be very useful in this scenario), suggestion (perhaps even coupled with the sorcerer's subtle metamagic), maybe even charm person, hypnotic pattern or silence or a hold person so that you can take people out quietly. Fly and feather fall, since we are talking about a city in the air. And when they level up, dimension door, arcane eye, scrying a bit later maybe. Generally spellcasters have the tools for out of the box solutions (that is anything else than charge in and kill whatever is moving).


Or alternatively, one of them could be a dashing swordfighter (swashbuckler?) whose backstory revolves around finding a Rakasha that ate his father when he was very young, and the other one could be of enormous strength and unusually large size who also likes to fight sportsmanlike and is good with rhymes! At the very least the kidnapping part is very well within their capabilities!

MaxWilson
2018-07-24, 09:28 AM
Or alternatively, one of them could be a dashing swordfighter (swashbuckler?) whose backstory revolves around finding a Rakasha that ate his father when he was very young, and the other one could be of enormous strength and unusually large size who also likes to fight sportsmanlike and is good with rhymes! At the very least the kidnapping part is very well within their capabilities!

This. I change my vote to this.

Laserlight
2018-07-24, 10:10 AM
At the very least the kidnapping part is very well within their capabilities!

And they're able to storm the castle, as long as they have a holocaust cloak and a wheelbarrow. :-)

Citan
2018-07-25, 02:39 PM
Upcoming short campaign, with the players starting at L6 and probably getting to L9 or so.

The campaign premise is that they are royal agents. The mission they want: go to the neighboring aerial city, assassinate that city's duke and duchess, kidnap their daughter, and bring her back so the king can marry her.

At least one of the PCs, possibly both, will be skaven (ratmen). Mechanically, refluffed goblins. Skaven have the (well deserved) reputation of being CE alignment, so their Persuasion attempts will be at Disadvantage although they'll usually get a bonus on Intimidation.

So, with that in mind, what classes would you take?
Hi!
I'd suggest Moon Druid and a Warlock/Sorcerer dual-class.

Moon Druid: takes care of...
- adventuring utility (Goodberry, Locate, carrying all equipment / serving as a mount as a horse*, etc)
- sneaking utility (Pass Without Trace, Water Breathing etc),
- scouting and spying thanks to Wild Shape (grab Observant somewhere, and find a way to learn Comprehend Languages).
In fight...
- heals much,
- hampers enemy vision or movement with a large choice of spells and Thorns Whip.
- can deal pretty nifty damage with duration spells (Flaming Sphere, Heat Metal, Call Lightning).
- can set up a Plant Growth or a Spike Growth for Warlock to use.
- can take some hits for both when needed through its shape.

Warlock / Sorcerer (only 3 levels for Subtle are needed, but 5 may be nice for Catnap and Fireball) takes care of the rest:
- social manipulation (Charisma checks, Charm Person, Suggestion, Sleep, Hypnotic Pattern, all in a very frequent rythm since recharging on a short rest) and possibly utility spells Druid don't have.
- non-Druid rituals (Tome Pact with related Invocation, or Ritual Caster: Wizard feat).
- reliable ranged damage (Eldricht Blast).
- Counterspell!!
Hexblade Patron is recommended for proficiencies at least.
The idea of Sorcerer is NOT to use the conversion cheese, simply to get Subtle and Extend spell (believe me, it's far enough powerful as is).
As for the Pact, honestly I'd ditch Blade as a personal preference, although the idea of a "Smiting" Warlock may be nice.
But Tome brings you even more versatility, allowing the two to ultimately get all interesting rituals (of course provided you, as a DM, give them chances to learn them). Including a basic Familiar to go with the Druid.
Or Chain pact means improved familiar to go with the Druid scouting.
Honestly though, the true reason why I wouldn't bother with Blade is mainly because I feel having Warlock on the front lines is neither required nor advised.
With Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar, you have largely enough synergy as is.
For Sorcerer, I'd pick Shadow or Divine Soul for optimization, or anything else than Wild Magic for fun (I love Wild Magic, but you're imo a too small party to bear the risk).
The choice of archetype would condition the second Metamagic: first is Subtle, no questions asked.
Second could be Quicken if Sorcerer is 6+ or if optimizing a few spells is not player's thing, prefering a more generalist feature, otherwise...:
- Draconic => Empowered (ensure your Fireball is as deadly as expected),
- Divine Soul => Extend (16h long Mage Armor on Druid to slightly boost his AC when Wild Shaped, upcast Aid before resting for a decent boost in HP, etc)
- Shadow => Careful, Extend or Distant depending on spell choice.
Leveling: Sorcerer 1 > Warlock 3 > whatever player wants (with an advice to aim at 5 /5 with Warlock first then see where to go from there).
If dual-class is out for whatever reason, go Warlock. Short-rest buddies should work well. ;)

As a spoiler, here are a few funny and powerful things the duo could do.

1. Low-cost Damage Amp.
Have Moon Druid cast Spike Growth, then Warlock once level 5 can deal additional 8d4 damage on its Eldricht Blast: 2d4 every 5 foot of movement, 2 rays, first ray Repelling, second ray Grasp.
Technically from what I recall you could apply Repelling (which is "unlimited" on the same ray as Grasp, but imo that would be very unreasonable to allow it as a DM. YMMV.


2. Medium-cost "parking"
Have Moon Druid cast a Plant Growth, then Warlock Repel Blasting people inside the area.
Technically, with Warlock using Expeditious Retreat, he may even manage to "move aside" enough to really herd the guys into a small area, preparing the next move from Druid (Moonbeam, Call Lightning, or even a plain Earth Tremor to completely lock them down).
Anyways, it's a nice way to limit enemy threat (they'll have to resort to ranged attacks, unless the Druid also stacks a Fog Cloud, or maybe a Shadow Sorcerer / Devil Sight's Darkness from Warlock).

3. "Inexistant men" infiltration
Druid maintains Pass Without Trace.
Warlock (ritual) cast as needed Sleep/Silence, or maybe upcast (Extend) Invisibility.
People won't ever know they were there.

4. Skill check overthrow
Skill Empowerement is on Sorcerer list but not on Warlock so best not count on it.
But Druid has Enhance Ability, and Sorcerer also has it. With the big difference being that the latter could subtle cast it.
Nice way to offset the disadvantage on persuasion checks, if for some reason a Disguise Self / Charm Person couldn't do the job.
Great way to ensure a roll is made with advantage when a simple Help won't cut it for whatever reason (basic example: official competition in some field. Another basic example: Druid wants to scout ahead alone, wants to be sure of not missing anything on the road).

5. Unpredictable ambush
If there are water accesses to some place, they could use Water Breathing to come close without getting seen (bonus point for Druid using Wild Shape + Polymorph on Warlock).
Then Warlock, *still underwater*, could use Subtle to cast a spell and see how it goes.

6. "Automatic" short rest
Buy a carriage or any kind of platform, Druid Wild Shapes as a big horse, carries Warlock resting on the platform.
Or have Warlock get Tenser's Floating Disk one way or another so he moves while Druid is resting on it.
Or have Warlock cast Catnap on both of them in a sufficiently secured place (funny thing, since it's non-concentration, by RAW you can affect yourself and get the benefits).

7. Ambush Squad
Druid upcasts Conjure Animals for 2 or 3 CR1 creatures, then Warlock upcasts Invisibility on everyone involved in the next fight.

Extremely non-exhaustive list of the greatness of that combo.
Provided you as a DM are ready to face the challenge. XD :smallbiggrin:

Plus the classes being so different in fluff and mechanics makes it easy to create the classic "too different to appreciate each other yet it happens" trope you see so often in movies. :)
Like the rustic man from the country, knowing little about ways of the human world, and the guy who knows the whole city like his back pocket and masters the different customs for different social groups.

sophontteks
2018-07-25, 02:52 PM
Lore Bard and Moon Druid

Bard
Can cover all skills with JoaT and expertise.
Full caster with great spells.
Bardic inspiration to help the druid with rolls.
Lore can get counterspell early and JoaT adds to the roll.
Amazing party face.

Druid, moon
Can tank with moon.
Full caster without overlapping bard's selection.
Guidance cantrip helps the bard and can be combined with inspiration.
Moon is strongest at low levels when risk of death is at its highest.
Strong with important wisdom skills like perception and insight.
Excellent utility with wildshape.

These two synergize very well.
The bard can roll for social checks while the druid uses insight to determine if they are lying / hiding something.
The bard has a bonus to every skill and the druid can add another 1d4 to these rolls with guidance.
They can both heal each other if one falls.
Between the two are enough utility options to solve any problem.

Raynor007
2018-07-25, 02:54 PM
The last 2 party game I was in we had a Totem Barbarian-Moon Druid muilticlass and an Assassin Rogue, and they complimented each-other wonderfully. Both could stealth, the Dire Wolf shape gave the Druid the HP to handle a fight on his own (while Rage was still going), and the Assassin could, of course, assassinate. You also gain the survival benefits of the Druid as listed above, and the infiltration benefits of the Assassin. Conceivably, you could multi-class the Assassin with a level of Fighter for the extra +2 to hit, and you've got a damn good combo. The only other thing you could really use would be Thaumaturgy, which either of them could pick up with the Magic Initiate Feat.

RedMage125
2018-07-25, 03:55 PM
My suggestion was going to be Ranger and Bard. Both are stealthy, both decent in combat (Ranger is slightly better). Bard has Arcane spells, but can also act as healer. That way, you could have all your basic bases covered (tank, skillmonkey, arcane caster and healer).

However, I do think Moon Druid could be a great choice as well. Especially since while Wild Shaped, he could be mistaken as the Ranger's Animal Companion (even if he isn't actually a Beastmaster).

Laserlight
2018-07-25, 04:00 PM
Hi!
I'd suggest Moon Druid and a Warlock/Sorcerer dual-class.
Plus the classes being so different in fluff and mechanics makes it easy to create the classic "too different to appreciate each other yet it happens" trope you see so often in movies. :)
Like the rustic man from the country, knowing little about ways of the human world, and the guy who knows the whole city like his back pocket and masters the different customs for different social groups.

Amusingly, in the last campaign, these two players were the aristocrat/vigilante archer who wanted to clean up his town, and the moon druid who wasn't familiar with civilized customs and preferred to stay that way. This post has enough to it that I'll just forward it to them and see what they say. Kudos!