Off label skill use

[MrStabby]

Skills have an attribute attached to them - for example athletics has strength, arcana has intelligence and so on. This is a set of example of skill/tool use that I have allowed that use atypical matchings of skills and attributes.

One problem I have had with the skills system in 5th edition is that there are too many skills and so many of them are just not as useful as others. As a side project I am eliminating some skills where I feel there is overlap, so some entries here may seem like they are appropriately covered by other skills (everyone also starts with one fewer skill). There didn't seem to be much point in skills that were so niche that no one cared about them - better that I bundle them up into other skills (and using different attributes helps that).

Anyway, this gives everyone a chance to say how I am screwing up the game, driving imbalance and generally ruining everything.:smallwink:

Nature / Wisdom - ability to track a creature through a natural environment (eliminating survival skill)
Nature / Str or Dex - ability to hunt enough food to survive in a natural environment
Perception / Int - ability to avoid the surprised condition when ambush is sprung from behind an illusion
Athletics / Dex - ability to avoid a grapple (joining acrobatics and athletics into one skill)
Medicine / Int - understand the severity of wounds or poison that a creature has sustained
Athletics / Con - check for ability to avoid exhaustion after a long chase fight
(Nature, Arcana or Religion)/ any stat - replace a save where familiarity with the type of threat should help (used on homebrew monsters mainly (most commonly charm effects)), designed to not conflict with advantage
History/Wis - alternate skill check to recognise a hidden pit trap from acquaintance of ancient architecture
Thieves tools / str - using a crowbar to open a safe
Thieves tools / Int - replacing proficiency with forgery kit
Deception / Dex - replacing sleight of hand skill
Arcana / Wisdom - identify "animated armour" and avoid being surprised

No doubt there are more to come.

[Unoriginal]

Skills don't work like this in 5e.


You don't make skill checks, you make ability checks, and then you add the relevant proficiency if you have it.

And the game is clear the DM can say you add skill proficiencies to other attributes than what is suggested, if they think it's relevant.

So, if you decide that a WIS check made to track a creature through a natural environment can add the Nature proficiency, you can. I just don't see any reason to remove Survival from the game, though.

[MrStabby]

Skills don't work like this in 5e.


You don't make skill checks, you make ability checks, and then you add the relevant proficiency if you have it.

And the game is clear the DM can say you add skill proficiencies to other attributes than what is suggested, if they think it's relevant.

So, if you decide that a WIS check made to track a creature through a natural environment can add the Nature proficiency, you can. I just don't see any reason to remove Survival from the game, though.

Yes... this is the entire POINT of the whole thing.

[Unoriginal]

Yes... this is the entire POINT of the whole thing.

It might end up at the same point, but the path is different. You don't roll a Nature check with Wisdom, you roll a Wisdom check, and you add Nature if you have it.

The difference is crucial, because EVERYONE would roll a WIS check if they attempted that, even if they have no proficiency in Nature.


But as I said, I don't see how the skills you're talking about are both too narrow in use to the point of getting ignored, yet also overlapping with others. So my only advice is: do what you think is the best for your game, you don't need GitP people's input if you're already satisfied with your houserule.

[ciarannihill]

I would argue that this is strictly worse than RAW, because you're attempting to do something RAW legal but demolishing existing options for the sake of it...

You've decided that corner case overlap is grounds for consolidation of skills, but you're not replacing fundamental core aspects of them... How would you determine someone doing a dive-roll with proper timing through a narrow passage with moving walls blocking it at regular intervals? Normally this type of scenario would be an Acrobatics check -- the lithe and coordinated use of one's body. Athletics is a representation of efficient use of physical strength. These are not the same thing. And if you ruled that one could use Athletics for that purpose anyway, that's fine but that's merely an expansion of options, removing the former is only to the detriment of your players.

Same with Nature and Survival - Nature is about knowledge about the natural world, plants, animals, etc. Survival involves tracking, trap making, stellar navigation etc. If you consolidate these two you may as well consolidate Medicine into Nature as well, since many magical potions are made form herbal components. It's as related.


And for the record, these are all things that you can justify as exceptions RAW anyway! They use the example of allowing you to add your Intimidation bonus to a Strength roll in the event you're attempting to use your raw physical might to intimidate rather than making a threat. Codifying them and removing other skills is limiting yourself and your players' ability to come up with interesting ways of using their attributes and skills.


EDIT: and for the record, some of these just make zero sense -- Wisdom wouldn't govern familiarity with ancient architecture - Intelligence would, it's a scholarship check. Thieves' Tools checks are about picking locks without damaging the lock or container -- breaking them open with a crowbar is a fine solution but it would be an Athletics check most likely, it certainly wouldn't have anything to do with Thieves' Tools. Sleight of Hand is not always about deceiving, and making a new skill with such a narrow purpose seems counter-intuitive. If you only ever use Deception with Dexterity for Sleight of Hand, then what's the point of it? Not to mention if you wanted to consolidate Sleight of Hand into anything it'd make a lot more sense if you combined it with Stealth.

EDIT2: Phrasing/Typos.